The U.S. is a failed State

[salinen]

Oh I know. There are examples of countries worse than the U.S. But lets just consider a few facts:

- Corporations have lobbied and won the privilege of being compensated for shipping jobs and factories elsewhere.
- Most of congress are completely beholden to their benefactors.
- Obscenely expensive elections favor the corporate interest.
- The chamber of commerce and others have no allegiance to state, only to capital.
- The media is either hard right, or right, with few exceptions.
- The military industrial complex is alive and the only true American industry of any significance.
- Democracy and Capitalism are by nature at odds. Capitalism is winning.
- The Treasury was recently robbed by banks, insurance, and Wall street. Nothing for the unconnected.
- The most people incarcerated per capita.
- The most homicides per capita.
- The most murders per capita.
- A failing education system.
- A failing infrastructure.
- Damaged social safety system.
- Health care failure. Too expensive. Get really sick and file bankruptcy or decline the needed procedure.
- A popular explosion of anti-intellectualism.
- A viable movement toward fascism (tea party) and away from progressivism (no movement).
- A surveillance state. You're on camera!

I could go on.

[stray cat]

1. I have some friends who would like to trade citizenship with you

[Cal33]

14. I think what he is trying to show is that whatever freedoms and

good we are still enjoying are from the past, and even these are being
gradually taken away from us. I kinda agree.

Someone in this forum has recently put it so aptly: Those who are thinking
in terms of right and left are already behind the times. Now it is
Corporations vs. you and me. The corporations are taking it all away.
Does it look that way to you?

[paulk]

25. I have a few also

I also have a few that I would gladly change places with

you are not really saying anything, you know - just because there are places worse off than the US doesn't mean thinks are good here

[hunter]

36. Cool. They can pay my medical bills and my kid's college tuition.

Do they live in places with a decent health care system?

[Cal33]

97. Am glad you wrote that. Many countries in Europe and elsewhere have free

tuition from pre-kindergarten all the way to a Ph.D. But their standards
are high. In Germany, for example, there are also private schools, but
the kids going there are usually those who have failed in public schools,
and their parents can afford private school. And, to be eligible for
college, those graduating from the senior year of h.s. still have to
pass the public school final exams of their state.

One can fail a class and repeat the year again. Failing a second
time in the same year means that an academic career for that individual
is over. There are many different types of trade schools to which they
can go, though.

Prior to WWII, possibly only 5% to 10% graduated from h.s. in Germany. After
WWII, they slackened their rules, so that today perhaps 20% to 25% are h.s.
graduates. They don't seem to hesitate flunking anyone who can't keep up.
But their trade-schools are excellent. Those who graduate from auto-mechanic
schools, f.i., really know their stuff. In Switzerland, those who graduate
from stenography school (a three year trade-school course) can take dictation
in 3 languages. At least, this was the way it was many years ago.

Does this give us an idea of the difference in the standards of their
schools and ours?

Public schools have higher standards than private ones (just the
opposite of our system, which we inherited from the British). There
are no private universities in Europe outside of Britain. All are
state universities. Physics is a popular course in Germany.
To be sure to survive the first year in physics, one has to be among
the top 5%.

I don't think physics is that popular a course here. It's one
of those "tough" subjects that requires not only brains, but also
hard work.

Yes, and everyone has medical insurance coverage. No worries there
either. Taxes are higher than here, but they get good services
and fewer worries for what they pay. Most think it's worth it.

[Subdivisions]

50. The ole right-wing 'If you don't like it, get the fuck out.' meme. n/t

[Codeine]

59. No, I think that was more

an invitation to examine what an actual failed state is like. Hyperbole does nothing to advance one's cause.

[Individualist]

81. +1

[Exilednight]

108. The question is, for how long? It's only a matter of time until the US fails ............

the gate test.

[whatchamacallit]

115. dupe

[whatchamacallit]

117. I guess that means everything is peachy, eh?

Yay, our bucket of shit is still coveted!

[txlibdem]

121. Never a dull moment with you around

Your post is the most hilarious thing I've read today. :rofl:

I just can't imagine any other wealthy nation paying its corporations to turn it into a third world cesspool.

[Individualist]

2. When I read your post, I was reminded of Sinclair Lewis' book, It Can't Happen Here.

[Greyhound]

35. Available for free @ Gutenberg, far any who haven't read it.

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301001h.html

Of course, claiming to have read it is just as good as having actually read it here in America. Just look at all these 'experts' on capitalism that can't bring themselves to wade through "The Wealth of Nations".

[Individualist]

82. also free at public libraries

:)

[Greyhound]

94. Whazza lieberry?

:rofl:

[travelingtypist]

3. You've almost got them all...

The sexism I think is the only one missing.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/14_Characteristics_Fascism.html

[Richardo]

4. What really gets me are the bands of warlords, the roadside IEDs and lack of basic services.

I hate that.

The US has problems? Yeah.

Is it a "failed state"? That makes for a good thread title, but: not even close.

[mix]

38. I wonder if the 40 million living in poverty in the USA would agree with you.

I doubt it. Glad it's working for you though.

[Richardo]

41. That's a problem - but it also means there are 260 million prople NOT living in poverty

13% below the poverty line is a big problem - but not a sign of a failed state.

[mix]

44. I'll stand with the 40 million whom the state is failing. nt

[Richardo]

62. If poverty means a failed state, then there has never been a successful state.

I have a few more metrics than that.

[mix]

66. Like: "We're not Afghanistan or Iraq or Somalia!"

Your expectations for this country are pitifully low.

[Richardo]

71. No: There has never been a successful state in the history of history...

...if your sole measure is the presence of poverty. Which yours seems to be.

[mix]

87. Poverty, how insignificant when measuring the success and failures of a state.

Your metrics are empty national chauvinism.

[Subdivisions]

51. Give it ten more years of flat to declining energy inputs and post again. n/t

[Richardo]

61. But.... I won't have any energy then, will I?

Besides, the OP is in the present tense, not 10 years from now.

[Hekate]

143. I have to post this fast because we only get 2 hours of electricity a day here in SoCal

and you can never tell when it's going to

zzzpttzz

That was close.

Tomorrow I have to walk 10 miles to take my sick baby to the clinic, and you know how that is

zzzpttzzzzzpttzz

[snappyturtle]

5. I thought I was sending this to the "Greatest" but alas someone

unrecced! Oh well, people wearing blinders don't see the entire picture of the trends. YES, there are many countries worse off than the U.S. but why should we not point out the obvious and try to turn matters around or, at least, go down fighting!

[txlibdem]

124. Too many people wearing blinders

That is exactly the problem. The poor and middle class have been sold a bill of goods. We've been lied to for so long we don't even know which way is up. And the liars are constantly lying about changing the lies that they originally lied about. Got that?

When one of their lies stops working they just trot out another lie, then they lie about even believing the first lie in the first place! Capitalism is a PONZI scheme, pure and simple. There is no other explanation. The longer we allow it to poison our minds and our lives the more misery we will have to endure.

[NoPasaran]

6. Wow, that was quick

The US went from fascism to "failed state" status and hardly anyone but a few Internet geniuses noticed.

Unrecced for foolishness.

:thumbsdown:

[mix]

39. Failed states take different forms, here are ours:

This is not evidence of a failing state?

[treestar]

7. It's not a "failed state." It is functioning. Failed state sounds

like a term that should describe something like Somalia or the Third Reich.

We can discuss our problems without resorting to extreme labels.

[MineralMan]

8. When are you emigrating?

[tjwash]

9. Yes, the U.S. resemblence to Zimbabwe, the Congo, and the slums of Mumbai and Hyderabad is stunning.

I need to email Skinner and ask him to install a drama-queen smiley.

:eyes:

[Cleanelec]

23. I think this smiley works for drama queens

[Jakes Progress]

34. Don't forget the clueless smiley.

Oh and the one with a ostrich with his head in the dirt.

Do you really think the country is working? Do you really think the system is serving the people?

[Cleanelec]

52. Why have you not left?

Since you are obviously so "clued in"?

[Jakes Progress]

118. Ahhh. Spiro Agnew's favorite line.

Lovely little blast from the past. You should be ashamed.

[Arkana]

10. This is disingenuous at worst, hyperbolic at best.

The United States has its problems but it's a damn sight better than any other country on earth that could consider itself a world superpower.

[G_j]

11. nice fantasy

though not supported by reality

[Arkana]

12. So you disagree that we're better off than China and India?

[G_j]

26. well OK, if you're talking "super-powers"

I suppose. I was thinking of the industrialized world, Europe etc.
We are way behind most of those countries.

[mix]

40. This is a distraction, not an argument.

American citizens who worry more about the problems of other countries while their own is in steep decline should do a little soul searching. The system might work for you and yours, but for the millions in poverty and unemployment, the state and economy are failing.

[Arkana]

58. Been unemployed for over a year and a half. Care to revise your comments?

[mix]

60. No. nt

[MineralMan]

15. Here's a website that will help you emigrate from the

United States. It's full of good tips.

http://www.mahalo.com/how-to-emigrate

[MineralMan]

16. Here's some information from the UN about emigration from

the United States, with specifics on various countries. Those who believe that the U.S. is a failed state may want to read this:

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/meetings/egm/migrationegm06/DOC%2019%20ILO.pdf

[Mike Marble]

45. Ah, the "love it or leave it" brigade. Brings back memories.

Oh, for the days of Nixon's hardhatted construction workers beating up hippies....

[mix]

57. Strange, isn't it?

I never thought I'd hear people on the left making this argument.

[MineralMan]

63. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that if your nation has failed,

you'd want to go elsewhere. If the U.S. is a failed nation, the rational thing is to want to live somewhere that isn't a failed nation. One hyperbolic statement deserves another.

[mix]

65. No, the "rational" response when you are an American citizen

is to want the stop the country from falling any further...to change the direction of the country.

Your post is shameful.

[MineralMan]

67. There was nothing whatsoever in the OP about fixing anything.

It was just a list of supposed ways the U.S. is a failed nation. I didn't get any idea that the OP thought it could be fixed. Criticism is good, as long as it comes with suggestions for fixing the problems you enumerate. No suggestions? No change.

I appreciate your responding to my post, though.

[mix]

68. The entire post was about fixing this country.

A diagnosis is the first step to curing the problems.

Anyone who is serious about facing this country's ills and who can see beyond their political agendas understands this.

[Terry in Austin]

109. Or, you'd want to hang around to help fix it

That seems just as rational to me. YMMV.

[lunasun]

133. mostly supported by the war industry - they need that kinda talk

[proteus_lives]

28. +1

[Greyhound]

37. Speaking of disingenuous, it's easy to win if you limit the competition to one.

:eyes:

[divideandconquer]

48. If you didn't have healthcare, are a Katrina victim, go to a failed school, etc

America is well on it's way to being a failed state person by person.

Also, America has clearly fallen out the top tier of nations as far as standard of living for the average person.

I know it's Gauling, but France is now ahead of us. But hey, the British are doing just as bad.

[Ghost in the Machine]

79. It helps if you lose the myth that we are a "world superpower"..

It sounds good, in a jingoistic patriotic kind of way... but what "world superpower" has to borrow money to fight a bunch of ragtag rebels in a desert? What's supposed to be "the greatest military in the world" can't beat what amounts to a street gang in 9 years...

Everything looks good through rose colored glasses... or blinders.

[Pavulon]

96. Yep, fuck those haitians, those bastards who died in the tsunami, ohh, we dontate

billions to truly failed states, the military saved lives there. I bet half of the yappers have never been to a place where life is truly cheap.

They would sell themselves (literally) to live in the ruins of the 9th ward. Perspective, you lack it.

[Ghost in the Machine]

119. Yeah.. wonder how much of that donated money was borrowed?

Isn't it ironic that we send billions to one country to help it, while spending hundreds of billions to bomb another country back to the stone age?

I bet some homeless Americans would sell themselves to live in the ruins of the 9th Ward, too. I've lived on the streets before. I also lived in the shell of my home in Florida City, Florida after Hurricane Andrew. I know it wasn't quite the same, as it wasn't a permanent situtaion for me, but it was for a lot of people. I have more than perspective, I have experience. Have you ever been homeless, or do you just gain your perspective vicariously through others?

Sorry if it sounds crass, but I'm more concerned with our own survival here than I am with anywhere else. We have our own problems to fix before we worry about eveyone else.

Your mileage may vary....

[Pavulon]

140. I've watched little kids eat shit off the street

in India. They were so malnourished I would guess 6 or 7 could be 5 or 6, couldn't tell. Other peoples disgusting trash was their life. Ironically right in front of a "nice" hotel. People living in filth in Brazil, Venezuela, and China. I've seen people whose home and lives were destroyed in war, one we stopped not started. I've cashed a check to carry a gun in a truly failed state. I did not say the US was perfect, we need to fix a whole lot. However we are nothing near a failed state, nothing like bosnia in the KFOR days. Your ability to subsist is not determined by the rain and how much food you can grow.

I dont need to be homeless to make that call. I respect your position and experience but my own have led me to a different conclusion.

I've seen plenty with my own eyes.

[L0oniX]

13. The country is totally dependant on oil ...a finite resource ...from other countries.

There's not much time left.

[Cal33]

19. The corporations are forcing our country to do this. They're doing

their best to destroy our democracy and turn it into a plutocracy.
It's all for their own benefit. The rest of the nation will be
their servants -- so they hope. Would you call them traitors?

[flamingdem]

17. We're DOOMED! I'm moving to Burma immediately nt

[MineralMan]

18. I'm thinking Liberia. Their official language is English.

Sound lovely to me.

[salinen]

31. Myanmar.

[flamingdem]

49. I stand corrected. I want to live in Myanmar. nt

[DevonRex]

53. I'm headed to the Faroe Islands immediately.

I bought all the islands from Denmark, so don't follow me. I'm the last one in. :silly:

[geek_sabre]

20. And yet, there's no place I'd rather live

There are still countries that stone women for adultery (or being raped).
There are still countries that hang homosexuals.
There are still countries where women are denied a vote, and a right to walk on the street alone.
To be in poverty in the US is still to live far better than those in most other countries.

Some of your statements are completely false (we don't have the most murders or homicides per capita).

There's a lot we can do to improve the US, but if you want to compare, we're much better off than the vast majority.

[cowcommander]

21. So what's your idea of a "successful" state then?

Norway, Sweden, Germany...etc?

[salinen]

30. Yes.

Those are good examples. States that balance humanity and socialism and capitalism together.

[OregonBlue]

22. Oh please, we have big problems but we're hardly a failed state. Now Somalia, that's a failed state

[rrneck]

24. It's ugly, but it's not that bad yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state

Red - Alert
Orange - Warning
Grey - No Information / Dependent Territory
Yellow - Moderate
Green - Sustainable

[salinen]

27. Cool map.

We should be green.

[rrneck]

29. Yeah,

the richest 1% have all the green.

[JonLP24]

32. Strange there is an un-edited OP

that says, "There are examples of countries worse than the U.S". So many felt the need to point that out. I agree but this country could be a hell of a lot better.

[Richardo]

42. I think we all agree it could be a hell of a lot better

That's a long way from the hysteria and hyperbole of crying 'failed state' though.

[mix]

33. Among the highest child poverty rates in the industrialized world.

Why Americans accept this decline and even celebrated it, as many posters on this thread have, is shameful, comforting themselves that it is so much worse elsewhere. It is a dishonest distraction from the problems that plague this country.

[Richardo]

43. Who's celebrating child poverty?

Take a deep breath and back away from the nice looking strawman - he's not really your friend.

[mix]

46. Is that what I claimed?

The "decline" of the USA is what is being celebrated by comparing the social ills of this country to other places Americans imagine to be hell on earth.

We got it so much better than those "other" people, according to those who make this argument, which is not an argument at all, but a celebration of failure and an inability to see how far this country has fallen since the neoliberals took power in 1980.

[Richardo]

47. That's how it reads.

Why Americans accept this decline and even celebrated it, as many posters on this thread have, is shameful...

[mix]

55. "This decline" refers to the country's fall in general...child poverty is one example of that.

Nowhere else is child poverty mentioned or celebrated in the thread, so "this decline" couldn't refer to that.

I wasn't clear enough and you misunderstood the post. Fair enough.

But I still stand by my claim that the failure to face this country's declining state by extolling the 260 million who do not live in poverty, for example, is to be willfully blind and detached.

This country's falling apart.

[hack89]

54. We do not have the highest per capita murder rate

violent crime is at historic lows and falling steadily - doesn't sound like a failed state to me.

[mix]

56. Incarceration rates are at historic highs.

Sounds like a failing state to me.

[hack89]

84. Murder rate cut in half in 30 years

doesn't sound like a failed state to me.

[mix]

64. Among industrialized countries, the USA has some of the highest

violent crime and homicide rates. Worldwide the OP's statement is false, but when placed in the context of other industrialized nations, we are among the highest rates for these categories.

[hack89]

70. England, Austria, Sweden and Canada have higher violent crime rates

according to the UN and EU. Britain's violent crime rate is four times ours.

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html#ixzz11z3gCITd




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html#ixzz11z3SCiiD

[mix]

73. Our homicide rates are higher than France, Iceland, Australia,

the UK, Canada, Italy, Spain, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Japan, and Saudi Arabia, to name only a few.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita#rest

The UK has marginally more crime than the USA, but we still rank near the top in most categories among industrialized countries despite what the Daily Mail claims.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

[hack89]

75. Your data is 10 years old

things change.

If you moved to England, you would surrender a very small chance of being murdered for a significantly greatly chance of being a victim of a violent crime such as assault.

How about some perspective - murder is not evenly distributed in America. It is skewed by our "war on drugs". In Rhode Island where I live, the vast majority of people live in neighborhoods with no murder. There has been one murder in 10 years in my town for example (it was a crime of passion). Stay out of poor, crime riddled neighborhoods where drug dealing is prevalent and your chances of being murdered diminish to nearly zero. Rational drug laws would significantly reduce our murder rate.

[mix]

76. And given the global economic crises of the last three years,

I would dare say the rankings have worsened for the US.

1998-2000 were boom times compared to now.

There is no evidence on the internet to prove this. But I'll go out on a limb and say that the 2000 report is more or less accurate and that if anything, the USA rankings are worse in the categories of homicide and violent crime among industrialized nations.

If you can come up with some current numbers, share them. I'll do the same.

[hack89]

77. Violent crimes across the board falling steadily since 2000.

here are rates through 2009

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

[mix]

78. Yet for homicides and violent crimes we remain among the highest in the industrialized world.

Since 2000, the homicide rate has not fallen "steadily" either, it has fluctuated between 5.0 and 5.7. If anything the decline was more dramatic between 1990 and 2000.

This is certainly good news, but hardly evidence that our country is not falling apart.

[hack89]

83. So what?

it has been like that forever. Were we a failed state in 1980 when the murder rate was double what it is now? Can you show a similar "failed" state that cut it's murder rate in half in 30 years?

I look at those stats and they tell me I have never been safer in my life time. Never in 50 years. So don't try to tell me the murder rate is a sign of a failed state.

[mix]

85. Glad you're "personally" safe.

Violence and insecurity for others however are only one symptom of a failing state, not the only one.

A disengaged citizenry is another.

[hack89]

89. Those "others" have never been safer.

By your definition the US has always been a failed state. If our present crime rates are indicative of a failed state then what did it mean in 1980 when our murder rate was twice what it is now?

Failed states become more violent and their citizens less safe. It is impossible to make that argument about the US. Impossible.

[mix]

91. Your imagination is running wild.

Our high rates of murder and violence are only one symptom of a failing state, among many others, not proof in and of itself. High poverty among adults and children, two other symptoms of our failing state, are others. The militarization of society and endless wars are also symptoms.

Failed states and failing states don't all look like Somalia, despite your colonialist fantasy.

[hack89]

92. By your definition nearly every country in the world is a failed state

in other words, you have rendered the term meaningless.

[mix]

93. "Meaningless": Poverty, violence, endless wars, environmental crises,

class inequality, corruption, collapse of public education.

We're not Somalia or Afghanistan, I'll give you that, but we are failing on our own terms.

But you seem quite happy.

[hack89]

98. And none of those can applied to nearly every country in the world?

come on, think what you are saying. By that criteria, for example, every country in the Americas with the exception of Canada is a failed state. Extreme poverty, racism, class inequality, corruption, lack of civil rights.

If every country is a failed state then the term is meaningless.

[mix]

100. The USA is a failing state, not a failed one.

States fail in different ways, history, culture and economics make sure of that. Don't expect your simplistic model of the failed state to fit every country from Canada to Iraq.

In the USA, every significant social index--from life expectancy to child poverty-has worsened since 1980.

I find no comfort in the thought that other nations have it worse than we do.

This is our country, the only one we can hope to change.

[hack89]

106. I don't have a simplistic model - I like the Fund for Peace's

complex and very thorough. What do you think of it?

Aren't crime rates a significant social index?

[mix]

112. Of course they are, but they are still comparatively high in the USA among industrialized states. nt

[hack89]

114. You really don't pay attention, do you?

didn't you read those stats from the UN and EU listing all those EU countries with violent crime rates much higher than ours? You are certainly entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

[mix]

120. Daily Mail? A Tory report on crime to make Labor look bad?

Sorry, I'm not that gullible.

The USA has some of the highest rates of homicide and violent crime among industrialized nations, despite your accurate, though monotonous, insistence that violent crime rates have fallen. They have, but the USA still has some of the highest rates of violent crime in the industrialized world.

Not a single study lauding the decline of violent crime in the USA disputes that the USA remains a leader in these categories, or near the top.

U.S. rates of violent crime remain above those of other industrial democracies. And certain places, including Baltimore, where murder rose 9.5 percent in the first half of 2009, have progressed less dramatically than others. Still, this substantial and sustained reduction in murder, once thought impossible, ranks as a major national achievement.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/01/AR2010010101829.html

[hack89]

126. Your link calls this decade a golden age in reducing violent crime and murder

it takes a unique outlook on life to look at decades of continuous decline in crime and see failure.

And those fact you desperately want to ignore come from the UN and the EU. I take it you have no rational rebuttal to them?

[mix]

129. I never denied the significance of this decline, but the link does note,

as do most academic sources, that our rates of violent crime are among the highest in the industrial world despite this "golden age."

Look at the 2008 UN Report on homicides.

[hack89]

132. So as rates continue to decline, things will be ok.

correct?

[mix]

134. Look at your numbers,

fluctuations in homicide rates between 5.0 and 5.7 between 2000 and 2010 hardly qualify as a decline.

A more arguable decline occurred between 1990 and 2000. For the last decade, "decline" is inaccurate at best, a lie at worst.

[hack89]

135. So we rationalize our drug laws

as you refuse to acknowledge, violence is not even distributed throughout America. It is skewed by drug violence. Rationalize our drug laws and our murder rates will plummet.

[salinen]

141. Thanks so much Mix

I wished I'd written "failing state". Can't put the shit back in the horse.

[Quantess]

69. "most murders per capita"? Are you sure?

I agree with your OP overall, but I seriously doubt the USA has the highest murder rate.

[TonyMontana]

72. Not a failed state. An empire and a plutocracy.

House Harkonnen, if you will.

[grahamhgreen]

74. agreed.

[Terry in Austin]

80. US position in the Failed State Index: 159

The Fund for Peace quantifies what it means to be a "failed state" on a continuous scale, using criteria mentioned in the OP, and monitors countries for how they are stacking up.

Out of 196 countries in the world, 177 appear on the list as showing some degree of failure as a state. The United States is currently close to the bottom of the list, but not off of it entirely.

[mix]

90. Among industrialized countries the USA fairs very poorly.

Compared to Somalia, to great comfort for many here, the USA is looking great!

[hack89]

99. It fares better than Italy, Germany, France, and Spain

Read the link.

[mix]

101. But worse compared to these others:

Singapore
United Kingdom
Belgium
Portugal
Japan
Iceland
Canada
Luxembourg
Austria
Netherlands
Australia
New Zealand
Denmark
Ireland
Switzerland
Sweden
Finland

We truly live in an age of diminished expectations.

[hack89]

104. They are basically tied

the differences between America and those countries is insignificant.
There are 30 countries ranked higher. Are you telling me that every country except for those 30 is a failed state? Really? Do you understand how foolish you look now?

[mix]

105. Where do I say that?

Among industrialized countries, the social indices of the USA are abysmal. Not once did I say the USA was a "failed state." It is a failing state relative to other industrialized countries.

This really can't be that hard to understand.

[hack89]

107. They are failing too, aren't they?

why would they be rank higher on the failed state scale if that wasn't the case?

[mix]

110. The neo-liberal model of the EU

doesn't seem to be doing too well either. The failed state scale is interesting, but the failure of states has to be taken on a case by case basis. The crises of the USA has to be understand in other words in relation to other industrialized states to fathom the seriousness of our decline.

I don't know about you, but for me in a country like ours with 300 million people, the fact that 40 million live in poverty is a social catastrophe, a national failure.

If Somalia is your model for understanding how political, social, and economic institutions atrophy and decline you'll never understand our country's present predicaments or the French Revolution for that matter.

[hack89]

116. I don't ever recall mentioning Somalia

I do know that these are not the hardest times America has ever experienced, socially or economically. I know it is important to you that America fail, but I don't see it. The 70's were a horrible time economically with astronomical crime rates and rampant poverty - not to mention the Vietnam war. Were we a failing state too 40 years ago? I don't know how old you are, but you certainly seem to lack perspective on what has happened in America over the past 4o years. To say that things are significantly worse is ridiculous.

[mix]

122. If you don't understand how bad things are for people now, then you never will.

[hack89]

125. I understand. I also know that it has been just as bad in the past

that's what you don't seem to understand.

[mix]

127. Here are the most recent UN homicide rates globally.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html

[hack89]

130. Show the violent crime rates

I think you will see that in many countries they are rising as the US rates are falling.

[hack89]

131. The murder rate in 1980 was twice what it is now

do you agree that as far as murder is concerned, things are much better in America now?

[SOS]

86. As long as China supplies the money

and Saudi Arabia supplies the oil, we'll remain a low-ranked OECD country.

It's a house of cards.

As Lewis Mumford said of a previous empire nearing it's end: "Rome's life was now an imitation of life: a mere holding on."

[Obamanaut]

88. How does the US rate as far as people migrating into it - compared

with other countries - both legally and otherwise?

[Pavulon]

95. Bet this poster has never been to the third world, you have no idea how good

you have it. Deciding which child starves to death is not part of your routine. You do not literally live and die by the weather. Visit India or China, if China be sure to leave the city.

Your bills, which you can not be jailed for not paying, are trivial.

[upi402]

102. Rome redux

History repeats, ready for the Medici's?

[Spazito]

103. Somalia is a failed state...

when the U.S. becomes the same as Somalia then an OP like this will have merit. Until then....:thumbsdown:

[Exilednight]

111. Think about this: Somalia is pretty much a

libertarian state. How fast is the right pushing us in that direction?

[Spazito]

113. Seeing as the repubs lost the last election, not that fast...

to even intimate that the U.S. is a failed state or even close to becoming one is beyond ludicrous. Somalia has NO functioning government, libertarian or otherwise, btw.

[Octafish]

123. K&R with tears.

Wars worldwide and at home.

Who's all this benefit?

[G_j]

128. I think we live in a failed world

[Vidar]

136. I entirely agree with you, but we seem to be minority here.

[opihimoimoi]

137. As long as the GOP Party has influence to disrupt America...the USA will FAIL

[harun]

138. Capitalism won, you really think you are going to get your Democracy back?

How?

Even if we had an amendment to the Constitution to stop Corporate dollars it would still take a generation at best to turn things around, and it would do nothing about the Corporate Media propaganda machine, who would fight it every step of the way.

You are talking a 40-60 year battle and that would be if you had 70% of the people on your side. We can't get 50% of the people to agree water is wet.

[Dark]

139. You need some perspective. Try reading about how bad the 1930s were.

nt

[dan_87]

142. foreign investment

always neat when being financed by countries still in their own development