Protect DU: Please be careful about posting copyright-protected material.

[MineralMan]

There were some threads here a while back about DU facing a lawsuit over some copyright-protected material that was posted on DU. DU and others are fighting that lawsuit, and will probably win. However, I notice, from time to time, original posts which post too much of the source material to be called fair use. Short excerpts are fine, in most cases, but longer copy and paste posts may be a violation of copyright. DU has a very clear rule about such posts, and careful DUers will want to help protect DU from further legal hassles by following it. The rule reads:

5. Copyrights: Do not copy-and-paste entire articles onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt (not exceeding 4 paragraphs) with a link back to the original.

If you're unsure whether material you want to post is protected by copyright, look at the bottom of the article at the source. You'll probably see a copyright notice there. In some cases, a copyright notice may appear on the source's home page that notifies visitors that all content on that website is protected.

Even if material doesn't display a copyright notice, though, it may be that some website has copied and pasted the article from another source and neglected to credit the original source. Many blogs do this all the time. The lack of a copyright notice in such cases does not mean that the content can be freely posted elsewhere. It's still protected, even if a lazy blogger has simply copied and pasted the material in violation of the copyright laws.

Personally, I think it's very important to protect DU from unnecessary legal problems by paying close attention to what's in original posts. Whether or not you agree with how copyright laws are enforced on the internet, copyright violations can mean big trouble for websites like DU.

If you notice OPs that are clearly in violation of the DU rules concerning copyright protection, you can use the Alert button to inform the moderators, who can quickly edit the OP to make it comply with DU's rules about fair use excerpts.

Disclaimer: I'm only posting this OP to help DU avoid legal problems. My post has nothing to do with anything else. I'm not an admin or moderator here, and am speaking only as a DUer who wants to see DU continue without legal problems.

[ZombieHorde]

1. Unfortunately, many news articles are not presented in paragraph form. nt

[MineralMan]

2. Oddly, I've never noticed a lack of paragraphs at any of the news

sites I visit, or even blogs. Can you give me an example of such a thing? I'd be very interested to look at it.

[ZombieHorde]

5. Articles from google news....

Each "paragraph" is exactly one sentence long, with the possible exception of long quotes.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5guozqoCrqWM6lt7j1zgnNMqJ7jdgD9IPGIL83?docId=D9IPGIL83

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/10/20101011104817179833.html

This article uses the one sentence model for the first half, and then uses the regular paragraph system for the second half.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39580262/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/

[MineralMan]

6. A single-sentence paragraph is still a paragraph.

News outlets have long used very short paragraphs, because of the narrow columns in newspapers. This has carried across to web-based news stories. A paragraph is a paragraph, no matter how many sentences it contains. I can't tell you how many single-sentence paragraphs I wrote in my many years as a magazine writer. Standard stuff, due to narrow columns. Today, the practice is still followed by most journalists and writers.

[ZombieHorde]

8. If you were to turn one of those articles in to an English teacher, the teacher would tell you

to combine many of those sentences. The paragraphs in those articles are fragmented.

"This is from." <-- Is that a sentence?

[MineralMan]

10. Journalism and English instruction are not the same thing.

Write long paragraphs in a news story, and the editor will break them up for a cleaner appearance on the page. News stories are not term papers. The Journalism professor will tell students that very thing. As a career journalist, I can tell you that, as well.

[ZombieHorde]

17. I agree, but the sentences are still not paragraphs.

I sometimes break up my DU posts into separate sentences, but I don't try to pass those sentences off as paragraphs. Like sentences, paragraphs have rules. Simply naming a section of text a "paragraph" does not make it so.

Perhaps you should call the sentences, "journalist paragraphs."

As a career journalist, I can tell you that, as well.

I have some off topic questions for you, assuming you work in the U.S. Do you feel pressure not to cover certain stories? Do you feel pressure to leave certain facts out of your stories? Do you feel your freedom of journalistic speech is repressed in anyway?

[MineralMan]

19. The length of a paragraph is decided by the writer or the publication.

Your definition of a paragraph holds no sway. If it is displayed as a paragraph by the copyright holder, it is a paragraph.

I'm retired as a journalist now. I wrote for many magazines, but did not do news stories very often. Mostly, I reviewed products and wrote instructional articles on software. I was never pressured by anyone in any way to focus my reviews or other articles in any direction. In fact, my reviews were often hated by large software companies, since I didn't allow the size or prominence of the company to influence my reviews. I would have withdrawn my articles if there were any pressure from anyone. The only pressure was from my editors, and that was to do a thorough and accurate job.

What little news I did was product-based, not political. No influence there, either.

[ZombieHorde]

26. "Your definition of a paragraph holds no sway." You don't grammar lessons from an anonymous person

named ZombieHorde? Fair enough. Here are two better sources.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/paragraphs.htm

http://hospitality.hud.ac.uk/studyskills/writing/structure/paragraphs.htm

---------------------
Sorry for this side discussion about possible pressure on American journalists, but I am really curious about this subject. I have read a few posts on DU which claim the U.S. actually has very little freedom of the press. Have you heard anything similar to this from your fellow journalists? Have any of them complained about oppression? Do you believe the US has as much freedom of the press as other countries?

[MineralMan]

29. We have so much freedom of the press in 2010 that anyone

with a computer can create a blog and write anything they please, without laying out a penny. Blogger.com is full of such efforts.

Now, writing for a publication that has an actual circulation or for a website that gets thousands of hits an hour is another matter. When you do that, you write for the owner of that publication or website, and will either write according to the wishes of the owner or your work will not be seen.

Anyone, however, can publish whatever he or she wishes in 2010. It's easy. It's free. It's a spectacular amount of freedom. Samizdat is available to everyone now. Your success will depend on the number of readers you can attract. We have more freedom of press today than at any time in our history.

You can even write entire articles as one paragraph, if you choose. I don't recommend that practice, though, if you want to attract readers. Short paragraphs are more popular with readers, especially on the internet. Everyone has become accustomed to them over the years.

As for fellow professional writers like myself are concerned, no, I haven't heard about any oppression from them. Low pay, yes. Stupid editors, yes. Oppression? No, not at all.

[wtmusic]

3. Assume all cut-and-pasted material is protected.

The copyright notice has been optional since 1989, and besides, it's just a good habit to get into.

[MineralMan]

4. That's a very good point. Since many bloggers just copy and paste

whole articles into their blogs, and sometimes don't even credit the original source, making the assumption you suggest is a really good idea. And you're right about the copyright notice not being required. With professional media, though, it's almost always there.

[LiberalFighter]

7. The first 4 paragraphs don't always have to be used.

Use any 4 paragraphs or less that you think hit the message.

[MineralMan]

9. That's true, too. A DU poster can also paraphrase material

in a news story. I often do that when referring to online content. A one-paragraph paraphrase with a link to the original content works just fine in most cases. I've noticed a lot of prolific DU posters who do the same.

[rainbow4321]

41. Yep...I use the phrase (snip) alot

To indicate that I have left some paragraphs out between two other copied/pasted paragraphs.

And thanks to the OP for posting this..it's a good reminder for those us who had taken time off from DU and then returned wanting to share an article link..for the life of me I could not remember at the time if the rule was 4 or 5 paragraphs..

[LoZoccolo]

11. That would include Tom Tomorrow /This Modern World/ comic strips as well. n/t

[MineralMan]

13. Well, I know they all display a copyright notice right on the

artwork. In most cases, if you visit the home website of the cartoonist, you'll usually find some sort of statement about using their material elsewhere. I don't know how DU treats cartoons and the like. I've often wondered about that, but there are lots of cartoons posted here. I hope that never causes any legal problems for DU.

[Enrique]

18. especially the ones with Chuckles

[Bitwit1234]

12. What you could do is give your own short summary and then

refer them to the original. And if giving the link is not permitted, give the website and the heading. That way the person, if interested could go to the site themselves and copyright would not be violated.

[MineralMan]

14. That's the safest technique, of course. Not everyone is comfortable

with their own writing skills, though. I suspect that's the reason for a lot of copy and paste posts. It's also faster to just copy and paste, which may also be a reason people do it.

[FSogol]

15. Question: How about comics? You can't post part of a comic.

How do we avoid copyright trouble for those? Anyone know?

[MineralMan]

16. I don't really know the answer to that.

I know that cartoonists usually put a copyright notice on every cartoon. How serious they are about enforcing their intellectual property rights probably is an individual choice. I know that the Tom Tomorrow cartoonist has a page on his website about reprints and reuse. There's nothing on that page about free posting of the cartoons. Payment is expected, or at least some prior arrangement.

I'm sure different cartoonists, along with the syndicates they work for, have clearly-stated guidelines and rules about use.

I know that lots of cartoons get posted here and on other websites. I'm just not sure about the rules for those.

[Hissyspit]

31. Tom Tomorrow knows we post his stuff here.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

33. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a regular reader/lurker here.

He might even post, for that matter (though it would be under a different name)

[Scurrilous]

20. K & R

:thumbsup:

[RamboLiberal]

21. And don't even post any paragraphs IMHO from Righthaven clients

Remember DU got sued even though the Las Vegas Journal Review article posted was 4 of 34 paragraphs with proper credit & link to LVRJ.

Righthaven partners in news.

Newspaper associated with Stephen Media http://www.stephensmedia.com/newspapers/

Another Righthaven client with newspapers http://m.wehco.com/Content/HTM/about.htm

[wtmusic]

22. I thought Righthaven looked for anything that might constitute infringement,

and then sought out the owners and purchased the rights?

That would be the real sleazebag way to do it, in my constitutionally-protected opinion. :D

[RamboLiberal]

30. Righthaven's idea of infringement

Is anything beyond 1 paragraph from my understanding of all I've been reading about them.

[supernova]

24. Righthaven puts out material

for the sole purpose of fishing for lawsuits, it seems to me.

And no, you couldn't get me to quote from anything they publish for any amount of love or money.

[supernova]

23. The other situation that

reminds me on this topic is when posters say "with permission of the author." and post the ENTIRE piece.

I'm inclined to believe them that that author doesn't mind, FWIW. They may be acquaintances or colleagues and the author truly doesn't mind. But I wonder if they have that in writing and could/would produce that assent if need be? It still leaves DU exposed unnecessarily.

And yes, having working as an editor and publisher, a one-sentence paragraph still counts as a paragraph. A "paragraph" is whatever the publishing organization decides it is. You have to copy and quote as it is written.

[MineralMan]

25. Yup. There's a lot of hard and fast playing with intellectual

property all over the internet, especially when it's not the person doing the posting who's at risk. If the plaintiffs win a few of these cases, it's going to start a firestorm of people filing similar suits. Google makes finding where your intellectual property has been used very easy, and with publishers of all kinds in tight money situations, the temptation to sue is going to be huge. I predict a tsunami of intellectual property cases to grow and crest very shortly.

It's so easy to poo-poo this if you have nothing to lose, as in the case of most anonymous posters on various blogs and other websites. However, some of them may also be in for a surprise when a subpoena reveals their identity and they are named in some of these suits.

We'll see if I'm right in this. There could be wailing and gnashing of teeth on many fronts.

I want DU to survive, and news amalgamation sites like DU, which allow members to post fairly freely, are a natural target for these suits.

[Spike89]

27. Always remember too, they are Fair Use guidelines...

not rules, laws or any other type of quantifiable measure. In other words, the 4 paragraph "rule" is not legal protection. Some people say 10% or less is a good guideline, but that too is no protection. The really confusing truth is, any thing lifted from a copyrighted work is a violation of copyright. Fair Use is simply a mitigating defense, i.e., "you did it, but the court feels you were justified."
As an editor, author and publisher myself, I would caution anyone that "with author's permission" may be totally worthless. Oftentimes (almost always for professional journalists) the author isn't the sole owner of the copyright.

[MineralMan]

28. All good points. The only completely safe route is

that of paraphrasing the overall subject of a story, then linking to the original, as published. Those who are interested enough will go to the source and read the story. Those who are not interested enough will probably not. Often, partially-quoted stories are posted using selected portions of the story, while leaving out important details. I've seen that happen many times here.

[Hissyspit]

32. When I post a whole article with a note that I have permission of the author,

it means I have permission of the author.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Well in the future please get a note from your mother

and post that as well. :evilgrin:

[lame54]

34. does that go for the Simpson's clip that has been on the front page all day?

[rucky]

35. I think I've read this somewhere before.

[Tsiyu]

36. You seem deeply concerned n/t

[MineralMan]

37. Thanks for following my threads. I appreciate it.

Yes, I am concerned about this.

[Tsiyu]

38. All you've posted are two threads?

Woot.


Thanks for the concern.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Yes, Dad.

[girl gone mad]

42. Have you been appointed DU hall monitor?

[MineralMan]

43. No, but thanks for reading the thread and asking me a question.

I'm just another DUer.