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Please, Please tell me how you would feel today if a life or 2

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lost-in-nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:03 PM
Original message
Please, Please tell me how you would feel today if a life or 2
were taken in this fire?????

is fucking $75.00 worth a human life or 2???

I guess it's worth animals lives.. cus they died
and please DO NOT go and tell me that I don't know what I am talking about...

my son is a Chief on our Volunteer FD (he's been a FF for 20 years)... I am on the ladies aux,

and if a house or what ever is burning they go.... whether the family/people donated or not....
and they give mutual aid to ALL surrounding towns and vice a versa
and if a car from NY or Pensie (or any state) crashed and burned on our highways the FD would still be there to extricate the victims or put the fire out.... and no they did not donate, it was the right thing to do

this is the town administrations fault for not providing protection for the town...

and don't give me they "voted" on it, the town counsel should have voted and made it a law... $75.00 more to the water bill, taxes what ever would have made the difference

no town survives on no money from the citizens
they have to get SOMETHING from them

the town/city counsel dropped the ball

yes I read about who pays what

but in the end humanity should prevail....

sorry but the fire chief was wrong....

I hope no one advocating the FD was right is ever in this situation (good luck if you are)...

money is not everything....

sorry but I think the moral thing to do is the priority...

just my $. 02....

lost


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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. What fire?
I haven't heard anything about a fire. I didn't even see 50,000 threads about it.
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lost-in-nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. ......
thanks Orrex


:-)

lost
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. ...
:hug:

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Two world views
it is painfully obvious now.

And I agree by the way...
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. If pets were allowed to die in that fire it is unforgivable.
I guarantee that anyone who disagrees has never had a pet.

They're just like family.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. the policy is if lives were in danger is to put the fire out, so i don't know where you're going
Edited on Wed Oct-06-10 07:09 PM by dionysus
with that line of thought.
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lost-in-nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. what if they didn't know
any one was in the house???
I know that sometimes the Fire Dept. doesn't know that
someone is trapped UNTIL they get to the scene...
the havoc, fear and shock prevent the whole story sometimes
and if it's a neighbor calling it in, how do they know everyone is accounted for
they try to account for the family involved... if some one is missing it is assumed they are in the house until other wise told.....

and yes I have "been there"
that is where I am going with this line of thought.....

lost

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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. the FD already said they would have saved people.
The homeowner had two hours to remove valued possessions and pets from the house before it caught fire from the barrel fire he started, but he's an asshole who just wants everybody to do everything for him.
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lost-in-nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. remind me where
Edited on Wed Oct-06-10 07:22 PM by lost-in-nj
you have been there and done that

and you know what they were going through.....
oh and what happened other than what the media has written

and I would not be running into my house with a fire close by the structure,
would You??
(I bet you say yes) just to fan the flames (so to speak)


lost
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. You don't have the facts.
The town has fire coverage. They voted on fire protection, that's why they had a fire department.

The county doesn't have a fire department. They have repeatedly voted not to provide one. In 2008 they voted on a plan to pay the various town fire departments a fee to provide coverage, and they voted no.

The town used to stop its trucks at the city limits, because their charter was to put out fires in the city. No one wants a truck to be putting out a fire in the county when two or three city houses burn, since the city pays taxes for the fire department and the county absolutely refuses to pay its share.

Because the county begged, the city fire department changed its laws (yeah, people are overlooking the fact that there were laws involved here laying out the jurisdiction of the fire department) to allow residents of the county who wanted it to pay $75 a year for fire protection, just as people pay for homeowners insurance or health insurance. The city for most of its history refused to do that because they knew that if they got called to a fire for someone who hadn't paid, people would expect them to put it out. The country residents promised they wouldn't have to, so the city gave in. Now they are being blamed for exactly what they feared being blamed for.

How would you feel if a fire started elsewhere in a region covered by the fire department and someone died because the fire department was putting out a fire for someone who refused to pay for fire protection? They knew there were no people in the structure. If there had been, they would have had to get them out, anyway, since it would be illegal to not render aid to save a life. That was never an issue.

It was never, ever, ever about $75. No one except those wanting to blame the fire department is arguing that this is about $75. It's about half a million dollars. It's about whether the fire department stays open or closes, maybe. If the fire department puts out fires in the county for people who didn't pay, no one will pay again. That's not about 75 bucks, it's about 75 bucks a year from 20K households, or however many have to pay. Year after year. It's about the difference between a new truck or not a new truck. An extra fighter to cover the extra area or not. It's about how the fire department is funded.

If we tell Republicans they only have to pay for schools or health care or the military if they want to, but they can still use the services, how many will pay?

My dad was a volunteer fire fighter, too, first in Hancock County, then in Harrison County (Orange Grove), Mississippi. I've ridden on fire trucks. I've peed on grass fires. I've helped swat them out. I've dressed in his boots and coat and stomped around as much as a ten year old can stomp around in boots and a coat. I have friends now who are firefighters. One of my closest co-workers is a volunteer firefighter, and we provide a service to most of the fire departments in the city of Austin. We sell tires. Do you know how much a tire for a fire truck is? I get checks for $1400 dollars all the time. I get checks for $10K dollars for a single department at a single time. And we offer a huge discount to the fire departments, and they are tax free, so that's a better price than the South Fulton Fire Department is going to get. Those are just tires, which last maybe two years if nothing goes wrong, on a truck. I have no idea how much hoses cost. Or boots, or anything else.

Lives are at stake. Lives would be lost if the fire department isn't funded, or has to spread its coverage out to areas it isn't budgeted to cover, and that refuses to pay for coverage. You take away the funding from the voluntary payments from the county, and the fire department can no longer afford to put out any fires in the county. That's when people might die. That's when the fire might spread to the neighbor's house.

I feel sorry for the homeowner. I actually agree, as much as I know it's a bad idea, that the fire department should have tried to stop the fire (there isn't much realization here of the fact that they would have wasted their time--it was a mobile home, and the water would have done as much or more damage to it as the fire). But all these disingenuous or completely clueless arguments that it's about $75, or even that it's about money at all, are infuriating.

And insulting as hell. No one on DU is so callous that they'd support letting a house burn for $75. That's offensive. That's as disgustingly offensive an accusation as I've ever seen leveled here. The issue was never about that for those who are arguing that the fire department was the least in the wrong of anyone in this equation. It's about the entire funding system of the fire department. If there had been a life involved, it's a completely different subject, and would have no doubt been handled differently. But there wasn't.
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lost-in-nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Joby I respect you and your views
and I am blaming the government in the town and County....
they should have made it mandatory or cut off water or other town services if the fee wasn't paid..

it should have been a counsel or planning board decision to add the $75.00 to the Utilities department and pay the FD out of that....
they had to get money from the towns people for something

the people of the city didn't want to pay taxes.... why in Gods name would anyone think they would pay the $75.00 unless mandatory with consequences??? the town dropped the ball and the people of the town just might wake up now...

and yes I know how much a tire let alone fuel for a fire truck costs, scott packs (and re-filling them) and helmets and turnout gear let alone communications between FF and command center.... I am fund raising all the time with my other Aux. members... you are preaching to the choir



lost

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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The city did it right, the county dropped the ball (repeatedly)
The county should have done all of those things - maybe now they will...
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. I remember when I was a kid we visited Washington. We went out for
Edited on Wed Oct-06-10 09:22 PM by applegrove
dinner with friends of my parents and stopped at their house in Alexandria. They had a cast iron plaque by the door on their 1700s house that listed the 'fire company' the owners were with... back in the 1800s!!!!
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