50 Dangerous Things You Should Let Your Kids Do — Endorsed by the NY Times!

[HuckleB]

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2010/10/04/50-dangerous-things-you-should-let-your-kids-do-endorsed-by-the-ny-times/

and

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/opinion/03sun4.html?_r=1

"Rearing a child is already a journey through self-doubt and guilt, and now here comes Gever Tulley to say we’re doing it wrong, and that what we really need to do is hand our young ones power tools and let them lick nine-volt batteries.

Mr. Tulley is a pedagogical theorist, though not an academic one. He wrote a book, soon to be out from Penguin, and founded the Tinkering School, near San Francisco, whose students do their work with PVC pipe and two-by-fours.

His argument: Children should get out more. They should learn to work with their hands, not just their Nintendo thumbs. Because if they don’t, they risk stunting their independence, ingenuity, curiosity and competence.

Mr. Tulley’s book, “Fifty Dangerous Things (You Should Let Your Children Do),” is a rebuke to a world of blunt-edged scissors, insipid molded-plastic playground equipment and perpetual parental anxiety. He believes parents don’t recognize what is most likely to endanger children (car trips, corn syrup). And he says that by engaging in seemingly (or mildly) risky exploration and play, children can become better problem-solvers and judges of risk. Children who don’t get acquainted with trivial danger (No. 5: Stick Your Hand Out the Window; No. 28: Climb a Tree), he says, don’t recognize real danger or can’t handle it when it comes.

..."

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Link to the book: http://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Dangerous-Things-Should-Children/dp/0984296107/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1286173755&sr=8-1

--------------------------------------


In our world of fear, and that world may be even more overbearing for parents, it's good to see a few voices of reason. Let's let kids be kids, and people be people. (And, no, that doesn't mean parents and kids should shirk responsibility or go sky diving without a parachute.)

:hi:

[Xipe Totec]

1. Flushing javalinas from the sugar cane fields with a burning tire

As if he actually asked for permission before he did it.


ETA: For those who have never seen a javalina

[HuckleB]

5. That does sound like fun.

:hi:

[Xipe Totec]

14. Not much fun when they're heading right for you

Razor sharp tusks, hair on fire, and very, very pissed.

I'm just glad he lived to tell the tale, years later, around the thanksgiving table.

[HuckleB]

18. I would imagine.

Luckily the ones I saw, when I lived in Arizona, tried to avoid humans at all cost.

[lonestarnot]

19. I prefer snipe hunting.

[WolverineDG]

88. ...

:spray: :rofl:

you could do that or come up with skits to perform around the fire...anything that involved someone getting a bucket of water thrown at them will do just fine.

dg

[TheWraith]

23. I have to confess...

My first thought on seeing them was "Do those taste like ham?"

[Xipe Totec]

74. They ought to taste like ham

They are wild pigs.

[Lance_Boyle]

85. They are peccary, not pigs. n/t

[WolverineDG]

89. giant rats with tusks nt

[Xipe Totec]

118. Pfft! Purist!

:evilgrin:

[Desertrose]

92. I see 'em almost every damn nite in my backyard!

They are so destructive...but damn, the babies really are cute - til they grow up.

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. I'm giving my nephew a can of lighter fluid, a BB gun and a box of strike anywhere matches

For his birthday. I had a lot of fun with these items. I don't see why he shouldn't too.

:P

[Xipe Totec]

3. Try a can of hairspray, a 6" nail, and a bonfire, nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

63. Oooh that would be fun too... I crushed up the heads of matches...

And packed the stuff into the backs of waisted lead pellets with a match stub. When you fired them out of the air pistol, the pellets would explode with a loud crack when they hit a hard object... damn, add a can of hairspray to that, and I think I could find a creative way to start that bonfire! :P

[Canuckistanian]

6. Bring back firecrackers

And Lawn Darts. And concrete playground surfaces under monkey bars. Let the little fuckers KNOW what danger is all about.

Missing teeth and broken bones build character!

[daleo]

42. What about DIHS?

Dart in Head Syndrome.

[pipi_k]

103. Well shit...

We just got up, rubbed some dirt on it, then ran to a friend's house to stick kitchen knives in the electrical outlets.

[GoneOffShore]

4. Used to play with lead fishing weights as a child

My dad let me use the lathe, jig saw, drill press and table saw by the time I was 10.

I was also using the air compressor and spray gun to apply paint by 12.

Was on the roof at 9 or 10.

The list goes on.

I remember an incident involving a Radio Flyer wagon, my brother and his bare feet. He didn't get tetanus.

I also had a chemistry set with all sorts of neat stuff - sulfur, saltpeter, carbon and other fun things. My dad even set up a Bunsen burner.

[Cronus Protagonist]

66. You reminded me of that time I made my own gunpowder

Except I added magnesium filings to it. Man, it went up like a rocket... Huge flash, giant billowing white smoke and the magnesium burned like a thermal lance might have done... it was spectacular!

[hayu_lol]

90. When firecrackers, including the really big ones, were...

banned in S CA(Hollywood), we just turned to using carbide. Tablespoon of carbide, add some water, light it off. Very satisfying noise and you could blow cans 50 feet in the air.

[cbdo2007]

7. How about - Drink a can of HFCS every day!!

I don't see how that can cause any harm...

[HuckleB]

8. Did you read the column?

:shrug:

[Canuckistanian]

11. Let's not go overboard, here

That stuff KILLS.

[HuckleB]

16. The author of the column, and the author of the book, apparently agree with you on that.

[HuckleB]

37. OK, I'll quote the column:

"He believes parents don’t recognize what is most likely to endanger children (car trips, corn syrup)."

[sufrommich]

9. I feel sorry for kids today. It's not that they don't have a

sense of adventure, it's that it's scared out of them at an early age.I spent most of my childhood wandering around all over the place along with every other kid in my neighborhood.Bring back Jarts with metal tips too!

[HuckleB]

22. Jarts I can live without, but the rest of your post is spot on!

[onpatrol98]

What the heck is a Jart?

[HuckleB]

29. Lawn darts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_darts

[TheMadMonk]

54. Make your own.

Not quite the same but still a hell of a lot of fun.

• Take a 40-50 cm length of 12-16mm dowel.
  
• With a fine kerf saw (pullsaw is ideal) cut a cross in one end to a depth of 5-6cm.
  
• Make up a set fins using the basic origami starter figure and slip into the cuts.
  
• Drive a nail into the other and snip off the head. File to a point if you wish.
  
• Throw at straw/hay bales.
  
• Quickly figure out rubber bands make excelent launcher.
  
• Advance to wrist wrocket style launchers and solidly embed darts in paling fences and siding till clipped around the ear.
  
• Escalate to a ballistae powered by bicycle innertubes.
  
• Dissassemble everything and deny all knowlege.

[HuckleB]

56. Is there a DU club that does this?

:evilgrin:

[orleans]

55. we had jarts when i was a kid. i really liked them.

no one ever got hurt or killed which was a great thing.

[HuckleB]

57. Same here.

One side note that interests is that the helicopter parenting set has worked so hard to eliminate free play time from kids' lives that many of them are spending far more time playing organized sports than ever before. Other pressures are pushing kids to practice more than ever before, etc... And the funny thing is, head injuries are on the rise, but no one is calling for limiting exposure to the type of organized sports that lead to this. I'm not saying we should, though I do think that practice time, etc... is now ridiculous for many kids.

Concussions in Young Athletes on the Rise, Especially in Hockey and Football Players
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100830094924.htm

[orleans]

128. i also have a problem with putting so much pressure on kids

parents who push so fucking much are stealing their children's childhoods.

an article in nyt talks about picture books on the decline--parents want their kids to be reading "real books"

ugh.

"They’re 4 years old, and their parents are getting them ‘Stuart Little,’ ” said Dara La Porte, the manager of the children’s department at the Politics and Prose bookstore in Washington. “I see children pick up picture books, and then the parents say, ‘You can do better than this, you can do more than this.’ It’s a terrible pressure parents are feeling — that somehow, I shouldn’t let my child have this picture book because she won’t get into Harvard.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/us/08picture.html?_r=2&hp

[HuckleB]

144. Yeah, that story drove me nuts yesterday.

For too many parents, perspective has gone down a deep, dark, fast running sewer.

:toast:

[The Doctor.]

73. They're great for improvised tag.

;)

[davepc]

137. the most vile, evil flying projectile known to man!

[awoke_in_2003]

110. Jarts are greatness. nt

[Gabi Hayes]

10. more wingnut, libertarian horseshit.

Ha...I said bring back jarts, too, before reading the above post

[HuckleB]

13. I'm not sure what the first part of your statement means.

[Gabi Hayes]

17. this isn't the first thing written along these lines. some jackass wrote a book about

letting boys be boys, how the world is being feminized by restricting the freedom of kids, in this case boys, to act the way they did back in the good old days....you know, Jim Crow, lynchings, gays as felons.

[HuckleB]

20. I don't see any of that in this book, or in the NYT column, or on Free Range Kids.

It seems like you're projecting a great deal here. This book appears to be a reaction to helicopter parenting and all the fears that ensue from that culture. Helicopter parenting appears to be spread throughout the political spectrum. However, trying to redirect undue fears so they don't take away from life, and from development, seems like a very liberal thing to do.

[Gabi Hayes]

24. I saw all I needed in the snips you provided. looks like just another of the anti-nanny state

BS projected by proponents of laissez-faire everything

making fun of improvements in playground equipment is about as asinine as it gets

I work in a grade school, and do you have any idea how many trips to the nurse the kids make per day/week when they get hurt on our greatly enhanced playground?

does he encourage kids to eschew seatbelts, bike helmets?

what?

waste of time to read any more than provided in the OP

thanks, though

[HuckleB]

30. Well, you're quite wrong.

[HuckleB]

31. dupe

[Posteritatis]

94. Reacting to an article one refuses to read is always a great way to look smart. (nt)

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sufrommich]

15. Hey, it's a growing movement!

:toast:

[lightningandsnow]

25. Because only libertarians let their kids climb trees?

[Gabi Hayes]

28. because wingnuts love to belittle/vilify any attempts to make the world safer in their mania

to turn the credulous against ALL government regulation


if it were up to them, you'd still see fourteen year olds on every corner, lighting up their Camels unfiltered

I know it's hard to draw the line, but there is one, and if you had a child killed by having his/her insides sucked out by a faulty swimming pool vacuum apparatus.....well, you get the idea

[HuckleB]

34. Actually, wingnuts are a big part of the problem in this area.

They love their fear!

[WolverineDG]

61. Wow, remind me to never show you my senior class informal picture

Tons of stuff in that picture that today would get some of my class thrown in jail & others in rehab, while the rest of us would die laughing from all the pearl clutching.

And strangely enough, we all turned out just fine.

dg

[uncommon]

77. The point is that the line is way too far to the overprotective side these days.

Of course there is a line, and of course we want our kids to be safe, but we also want them to enjoy life and not be afraid all the time.

[HuckleB]

36. Apparently.

I had no idea that taking my kid backpacking from the time he was six months old, and letting him climb around the wilderness was so libertarian.

[krabigirl]

83. Lol, as opposed to our current draconian nanny state bs, fine with me.

[Gabi Hayes]

136. good job falling for the propaganda, or are you catapulting it, too?

all you have to do is go to Free Range Kids and see the wingnut sites they push on the right hand side

wise up

[HuckleB]

142. Yes, please go to Free Range Kids!

Some examples of "the wingnut sites they push!"

Campaign For A Commercial-Free Childhood
http://www.commercialfreechildhood.blogspot.com/

Carl Honore's Blogs
http://www.carlhonore.com/

Outdoor Baby
http://outdoorbaby.net/

Spiked Online's Parenting Page
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/issues/C45/

Play Everything
http://playeverything.wordpress.com/

Will the horrors never cease?

:rofl:

[HuckleB]

145. Exactly. Fear has taken over, and the kids are dealing with the consequences.

[Posteritatis]

93. Yep, better to keep them locked in vats for twenty years. It works for scotch, right? (nt)

[distantearlywarning]

147. Just when I think I've already read

the most stupid thing anyone could post on DU, someone always comes along to prove me wrong.

:eyes:

[depakid]

12. Loved lawn darts as a kid

Childhood lawn dart injuries. Summary of 75 patients and patient report.

Abstract

Lawn dart injuries account for an estimated 675 emergency department visits per year. Seventy-six patients are described herein. The victims ranged from 1 to 18 years of age and were predominantly male (male to female ratio is 3.1:1). The most common sites of injury were head (54%), eye (17%), and face (11%).

Hospitalization was required for 54% (41/76) of these patients. Sequelae included unilateral blindness and brain damage. The case fatality rate was 4%. The extent of a head injury was not always clinically apparent at the initial presentation and should be promptly defined by computed tomographic scan. Despite the recent ban on the sale of lawn darts, there remain an estimated 10 to 15 million sets of lawn darts in the homes of Americans. Pediatricians should encourage parents to discard all lawn darts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2396629

[HuckleB]

108. This thread clearly shows that DU needs a lawn darts club. -eom-

[awoke_in_2003]

111. Sign me up. nt

[depakid]

119. And we can lick 9 volt batteries, too!

Can you still get those things?

[HuckleB]

123. Absolutely. Plenty of toys still use them!

:hi:

[Odin2005]

21. We overprotect kids so much nowadays it is PATHETIC.

No wonder they are overweight, their parents are so scared to let them go outside and get dirty, and god forbid they get a scraped knee!

[HuckleB]

78. Exactly. -eom-

[WolverineDG]

26. We were mowing the lawn from the age of 8 & doing other chores for $

We jumped off of swing sets to practice "flying" so we'd be ready when Peter Pan showed up (I put my shoes in the window at night so I wouldn't have to go off to Never Never land bare-footed), we went camping, built fires, rode our bikes all around town. In the summer, we left home in the morning & didn't show up again until dinner time. Our parents left us at home alone in the evenings from time to time (once we proved we were responsible enough to NOT set the house on fire; by age 9, it was considered an insult to still need a babysitter). When my brother & I were teens, Mom & Dad would go off on trips, leaving us home alone (with emergency $ & fully stocked pantry & fridge), & only a neighbor to check in with daily. My brother went hunting & fishing with my dad as often as he could.

This sort of stuff would give the pearl clutchers heart attacks today & my brother & I would have been thrown into kiddie jail (aka foster care). I had a grand time as a kid.

dg

[HuckleB]

33. Yup Indeed. +1,000,000,000,000

[Lugnut]

64. Bingo!

I had a blast as well. My parents never left us alone until we were teenagers but I never had a helmet on my head when I rode my bike. I fell off my bike, some trees and my horse. There are scars on my knees that still have dirt healed into them. I'm still kicking at age 65. My mother grew up the same way I did and she's almost 89.

[HuckleB]

65. Well, even the most ardent Free Range parent, today, finds bike helmets to be a good idea, however.

:hi:

[WolverineDG]

72. I've got to agree with the bike helmets, though

keeps kids safer, but they can still ride their bikes.

As for being left alone, my parents would go out to eat or some social function & leave us to ourselves once we learned how to use the oven & stove to cook pot pies or TV dinners. (My mom had me learning stuff in the kitchen from the time I was 4, although at first, all I did was "help" lick the batters.) They were only gone a few hours, we knew where they were, there were neighbors all around, & the number for 911 was much simpler: O . Surprisingly, neither my brother nor I broke the rules against playing with matches or leaving the house, but I think that's because we didn't want to be treated like babies & have to have a baby sitter.

They didn't do the "leave the kids to their own devices for a couple of days" thing until we were in high school. And even then, while tempting as it was to have a blow-out party at the house, we knew if we got caught, we'd lose those freedoms & get stuck with babysitters again.

dg

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Climb a tree!!!! Oh yes

I DID IT... many a times!

Hell, we are waiting for nephews to be a little older... the young one is too young still, and I will get new rope and all the fixings and teach them how to rappel.

YES me on belay.

[blogslut]

32. Fuck the kids!

I'm gonna go buy me a nine-volt battery. I used to love licking those things. :)

[HuckleB]

35. Everyone I know did it as a kid.

None of us were encouraged to do it, of course.

:hi:

[Codeine]

113. Augh! Just thinking about that makes my tongue hurt.

The hell were we thinking?

[Art_from_Ark]

38. That was the only way to test them

I had to make sure my 9-volt was fully charged before putting it back in my transistor radio :)

[HuckleB]

39. That's right. Dang I'm old, and I have no memory.

Hmm. Maybe I would have benefited from a helicopter parent or two.

Naaaaahhhh.

[WolverineDG]

60. How else did you learn to do the Uncle Fester trick with the light bulb?

For the faint of heart who are having strokes reading this thread, I won't say how that is done. :eyes:

dg

[Iterate]

68. How about cooking a hotdog

with a board, two nails, and a piece of electrical cord? Nobody would have thought the most dangerous part was the hotdog. Won't do that again.

[WolverineDG]

70. we used to cook them over the fire with wire coat hangers

:thud:

whoops, lost another pearl clutcher.....


dg

[spin]

152. Works great.

Use to cook hot dogs at work using that technique. Our test stations for the devices we were testing had 120 volt outputs. We would just plug two cables with banana jacks at each end into them, put two hypodermic needles on the free ends and insert into a hot dog.

Tasty.

[HuckleB]

154. +1

[awoke_in_2003]

112. same here...

and then there is the trick of everyone holding hands and the first in line touches the cattle fence. All good fun, unless you were the last in line :)

[EFerrari]

40. The NYTs thought my kids should invade Iraq. I should listen to them?!

[HuckleB]

43. Oh goodness. Do you find anything of substance objectionable with this piece?

WOW!

:wow:

[EFerrari]

47. Lighten up. I started looking after my brother when I was 8

and he was 2. lol

[HuckleB]

48. After the angry response you offered, you tell me to lighten up?

:rofl:

(Note: That's two red herrings in two posts. If you want to discuss the content of the OP, please do.)

[EFerrari]

49. If you are reading my response as angry, you're working too hard.

[HuckleB]

50. Nice try.

You don't go to Iraq as your choice of red herring (for a piece that is discussing helicopter parenting), and then pretend your post isn't angry.

[EFerrari]

52. LOL! You used the NYTs as an opinion leader , "endorsed by the NYTs".

I pointed out that they were aren't all that and you insist I'm angry?

LOL

Whatever.

[HuckleB]

53. It's the title of the post at Free Range Kids.

If you actually read any of it, or simply looked at the exclamation point, you would know that the NYT part came with a wink and a nod, but you didn't, and now you want me to believe that your post (about Iraq!?) came with a wink and a nod.

Sorry, I'm not buying.

[Gabi Hayes]

133. did you bother to check into some of the sites Free Range Kids wants you to check out?

like overlawyered.com?

http://overlawyered.com/accolades/

look who gives them 'accolades'

The Weekly Standard, WSJ Opinion Journal, Neal Boortz, Malkin, Business Insider, American Heritage


good job!

thanks for catapulting the propaganda!

[HuckleB]

135. What other site linked from FreeRangeKids bothers you?

Do you really think your ludicrously selective red herring is evidence of anything but your need to create a world that doesn't actually exist, except in your preconceptions?

[Gabi Hayes]

138. I knew you'd say that. no surprise

why are you pushing so hard for this, when they clearly espouse trash sites that are attempting to disenfranchise the only venue the powerless have to fight the complete subjugation of what pitiful freedoms we have left?

sort of ironic, isn't it?

but keep on with your valiant quest

[HuckleB]

141. That's your claim.

And yet you can't offer up another supposedly horrible link.

If you knew anything about Free Range Kids, you'd know the reason that site is listed. It's funny that you think that's justification for your ridiculous attack on a movement that is very progressive, that is fighting against unwarranted fear, the same type of fear we've been fighting since Bush entered office.

It's clear that you don't care about the full picture, that you only want to see what your preconceptions allow. If that's all you have, then why are you bothering to respond to this thread?

[HughMoran]

46. Ludicrous

Why?

[JVS]

51. LOL! Good one!

[Gabi Hayes]

139. got that. btw, EF, check your PMs

[HughMoran]

41. Family friend's kid fell off playground equipment and died

It doesn't hurt to have well designed equipment that doesn't have a concrete support located where a child could fall on it.

[HuckleB]

44. No, it doesn't, but that's not what's caused today's bizarre culture of fear among parents.

[HughMoran]

45. Oh, I generally agree

I try like heck to get my lazy girls to do anything practical - it's quite annoying compared to what I can do (almost everything required to build & maintain a house or car.)

[Taitertots]

105. OMG one person died, we better redesign all playgrounds

Are we going to redesign them all again the next time one child dies?

[HughMoran]

121. That's quite silly

Probably want to read my reply to the other poster.

Oh, and hope your Corvair is holding up well after all these years.

Perhaps we should put them back in factories at age 13 losing limbs and lives too.

I hope you were being sarcastic.

[Taitertots]

126. You seem to be having a problem with magnitude

Do you think Playground equipment was as dangerous as having children in factories?
Do you think the design of playground equipment as fundamentally flawed as the corvair?

[HughMoran]

127. Dunno - but I stood at the spot where a child of a friend died

It was a rather sobering experience. I agree that kids are spoiled by paranoid parents and don't do nearly what we did as kids, but as a mechanical engineer who could lose his license (or worse) if a person lost their life on a piece of equipment I designed, I take this particular aspect of safety deadly serious.

[Taitertots]

130. Thousands of people die every year in slip and fall accidents

There is no way to stop every accidental death. The only thing you can do is prevent obvious dangers, like children in factories or corvair suspension. Was the design of the play set really what caused this death?

I understand your concern. However, even if we put feather pillows under all the equipment and someone would still fall head first into it and die. People fall and die on flat ground, there is no way to design anything that people can't find a way to die on.

[treestar]

131. Why not? It's not just a fall, the kid died.

Why shouldn't it be as safe as we can make it?

[Taitertots]

151. Lets make it as safe as we can, a flat round jello blob n/t

[Hekate]

153. Ew. Taiter, let me help you out because you're obviously searching for words....

The words you are searching for in response to someone else's personal tragedy are, "I'm sorry for your loss. That must have been devastating."

Try that next time, because I've got to tell you, your several responses in this subthread are making you look, well, heartless and incapable of empathy.

Hekate

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. Bring back shop class. n/t

[HuckleB]

59. It's been renamed. It's now Industrial Tech.

[WolverineDG]

62. Never trust a wood shop teacher who has all his fingers intact nt

[awoke_in_2003]

114. and another hard learned lesson...

wood shop teachers make the best paddles (well, depending on the point of view :) )

[Iterate]

67. Pocket knives at age five,

mudball wars with other neighborhoods, "exploring", which meant getting as far from home as you could and still make it back only five minutes late for dinner, chemistry sets and molten glass, rebuilding any discarded oily thing, match rockets, the color of glowing copper and flash of exploding hydrogen, drinking water from a pump, airplane glue that wouldn't come off, building clubhouses out of scrap, pellet guns, damming creeks, reading books that blew your mind, setting fire to a driveway. OK, that one was over the top and wasn't repeated. And maybe a few things in the early teens that would later be called "monkey-wrenching".

The downside, if there was one, also included plenty of practice doing work adults weren't so fond of.

Looking back, I would never think of that upbringing as libertarian or careless or anti-regulation on my parent's part; it was only accidentally pro independence and pro real world experience. Never could I have imagined that it would need to be put in a book and sold as advanced parenting. It's a shame my parents didn't live long enough to be called "pedagogical theorists".

There was a point though some time later when I heard the weather-caster warn people to wear their jackets, as it was cold outside. Something didn't seem right about that.

[notadmblnd]

69. It has always been my belief that if you don't let your children take risks

they'll grow up to be people who don't take risks. It bothers me that a sense of fear has taken over in every aspect of society these days.

[Iterate]

71. Agree, and the right kind of risks at the right time.

If they can accumulate skill with small risks at a young age they'll know how to deal with bigger ones later -Tully has a talk on fora.tv from last May that spells out his thinking on it.

Where I would part ways with him though would be in limiting the danger that kids can't possibly be aware of and would have no control over. That cover the bike helmet/concrete on the playground/lawn dart issues. The world might be a dangerous place, but that doesn't mean we have to make it worse. Being crippled by fear seems hardly better.

I suppose the same could be said for adult-level dangers as well.

[notadmblnd]

98. You're absolutely right. My son was climbing before he was walking

His father could climb trees like a monkey and that's no exaggeration, and I guess it isin my son's blood too. We hung a rope from the maple tree when he was two and he has been climbing ever since. When he was six, he wanted a motor cycle. We bought him a 50cc Honda. Of course we bought him all the safty gear that goes along with it. He rides like a pro. When he was 13, he saved two small kids who had fallen through the ice on a pond near our house and walked them to the nearest police station. When the cops brought him home soaking wet, he told me "mom, it's not what you think." He thought that I would think that he was in some kind of trouble. When I asked him why he went in after them instead of calling for help. He said it was the only thing he could think of doing. He said he sent his friend for help and at first- he paniced too. But he said that he then realized the water was not over his head (he was and is quite tall for his age). He was given three citations, city, county and state. Was recognized at school for his courage and a celabratory dinner was given in his honor.

I can't help but think what would have happened to those two little boys that day if he hadn't taken a risk and gone in after them.

He's 17 now, in his last year of high school and already has two certifications for auto mechanics and his license from the state (he started working on small motors when he was 11). His first real repair was on his fathers quad. He replaced the piston in it. I am so proud of him and if his father was still alive, I believe he would be proud of him too. He's a good kid, goes to school, does his homework, and isn't afraid to take on new tasks that may be dangerous. He's a good hearted soul, who has never been in a fight or seriously injured (despite some of the dumb things he's done), A defender of nerds and a befriender of those that don't quite fit in. He isn't afraid to question authority and trusts in me as his mother to back him up when his peers try to lead him astray.

[Iterate]

106. Wow, I hadn't thought about that kind of risk and fear,

or actually, risk and confidence. That's downright heroic -and you know what would have happened to those kids. The rule of thumb we used in cold water boating for hypothermia for adults was 5/50, 5 minutes until you loose coordination and can't help yourself, and 50 before you loose consciousness.

God, I can remember now using that line "mom, it's not what you think.", but it was never heroic and it really was what she was thinking.

I know bad things can happen, or rather, they do happen. But now that I think about it (the teachers called it idle daydreaming), you're the brave and heroic one for biting your tongue and holding your breath at each new escapade. That's where the courage and the confidence and the trust starts and it sounds like you're being well repaid.

[HuckleB]

124. Thank you for sharing your amazing story!

[lumberjack_jeff]

101. Or worse, a grownup unable to recognize a risky situation. n/t

[SoCalDem]

75. Our kids grew up in a house with three of these

no one ever got burned and there was never a house fire..

[uncommon]

76. Amen -

I let my daughter learn some things the hard way - we can't coddle these kids the way we do and expect them to be functional adults.

[JackDragna]

79. A story from the other end of things..

I have a friend of mine who has two boys, each in their young teens. Throughout their entire lives, their time has been structured, guided constantly by their parents. They've also been allowed to avoid pretty much anything that stressed them or made them in the least bit uncomfortable. The result? The kids are literally terrified of everything. If any type of insect gets near them, they freak out and run around crying. They cannot form social bonds with other kids, at all. Perhaps worst of all, they just can't negotiate in the real world. Give them a simple task to do and they screw it up, or act as if it's beneath them. They're also woefully physically underdeveloped.

I'm not exactly an old man, but I saw a change in the generation after me in how kids were raised that goes deeper than simply putting a bike helmet on a kid. Parents decided the easiest method of raising their children was to be nonconfrontational about discipline, but at the same time worry excessively about how kids spent every moment of their time. My friend's kids, to my friend's own admission, are likely to need to be kept at home for their entire lives. These kids were normal when young, too, and showed no signs of developmental problems.

[WolverineDG]

86. and it's also why we have a generation of kids growing up eating only

chicken nuggets, hamburgers, hot dogs, & french fries. God forbid a child be required to have 3 bites of something they *might* not like. :eyes:

dg

[AlabamaLibrul]

80. #51 - let your child bully someone to death. It's all the rage these days. n/t

[HuckleB]

81. What is the point in posting that?

:shrug:

[snooper2]

82. Bravo- Very good, some people are getting the picture..

We have a nation of idiots..


People who don't know how to put their car in neutral if they can't stop the car with brakes-

People who can't cook anything from scratch

People who honestly believe Obama is the anti-christ (or put faith in sky bunnies of any kind)

People who think the CIA and FBI is monitoring everything you do, people who are clueless about how a phone call actually works or the Intertubes

People who don't understand basic physics and live in the DU dungeon


All these folks should have gotten out a little more. Hang around with some folks to make your own go cart. Figure out what the difference between AC and DC is (besides knowing what the acronym stands for). Learn to make bread from scratch. Idiocracy can be stopped...if lazy parents want to.

[WolverineDG]

87. I thought AC/DC was a rock band

:hide:

kidding!

dg

[krabigirl]

84. Good f or him for writing this! I wholeheartedly agree. I am shocked at the amount of fear out there

All endorsed by the powers that be. I don't agree with everything on this list, but i think things have gone way too far the other way, and it is scary.

[LanternWaste]

91. I imagine many people confuse prudence with fear...

I imagine many people confuse prudence with fear...

[HuckleB]

95. For many, what they consider to be prudence, actually is based on undue fears.

And the outcomes are not positive for the kids.

[Greyhound]

96. I think he may have a point.

I'm constantly amazed at how fearful younger people seem to be about everything today (the major exception is the twenty-somethings coming back from the wars). It's like they've never had to go through anything scary or do anything hard and so are willing to do or put up with anything to avoid the threat of unpleasantness.

[HuckleB]

134. Indeed.

I'm not so sure it's that they've never had to go through anything scary. I suspect that it's because they've spent their lives listening to their parents (and other adults) tell them to "be careful," "not to go any higher," "don't jump," etc... over and over again, all with the repeated justification from the adult: "it's just to keep you safe."

[MadHound]

97. It truly is sad,

I drive through my old neighborhood, which is still home to the same types of families that were there when I was a kid.

No kids out playing in the yards.

No kids out on bikes, or roller skates, or skateboards.

The basketball hoops grow rusted and the nets frayed.

The swings blow in the wind.

The parks only see squirrels and rabbits now.

The only sounds are those of traffic and wind.

But if you go through at twilight, you will see the eerie blue glow of TV screens and computer monitors.

Truly sad.

[Renew Deal]

99. #38 Have your kids search your car for FBI Tracking Devices

:D

[ThomWV]

100. I lick batteries to this day to test them

[rucky]

102. check out his TED presentation on it, too...

http://www.ted.com/talks/gever_tulley_on_5_dangerous_things_for_kids.html

[HuckleB]

146. Thanks for sharing! -eom-

[laundry_queen]

104. I agree, but only to an extent

There are things in that list that are things my kids do on a regular basis and then there are things in that list that I think, WTF? There's a difference between dangers that are lessened because there are safe, supervised ways to participate (playing with fire, sleeping in the wild) and then things that are unpredictable and impossible to protect against, and is basically just rolling the dice. (playing in a hail storm - I'm sure you're not going to go out when it's golf-ball sized hail, but there is lightening). Just like, sure, when I was younger no one wore a bike helmet. My kids don't get to ride a bike without one. Why? Not because I'm some helicopter parent. When you know better, you do better. There's no reason to make a big deal out of it. My kids still get to ride their bikes whenever they want, all over town. Maybe it's because I know a kid in school who had a serious head injury due to lack of helmet, so to me, why wouldn't you wear one? To build character? I suppose a brain injury and being stuck in a hospital would built character...

I agree that too many people now over structure their kids. Most of my kids' friends are too busy to even have playdates. My kids get to do 1 activity per year/season. My older 2 have/had held down paper routes. My kids go out bike riding all over the place. But would I let them stick stuff in the microwave to 'see what it does'. Um no, I cannot afford to replace a microwave at the moment.

When people say, "kids now are overly coddled! Why, when I was a kid, we did xyz and ABC and we turned out just fine!" I like to remind them that all the kids that died aren't alive to have a say and disagree with them. My mom grew up on the farm and knows many friends and cousins who were injured or killed on the farm. Why did her whole family survive? Her dad was obsessed with their safety and had strict rules around machinery. And I don't see anything wrong with that. I think the whole problem with our society right now is the total inability to rate the dangers. For some reason, the same parents who won't let their kids out of the house to play at the closest park because they might get kidnapped, have no problem buckling them (or not) into carseats that improperly installed and taking them on a ride, going 20 over the speed limit and texting with their mom friends. It's just craziness.

[Iterate]

109. No, I don't think it's necessarily about physical danger,

or ever about microwave destruction, and certainly not one they hadn't found on their own. I haven't read the book, or even the Times article (can't get to it, but I've seen 4+ lectures/talks/reviews by the author). It's more an idea of protecting kids only from real danger they can't see or control (like the texting and speeding or poisons and such) until they can see it for themselves.

Maybe cooking is a good example. No one would consider letting a four-year old have a 12" chef's knife, deep fryer, and a wok, but they can start out mixing terrible cakes and cookies. They try, they fail, they make a mess, but sometimes it works out. By the time they're six, it's a pairing knife and an apple, seven it's taco's, eight it's a full and independently prepared taco dinner, with cleanup (in theory).

By the time they're in high school, the thinking goes, they've not only learned about the real world, flavors, textures, and chemistry, along with the mastery of any appliance or tool, maybe they've picked up a willingness to try new flavors and cuisines, as well as having the confidence to stand up for their right to wholesome food. Worst case, they have a few cuts, burns, and some bad meals. Er, no worst case they burn out the kitchen, but there's also a chance they would have some very impressive first dates.

So the thinking goes. I hope I haven't butchered the idea or overstated too much. Looking at it that way, it doesn't seem like much of a new or radical idea.

[Taitertots]

107. Be afraid, be very afraid

It makes it much easier for you to be convinced that you need to buy more expensive products.

[HuckleB]

125. Or stay at home, in front of the TV, where you will you be convinced to buy those products.

[Codeine]

115. I had a .22 at age eight.

As long as I bought my own rounds I was allowed to take it out and wander for miles with it. When I had no ammo we took our BB guns.

Crossman 760 for the win!

[HuckleB]

148. Do you remember the experience as a positive thing?

[Codeine]

149. Absolutely.

And knowing that I had been trusted to hold a very, very dangerous weapon in my hands instilled a powerful sense of responsibility in me even at that age. It was made clear that what I was carrying could kill a person if misused - and that the only person at fault would be me - but that I was deemed able to handle it safely. To this day I have a healthy respect for dangerous items without the corresponding fear that many others might feel.

[HuckleB]

150. Cool. I appreciate you sharing your experience.

:toast:

[Blue_In_AK]

116. When I was a kid, 10-11 years old,

we lived in Colorado Springs by one of the bluffs on the north end of town. I used to go out by myself and climb around all over those rocks, risking life and limb and rattlesnake bites, for hours on end. Maybe I was lucky I didn't get hurt, but it sure was fun.

[OswegoAtheist]

117. I had a friend die in a house fire...

This was back in the early 80s, in Toronto. The kid was about four, which would have made him three years younger than me at the time. He and his brother were playing with a lighter in their bedroom, caught the pillowcase, and the four-year-old didn't make it out.

And I've thought about it and thought about it for a long time, and I can't really say that it was a sign that kids were in constant danger, and needed constant supervision. From what I knew about the two kids, and what the papers reported in the coming months, it seemed that they were playing with the lighter because it was a forbidden object, and with no contextual information, they didn't know how to use it, or what it was for besides making a little flame.

That, I think, is the crux of the Free-Range v. Helicopter Parent debate: it is my belief that, as a parent of three kids, it isn't our job to make our kids safe, it's to teach them how to be safe in all circumstances through personal awareness and experience. We shouldn't tell them not to talk to strangers, we should tell them which strangers are safe to talk to (police officers, firepersons, daddy's parole officer :P ), and how to be cautious around people you don't know. We shouldn't tell our kids that bicycles are dangerous and aren't to be ridden, because the first thing that will do is make them want to ride a bike even more.

I say this as someone who has lost a friend to tragedy, and as someone who took public transportation to school, by myself, at the age of eight*. Dangers are made worse when they're made mysterious.

Oswego "*the school found out about this and flipped out; how could they expect me to pay my own way? So they bought me a sheet of TTC stamps each month. Aah, I miss living in a Social Democratic nation" Atheist

[pipi_k]

120. And there you have it...

the problem of trying to find a balance between letting kids run wild and smothering them.

How do parents do that...I don't know.


I did the best I could with my kids...trying to find that balance. I know they had lots more freedom than I ever did, and I tried real hard not to instill in them a horrible fear of the world like my mother did with me.

When I was young, literally everything was dangerous and scary. Although I do have to admit, now that I'm older, that there were a couple of situations where she absolutely made the right call and possibly prevented something awful (child molesting) to happen.

But everything else that normal kids did...no. Too dangerous

I grew up to become a fearful adult.

And you know, it's not even an irrational fear, because the world really IS a dangerous place. So my fears were reinforced year after year after year until now I literally can't do anything without being afraid.

It sucks.

She didn't mean to do it...I know that.

It's just so hard for many parents to figure out sometimes what's too much or what's not enough.

[struggle4progress]

122. Frankly, I don't know how I survived childhood alive. It's interesting

to ask people what things they tried as children that led to narrow escapes, even if they didn't recognize the narrowness of the escape at the time

One fellow told me how, when he was in elementary school, he and his friends unwittingly made what was effectively a hand-grenade

He was a very smart guy, actually, maybe fifteen years older than me, and had a long successful career as a scientist before he reached retirement age

But in elementary school, he and his friends got to tinkering around with some easily available materials and constructed a little device that they thought would make a pleasing pop. If they'd all been a five or ten years older before getting this bright idea, they'd have shuddered and nixed the scheme. I won't tell you exactly what they did, for fear of inspiring some idiot surfing the internet

Anyway, they put their device into a garbage can: back then, around 1950, garbage cans were heavy galvanized steel, and as kids they assumed this would provide adequate protection. They detonated their invention, which disintegrated with a very loud bang -- and shrapnel from the device went in all directions, punching holes in the galvanized steel garbage can

He told me the story about twenty years after he had conducted that childhood experiment, and I think it still gave him the cold sweats to think what the result might have been if any of them had been hit in the face or neck or chest with some of that shrapnel. Fortunately, none of them was injured

[AnArmyVeteran]

129. When I was seven years old I used a lathe in the Boy's Club.

Most kids today barely know how to turn on a light and even less know how to change a burned out one. I haven't seen a kid or teenager working outside in any neighborhood in ten years. None of them mow their lawns or do outside chores. And not one kid has come by my house to ask to mow my lawn for money. They must all stay inside playing video games and sponging off their parents for money.

The OP is right. Today's kids are mostly clueless and totally inept about working with their hands, hard work, creating something from nothing or able to figure out how to do things that would make them more self sufficient. What kind of parents allow their children to be deadbeats? No wonder there is an obesity problem in this country. When you sit at home eating twinkies, drinking sugar filled sodas, and and playing video games 12 hours a day it'd going to lead to fat kids. If this trend keeps going kids will lose all muscle function and end up like jellyfish-like creatures unable to even move.

I know all kids aren't like this, but to not have one neighborhood kid come by to mow lawns for spending money in over ten years means they are just becoming slugs and parasites while acquiring no talents they will need in life. Shame on the parents who are destroying their children's futures.

[Beartracks]

140. There, I fixed a sentence in the OP.

"He believes parents don’t recognize what is most likely to endanger children (car trips, corn syrup, Republican policies)."

------------------------

[HuckleB]

143. +1