'Whoosh' sound of wind turbines too loud for some

[Francesca9]

Source: NY Times

Like nearly all of the residents on this island in Penobscot Bay, Art Lindgren and his wife, Cheryl, celebrated the arrival of three giant wind turbines late last year. That was before they were turned on.

“In the first 10 minutes, our jaws dropped to the ground,” Mr. Lindgren said. “Nobody in the area could believe it. They were so loud.”

Now, the Lindgrens, along with a dozen or so neighbors living less than a mile from the $15 million wind facility here, say the industrial whoosh-and-whoop of the 123-foot blades is making life in this otherwise tranquil corner of the island unbearable.

They are among a small but growing number of families and homeowners across the country who say they have learned the hard way that wind power — a clean alternative to electricity from fossil fuels — is not without emissions of its own.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39525429/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

---

Whoosh?

[Chulanowa]

1. Nimby dumbasses n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. Not Nimby. Banana.

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything.

[blondeatlast]

21. LOL! nt

[madokie]

47. Spot on

[Pavulon]

2. Reactor down the road is very quiet and runs when there is no wind..

900mw all the time, in any weather.

[krispos42]

5. And radioactive waste is also extremely quiet.

Rearrainging DNA can be done silently.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. Silently rearranging DNA -- just like Blue Star Acid

--d!

[Pavulon]

12. Coal or Nuclear are required for base load generation.

you have that choice. 2000mw wind farms would be huge, 2000mw reactors cover a 50 acre complex.

Navy has 5300 reactor years of safe operation. And Nevada will eventually become a national dumping ground for radioactive waste.

I mean unless we have 80% falloff in demand, short of the black plague not happening.

[ThomWV]

22. Then what do you recommend for load following?

Natural gas? I ask because if that's the answer then what you're saying is keep what we have now, its good enough, just do more of it.

[Pavulon]

30. Renewables for non base load. Nuclear to cover what renewables can not(nt)

[kristopher]

31. Baseload is only needed when you use large scale centralized generation

What you call "baseload" is an artifact of centralized systems, not an essential element of delivering power to end users. Distributed grids based on renewable energy sources are completely viable and have the benefit of being both far more efficient and far more reliable.

The design of distributed grid doesn't require "baseload.

[madokie]

48. How is it so possible for so many to not see that?

Is this kind of blindness a choice or is it something that someone is born with? Nuclear power plants is not something we should be embracing in any way, shape or form.
Have a great day :hi:
Looks like its going to be a pretty one here where I'm at.

[XemaSab]

40. It doesn't really work that way

unless you're talking about hydro.

With wind and solar, you can't really switch it on like you can other peakers.

[kristopher]

32. Nuclear power supporters have trust in the nuclear industry

Just like fossil fuel supporters have trust in the fossil fuel industry.

This summary is drawn from published, peer reviewed research on the beliefs of the public and how those beliefs flow from values held. The abstract of the primary input is included.

1) Attitudes toward nuclear power are a result of perceived risk

2) Attitudes and risk perceptions are determined by previously held values and beliefs that serve to determine the level of trust in the nuclear industry.

3) Increased trust in the nuclear industry reduces perceived risk of nuclear power

4) Therefore, higher trust in the nuclear industry and the consequent lower risk perceptions predict positive attitudes toward nuclear power.

5) Traditional values are defined here as assigning priority to family, patriotism, and stability

6) Altruism is defined as a concern with the welfare of other humans and other species.

7) Neither trust in environmental institutions nor perceived risks from global environmental problems predict a person’s attitudes toward nuclear power.

8) Those with traditional values tend to embrace nuclear power; while those with altruistic values more often reject nuclear power.

9) Altruism is recognized as a dependable predictor of various categories of environmental concern.

10) Traditional values are associated with less concern for the environment and are unlikely to lead to pro-environmental behavioral intentions.



Here is the abstract and full list of references for the paper:
Abstract and references are intended for public use and distribution

The Future of Nuclear Power: Value Orientations and Risk Perception
Stephen C. Whitfield,1 Eugene A. Rosa,2 Amy Dan,3 and Thomas Dietz3;

Abstract
Since the turn of the 21st century, there has been a revival of interest in nuclear power. Two decades ago, the expansion of nuclear power in the United States was halted by widespread public opposition as well as rising costs and less than projected increases in demand for electricity. Can the renewed enthusiasm for nuclear power overcome its history of public resistance that has persisted for decades? We propose that attitudes toward nuclear power are a function of perceived risk, and that both attitudes and risk perceptions are a function of values, beliefs, and trust in the institutions that influence nuclear policy.

Applying structural equation models to data from a U.S. national survey, we find that increased trust in the nuclear governance institutions reduces perceived risk of nuclear power and together higher trust and lower risk perceptions predict positive attitudes toward nuclear power. Trust in environmental institutions and perceived risks from global environmental problems do not predict attitudes toward nuclear power. Values do predict attitudes: individuals with traditional values have greater support for, while those with altruistic values have greater opposition to, nuclear power. Nuclear attitudes do not vary by gender, age, education, income, or political orientation, though nonwhites are more supportive than whites. These findings are consistent with, and provide an explanation for, a long series of public opinion polls showing public ambivalence toward nuclear power that persists even in the face of renewed interest for nuclear power in policy circles.

[awoke_in_2003]

7. most poisons work silently. nt

[Nostradammit]

8. And leaves extremely toxic waste

that our great, great grandchildren will have to deal with.

[Pavulon]

13. No just Nevada, and we dropped real nuclear weapons on them

they will get over a hole in the ground.

[notadmblnd]

4. And I literally have an airport in my back yard.

You get used to the noise.

[awoke_in_2003]

6. give me "whoosh" any day. nt

[stray cat]

10. How many self righteous progressives live near a wind farm or would live next to a national airport

With planes flying overhead?

How many would be upset if the value of their house fell by 50%

[LWolf]

15. I have lived near wind farms.

Their noise is infinitely preferable to the noise of city traffic.

For 5 years I lived within walking distance of Plant 42, in the middle of the aerospace industry. Tests flights happened directly overhead at all hours, every day. Much louder than wind turbines.

These days I live rurally, and while I love the quiet, rural living is not quite as quiet as you might assume. Tractors, chain saws, and guns are regular noises. My closest neighbor uses one of these instead of a tractor:



It has that warning "beep" that can be heard for miles, and he uses it for hours on end. "Woosh" is not as irritating.

[kristopher]

42. Studies show that housing near wind farms increases in value compared...

...to similar housing where the turbines are not part of the landscape.

Obviously there are more people who like them than there are people who don't.

[annabanana]

53. Less than 9 miles from JFK here . .

You can get used to lots of stuff.

I wave at the incoming pilots in the summer months.

[Brickbat]

11. Constant regular noise and vibration is terribly disruptive, even if you think you're ignoring it. I

would have a hard time with a wind turbine I could hear.

[pipi_k]

16. You're right...you think you don't notice it until

it's gone.

I live in the woods, away from anything that would cause noise, but household appliances run all the time and cause a background noise that we don't pay attention to most of the time. People from the city come up here and always comment on how quiet and peaceful it is.

I think it would really freak them out to be here when the electricity is down for a while. That's when the quiet is really obvious, even for people who live outside the realm of city or suburban noise.

When the electricity comes back on, it's both a blessing and a disappointment, as we get our lights back, but the silence is once again gone, and even a few household appliances humming away in the background can seem like an assault on the senses.

[Hannah Bell]

44. i have a friend who lives in the country -- house is situated so that it feels very isolated, though

it's not -- other homes within a 10 minute walk --

but she invited a friend from nyc to visit & the new yorker about had a nervous breakdown when she had to be in the house alone -- very fearful & wouldn't go outside, either, silence was oppressive but every noise was frightening too -- might be a psycho or a bear or something.

[pipi_k]

51. It's even hard to get used to if someone has lived in a suburb

of a city.

The road we lived on previously was no more than 7 minutes' drive from the center, but still rather quiet, and had streetlights.

When we moved out here we found no streetlights at all and the nights are totally black. It took a long time before I could be comfortable with the darkness.


I get that whole noise thing, though. I'm not afraid to be in the house alone or anything (mainly because of the dogs) and I'm not afraid to go outside, but sometimes when a branch breaks in the woods surrounding the house, it's not hard to imagine it's some kind of huge creature.

One time it was...I heard all kinds of breaking and thrashing going on about 70 feet from the house. It was a very large moose wandering around on the logging road.

It was really pretty neat to see. From inside the house. hahahahaha

[rbixby]

23. I don't think its that much different

than the constant low hum of the freeway near where I live, or the frequent sound of planes flying over. You just learn to let it fade into the background. Everyone needs to make compromises and sacrifices sometimes in their lives for the common good, and most people just realize that.
Do you have a hard time listening to your refrigerator, or your furnace/air conditioner? Its those kind of 'white noise' type noises that are the quickest ones to fade into the background.

[Brickbat]

24. Health effects of constant noise and vibration aren't well studied, but there are some that link

airport noise with hypertension and other health problems. I think it's worth looking into, and worth listening to people who have concerns.

[itsrobert]

14. I don't sleep in my bedroom because it faces the I-15 freeway

in San Diego. I have to sleep in the living room downstairs. Fortunately, I'm moving after 4 years. Never again will I make the mistake to live so-close to the freeway.

[a la izquierda]

17. I used to live underneath the outbound flight path...

at Burbank airport. Holy smokes, talk about insanity! Thankfully, the planes stopped at 10pm. Now, I mountain bike near a large airforce base where extremely large planes do touchdown/takeoff training. The park I ride at is in the takeoff path. There's no tranquility in the park at all when those monsters come by.

Give me windmill whooshing any day of the week.

[MineralMan]

18. We get used to noises that occur regularly.

When my wife and I bought our house in Saint Paul, we didn't know there was a major freight rail line just two blocks away. After we moved in, we discovered that when the first train went by. About six large freight strings go through every day. I barely notice them any more, despite crossing nearby that means the train signals its approach with long blasts of its horn or whistle or whatever you want to call it.

Now, six years after moving into the house, the trains go almost completely unnoticed. In fact, they're sort of a regular and comforting sound, when we do notice them while lying in bed each evening. I even recognize the sounds of one particularly loud locomotive that is used. It has a loud high-pitched whine, and I listen to it change tone due to the Doppler effect as it passes.

I'd have no problem dealing with the sound of a nearby wind turbine. Like the train, it would represent the sound of business being done and energy being created or saved.

[MadHound]

19. Perhaps there is something wrong with the turbines.

Otherwise, turbines rate in at approximately 55 decibels at fifty feet, with wind speed ranging from 16-36 mph. This is marginally above background noise in a city. Perhaps that sort of noise is a shock, I can understand living in the country, but it isn't the din that these people are portraying it to be.

[kristopher]

33. +1

This type of story is pushed by the Koch Brothers and (as can be seen from the contributions on this thread) those who want us to be as dependent on nuclear power as we are on fossil fuels.

[laureloak]

20. The traffic in front of my house is noisy too.

[Doremus]

25. My dentist has windmills that don't make any noise.

Vertical axis wind turbine:




They're pretty cool.

Edit to provide a link:

http://www.icgreenenergyofohio.com/services

[alp227]

26. Fossil fuels are too wasteful for me. n/t

[4_TN_TITANS]

27. Jokes aside, I've heard they are pretty loud...

Ex-boss was riding horses once at Big South Fork (natural wilderness area in TN with wind turbines). He said you could hear that sound at least a mile away and that the size of these things are quite impressive.

That said - go wind power!

[stuntcat]

28. a little noise today is SOOO much more important than trying not to fyck the future to death.

humans horrify me

[apocalypsehow]

29. My favorite thread EVAH on DU was a wind turbine thread where I thoroughly schooled an anti-wind

power poster. It was textbook. I never see a wind power thread that I don't fondly remember it.

As for the OP, the Lindgrens and their neighbors need to get over it: a little noise is a small price to pay for clean energy.

[RamboLiberal]

35. Easy for you to say

Do you live near a wind farm? If not maybe you don't have room to tell them it's a small price to pay.

[apocalypsehow]

36. "Boo-hoo...mean 'ole clean energy makes me miss my beauty sleep! Boo-hoo!"

When it comes to the problems of climate change and fossil fuel use, it is a small price to pay.

Don't like it? Cry to Sean Hannity about it - perhaps he'll let you weep on his shoulder. :nopity:

Genuine progressives, especially those of us concerned about the environment, will remain unimpressed.



On edit: typo.

[RamboLiberal]

34. Maybe some of those who live near wind farms have valid complaints

VINALHAVEN, Maine — The three wind turbines that were designed to lower and stabilize the unpredictable electric bills of Vinalhaven and North Haven islands also have brought some sleepless nights to those who live closest to their giant blades and the noises they make.

The controversy over the noise levels between Fox Islands Wind officials and some islanders began soon after the turbines went on line last fall, but last week, the Maine Department of Environmental Protection received a letter from its wind turbine noise consultant that seems to back up the project’s unhappy neighbors.

“There exists a significant body of consistent meteorological and sound data indicating sound levels greater than applicable limits,” Warren L. Brown, who also serves as the University of Maine’s radiation safety officer, wrote Wednesday in a detailed letter. “Substantial changes are recommended for FIW nighttime operations.”

Brown reached his conclusions after reviewing a noise complaint submitted by Fox Islands Wind Neighbors, a loose association of those who are negatively affected by the turbines, and also after reviewing sound and other data from the Fox Islands Wind project.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/story/Business/Consultant-Vinalhaven-wind-turbine-noise-exceeds-limit,153636

In 2007, a phalanx of wind turbines were built around Charlie Porter's property in rural northern Missouri. Soon, Mr. Porter began to have trouble sleeping. So did his wife and daughter. The noise, he told me, made sleeping almost impossible. "We tried everything—earplugs, leaving the TV station on all night." Nothing worked. Late last year he moved his family off their 20-acre farm.

Mr. Porter's story is no isolated event. Rural residents in Texas, Maine, Pennsylvania, Oregon, New York, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, France and England have been complaining about the noise from wind turbines, particularly about sleep deprivation. Dozens of news stories—most of them published in rural newspapers—have documented the problem.

I've spoken to nine other people in New York, Wisconsin, Ontario, New Zealand, Nova Scotia and England who live, or lived, near wind turbines. All complained of the noise, with sleep deprivation being the most common complaint. For example, Janet Warren, who raises sheep near Makara, New Zealand, told me via email that the turbines near her home emit "continuous noise and vibration," which disturb her sleep and are causing "loss of concentration, irritability, and short-term memory effects."

Complaints about sleep disruption—as well as the deleterious health effects caused by the pulsing, low-frequency noise emitted by the giant turbines—are a central element of an emerging citizen backlash against the booming global wind industry.

Lawsuits that focus on noise pollution are now pending in Maine, Pennsylvania and New Zealand. In New Zealand, more than 750 complaints have been lodged against a large wind project near Makara since it began operating last April. The European Platform Against Windfarms lists 388 groups in 20 European countries. Canada has more than two dozen antiwind groups. In the U.S. there are about 100 such groups, and state legislators in Vermont recently introduced a bill that will require wind turbines be located no closer than 1.25 miles from any residence.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704240004575085631551312608.html

This could be a issue that needs more study. Just because wind is a great green energy source doesn't mean the wind turbines located near occupied areas will not be a noise nuisance to some and could even be creating some health or wellness issues.

Might be that they will have to locate where they are not near residences or have residents sign off on them or buy out residents where a wind farm is located. I've also read in UK where individual wind turbines have been ordered to be shut down by government officials because of neighbor noise complaints.

And no I'm not arguing against wind turbines, but IMHO humans who already live on land near where these turbines are to be located also need to be taken in to consideration.

[Fumesucker]

52. I think we need to require that roads be locate no closer than 1.25 miles from any residence..

Seriously, I live about thirty yards from a four lane highway right at a red light so car and trucks are stopping and starting at all hours of the day and night, even my two excitable, bark happy small dogs took about a week before they ignored even the loudest vehicles going by.

I actually have to consciously listen now in order to hear the traffic.

One possible solution to the low frequency noise you mention would be active noise cancellation, similar to the way some headphones designed for use on planes works. The lower the frequency of the sound you wish to cancel the easier it is to do and the better the cancellation works.

[donco6]

37. Yeah, because we should just keep building those coal plants -

Besides, they only locate those in poor areas. Fuck those poor people. We have to protect our property values! They can all get poisoned, not me.

[Stinky The Clown]

38. Maybe we can buy them off with Sun Chips in the old style biodegradable bags

[AlabamaLibrul]

39. Gimme a wind spill, which is common here in the form of hurricanes, before another oil spill.

ANY.
DAY.
OF.
THE.
WEEK.

[Canuckistanian]

41. I can't stand the "whirr" of nuclear reactor intake valves

I hear them from 100 miles away. I can't sleep, I can't make love to my wife.

They've made my life a living Hell. Even my dog doesn't seem herself any more.

Are there any associations I could join to fight and get my life back?

[JesterCS]

43. that reminds me of the people

who bitched about Sun Chips using biodegradable bags. " They were too loud "

I'm like " I can't wait to leave this planet "

[B Calm]

45. Thats the sound of easy money for farmers!

[B Calm]

46. Thats the sound of easy money for farmers!

[MellowDem]

49. Don't forget the pants that make that "whoosh" noise. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

50. They were built by GE not by the world leader in wind generators

Vestas a Danish company.