It's a bad policy, but the man was still foolish (the Tennessee pay per fire service)

[bluestateguy]

One can criticize the policy of a subscription service fire department while also criticizing the man's poor judgment in not paying the $75 fee. You don't mess with the safety of your home and family. If exceptions are made, then here comes the slippery slope: diminishing numbers of citizens will pay the fee and the fire department will be de-funded out of existence.

Pay the fee, and then fight to have the policy changed by the County Commission, preferably through a universal property tax.

[JuniperLea]

1. Oh for fuck's sake...

This is about compassion, not money.

Jesus God...

[mediaman007]

2. Republicans have made everything about money!

You don't think anyone goes to bed with Senator Vitter out of compassion!

[davidinalameda]

5. maybe pity

but not compassion

:shrug:

[JuniperLea]

8. Seems a lot of DUers are doing the same...

Where is the compassion for human beings? For pets?

:cry:

Where the fuck am I? This is NOT DU!!!

[mediaman007]

17. Compassion is a snapshot! With more information people

can make an intelligent decision. I believe the home owner said that 3 to 4 other structures have been allowed to burn in that county. The previous fire chief would have put out the fire. He got canned. Welcome to a Teabagger's America. Sooner or later the fire department will have six white horses, a wagon and a dalmatian.

[Pithlet]

11. You don't think we can feel compassion for the man

But also compassion for the city who's fire company is being bled dry by this county who refuses to pay for them?

[JuniperLea]

15. That's about money...

Pretty vile to worry about money when someone's home and pets are being burned to a crisp. Seriously vile, and disgusting to put money before an animal, let alone someone's home.

Fuck the money. Fuck the lack of compassion around here!

[Abq_Sarah]

19. Money IS an issue

To the best of my knowledge, there is no fire department fairy that provides equipment and training to open fire stations.

[JuniperLea]

29. Compassion first... details later...

I'm disgusted that so many here would put money over compassion... that's so fucking inhumane it makes my eyes bleed!!!

[JuniperLea]

30. Compassion first... details later...

I'm disgusted that so many here would put money over compassion... that's so fucking inhumane it makes my eyes bleed!!!

[sabrina 1]

41. There are volunteer FDs around the country. My SO belongs

to one. They get donations, run bake sales, chicken barbeques, ticket sales and do other things to bring money in. Most people donate when they are asked, those who can't still have their fires put out.

Every event run by the FD to raise funds, is mobbed because people love their FD and know these guys are working for them.

But if they ever refused to put out a fire because someone had not donated, they would be in big trouble, their whole image would be destroyed, and whoever the Fire Chief was would be gone. The wealthiest people donate a lot, and others give what they can afford. Others join the Dept. and donate their time and effort.

This 'system' seems very questionable to me. Who is in charge of the money and has there been any accountability for it? The whole thing sounds like a protection racket to me.

[Pithlet]

25. The fire department will go bankrupt. The city will lose it.

So why is it vile to worry about money again?

[emilyg]

28. Amen - I was

taught to always err on the side of kindness.

[DonCoquixote]

32. oMG

We actually agree on something, mark the calendar!

[emilyg]

33. I just did. LOL

[davidinalameda]

3. you're correct

$75 isn't that much to pay

[hedgehog]

4. It occurs to me that this is a situation similar to getting flood insurance -

everybody is eager to sign up - after the rain starts to fall!

[TheDebbieDee]

6. They should have put out the fire first, then sent him a bill!

But instead, those a$$holes show up, watch the subscription-paying neighbor's house catches fire, then do their job of putting out the fire!

[louis-t]

20. I agree with that except.....

No one would pay the bill until their house burned. What a messed up situation.

[Beaverhausen]

7. what's foolish is a bunch of firefighters watching a house burn down with pets inside

and doing nothing about it. It's fucked up beyond belief. All for a lousy $75. Fucked up.

[JuniperLea]

12. Exactly...

This isn't about money, it's about compassion. Clearly DU is lacking it today. WTF? Foolish, and heinous, and vile, and disgusting to allow that to happen.

[Beaverhausen]

18. Seriously. As others have said, put out the fire and get the money later

it's not like the homeowner wasn't offering to pay

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. wow

[rocktivity]

10. Counties should not mess with the safety of their cities and citizens

They should have collected a fire or extra property tax and paid the cities for fire services with that. The solution to this situation is absurdly simple. If the fee is required, and the alternative is having your home--or YOU--burn up, the fee should be properly treated and administered as a tax.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[elleng]

23. Right. VERY bad 'policy.'

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. People do foolish things all the time.

They should be helped anyhow. If somebody walks into the street without looking both ways and gets hit by a car, should they just be left there to die because they were careless, or should they get medical treatment? Social services exist, and should exist, in part because we know people constantly do careless, negligent, foolish things and get hurt as a result. But even so, you get help, no questions asked. Maybe later your insurance company comes after your ass on a subrogation claim because you were an idiot, but you get the help you need -- ambulance, firefighters, whatever -- in the first instance. Any other approach is uncivilized.

[Dappleganger]

14. I don't care if the man was an idiot and belong to the fucking KKK

nobody deserves to have their house burned down while the fire department stands and watches.

[Zen Democrat]

16. Any sense of community is over when citizens must buy insurance from the fire department.

Paying common taxes for fire fighters is the only way to have a hope of a fair and just society. Anything else is a protection scheme.

[Abq_Sarah]

24. The citizens wanted it that way

For 20 years, they elected people who would not levy a tax for fire protection.

This may well be a wakeup call for the county voters.

[depakid]

40. And what will you bet that they'll not only STILL want it that way- but that this will spread

to similar areas.

[elleng]

21. He intended to pay it; not doing so was a MISTAKE.

And the firefighters refused his offer to pay it the next day.

[Taverner]

22. This is Capitalism

If you subscribe to capitalism, that all services are bought and sold - then this is the eventual outcome.

[Abq_Sarah]

27. Bullshit

If it were capitalism, a private company would have moved into the county and set up a fire station and charged people a monthly, quarterly or yearly rate for service. If someone called and wanted service for a fire, the company would have fought that fire and then charged the homeowner.

This is the result of people who didn't want to pay for basic services. If you don't want to fund a county sheriff, you're not going to have a law enforcement presence. If you don't want to fund firefighters, you're not going to have anyone to put fires out.

[Taverner]

42. Look - I understand the moral factor here

But Capitalism is, by nature, devoid of all morality

[moondust]

37. Ayn Randian capitalism. n/t

[Taverner]

38. Yup

Galtistan

You try getting Galtistan up without some "socialism"

[Canuckistanian]

26. Unrec.

If you don't see the bigger picture here, you're fucked in the head.

[Rex]

31. My only gripe is that they didn't put the fire out after showing up.

[AnnieBW]

34. If the guy must pay fire protection money

PUT OUT THE DAMN FIRE FIRST, THEN BILL HIM!

[Nite Owl]

35. It's a bad policy and

it is totally immoral to stand and let a family's house and pets burn down. There are no if ands or buts about it.

[DonCoquixote]

36. OK, let's assume every one of the following:

Warning, censored profanity and blunt language added to make a point.

Let's make some assumptions.

Assumption one: This guy was a right wing a**hole that never thought he would be in this predicament.

Assumption two: That this rural area is, like many others, one that preys upon a city to avoid a county tax, in other words, the city was made of right-wing a**holes.

Assumption three: that said fire department was a bunch of innocent civil servants bound by rules not to save lives, and that they were not a bunch of a**holes who just sat there and thought "Ya should paid yer 75 bucks beforehand, a**hole!"

OK, let's make these assumptions, let's say each and every one is true. That does not change the fact that what those who support this action have done is make a burnt offering of this man's house just to make a point. Yes, the right wing would do it in a heartbeat, but that does not excuse us. If we think that we have a right to be a**sholes because other people are a**holes, then frankly, not only do we flush down every bit of our morals, but we have allowed other people to turn us into a**holes, which makes us pathetic.

Again, it's one thing to wish our democrats fought harder, and stopped acting like they were having the GOp over for tea, but this is about PEOPLE.

And let's simply ugnore the fact that this is lousy PR, especially when we wind up agreeing with Glenn Beck. No wonder there is a damn Tea party.

[sweetapogee]

39. another perspective

I have a slightly different take on this matter. I'm involved in a volunteer fire company and as such know a few things. One of the big problems with structure fires is that the working conditions are dangerous. For that reason, a firefighter, even one that is volunteer labor has insurance policies such as workmans comp and disability. I was hurt at a fire and was actually paid my regular (non firefighting job) wages until I returned to work. I also had all of my medical paid for and two years of PT. I have about half a million dollars worth of life insurance if I die on a fire call. As volunteers, we have to pay out of our own pockets a nominal annual dues to put us on the disability and workmans comp policy.

So my point is by law in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania at least, every firefighter and fire company first responder and fire police volly or paid must carry insurance. There is no exception to this law, if you disregard this then the Chief will be hauled into court of inquiry and the fire company risks a lawsuit. In order to be covered, if I respond out of town, then the town that I respond to must have a legal contract called a Mutual Aid agreement. This agreement allows the insurance to cover me out of town.

The township where this sad thing happened did not have any kind of legal agreement with the fire company in the city. The township has refused to work out a plan with the city fire department. So, the only other posssible way for firefighters in the city to be covered by the city insurance in this township is for the individual homeowners to have an ageement with the fire dept. This is one of the cost items that the $75.00 is for, to cover the firemen workmsn comp insurance

I'm certain that if there was intrapment then the fire department would have commenced a search. There was no intrapment so the only thing they the firefighters could have accomplished would have been saving a few momentos. Also, the sucessful rescue of pets in rural fire districts is very rare. This is a sad reality of life. I would not think twice about searching for a human in a heavy fire condition but would not do the same for a pet and certainly not in a home without having insurance on me.

The real idiot in this scenerio, if you want to blame someone other than the homeowner, is the comittee persons running the township this burned out family lived in. They should have either inacted a fire tax and then paid for full fire coverage out of budget money to pay a fire department for complete fire service in the township.

I also run as a volly EMT and that Ambulance sells subscriptions. The money is used to buy things needed and if your insurance doesn't cover all or even any ambulance costs, the ambulance pays it. Cost is $50.00 per year.