Body armor about to hit the fan- Part II

[cal04]

It's amazing what a little exposure in the corporate media can do. Within a few hours after NBC ran a nice little story during Thursday's Nightly News on the issue of the military’s testing of body armor, as well as on Friday morning's Today show and with Keith Olbermann on Countdown, Senators Hillary Clinton and Jim Webb announced their support of an investigation into the issue.

But Thursday's and Friday's pieces were just teasers; NBC plans to air a much meatier report TODAY, Sunday, on Dateline NBC (airs at 7 p.m. Eastern; check your local listings).

In Thursday's Part 1 of this 2-part diary, we got a quick overview of the issue of the Pentagon’s refusal to perform fair, open tests of a body armor system that might be superior to the Interceptor body armor currently supplied to American troops. We heard of the investigation into the matter begun by Arkansas Congressman Mike Ross, and of the Pentagon’s clumsy attempts to intimidate and bamboozle supporters of the Dragon Skin body armor system.

In today’s installment, we will take a quick look at some of the major players in the Interceptor-versus-Dragon Skin saga and review a few cases of Pentagon Procurement Syndrome, to see whether any conclusions can be drawn from them.


The Curious Case of Col. Norwood

From 2003 until his retirement in the summer of 2006, Col. John C. Norwood was project manager for soldier equipment at Program Executive Officer (PEO) Soldier. As such, he was in charge of testing for body armor.

And as such, Col. Norwood was in charge of the testing of Pinnacle Armor’s Dragon Skin body armor in May 2006. You will remember that that testing was abruptly halted midway through the process without explanation, and never resumed. Had the testing found Dragon Skin to be superior to the standard-issue Interceptor system, Armor Holdings, the lead contractor for Interceptor, might well have seen its huge government contracts for military body armor – contracts which totaled more than $360 million in 2006 alone - disappear overnight.

So – testing cut short, Dragon Skin "off the table," Armor Holdings’ body-armor franchise safe. Just like that.

Col. Norwood retires from the Army a month or two later. Almost immediately, he is hired as a Vice President for the Aerospace & Defense Group of a Very Large Defense Contractor. That Aerospace & Defense Group of that Very Large Defense Contractor happens to manufacture body armor for the U.S. Army.

That Very Large Defense Contractor happens to be - Armor Holdings.

"Wow!" you say. "Shouldn’t something like that be, umm, illegal, or something?" Well, as a matter of fact – something like that is, in fact, illegal.

much more
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/20/16826/2793

[Richard Steele]

1. K&R

[seemslikeadream]

2. Col. Norwood

you are

let me change that to


SCUM

[jgraz]

3. When are we going to start using the "T"-word for shit like this

That would be "treason".

[tblue37]

4. Aren't there laws still on the books that make war profiteering treason? (eom)

[seemslikeadream]

5. I don't recall

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. HA!

:evilgrin:

[DemReadingDU]

6. Seems like our troops should be wearing Dragon Skin

[formercia]

7. I just watched the segment on the testing

I thought the Dragon Skin fared much better and produced less blunt-force trauma from the impact where rounds didn't penetrate than Interceptor.

I think the reason Interceptor was chosen is that the company that makes it must be a big GOP donor.

[dmost]

8. body armor

I've been deployed twice to Iraq. Once in 2003 to 2004 and 2005 2006. in 2003 we deployed with our fraq vests, the same ones I wore during the first Iraq war. We deployed in Apr 03 we got the Interceptor vest in July of 03. In Sep of 03 during checkpoint operations I got shot in the chest with a 9mm, it knocked me down but no damage was done to my person. I have nothing but the best to say about Interceptor Armour except in is heavy.

[formercia]

9. Big difference between a 9mm pistol round

and a 7.62x51 API. The Dragon skin took six without failing.

I'm glad you're ok.

[dmost]

11. Interceptor will take a 7.62

I've seen it. The main difference is in the weight

[formercia]

15. The interceptor failed to stop one of the rounds in the test

The Dragon skin took all six.

The 9mm is 115 grains at 1100 FPS or therabouts and the 7.62x51 is 147 grains at about 2700 FPS. The 9mm is a copper jacketed lead core which will flatten on impact and the 7.62x51 has a hardened alloy penetrator.

You should watch the test segment. It convinced me. If I had a choice, I wouldn't even think twice about using Dragon Skin.

[FogerRox]

13. Video Lisa Meyers NBC bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTrTrsJu3pk

2 part video on dragon skin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYaSRIbPWkM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_HRQNd84ZA&mode=related&search=

556, 762, 9mm , dozens of rounds in total, then a frag grenade. Let me ask you this, look at how the Dragon skin seems to fit better, it seems to curve around the ribs @ the side of the torso, better.

141 rounds total, from ak47 & 9mm. Ball ammo, is that full metal jacket?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDWvldHUPU

[formercia]

17. ball ammo = FMJ

Standard military issue or equivalent.

Some of the newer issue rounds use a bonded-core bullet that doesn't fragment as easily and penetrates better. I tested some of the Olympic(greek) 7.62x63 (30-06) bonded core fmj and it had a lot more punch than the older type with a copper jacket swaged over a lead core.

[FogerRox]

24. Right, ......I thought this was impressive:

141 rounds total, from ak47 & 9mm. Ball ammo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDWvldHUPU

[sanskritwarrior]

27. Same here bro

The SF guys wear the Dragon skin buy it themselves and I've seen more penetrated Dragonskin vests than I have Interceptor vests. I have nothing but good things to say about mine either.......One of my soldiers got 2 7.62mm rounds in his back interceptor plate and he walked away with 2 cracked ribs........I've never worn a dragonskin, I don't plan on doing so, but I know the SF guys that have come in wounded to the FOB that were wearing the Dragonskin were more jacked up than my guys that wore Interceptors.......If however this guy committed a crime, then yes he should march his happy ass off to jail.......

[Lil Missy]

22. Yep, that's what I concluded too after watching the segment

Better to protect a GOP donor than protect the troops. :eyes:

[Crabby Appleton]

10. some information on the military tests

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003504.html

[karlrschneider]

12. Interesting but why was it banned 2 months before the testing was done?

I don't have a dog in this fight but it's clear somebody is lying.

[FogerRox]

14. NBC video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTrTrsJu3pk

2 part video on dragon skin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYaSRIbPWkM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_HRQNd84ZA&mode=related&search=

141 rounds total, from ak47 & 9mm. Ball ammo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKDWvldHUPU

[Imagevision]

16. And again, the Army stops testing/comparing armor to ensure contracts go to war contractor

however, the CIA elite of course all use Dragon skin for max protection and our troops are forbidden to purchase their own dragon skin brand for protection stating it MUST be approved by the Army which it is not.

Our government is looking more evil & sinister with each passing day that brings forth more truth.

[Rob H.]

18. It was telling that one of the designers of the Interceptor

body armor said that if he were going into combat in Iraq or Afghanistan, he would want Dragon Skin body armor. That's one bombshell (excuse the pun) that should be mentioned, too, imo.

[w8liftinglady]

19. this story inspired my latest ltte

As we prepare to celebrate Memorial Day,where we mourn those who have given all for our country,yet another case of war profiteering at our troops' expense evolves.
From 2003-2006,Col.John Norwood was Project manager for soldier equipment for the Pentagon.As such,he was responsible for testing body armor used by our troops in Iraq.
At that time,Pinnacle Armor's Dragon Skin body armor testing was abruptly halted,and has never resumed.The exclusive contract went to Armor Holdings,creator of Interceptor body armor.Armor Holdings received 360 million dollars in contracts in 2006 alone.Col. Norwood retired in 2006,and was hired as Vice President for Aerospace and Defense contracts of a large government contractor....Armor Holdings.Subsequent testing has shown Dragon Skin to be far superior to Interceptor body armor,and is actually used by most of the FBI,CIA,and White House staff.Meantime,mothers of deployed soldiers are holding fundraisers to raise the money to buy the superior body armor for their sons and daughters deployed in Iraq.
Let's just add this to a long list of businesses who have the blood of our soldiers on their hands-Halliburton,KBR,Blackwater...all businesses who have become fabulously wealthy as our president rejects a 3% raise for our troops,as our government continues to run this war on the cheap,as the troop death toll mounts with no end in sight,as our veterans of this war are ignored,as their families suffer silently.This is how we honor our troops,America?Does this offend you?Contact your Congressman,Joe Barton,and your Senators,Kay Bailey-Hutchison and John Cornyn,and insist they investigate these treasonous acts against our troops.Your silence indicates your approval of this.There was a time when America would not have stood for this.What has happened to us?

[Cobalt Violet]

20. It was on nbc this morning too.

:kick:

[dogday]

21. Banned the Dragon Skin in March and did not test

until May.... :wtf:

[Hunter_1253]

23. I've been following this story..

and once again it seems cronie capitalism is more important then the life of a soldier. Classic example of labeling a product as substandard without actually giving it a fair test and then being caught up in their own lie.

[jmowreader]

25. The Army has released the test results

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/21/AR2007052101297.html

As expected, they're really bad. Not for Dragon Skin, but for the army.

According to the Army, 13 of 48 armor-piercing rounds either "shattered the ceramic discs that make up the armor" (as opposed to shattering the whole plate, as happens when the Interceptor is hit) or passed through the armor plate. Note they don't tell you how many of the thirteen hits went through. Note the army is counting penetrations in places on the plate not rated by the manufacturer as "rifle defeating." (The test used armor-piercing rounds fired out of either an AK-47 or an M-14.)

Now here's where the shit gets weird: The Dragon Skin vest the Army tested weighed 47.5 pounds, as opposed to the Interceptor's 28. The Dragon Skin vest Pinnacle Armor actually sells weighs seventeen--and that's the "level four" vest, the one that will stop tank rounds and shit.

Which leads me to wonder: exactly WHAT were they testing?

[FogerRox]

26. Yeah right, still doesnt make sense....

[TX-RAT]

28. Dragon Skin also failed the temperature test.

The adhesive was failing.

[jmowreader]

29. I found out even more about the testing...

The ammunition used for the test was...well, interesting, to say the least.

The army got a can of 7.62MM NATO M-61 Armor Piercing rounds for the M-60 machinegun. They extracted the bullets from these cartridges and reloaded them into .30-06 brass. Anyone caught on the battlefield with this stuff would be considered a war criminal because of his use of non-approved ammunition, but that's beside the point.

I have to question the temperature variation, too. Said the Army, a swing from -25°F to +125°F simulates what would happen if you loaded a set of Dragon Skin on an airplane and flew it to the Middle East. Is this the cargo hold of a civilian airliner we're talking about? In that case, okay...but not on an Air Force cargo plane--the Air Force isn't into misery like the Army and Marines are. The Air Force has a heater and an air conditioner in their planes.