Can you name any public figure who has been more destructive

[Raven]

to this country than Dick Cheney? Anybody who even comes close to being wrong on almost everything? I can't come up with anybody who even comes close. Help me out, there must be somebody else.

[Drum]

1. Chalabi? McCarthy? Gonzoles! Rove! nt

[maine_raptor]

2. Jefferson Davis springs to mind

Or maybe even Joe McCarthy.

But those two are pikers compared to Deadeye Dick.

[Clark2008]

5. Jefferson Davis? Hardly.

I suggest you do more reading on him. He's not as bad as you think. Certainly no where NEAR as bad as this cabal.

Davis actually had a sense of duty - and didn't use the office to get rich. You may not agree with the duty (neither do I), but he wasn't malicious in his intent, even if he was a bit wrong-headed on the issue.

[maine_raptor]

6. Davis was not as bad as Dick in that regard (sense of duty), but

as President of the Confederacy, he was the leader of the rebellion against the United States. At least Davis was more honest and open about his subversion of the Constitution than Cheney is about his.

[frogcycle]

9. seceding

or, rather, attempting to, really was not anywhere NEAR the seditious behavior of cheney. Whether it was acceptable or not for a group of states to decide, less than 100 years after having joined the Union, that it was a mistake and they preferred to form their OWN union because the central government they had agreed was a good thing had turned out to be, in their view, meddlesome and overbearing is subject to debate. But at least the merits can be debated. South Carolina had existed as a governmental entity, albeit under colonial rule from England, for over 100 years before it agreed to join with others in kicking out the brits, and then establishing a central government that supposedly preserved a level of local government. To the people at the time in the states that formed the Confederacy, that central government had run amok, and they decided it had been a mistake. I disagree strongly with their position on the issue that caused the schism, and am glad secession failed. But they didn't come CLOSE to the efforts to simply scrap the entire Constitution that this cabal is trying.

[maine_raptor]

12. Hmm, "scrap the Constitution"

Isn't that, in a way, the central argument of the Secessionist Movement? Seems to me that by pulling out of the Union, they were in essence "scrapping" that document.

Like I said, Davis was more honest and open about it than Cheney

[frogcycle]

14. not at all

they just said we don't want to play with you any more. You can continue business as usual. This crowd is trying to scrap it for all.

And frankly, since joining the union is something a state does voluntarily, why can't they voluntarily leave? Is the US a cult? Once you're in you can't leave? Why can't, say, California, decide it wants to be independent? I am not promoting that, don't think it would be good if we had a revolving door and were constantly adjusting the number of stars in the flag down and up. But where exactly is it proscribed?

As to the biggest reason frequently offered - defense - the federal government has pretty much screwed the pooch on that. The military is using so much of the National Guard that it really is more like a NATO alliance of state militias than a central defense. And it is making judgments that most governors, many state legislature, disagree with strongly. Maybe it IS time for the states to assert themselves again.

[genie_weenie]

7. I think you mean Lincoln not Davis. n/t

[maine_raptor]

10. Lincoln only as the Law of Unindented Consequences.

Lincoln used Unconstitutional means, yes, but not in a destructive way. He used those means reluctantly and sparingly. It would be very interesting to hear his views on what Bush, Cheney, and et. al. have done re: The Constitution.

I'm willing to bet that it would surprise to a lot of folks here at DU and mortify our Republican "friends".

[JVS]

34. yuck. we have confederate apologists on DU. how disgusting

:puke:

[Tesla]

3. Oh he's was right when he had his meeting with the boss

at Haliburton!

Only ones comes close are in this administration!

[sheerjoy]

4. Only his bosses

Bush and Hitler.

[XanaDUer]

8. Fallwell.

nt.

[Hamlette]

13. I agree with Falwell and Robertson, that whole crowd that turned it into "a christian nation"

which allowed unprincipled people like bush to say "I believe" and get elected and loot our country.

[stevedeshazer]

11. No, but his buddy Rumsfeld comes close.

[EFerrari]

20. Twins separated at birth.

:scared:

[Zenlitened]

15. New Gingrich. His vision for our country is just poison.

When it comes time for historians to list the people who sent America careening off-course at the end of the 20th century, Gingrich's name will definitely be featured prominently.

He's trying to sell a kind of "Newt 2.0" these days. But that man is just vile, and a danger to the decidedly progressive ideals on which our nation was founded.

:puke:

[Cerridwen]

16. falwell, ralph reed, pat robertson

bill kristol, paul wyreich, richard viguerie, reagan, coors, scaife, phyllis schlafly, ken starr, gingrich for starters; some are more public than others.

The ones behind the scenes are the most dangerous.

[opihimoimoi]

18. Excellent list,,,,,

[Cerridwen]

22. Thanks.

We sometimes forget those behind the curtain. Those are the ones who are frequently the most dangerous. cheney, for example, got his start behind the curtain. By the time we knew his name and sneer, he'd already created and contributed to so much "evil".

[opihimoimoi]

24. Apperently, its worse enough for some of the peeps out there to wake up

Nov 7 2006 was an indication...

Them PUBs want to remain in power so bad...they are blinded as to what they do...making it worse.

[Cerridwen]

25. I have a Biblical passage running through my head...

If the repubs followers ever have the "scales" fall from their eyes, the repubs are in deep doo-doo. Not sure if that's how the Biblical passage was intended to read, but still...

[frogcycle]

28. it says that in the bible?!?

in deep doo-doo?

I did not know that!

[Cerridwen]

31. LOL

Well, my translation may need a little work.

:evilgrin:

[LynnTheDem]

17. george w. bUsh

[Rosemary2205]

19. Pat Robertson reaches more people and has more air time.

But Cheney has the keys to the bombs so...........

[EFerrari]

21. You got me. I can't think of anyone. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

23. Rupert Murdoch

To my country as well. Without him, people like Thatcher and Bush would have found it much harder to get and retain power.

[Blue_Tires]

27. +1

and I'll add my own nominee of J. Edgar Hoover

[RandomKoolzip]

26. James Jesus Angleton

[Madspirit]

29. McCarthy....n/t

[frogcycle]

30. arguably, LBJ

depends which conspiracy theory one subscribes to.

but IF he was complicit in the assassination, then add ratcheting up VN...

yeah, he's a not-too-distant second. He forced through some social programs, voting rights act, etc. as a cover for what he was really up to. But as he said, the Democrats will lose the South for a generation... well, one could say that gave rise to Nixon, Reagan, Bush... and the whole religious right turning republican phenomenon...

[Edweird]

32. W.

[nam78_two]

33. Barring Henry Kissinger no.nt

[treestar]

35. No, I think you got it

Cheney has been in Washington since the 70s, with the same goal of gaining as much power for the executive branch as possible. He is an unrepentant authoritarian who will do whatever it takes to get rid of those pesky other branches and the people being self governing.