Those of you who are calling for Meek to drop out of the race in FL have really crossed the line.

[Dappleganger]

Ken Meek EARNED the right to be in this race and while he may not win, just because he is behind in the polls does not mean he should quit just to please you. Many of you calling for this don't even live in this state.

What you are calling for is SHAMELESS. It is IRRESPONSIBLE. It is REPREHENSIBLE.

There are always winners and losers but you have NO IDEA who will really win until every vote is counted. Ken Meek did not create the 3-pary situation we are in today, but the republicans created it. What you are betting against is just how many moderate democrats and independents will vote for Crist. But no matter, the FL democratic party is represented in this race and he is OUR GUY. He earned the right to be there during the state primaries. If you don't like OUR GUY, then next time vote for someone different...but he is OUR GUY today and needs our support.

SO JUST STOP IT. Stop this anti-democratic madness of supporting the Lieberman-of-the-month because we all know exactly what that will get us.

[meowomon]

1. I support Meek 100%

But I have to do what I think is the right thing for Florida and vote for the other guy who can win against the teabagger rethuglican. Sorry, but that is what I MUST do to keep a teabagger from winning.

[still_one]

4. As an observer from another state I can understand your position, and it has to do with reality

I also understand the OP of the thread, and it has to do with idealism

The question is who are the independents going to vote for. If the majority of independents are voting for meek then it is simple

Personally I believe we should do everything to prevent a teabagger winning that state

[Dappleganger]

So you believe that calling for the Democrat Meek to drop out of the race

is best.

I know there are people on this forum who will vote for Crist. Who I am challenging are those who are calling Meek out to quit the race.

[still_one]

24. I did not say that. What I will say is either Meek or chris have to drop out, and if neither does

then we will lose, unless the Democratic and independent voters unite

[Zhade]

143. This is what DU gets for violating their own rules.

Seems they're starting to wake up to what they've unleashed by allowing DUers to break the longstanding rule against third-party advocacy, too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9292106&mesg_id=9292271

While we are permitting some advocacy for Crist in this race, we feel that actually encouraging the Democratic candidate to drop out of the race really crosses the line and is inconsistent with the goals of this site.

cbayer
DU Moderator

Anyone could have seen that allowing this rule to be broken, in a staggering double standard that benefits a conservative like Crist but is upheld against anyone more liberal, would lead to people actively calling for the Dem candidate to drop out in favor of Crist.

Frankly, I'm disgusted at the reasoning that Meek can't win. Of course he can't win when people support Crist over him! It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, one this recent Crist-advocacy allowed by DU has enabled.

Skinner et al set up the rule for a reason. Now we see why. When people are advocating for someone who said Palin is qualified to be president (are you fucking kidding me?!) over the decent Dem they could instead be rallying the troops for, something is really wrong.

[tnlefty]

148. Along with many other rules, about ciivility, no name calling, no

genuine personal attacks, etc.

[still_one]

161. First of all I didn't advocate who to vote for, and if YOU are bothered by my comment, ALERT the

moderator.

What I did say is that I can understand BOTH points of view.

[scentopine]

165. the extreme centrists are right wingers who are uncomfortable with the tea baggers

so they come here and whine all day and all night so that their right wing neo-con agenda can carry forward in the new "realistic" democratic party. Just like a sociopathic control freak looks for a victim with low self esteem, the right wing would be Reagan republicans are here on DU teaching us how to be more republican and they call it realistic.

Fuck that shit. Extremism in any of its forms is no way to govern - and that includes the extreme "center" which is a cover word for the new republican. Tea baggers have moved the end game so far to the right that Nixon looks like a goddamn liberal. Eisenhower would be called a communist. FDR - well he is Satan.

[Jamastiene]

178. I still don't get the reasoning for allowing support for Crist. n/t

[tavalon]

31. Actually, the quickest way to stop that discussion

(and I rarely advocate stopping any discussion) is to alert. We on this list have far more latitude than people pretend to have but to advocate against a Democrat is against the rules here. Alert and it will end.

[Dappleganger]

32. I have been alerting every one.

Anyone who mentions that Ken Meek should drop out of the race or is being irresponsible by not dropping out, I am alerting on that post. I don't alert on people who just say they are voting for Crist.

It's not ended.

[tavalon]

44. I'm sorry

[meowomon]

49. I know

It pains me deeply to vote for Crist. I mean so fucking deeply!!! But, I just can't let a teabagger win. It would kill me to have Rubio as my senator. And let's not forget that Crist was a RINO! He will probably caucus with the Dems and vote for most of our ideas. He is against off shore drilling and vetoed a bill that would increase class sizes in Florida. He supported our president too.

I hope if he does win, that he changes the "I" to a "D".

[Dappleganger]

62. You think that he will caucus with the dems

but he has continued to refuse to commit to that even in his last tv debate.

[Bluenorthwest]

87. He endorsed McCain Palin in 2008, no our President

and he stood on stage with Mooselini chanting 'drill here, drill now' on national TV. An odd thing for an Obama supporting opponent of off shore drilling to do, really.
http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2010/05/flashback-charlie-drill-here-drill-now-crist.html

[TwentyFive]

114. I will probably vote for Crist too. It's the smart (but smelly) thing to do.

I would love to vote for Meek. If things change over the next month, then maybe I will.

Crist is right wing. But Rubio is reich wing.

[Mojorabbit]

129. +100 nt

[onehandle]

157. Saying that Meek should drop out is not against any rule.

That's why those suggesting it have not been deleted.

If you advocate for Crist or Rubio, that's another story.

[quakerboy]

100. Personally, I'd say that everything we are doing

in even giving Crist the time of day has only gone to cement a teabagger victory.

[K8-EEE]

16. No you don't, 100%? Not if you don't vote for him!

At best you support him 50% (mouth) and Crist 50% (vote) and any pol only cares about the latter.

IT'S KIND OF ZERO PERCENT REALLY if Crist gets your vote you support HIM 100%! Votes talk and bullshit walks.

[meowomon]

50. Don't be so literal.

Ever heard of a figure of speech?

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

63. O so now the Party Uberalles people won't even vote for the winning progressive Dem

"because they have to vote against the Tea Party."

Gosh, I'm beginning to think the Tea Party benefits no one more than the conservative Dems whose goal is to be the New Republican Party.

[Codeine]

82. +1 nt

[Dragonfli]

96. They won't vote for him because he is not conservative enough for the new Corporate Dem party

The same reason people are allowed to break the rules and advocate against the Dem.
Things are becoming clearer each day, now stop your whining and vote for the corporate Independent, just as you must stop your whining and vote for the most corporate of fake dems against your own interests. Anything else would be "irresponsible".

[blondeatlast]

104. +2. nt

[Codeine]

79. Not voting for him = 0% support by definition. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

83. Crist endorsed Palin as worthy of being President

And stood on national TV with her chanting 'drill baby drill'. To the rest of the country, he is a Tea Bagger, you are picking between two Bagging, Palin loving Republicans.
In politics, support is a vote. If you are not giving yours to Meek, you are not supporting him an iota, much less 100%. At least be honest about it.

[quakerboy]

101. Looks from the outside all that is happening with crist

is the cementing of a TP victory. Crist poaches voters from Meeks at the left, And then turns over voters to Rubio on the right. Which means Rubio is the only one gaining ground as we abandon the Democrat.

Ya'll in Florida gotta do what you gotta do. But its heartbreaking to watch you from the outside.

[flvegan]

2. DUers are calling for Meek to drop out?

Missed that one.

[Mojambo]

3. Is that even allowed by DU rules? n/t

[Luminous Animal]

8. Apparently, an exception has been made for Florida. Meek is the sole Democrat in the entire US that

we are allowed to advocate against.

[Dappleganger]

9. And what did Mr. Meek do WRONG?

NOTHING. Except that people don't like his name, don't know who he is or think that he isn't a strong candidate.

But he WON the democratic primary. I guess that doesn't mean much on this forum.

Now I hate Rubio and believe he's Jebbie's demon spawn, but I will be damned if we should tell Mr. Meek to drop out because we are willing to sell our soul to the devil to keep the devil at bay.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. It isn't Meek that did anything wrong, just meek Democrats...

shaking in fear of Rubio.

[flamingdem]

39. Meek is not that outstanding and Dems have good reason to fear a Rubio win nt

[Ozymanithrax]

92. I am aware that Meek is not the best possible Candidae...

But he would be better than Rubio or Crist.

Right now, I'm betting that Rubio will win because Crist atractes mostly independents while splitting the Democratic vote. Of course Crist, a life long Republican, may win with Democratic votes. He will call himself bipartisan and vote with Republicans.

It could not work better for Republican Conservatives if they planned it this way.

[Unvanguard]

56. Meek did nothing wrong. It has nothing to do with him.

He's a fine candidate and a fine person, by all appearances. That is not the problem.

The problem is that Florida is a Republican-leaning state, 2010 is an election cycle that is looking very bad for Democrats, and the polling evidence overwhelmingly indicates that Meek has virtually no shot at victory. Further, most importantly, it is a three-way election in which Meek is solidly behind both of the other two candidates, and one of the candidates who leads him is substantially preferable to the other candidate who leads him. The best viable option hence does not involve voting for Meek. Not because he is a bad candidate, or because he wouldn't make a good Senator, but simply because he has no hope of winning and is not a serious competitor to Rubio.

[Lost-in-FL]

117. Bingo! nt

[Odin2005]

95. it apparently "unity" only matters when it comes to screwing the Left.

[Dappleganger]

5. Yes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4569136&mesg_id=4569158
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4570321&mesg_id=4570478

These are the two most recent, but it has been happening for several days now.

[SoFlaJet]

60. no

There was a rumor on local TV that he might-he denied it.

[Grown2Hate]

6. I don't disagree with you. And I even recommended your post.

But I seriously think we're underestimating just HOW BAD Rubio is going to be. And not just as Senator (which will be bad enough), but for whatever he's using this electoral win to propel him toward (President Rubio!? Shoot me now). I do not live in Florida, and frankly, would have a VERY tough time deciding between Crist and Meek (not because I like Crist or because Meek is a bad candidate, but simply because I don't pragmatically think he has any chance of winning at this point, and Crist is quite literally the lesser of two evils up against Rubio). However, that being said, if Meek is still in at the end, I'd HAVE to vote for him (because the anti-Rubio vote would be split anyhow, and I'd be able to sleep at night knowing I voted for the best candidate).

[csziggy]

19. Frankly as a Floridian, I don't see that Crist would be that much better than Rubio

Just because he is a hair less conservative than Rubio, does not make him a good candidate for a senator in my state, IMO. While Rubio was in charge of the Florida legislature, Crist let him piss around with the fate of Florida and signed off on many of the absurd bills Rubio's coalition put together and rammed through the legislature. Crist did absolutely nothing to ameliorate the damage that Rubio and his cohorts did to the state - he aided and abetted it.

I've been wondering if the whole thing with Crist dropping out of the Republican race and getting in as an Independent was designed to split the independent and Democratic votes just to get Democrats to vote against Meek. Why are we letting them play games like this? No wonder the Democratic Party is leaning more conservative, we can't stick with our own candidates and want to open the door to assholes like Crist.

It will be a cold fucking day in hell before I vote for any Republican, even if they are not currently running with a R behind their name. And believe me, Crist is a Republican, even if he is pretending to not be in favor with the party this cycle.

[inna]

34. What you said, exactly.

(Not a Floridian, but I feel exactly the same way about this matter.)

[flamingdem]

42. Do you realize that Rubio is insanely right wing and teaparty? nt

[csziggy]

47. But Crist did not differ enough from Rubio to try to limit Rubio in the legislature

As I said, Crist might be a hair less conservative than Rubio, but that is not enough for me to consider Crist a viable candidate for my vote.

[Chan790]

127. You do realize that once he gets to Washington...

Rubio's going to have 2 choices? Moderate at least far enough to play ball with the mainstream GOP or remain the guy he campaigned as and alienate himself from the leadership. I can't say very many nice things about Mitch McConnell but I can say this...he isn't going to put up with Rubio's shit as a junior 1st term senator for 30 seconds before assigning him to whatever committee would be the biggest ego-check. Maybe something having to do with forestry, perhaps...I'm sure Rubio can do a great deal of good for Floridians there since Florida is chock full of old-growth forests. Ironically, either choice is going to destroy whatever ambitions he has upward as his rabid loonie supporters aren't going to accept a mainstreamed or castrated Senator Rubio. That goes for just about all the Tea Party nuts: Angle, O'Donnell, Miller, Rubio, etc. Moderate or politically-die.

Nope, I see very little difference between the way Rubio will serve and Crist...Crist because that's who he really is and Rubio because it's the box he's going to be shoved into.

If I was a Floridian, I'd be voting Meek. If he wasn't viable, I'd be working my ass off to make him viable.

[creeksneakers2]

154. If the tea party candidates win a bunch of seats

they'll form a caucus and be very powerful. Mitch McConnell won't be able to control them. Anyway, there isn't really much of a RINO presence in DC to oppose the tea party candidates. The insiders only moderate as much as they think they need to to win. If the tea party candidates successfully get elected, that will change the equation of how much moderation is needed to very little. Its already established that moderate Republicans are vulnerable to primary challenges. I see McConnell becoming like Rubio, not the other way around.

[Fla_Democrat]

43. Whut? Not 'ol Chain gang Charlie

How can anyone not love that weathervane Son of a Gun? :sarcasm:

http://floridainnocence.org/content/?p=705

Maybe he can do for the country what he has done for the state...... :eyes:

[blondeatlast]

105. About splitting the indy vote--I think you've nailed it and I see Crist's race as a trial balloon

for the GOBP.

[TwentyFive]

109. I'm in FL voting against Rubio.

Right now that means I will hold my nose really tight...and choose Crist.

Rubio is the worst of Jesse Helms, Dubya and Nixon all rolled into one.

[H2O Man]

7. Recommended.

Ken Meek will win if enough democrats vote for him. I find it repulsive when people here talk about voting for a republican who is donning another hat for the election.

[ruggerson]

10. recommended n/t

[The Northerner]

11. K&R

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. We should have expected this move when we learned that the trial lawyers

were behind Crist. Calculated to the point where they've lost their humanity.

[iamjoy]

13. I Don't Like Meek

I don't really like Kendrick Meek. I don't like the way he got his Congressional seat. There's hints of corruption attached to him, but then, Marco Rubio isn't exactly squeaky clean either. So, the one who seems the least corrupt/most "clean" is Charlie Crist.

Charlie Crist. Oh sure, he sounds a lot like a Democrat now, but 18 months ago he was touting his Conservative credentials. Now he implies he will probably caucus with the Democrats, but if the Republicans gain control of the Senate, he will probably go back over to them.

It amazes me that any Liberal could trust Charlie Crist to vote their interests.

[still_one]

27. First of all why would anyone trust ANY politician? However, I would suspect the voters should be

concerned with which candidate would be better for their state

[iamjoy]

77. And That's What It Is

I have solid Democratic principles - I am Pro-Choice. I believe Gays should have the same rights as every other American. I believe in Capitalism, but don't believe the free-market always works perfectly. We need to have a way to make sure corporations are producing products that are safe without polluting our environment or exploiting workers (since they won't do it on their own). I believe people are poor because of bad circumstance, not laziness. Likewise, success may be the result of luck as well as hard work. I believe healthcare is a shared responsibility by society. If necessary, the boost for the less fortunate to have an equal shot at success should be funded by those most able to afford it.

I don't believe Democrats always fulfill this promise. Too many Democrats have become dependent on corporations and wealthy/powerful special interests to help fund their campaigns. But I know I have a better shot with a Democrat than with a Republican. I know I have a better shot with a lifelong Democrat than some one whose switch to left-leaning Independent seems curiously timed.

I'll vote for Meek.

[Ozymanithrax]

14. Fear is such a terrible thing...

It will even drive progressives Democrats to vote for a Republican.

Crist, by spliting Democrats is winning this race for Rubio, and progressive Democrats will help him.

[DonCoquixote]

17. I wonder how many

Of the Crist supporters are the same people that are creaming over the idea of Hillary 2012.

[meowomon]

51. Not I. I still support our president.

[Cleobulus]

76. until a third party spoiler shows up. n/t

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DonCoquixote]

21. You want the REAL answer?

Gee, is it any accident that the Florida democratic party put it's full support towards Alex Sink, and ignored the Senate Race. Granted, Rick Scott must not be allowed near the Governor's mansion, but you will see a lot of the same names and faces that were so angry that Hillary Lost. Florida is PUMA Central!

And the truth is, that while Rubio must be defeated (and oh yes, he must) A crist victory will sell the meme that only "centrist" types can win, and by centrist, they really mean white former republican baby boomers. And yes, this will send messages for the Dems to move right, again, especially if Hillary does replace Biden in 2012, because at that point, the message will be "we are strong because we told the left to go to hell!"

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[meowomon]

52. I am SO not a blue dog

Just a Floridian who doesn't want a teabagger senator.

[suzie]

134. That's some silly stuff when one considers that Kendrick Meek was one of Hillary's biggest

supporters in Florida until the very end of her campaign.

Sink is a great campaigner, something that I've never heard about Meek.

People were considering her a candidate for Governor before 2008--and that included those of us who supported Obama.

[AtomicKitten]

48. Jeez, this isn't a racial thing.

If Meek's poll numbers were the same as Crist's, OF COURSE Democrats would support him unequivocally and without hesitation.

But his numbers are not good and watching the polling for the last several months he has consistently been in third place.

Your suggestion that this a racial thing is unwarranted and, quite frankly, dangerously provocative shit-stirring. On edit, I also am pretty disgusted with your characterization of people that don't agree with you.

I haven't seen anybody call for Meek to drop out; not saying it hasn't happened, just that it isn't prevalent. I have seen people express their opinion on the race, however. It's all pretty much academic at this point because it's almost certainly too late to organize strategic voting.

My opinion? Foremost I really, really don't want a Senator Teabagger from Florida. Since Meek has consistently inhabited third place, I'd throw my vote to Crist as a strategic vote against the teabagger. But that's my 2-centsworth from California.

We'll have to wait and see how Florida sorts out this mess.

[Ken Burch]

20. I've started a counter-thread to the anti-Meek types here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9288835

[Gman]

23. No... you're wrong. Meeks needs to drop out

I don't care what Meeks "earned. Crist would likely caucus with the Democrats. Just because Meeks won a primary doesn't give him the right to give the seat to the republics. He was obviously not the Democrat that can win this seat. Since Crist would caucus with the Democrats, this is not anti-Democratic. It's just smart politics.

I am so sick and tired of the progressive mantra and love of going down in flames for their principles and all that crap while screwing it up for everyone else. It's nothing short of naive, much less stupid.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gman]

33. LOL! Don't pick and choose what you want to quote and suggest freeperland

The correct quote from my post should be "the progressive mantra and love of going down in flames". Yes, progressives love to go down in flames. They love to lose elections because they rarely win one anyway. So while the rest of us are trying to win elections and put Democrats into Congress, you can go lose elections elsewhere.

That was a pretty piss poor redirect.

[Dappleganger]

36. No, what is piss poor is your insisting that Crist will caucus with the democrats.

Without posting one SHRED of evidence that he will. At the same time you are pissing over good democrats in this state who want to vote for our guy.

BTW, do you live in this state? I do and I care what happens not just now, but also in the future for our party. For Meek to throw in the towel before an election would be absolutely devastating to this state's democratic party. But then again I suspect by what you've written so far that you don't care.

[readmoreoften]

67. That's the crazy thing I've ever heard. Now PRIMARIES DON'T COUNT?

No wonder why the Democratic Party is funding the Tea Baggers in New Jersey. You people used to vote for anyone who didn't have a D after their name. Now you'll vote for the most person likely to beat someone with a TP behind their name.

Is this how you SQUANDER Obama's win? With fearmongering, hysteria, and divisiveness? "Anyone but Bush" didn't work. Why do you think "Anyone but the TP" will work? Don't you people learn from history?

[Dappleganger]

69. Well said!

[Gaedel]

86. If Crist wanted our support

He should have run in the Democratic primary.

If he had beaten Meek there, he would be entitled to our unequivocal support.

[SoCalDem]

91. I don't think he could have...and he's basically trying to thread the needle

By claiming to be independent, he hopes to hang onto the saner republicans who do not like Rubio, and would NEVER vote for a dem...and with a wink & a nod, he hoped to claim the dem voters who know in their hearts that Meek could not beat Rubio.

As a stealth candidate, Crist hoped to win just enough in a three-way race to beat Rubio. While he would probably NOT declare himself a dem, once elected, he would probably have caucused with the dems because of the shabby way republicans treated him..

I think Kendrick Meeks is a fine young man, but it may not yet be "his time"..Perhaps after 2-3 terms of Rubio,the magnifico, he will challenge again, but when one is off the national stage, it's hard to command much attention. Meeks may have jumped in too soon, and maybe should have stayed in the house a while longer, to gain some national status...especially since his congressional races he won 4 times were unopposed.

[blondeatlast]

106. Indeed. nt

[Dragonfli]

97. You are breaking the rules and appear also to prefer Republicans.

I think it is in poor taste, at least I would respect you if you advocated for a progressive Ideals Democrat or green over a republican pretending to be a Democrat, but this , this is just tacky.

[BlueJazz]

136. Yep...I agree Gman. I plan to vote for Crist because, frankly ..voting for Meeks..

....IS the same as voting for Rubio.
Meeks is so far down in the polls it's a pipe-dream to think he has any chance of victory.
Meeks is pulling 2.4 MILLION votes less than Rubio.
The chance of Meeks winning is about the same as a Plow Horse running against a Horse like Secretariat. :)

[Gman]

167. Or Sham in the Belmont!

[flamingdem]

25. PLEASE provide a link or links where people state Meek should drop out nt

[Dappleganger]

26. See reply #5

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9288747&mesg_id=9288777

[Dappleganger]

30. And here's another one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4570321&mesg_id=4570518

[flamingdem]

35. Opinions but I don't see anyone advocating for Meek to quit the race

Is there one saying that? I think Democrats are smart to vote for Crist because he has a chance to win unlike Meek. But I think Meek is valid candidate, just not the one we need against a very bad candidate who is Teaparty and can do a lot of damage.

As I've written elsewhere Meek is not perfect at all. In the case of US relations with Cuba for instance he takes the right wing line and takes money from the right wing Cuban PAC. Crist is in favor of lifting travel restrictions to Cuba. In many areas Crist is like a democrat, pick your poison.

[Dappleganger]

38. Those are DU'ers saying that Meek should quit.

Please read the entire thread.

No, Meek isn't perfect by ANY means but he is needs our support. To demand that he throw in the towel before an election even takes place would be absolutely devastating to the democratic party here in FL. We are weak enough as it is.

And while Crist may say some things that you like, and has thrown us a few bones, he has given absolutely NO indication that he will caucus with the democrats. Even in the last debate he effectively evaded that question, as usual. If Crist was a real democrat he would have signed up with the party and he has not done that.

[flamingdem]

41. 1. Are you from Florida? 2. Do you agree with the reason why some people might want to defeat Rubio?

Be sincere. This is not a clear cut race. We need a Floridian who can enlighten on this thread because in the end it's their problem.

No one wants Meek out of the race though they might opine that it would be nice to win the race, and that's probably the most straightforward way to do so. Dems don't want him out, specifically because he will help bring out the Democratic vote. Ask a Floridian.

[DonCoquixote]

45. I am from Florida

And yes, I understand that Rubio would be toxic.

However, not having a party at all to the left would also be toxic. I am not saying for sure what I would do, because I know this will go down to the wire, but I also know that the Florida Democratic party cannot expect to have former GOp do their job. Yes, Crist was an AWFUL, very right wing Governor, and the facts he threw dogbones while he was forced out does not mean much. I do not want someone who chanted "Drill Baby Drill" with Palin.

[Dappleganger]

61. We have lived here in FL

since 2001. That's 9 years and we're not going anywhere at this time.

Yes, I understand we need to defeat Rubio. This state has significant party problems as well as being completely overtaken by extremist, right-wing nutjobs. But I am not of the mind that we need to sell our soul to the devil to keep them at bay, so to speak.

WRT the last paragraph, there are people who want Meek out of the race on this board and are quite vocal about it. I know if Meek drops out of the race that there are people I am working with now to get others to vote who will stay at home and not vote, period. Some will vote for Crist as but many will just not participate.

I am a Floridian, you may ask me. We have to live with the results not just this year, but for many years after.

[inna]

58. uh, how about two posts above yours in this very thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9288747&mesg_id=9288850

pretty revolting post, imo.

[Dappleganger]

64. Yes, one needs to read the whole thread.

When it becomes a challenge to keep up with them all then something is clearly wrong.

[Eyerish]

29. K&R

It's shameful.

[GReedDiamond]

37. Absolutely K&R...nt

[Blue_In_AK]

40. We've got the same issue up here Dappleganger,

Democrats and left-leaning Independents planning to write in Lisa Murkowski because they're so afraid of Joe Miller -- when we have a perfectly good Democratic candidate who earned his position in the primary. It pisses me off greatly.

[Ken Burch]

53. And, for anyone who's got a few bucks they don't know what to do with

Here's the link to that perfectly good Democrat, Scott McAdams:

https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/scottmcadams

[Blue_In_AK]

57. I really like him a lot.

We finally met him Thursday night at the taping of Shannyn's TV show. I'm starting to think he's really got a shot at this.

[Dappleganger]

66. Yes you do.

It's a live clusterfuck anyway you look at it.

:hug:

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Unvanguard]

54. Your post makes no attempt whatsoever to deal with the basic reality of the situation.

You clearly have a deep-seated commitment to a particular point of view, and are not going to abandon it whatever anyone else says. Fine: I doubt I could change your mind. But please don't rationalize it to yourself by criticizing people who disagree.

[Dappleganger]

68. Yes, I have a deep-seated commitment to left-wing democratic values.

If you want to hold that against me than knock yourself out. And will criticize anyone who purports to call themselves a democrat but acts otherwise. If you don't like it that is too bad.

[Unvanguard]

78. This doesn't have anything to do with left-wing Democratic values either way.

It has to do with trying to do what good you actually can do, versus steadfastly standing behind a failed effort long after it's clear it has failed.

There is nothing left-wing or Democratic (or democratic, I don't know if your lower-case was intentional) about throwing away your vote.

[Zhade]

55. This double standard of allowing support for Crist is damaging DU.

What would happen if Meek pulled ahead of Crist? Would people still be allowed to support Crist here?

This is why we have rules -- so situations like this don't happen.

It's utterly ridiculous that DU is allowing this shit.

[inna]

59. hey, we're not supposed to ever question such things...

but I fully agree.

[readmoreoften]

70. The reality is: this is an "anti-teabagger" site now. It doesn't stand for anything.

Hell, the only Dems I'd vote for in the country--with all the pissing and moaning about GOTV that goes on here--are the ones they abandon to "beat the Tea Party."

They'll do anything to win--even abandon the fricking party they claim to be devoted to. In other words, they don't have a plan, they don't have a clue, they just hate teabaggers. And you know what? That's not going to stop the teabaggers. A REAL PLATFORM FOR WORKING PEOPLE and only that will stop the Tea Party.

Ugh. They make me sick.

[Dappleganger]

71. People don't really get just how weak that makes the dems for both now and the future.

When democrats throw in the towel in favor of independents who may or may not beat teabaggers, where does that leave the democrats?

Consider the possible results for not just this election cycle but at least the next two or more.

[blondeatlast]

107. Agreed; one of the few times I think the Admins have made a COLOSSAL error. nt

[xchrom]

65. somebody even managed to drag hillary and pumas into this thread -- and they were serious!

:rofl:

[Lost-in-FL]

122. I know!! What the heck was that about??!!!??

:shrug:

[myrna minx]

73. I find all of the Crist/Republican love disturbing.

:crazy:

[LynneSin]

139. I don't think it's love of Crist and the Republicans but a hatred of Teabagging Rubio

And as someone who has a psycho teabagger running for senate in state I can understand and appreciate the concern about being represented by one.

[Motown_Johnny]

74. it isn't that they don't like our guy. It is just that he has no reasonable chance at winning and

at this point he is doing nothing other than playing spoiler for a more moderate candidate.



Yes he has the right to stay in, he also has the right to drop out and people are simply pointing that out.


If you are happy with Rubio then so be it. That is your choice. Some people would rather he lost no matter what the cost.



Please note that I did not say I support this view, I do understand it though and I disagree with your assertion that it is shameless, irresponsible or reprehensible. From their point of view you are the irresponsible one. Yours is the kind of thinking that threw away votes on Nader in 2000 and helped W. win.

[Dappleganger]

75. Nader was the 3rd party candidate.

Meek won the democratic primary here in FL and is NOT the spoiler. You have become confused with just who are the democrats in this race.

Or perhaps you don't believe in the democratic party at all.

[tomp]

81. winning the dem primary does not entitle a candidate to anyone's vote.

all candidates have earned their right to be on the ballot one way or another.

if a candidate is clearly not going to win, they become the "spoiler" unless they draw votes equally from the two remaining candidates. their continued candidacy effectively supports the candidate they draw fewer votes from. that's just arithmetic.

that doesn't mean i support any candidate withdrawing, unless the candidate thinks that is what is best for the people they seek to represent and the country.

I vehemently oppose the people who say nader lost florida for gore. but one must remain logically consistent. the designation of "spoiler" is pure arithmetic, and has nothing to do with the initial following a candidate's name. the question is: how important is it that either of the two remaining candidate's win? the answer to that question may has as many answers as people answering it.

n.b.: the decision to withdraw does not have to be made today. it can be made closer to the election, in case the lowest polling candidate can make up ground over the next week or two.

[Zhade]

155. "winning the dem primary does not entitle a candidate to anyone's vote." HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT.

I'm saving this for the next time some asshole here demands we shut up and vote the Dem running just because they won the primary.

You can't demand party loyalty out of one side of your mouth while undercutting it out of the other.

[tomp]

182. are you accusing me of demanding party loyalty? nt

[Motown_Johnny]

85. the one who is in 3rd place is the spoiler IMO

[voteearlyvoteoften]

80. I'm calling on Crist to get out

His numbers are dropping like a rock

[blondeatlast]

108. Damn straight. nt

[malaise]

84. +1,000

Unfuggingbelievable. Let Crist drop out- he is no Democrat.

[lovelyrita]

88. As a Florida voter, I agree with the OP.

Why on earth would Democratic voters vote for Crist?

[dionysus]

89. i'm gonna leave this one to the florida voters.

[DevonRex]

93. Yup. And I'm glad I'm not in their shoes.

I do know what game theory dictates, though. :crazy:

[dionysus]

141. why, i'll be near your neck of the woods this week! got any spare truffles, maybe an extra cruise

missile console?

:hi:

[saracat]

90. You are correct . And some of these are the same folks who trash talk Terry Goddard in Arizona

who is one of our most beloved and effectice politcals and is running against Jan Brewer who is the ultimate bagger puppet with SB1070 in her corner. The fact that some wold post negativity against Dem nominees is outrageous.

[Odin2005]

94. Anyone who supports Crist MUST BE TSed according to DU rules.

[Dragonfli]

98. That only happens if you support a progressive, conservatives get more slack here /nt

[dionysus]

142. ROFL, how "purgey" of you!

:rofl:

[Hamlette]

99. this reminds me of the post a couple of days ago about the banker/finacial types

who wondered "will we get caught" but never wondered "is it right or wrong."

Sometimes having the right to do something is not the same as asking "is it the right thing to do."

I don't have a dog in the fight in Florida but it appears Crist is not taking enough votes from Rubio to win or allow Meek to win. Seems like the solution is obvious but will never happen because politicians have too much ego at stake.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

103. I'm Voting For Meek Because Crist Is A Lost Cause And He Has A (D) After His Name

But he has run a lackluster and pitiful campaign. However if the race was tied and Meek was a distant third I would vote for Crist but it isn't.

Anybody who knows Florida politics and I think I do having grown up in Florida, having received a graduate degree in political science from a Florida university , and having worked on statewide campaigns, knows in this political and economic environment, that without Crist siphoning off soft Democrats, independents, and soft Republicans from Rubio Meek would be getting crushed.

Florida is a tough nut for Democrats. That's why only three Democrats have been elected governor and senator in the past thirty years and two of them have been the same person.

[Hamlette]

118. I'm in agreement with your stand

If Crist can't win, I'd vote for Meek too...because of the D

[Hamlette]

119. I'm in agreement with your stand

If Crist can't win, I'd vote for Meek too...because of the D

[DemocratSinceBirth]

121. IMHO, He's A Horrible Candidate, Nice Guy Though, Earnest Too

Before Crist was Tea Bagged he looked like a shoo in. This scared away all the prominent Democrats from a run.

[Lost-in-FL]

124. +1,000 x 1,000

Florida IS NOT a democratic state, people need to be reminded of that. This is the state where Katherine Harris received a 38% of the vote for the senate!!!

It is negligently naive to believe that Meek is going to have any sort of a supernatural chance to win.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

125. I'll Vote For Meek. As A Florida Democrat I'm Used To Voting For Losers

Without Ole Charlie in the race he would be losing by twenty to thirty points.

[Lost-in-FL]

126. Lol!!

I voted for Gore, and against Jeb Bush, against Crist, against Mel Martinez and I voted for Ferre in the FL Senate Dem primary so yes, I know exactly what you mean.

I have my absentee and I am afraid I will turn in my vote right on election day. A lot can still happen in just a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the reminder... I had forgoten about that fact and I will consider this before placing my vote.

[bear425]

102. REAL Democrats would be calling for Crist to drop out.

Doncha know?

[Vickers]

110. Yup....it really is shameful, and should be grounds for immediate suspension. n/t

[bonnieS]

111. my mother voted

absentee for Meek and a lot of her friends have done the same. Let's not disqualify their votes so soon.

I saw Meek the other night. He said that while he was behind ten points in the primary, he won by 13. These polls are just as believeable as the actual machine results.

[Jefferson23]

112. I wonder who from the beginning was supporting Crist from the Democrats side?

Has Obama been campaigning for Meek?

The only issue I recall about Meek was he did not stand out in a big way fighting for teachers
on one issue and Crist was the one who ended up supporting teachers.

I have no idea what impact this may of had for Meek.

[bigwillq]

113. K and R (nt)

[davidwparker]

115. He has the right to run, indeed. However, unless he has

come form 3rd place with a reasonable shot at winning, it is probably more pragmatic to vote for Crist.

But, I can understand how you feel.

[2Design]

116. Meek has my vote - polls are wrong and repub tv is trying to call and sway people again n/t

[blondeatlast]

120. I reserve the right to say "I told you so," as should everyone in this and many other threads

who fully support the DEMOCRATIC candidate.

[madfloridian]

123. Many are crossing the line in "demanding" we vote a certain way.

We are supposed to be able to make our own decisions.

[secondwind]

128. I hear you loud and clear, I've not called for Meek to resign. But I was hoping he or Crist would.

Why? Because having Rubio in the Senate will affect ALL OF US, for a long time, NOT JUST FLORIDIANS.

[pgodbold]

130. I live in Florida. I've never voted for a Republican or Independent in my life and won't start now.

It's Meek win or lose. I will say there will be a real shock when you guys see just how bad Rubio is though.

[IHR]

131. Meek, Grayson, and Sink

have my vote.

[bc3000]

164. They should have run Grayson, He would have won.

[placton]

132. notice the mods permitted those threads

despite the "policy' - which apparently applies only to the left?

[Dappleganger]

133. And

deleted one of my posts which linked to another thread calling for Meek to drop out. And just moments ago another one sprung up. For all I know there are Rubio plants on this forum, one can only guess because they are calling for a dem to drop out?

Yes, I live and vote in FL and CARE.

[RTBerry]

135. SHOUTING has never won me over.

Want to convince me that your opinion has merit? Speak politely. Speak respectfully. Speak with civility.

If I wanted to immerse myself in impolite, uncivil, and discourteous rhetoric, I would join the Tea Party.

-----

As for Kendrick Meek, I find myself in a real pickle. One the one hand, I've voted straight party line all but once during my life. On the other hand, I don't think Kendrick has a snowball's chance of winning, and Rubio is just... well... dangerous.

There's a real danger in casting a vote for Kendrick Meek. Such a vote may well end up helping Rubio get elected. This dilemma has a lot of my friends doing some real soul-searching.

For me , what it finally comes down to is this analysis:

If Kendrick endorses Charlie, almost everyone supporting Kendrick will break for Charlie. Charlie wins.

If Charlie endorses Ken, half will break for Rubio, half for Kendrick. Rubio wins.

But there are not going to be any endorsements, probably.

Kendrick Meek can't win.

So do I want to win: Charlie Crist, or Marco Rubio?

[kratos12]

140. Excellant analysis

The choice is between Crist and Rubio....it's a no brainer...for those who have brains.

[blondeatlast]

144. You have an interesting concept of "politely" and "with respect."

"....it's a no brainer...for those who have brains."

(Just in case you edit)

[Ineeda]

151. This is a perfect analysis

I've struggled with this for months, and still have not 100% made up my mind. Do I cast my vote for Meek and hold my head up proudly? Will this make me feel better when Rubio inevitably takes us further down the rabbit hole? Or do I cast my vote for the only person in the race who might prevent a disastrous Rubio win? Florida politics suck.

[bc3000]

I disagree with just about everything you said.

How exactly did Meek EARN the right to be in this race? He was chosen and handed the nomination by the Florida Democratic party.

He alienated progressives from the beginning of the campaign with his idiotic money wasting NASCAR sponsorship and his criticism of President Obama. He is a borderline blue dog going by his voting record in the House.

He is a crappy candidate and if democrats want decent candidates we can't just blindly vote for whatever bum who's kissed enough butt to be awarded the nomination. And this is the perfect candidate to boycott because he doesn't have a shot in hell anyway. Hopefully he gets less than 20% of the vote so we don't have to worry wasting another election with a Meek candidacy.

[mcollier]

145. UnReal!

Are we to believe a Democrat should vote for a Republican simply because they are scared a Tea Party candidate may win?

Democrats vote for the best candidate who will represent their interests... Not a republican who won't.

Vote for Meeks. Don't be the typical suckered voter.

[bc3000]

162. I am talking specifics. You don't even know the candidate's name

[bc3000]

137. n/t

double post

[Zhade]

138. For the record -- I asked Skinner if Crist could be supported here if Meek pulled ahead.

His answer was one word: no.

I applaud the consistency, at least.

[derby378]

146. Okay, this burns me

I have my problems with Meek, but this man is by no means a Lieberman-style pesudo-Dem who deserves our scorn. He is a credible Democratic candidate who deserves a decent chance at winning the Florida gubernatorial election. For anyone on DU to suggest he should just drop out is completely asinine.

[Dirigo]

152. For The Record Kendrick Meek is Running for U.S. Senator

I will give my full support to Kendrick Meek for U.S. Senator. There is no good logical reason for any smart democrat to cast a vote for anyone else. Meeks is a superb hard workig congressman and he will be a superb U.S. Senator. I hope all Floridians will take a deep breath and not give way to the foolishness to throw their votes away to others.

[derby378]

183. Oops!

Sorry 'bout that. :blush:

[blondeatlast]

153. The Lieberman reference is to Crist. nt

[Iwillnevergiveup]

147. While I don't live in Florida

and have only visited there once, if I did, I'd vote for Meeks. Crist pulled a Lieberman IMO - go Independent to win, but he's a Republican through and through. Granted, Meeks is probably not the best candidate, but Rubio is scary enough to many Republicans that they'll either go for Crist or stay home. And that could be Meeks' opening.

[craigmatic]

149. I like Meek and if the world was fair he'd win but he's got the lowest polls in a 3 way race

if we could get him to drop and get the dems to support Crist we could win that seat and keep those repigs from having it.

[maxomai2]

150. Meh

At this point I think Rubio is going to win the Florida Senate election. If Meek does drop out, I think enough Democrats will decline to vote in that election to make Crist the loser.

But this line:

There are always winners and losers but you have NO IDEA who will really win until every vote is counted.

is pretty much fantasy. Other than Rubio dropping out because of a massive scandal, even the dumb money is on him winning.

[onehandle]

156. Meek will lose no matter what. Senator Rubio?... How about President Rubio? nt

[MrMickeysMom]

159. Meek won't loose if Democrats get to the polls... eom

[bc3000]

163. Yes, actually he would.

Because even if democrats get out to the polls, half of them are going to vote for Crist.

[Vickers]

168. Yeah, if stupid cocksuckers keep encouraging Dems to vote for a Repuke. n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

169. I'm sure you have polling numbers to back this up?

... I won't hold my breath on that, as it's likely to include your number to the psychic network "hotline"


:eyes:

[bc3000]

179. Sure, it's right here

http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/senate/florida

[MrMickeysMom]

158. For crying out loud... Get out and VOTE MEEK!

Lived in FL 30 years, my sister's retired back there now and has met him.

There is no better choice. People cannot choose to hold their nose and vote this or that. If you want to hold your nose do it by supporting Meek. He is in a position to address Florida's colossal problems which are so much worse off than when I left in the mid 90's.

GET BEHIND MEEK, and then STAY INVOLVED! It makes me sick of what Florida has turned into since the days of walking Lawton Chiles.

[stevenleser]

160. Meek is out of money and is probably looking for a way out. Even he knows its over.

He's out of money, he won a debate and THAT didn't move the needle at all. Florida is a huge state and it requires a tremendous amount of money to win a statewide race there. It's over at this point. He has 0% chance of winning. He can deny it all he wants, anyone in his position would now be looking for a way to get out that makes sense for him and the state.

So, what you are asking for is for us to spend time and effort working for a guy who is out of money and has no way to change the dynamic of the race to help himself. No one who is in the position he is in at this point could turn it around. Even if Crist left the race, Meek still has no money and little reputation in the state.

It's really bizarre that some are trying to turn this into some sort of party loyalty pissing contest. It's very straightforward. Nothing here points to the remotest possibility of a Meek victory. That being the case, what is plan B. Simple.

On Edit. The other thing to consider is that Republicans are right at around the 50 senator mark right now. Their high water mark is 51, they have no possibility of getting higher than that as far as the polls now suggest, but they could get to 51. If we seat someone who caucuses with Democrats in Florida, they have no path to taking over the senate. You better think about that.

[bc3000]

166. Good post

I think a lot of the problem around here is people from out of state are commenting on a race they really know nothing about. On the surface, they are right: we should all be out there supporting democrats. But this case is a little different. There's a chance, although right now it looks like a slim chance, that we could defeat a horrible republican in a race that is otherwise unwinnable.

[MrMickeysMom]

170. This is a lame excuse...

Historically, the disengaged Floridian acts as you would predict.

"So, what you are asking for is for us to spend time and effort working for a guy who is out of money and has no way to change the dynamic of the race to help himself."

What a bunch of self-fulfilling prophecy. Get off your ass.

[stevenleser]

171. It is not a "self- fulfilling prophecy" when the candidate is

at 20% and fading with 22 days to go. What is the color of the sky on the planet you live on anyway?

[MrMickeysMom]

181. Same color as your sky is, stevenleser...

I've never seen a group of Democrats who resolve about where they're headed, based on the rate of loss, as we have in this year in this State, regardless of numbers of days to go. I'm not unrealistic about the polling, just the attitude.

That attitude sucks throughout this thread.

[spanone]

172. this am meek made it absolutely clear he is not stepping aside

[ieoeja]

173. Given that neither Crist nor Meek have a chance at this point...

... why would any Democrat bother voting for Crist? Those of you planning to vote Crist know he now has no chance. If you are going to "throw your vote away", wouldn't you rather throw it away on the Democrat?

[bc3000]

180. Yeah, sure

A lot of democrats like Crist, but his real appeal in this race was that he might have a chance of beating Rubio. If he has the same chance of winning as Meek (no chance) then there's really no reason to vote for him over a democrat I guess.

On the other hand, a horrible showing by Meek could potentially cause some much needed self evaluation within the Florida Democratic Party. So I could understand why some might choose to not vote for Meek as a boycott. But if you're in there already voting for Alex Sink, then I'd say you might as well put a check next to Meek's name too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

174. This Thread Is Rich.

People opining on the race who don't know the candidate's name. It's Meek not Meeks. And don't know what office he is running for. He's running for senator not governor.

I will reluctantly vote for him because he has a (D) after his name but he has run a lackluster campaign. He was the Democratic sacrificial lamb because prominent Florida Democratic officeholders thought Crist was a shoo in. He was until until he was Teabagged.

In this political and economic environment without Crist in the race to garner soft Democrats, soft Republicans, and independents Meek would be losing by thirty points. I don't know what's more embarrassing for Florida Democrats. Our candidate coming in third or losing by thirty points.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

175. Does it really matter how much money Meek OR Crist has?

It's Florida. The election will be stolen anyway.

[blondeatlast]

177. You have a point, but that makes a vote for the demonstrably LW politician

even more important.

[mstinamotorcity]

176. You Tell Em

+1,000,000,000