We, The People...

[MineralMan]

I guess I'm an old collectivist at heart. I take the "We, the people" line to heart. I live in the United States of America. "We" means the entirety of the society to me. If you're here, you're part of the "we."

"We" all have responsibilities and rights. "We" are the society, since the society defines the word.

So, as a collectivist, I have to support providing services to the entire society, and that includes the curmudgeon who refuses to contribute to the collective pot. It includes the individuals who cannot, for whatever reason, contribute to the collective pot. Of course, it also includes all of those who can and do contribute. It even includes the stranger who has arrived, unwanted, and unbidden. It includes the smelly, the stupid, the recalcitrant, the rich, and the one in abject poverty.

When the need is present, the issue is not the character or means of the one in need. The issue is the character of the society. If we provide a service to one(s) in need, we benefit the entire society. If we do not, the collectivism of that society begins to break down. If we discriminate on the basis of race, religion, political belief, or any other factor, including a refusal to contribute to the collective, we lose part of the "we."

So, if I see a person on the ground, writhing in pain or unconscious, I must render aid. So must the society. It is not a matter of the means or attitudes or the race or the gender, or of any other factor. The need exists and I and the collective society MUST render aid. If my neighbor's house is on fire, I and the collective society must attack the fire and try to extinguish it. There is no option. If we do not, then the society is broken and there is no "we." It cannot matter that the house is owned by someone I don't like. It cannot matter that I know, and dislike, the person who is down. The need should override all of those factors. It must, or we fail as a society.

Since every member of the "we" is human, there will always be those who refuse to take part in society. However, we MUST serve those members, too, if we claim to be a society at all. We must. If we do not, then the society is broken and must be repaired.

I'm a pragmatic collectivist, and understand that society is not perfect. I know that the person next to me in the supermarket may not share my beliefs, goals, or much of anything else, but if I am to be true to my beliefs, I MUST aid that person in a time of need, as far as I am able. It is an imperative. The further we get away from that ideal, the more trouble the "we" is in. The more we follow it, the better "we" are at being human beings.

We will not realize perfection. That is impossible. But, we must continue to seek it, even if it means doing so incrementally. Each of us. We cannot slack off because one or another or a group of us fail to do so. We must continue to work toward improvement. We cannot get to the perfect state, but we can constantly try to improve the "we."

We, the people.

[TwilightGardener]

1. This is the truth. Glad to rec this.

[MineralMan]

2. Thank you!

[Spazito]

3. Well said, Mineral Man...

"When the need is present, the issue is not the character or means of the one in need. The issue is the character of the society. If we provide a service to one(s) in need, we benefit the entire society. If we do not, the collectivism of that society begins to break down. If we discriminate on the basis of race, religion, political belief, or any other factor, including a refusal to contribute to the collective, we lose part of the "we.""

Recommended.

[MineralMan]

4. Thanks for your kind words.

[emilyg]

5. k/r

[joeybee12]

6. Yeah, it means government is for the common good...seems quaint, doesn't it..

the true intent of our founding fathers compared to the clusterfuck of idiots running or trying to run this country. Common good? Hah!

[MineralMan]

8. Yah, it's all written down in our founding documents. Pretty

easy stuff to understand. Now, the founders had some screwy ideas about who was worthy of "the common welfare," but we've clarified that over the years, somewhat. Sometimes, though, we forget what we started. Too often, I think.

[joeybee12]

13. "In order to form a more perfect union"...in other words, things change...

the consitution is the easiest document to undertsnad, but also the easiest to exploit.

[JNelson6563]

7. "We the people...."

Amen Mineral Man! Well said. :toast:

Julie

[Beetwasher]

9. Sort Of Like "Promoting The General Welfare", I Like That Idea!

We should put it in an official document or soemthing! :evilgrin:

[MineralMan]

10. We should remember that document, actually.

That's where we're going wrong. Not the document that the teabaggers think it is, but the actual document and its general intent.

Thanks!

[DevonRex]

11. Very well said. K&R nt

[HughMoran]

12. I'm with you on this.

Well said. :thumbsup:

[Kahuna]

14. +1000

:yourock:

[annabanana]

15. Thank you for this MineralMan.

It used to go without saying. If WE are a good people than the collective WE must be compassionate.

I shake my head sadly that this most basic of social contracts seems to be breaking down.

[MineralMan]

16. Thanks to you, and to everyone in the thread.

You're right, we have forgotten the basics in many ways. The Enlightenment and the socialistic aspects of Christianity were the basics. We appear to have lost some of that in our quest for something I cannot even identify. It's very, very sad. I hope we can recover those ideals at some point. At 65, I have little hope that it will come in my lifetime, though.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. Geez, I'd like to use this as a mission statement, Mineral Man...

:applause:

And THANK YOU...thank you for recognizing and so eloquently expressing the value of "we"...the necessity of "we."

:hug:

[Uncle Joe]

18. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, MineralMan.:thumbsup:

[leftstreet]

19. No, it does not include the rich

The ill gotten gains of the Ruling Class are on the backs of the serfs.

I'm tired of the wealthy 'collecting' from the rest of us


Other than that, great post.
K&R

[MineralMan]

28. It does include the rich too. They are seldom in need of help.

But, a rich person can fall into some kinds of trouble, and it is still everyone's responsibility to help them back on their feet. If I saw a rich man taken suddenly ill, I'd offer the same help I'd offer anyone else.

[grantcart]

20. Yes we are!

[Hekate]

21. When I was a young thing my mom used to preach ethics and the Social Contract to me

The rise of the RW Repubs has breached a hole in the Social Contract you could flood New Orleans through. And they preach something they call "morality."

That's only slightly tangential to your OP -- the connection (and it's a deep one) is that we collectively need each other to make this thing work. We need to be able to trust *most* of our fellow citizens to do the right thing, knowing that there will always be a *few* jerks/criminals/solipsistic folks who won't play along.

Kick and Rec with a complete endorsement of your OP. You said what I believe, and eloquently.

Hekate

[Duer 157099]

22. I agree. But don't forget...

"We The People" originally meant "white male land-owners."

[MineralMan]

29. Yes. I addressed that. Our sensibilities have improved, at least in

some respects, over the past couple of centuries. That is the genius of our Constitution. We have changed it to make the document more inclusive as we have grown.

[flamingdem]

23. Collective Intelligence and Quaker Practice

http://www.co-intelligence.org/P-QuakerCI.html



The assumption is that God is present in the decision-making group and is equally accessible by every member of the group ("that of God in everyone", "the Inner Light"). The group seeks unity by seeking a decision ("sense of the meeting") which is consistent with the promptings of this Light. The unity is a unity of the heart as well as the head, and is not necessarily unanimity. Friends try to allow the Spirit to work among them and lead them to a wise decision. The group becomes wiser than the individual because it partakes of the wisdom of all its members, empowered by the Spirit.

-- Barbara Rose Caldwell http://friendscouncil.org/web/Literature/LitontheWeb/DecisionMaking.html





by Leonard Joy <[e-mail]>



The ways in which society generally provides for collective discernment and decision making are ill designed to tap our collective intelligence and do much to explain our collective inability to discern and pursue the common good. The fact that adversarial debate is likely to fail to respect all needs and legitimate interests-and, at best, provides for compromise-is fairly readily grasped. Where not all voices are equally heard, the neglect of some concerns may be acute. And where there is no mutual caring between parts and whole there is pathology, even death.

But even when it is understood that inclusion, equal voice, and non-adversarial discourse is desirable, this understanding by itself proves inadequate to tapping the wisdom of the whole. Of recent years, considerable attention has been paid to the management of meetings and a number of different approaches to collective decision making are now available. These variously emphasize fostering creativity (brainstorming), educing the full range of participants' stories and perspectives, facilitation that captures and builds upon the various contributions, nurturing a culture of respectful, attentive listening, avoidance of negativity and fault finding, structuring a process from brainstorming to analysis to elimination, and so on. Thus, we have "open space," "world café," "appreciative inquiry," "integral public practice," "dialogue," "goldfish bowl," and a host of patented techniques and checklists for running effective meetings. Fetzer's report Centered on the Edge, which explores the essential conditions for tapping into collective wisdom, notably draws little on these. Neither does its conclusions suggest that any of them would be found to meet all necessary conditions in which collective wisdom is arrived at. Indeed, the report could be read to suggest that these conditions still elude us.

Such a conclusion would, I believe, be unduly pessimistic. I have many experiences of sustained decision making in which, in my judgement, collective wisdom prevailed . I shall now examine the practice that supported this and consider whether its preconditions have general application. The practice in question is the Quaker practice of decision making. The fact that it is approached as "a meeting for worship for business," in particular, raises the question of its more general applicability. Let me anticipate and say that, approached as a meeting for discerning the common good, the practice stands up well in secular contexts.

The appended extracts from a Quaker Faith and Practice describe the practice. They also describe its mystical roots-the belief that "there is that of God in everyone," and that this can be experienced so that discourse can be "Spirit-led." This may be seen as, at best, an esoteric practice out of reach of, hardly to be seriously considered for adoption by, people generally. I would argue that it is too easy to be distracted by words and that the spirit of what Quakers do is eminently accessible to all. The challenge lies in leading those whose daily habit of mind and state of values development is not of the Quaker disposition and their habitual meeting behaviors not those that they need to manifest if they are to participate in the discernment of collective wisdom. Here the connection between individual and collective transformation, and the role of leadership, becomes apparent.

The essentials of Quaker practice, translated where necessary into secular terms, are as follows (no special order):

1. grounding of all participants in the desire for the common good

READ MORE AT THE LINK

[The Uncola]

24. Thank you MM,

You have a good heart.

[Irishonly]

25. K&R

Thank you.

[firedupdem]

26. Great OP...K&R!

[Zax2me]

27. NICE. Rec'd. EOM

[MineralMan]

31. Thank you to everyone who has supported this OP. It's good to know

that there are so many who understand the true nature of what we are supposed to be doing. It's very difficult, sometimes, to see that in practice as we duke it out during campaign season. It's very important not to let go of the idea that we are a society and that we desperately need to act in ways that support that, rather than diminish it.

We'll never reach perfection, but progress toward it has to be our goal. In many ways, demanding more than is possible to do at any given time tends to slow that progress, I believe. If we look a the history of just the 20th century, the progress is clear. It goes in fits and starts, but in the right direction, overall.

Anyhow, thanks for listening.

[eggplant]

30. Right on.

There is no halfway with this. Either you are in it for yourself or you are in it for the good of all.

[USArmyParatrooper]

32. Well Said MM! K&R

[proteus_lives]

33. K/R!

[Moonbat2]

34. pure nonsense

If you are sitting down to dinner with your family and someone breaks into your home do you say, well I guess you are a member of the household now so pull up a chair and after we eat I'll show you to your new room?

[annabanana]

35. depends on how hungry..

I would not turn away a starving man

[MineralMan]

36. Now you're just being silly. If a person breaks into my home, he is

not the one in need of help. My family is. I am. I will help myself and my family quite smartly.

Please don't make arguments that you cannot defend. Nowhere in my OP did I say that a person cannot defend him or herself. That's just as much a right as helping people in need is a responsibility. You're way, way off with this argument. Good luck to you.

[Hekate]

39. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay. :hi:

Hekate

[cliffordu]

37. K&R

Fookin' excellent OP.

:applause:

[Tarheel_Dem]

38. K&R. (nt)

[PAMod]

40. "pragmatic collectivist" I like that. eom

[Populist_Prole]

41. K&R

[Hekate]

42. A little kick, a little nudge back to the top, for an excellent post.

Here's to the Social Contract! :toast:

[Klukie]

43. I am too late to recommend but it gets a kick from me!!

Exactly right!!!