Democrats need to recognize their role in the culture of LGBT suicide

[Prism]

It's interesting, with the recent media interest in LGBT youth suicide (something I've been watching up close and personal for a long time now from my volunteer work with LGBT youth and homeless), people seem to think "Well, Republicans and Christians are obviously the responsible ones for this culture."

Even though we have a President who says same-sex relationships are lesser and less worthy of recognition.

Even though we have countless partisans who call our equality a pony, a petulant demand, almost a silliness to ask for at all.

Even though we have apologists who relegate our civil rights to an insignificance by constantly explaining that it simply isn't important enough for a President and Congress to address at this time.

Homophobic culture that nurtures this deep despair in our youth didn't arrive solely on a Republican and Christian wind. It is an American problem, with plenty of people on "our side" who are hostile, dismissive, and denigrating towards our community, forever minimizing our demands, our lives, and our rights.

And they will take no responsibility for their role. They will refuse to see how their actions, words, and defenses contribute to the feeling of worthlessness in LGBT youth across this country.

We are told, every single day, even from our so-called, self-described allies that our equality just isn't that important, that our lives just aren't that bad, that our rights just aren't that urgent.

And then they'll turn around and scream that it was all the Republicans' and Christians' doing.

Some people really need a mirror.

[uncommon]

1. K&R

[Behind the Aegis]

2. K&R

[rog]

3. K&R

I can't imagine who's un-recing this ... unbelievable, really ... but I hope that trend turns around.

Good post.

.rog.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

5. K&R

[ZombieHorde]

6. Recommended. President Obama's homophobic remarks, Rick Warren,

ponies, and magic wands are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

"A right delayed is a right denied."

"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

"Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?' But, conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because one's conscience tells one that it is right."

-- Martin Luther King Jr.

[Touchdown]

7. Bravo! K&R

:applause:

And the appalling default that the DCCC is telling the "facts" automatically and the gay people are the lying bitches!

[zipplewrath]

8. How long

In 1971, John Kerry famously asked; "How do you ask someone to be the last American soldier to die for a mistake?" One might ask today who do you ask to be the last soldier to be expelled for DADT? Who should be expelled, the last, so that the bigots in the military can feel better about allowing them to remain? Who should be the last to have their career destroyed so that Obama can wait on the DoD?

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of justice.

What is the right amount of time to wait for justice?

[pgodbold]

9. Thank you.

[quinnox]

10. the gop is a lot worse than Dems!

its not good to pretend Dems aren't better on gay issues than gop! unrecommended

[EFerrari]

11. This is not a race to the bottom of who can take the least responsibility. n/t

[cbdo2007]

12. DU seems to be on a "blame everyone for everything" kick lately.

[quinnox]

14. you said it!

Don't know what has gotten into the water at DU lately.

[Touchdown]

13. So that makes it Ok.

Glad another sensible straight person is telling us how good we have it. :puke:

[quinnox]

16. just laying out the facts

you tell me if I'm wrong, because you know the gop sucks, especially compared to democrats on gay issues.

[Touchdown]

19. So it's better to be spit in the face than to be rapped on the head with a ruler.

Got it!

Here's a clue. As horrible as Bush/Cheney was on everything, they did nothing to GLBT people in 8 years. Even advocating for a Const. Amendment to enshrine straight marriage was one half assed speech (which admittedly is typical of Chimpy) on something he knew would never pass.

DADT and DOMA were passed by a Democrat. Bill Clinton.

[_ed_]

24. Compelling:

Democrats: Not as shitty as Republicans

Democrats: We don't want you to get married, but we might not call you a f*g.

Democrats: Just wait until 2012. Um, how about 2014? Well, maybe in 2016. Actually, might be 2018...

[Touchdown]

35. ... 2022, 2026, 2030... when we colonize Mars! That's it!

No wait! We have to cure athelete's foot first! It's already got one? Well, then toe jam!

[readmoreoften]

88. So a Republican organization, a Republican judge, a Republican lawyer

have been the stars of the Anti-Prop 8 movement. And what have the Democrats done? Passed out a survey on how much homophobes will have their feelings hurt if we're given equality.

FAIL.

[CBR]

15. It is true that Dems are. Just like Dems are better on race issues

but when one tries to point out that there are racist progressive elements, they are blasted and told that is a "divide and conquer" strategy to distract from class. Funny how GLBT issues are never considered "divide and conquer." GLBT rights absolutely should not be considered divide and conquer but the differing reactions is interesting.

[Posteritatis]

17. Yay! Someone's worse than me! I get to abdicate all personal responsibility! (nt)

[FreeState]

21. Wow way to dismiss any pain or suffering GLBT people suffer

both parties have a hand in this - it does not matter who is the most to blame - there is plenty to go around.

[_ed_]

23. If you were gay

and being discriminated against in nearly every sector of our society, including most elected Democrats who don't support marriage equality, would your argument convince you to support Democrats?

If so, why?

[Catherina]

29. Is this satire? n/t

[QC]

30. No. The same person just posted a thread attacking us for our "pet issues." n/t

[Heidi]

32. Republicans should not be the standard against which we measure our humanity. (nt)

[NMMNG]

70. Reading comprehension fail

Thanks for demonstrating the OP's point.

[Bluebear]

81. fail as usual

[readmoreoften]

86. They AREN'T BETTER. And you AREN'T our ally and we don't need you.

[Duncan Grant]

18. K&R

James Baldwin in 1958. (Photo: Mottke Weissman)

"It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have."
--James A. Baldwin

[_ed_]

20. What does Obama think

happens when a gay or gay-questioning kid of 12 or 13 hears that the President of the United States (who is a Democrat) doesn't want him or her to be able to get married? Do you think that might lead one to despair? To make him or her feel inferior? That they will never be "the same" as everyone else? That they are not equal to the Obamas, who were allowed to marry?

It's just bigotry, plain and simple. And it's fucking disgusting.

[treestar]

22. Unrec'd for going out of your way to blame and alienate your allies

What a stupid method of doing things.

Suicide is due to depression - people can survive all sorts of things and depressed people can't handle much.

Anyone who is suicidal, gay or straight, is depressed and needs help. This should not be exploited politically. The individuals need treatment for depression.

Suicide is also ultimately an individual action and there is no way that blaming others for it is going to help. It's practically handing a weapon to the right wing - all they have to do is be meaner and they'll get something they want.

[_ed_]

26. Those goddamn

gay kids are really ruining your public relations strategy, huh? Why can't those fucking little jerks just live in despair until after election day and not muck things up too much?

Do you think that the President of the USA telling them that he thinks they should never be allowed to marry might make them a bit depressed?

What do you care more about: gay rights or electing Democrats?

[EFerrari]

28. -1 for conflating blame and responsibility, for dodging responsibility,

and for implicitly supporting the social isolation that leads gay kids to suicide.

[treestar]

45. You don't know much about suicide or depression

You could just as well be -1 for using depression and suicide to make a political point.

Suppose there were no gay suicides? That would mean all the rest is OK?

And you can't blame other people for a suicide. We have to take that responsibility ourselves. If we don't, you've just handed the right wing a weapon. All they have to do is bully some more people. It's like encouraging them to do that. They'd be all too glad to take the "responsibility."

[EFerrari]

48. You couldn't be more wrong. n/t

[antigone382]

53. It is absolutely ignorant to argue that suicide does not have a substantial cultural component.

There's a reason suicide is more prevalent in certain cultures, among certain demographics, at certain times in history. Going back to one of the earliest and most iconic examples of social research, Emile Durkheim found that suicide was mostly a function of one's integration into society. For a more recent example, look at dowry death in India: women being harrassed and threatened to secure more dowry payments from their families to their husbands' families frequently commit suicide. Sure, they probably are depressed, but I'm pretty positive the likelihood of being doused with kerosene and burned alive, or defaced with battery acid, might have something to do with that depression.

There are any number of scenarios in which suicide can seem like the most logical option, even to an otherwise psychologically healthy person.GLBT youth are known to have a much higher suicide rate than is typical for their age group. That isn't a purely clinical problem, and it can't be traced solely to a chemical imbalance--it has to do with the culture in which these people are trying to meet their basic human needs.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. VERY well said! BRAVA!!!!

:applause:

[racaulk]

58. That is an absolutely fantastic post!

I'm sure your post will fall on deaf ears with the person you're replying to, but speaking as someone who was once a very depressed and suicidal gay teenager, I think you're spot on with your comments.

Thank you! :thumbsup:

[superduperfarleft]

36. Unbelievable.

"alienate your allies"

:eyes:

[The Philosopher]

40. Nice

Can't blame suicide on others, but you can blame suicide on depression!

This sort of ignorance is dangerous. There are various reasons for suicide, all which should be addressed and not dismissed.

[Touchdown]

42. I can accept most of what you wrote as your opinion, but "Ally" is not one of them.

That crosses the line.

[treestar]

44. Then you have far fewer allies than you think

If you are determined to make opponents of the Democrats.

[Touchdown]

56. Are you threatening to get your girlfriends to spite us?

You are one person. You are not "the Democrats" by any stretch of the imagination.

I think we can survive losing you, and even your coffee klatch. We never had you to begin with.

[foxfeet]

43. Disingenuously ignorant post, full of the usual paternalistic BS.

Does your computer notify you whenever a thread on LGBTQI issues is underway? You have become a persistent poltergeist in these threads.

[QC]

50. I think there's an iPhone app for that now. n/t

[racaulk]

60. Ain't that the truth?

It's amazing how the usual suspects show up in threads on GLBTQI topics with incredible regularity, almost always with negative/contrarian remarks.

It makes one wonder why they keep getting away with it.

[donco6]

51. When they act like allies, they'll be allies.

Stating that you don't think gays should be allowed to marry isn't being an ally. That's not really so hard to understand is it?

[justiceischeap]

62. Educate yourself before spouting off about things you know nothing about

"A number of factors are associated with the risk of suicide including: mental illness, drug addiction, and socio-economic factors. While external circumstances, such as a traumatic event, may trigger suicide it does not seem to be an independent cause. Thus suicides are more likely to occur during periods of socioeconomic, familial and individual crisis." Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#Causes

Being told you aren't worthy, worrying whether or not you'll be disowned by your family, fearing that you'll be beaten because you're gay, not being able to date who you'd like, being bullied, being called names on a daily basis (I could go on with this list) I imagine would lead to a friggin' familial and / or individual crisis. You can have otherwise mentally healthy kids who feel helpless and hopeless from the things listed above and if they have no one they feel safe turning to, then it's no wonder they think that killing themselves is their only option. Then having someone like you minimizing what actually happens to GLBTQI individuals only makes matters worse.

I've had experience with this issue and you're attitude is why most gay kids try to kill themselves--because they've been told continuously that they are on their own over and over and over.

The original poster is indeed correct, Dems have not helped as much as they could/should have in regards to human civil rights for gay people. Instead, they have voted to discriminate against us or whined that gays cost dems elections, that our rights aren't as urgent or as important as other issues, that we should just shut up and be happy with what we have (these are all things I've seen written on DU by proclaimed Dems). It's no wonder we (and our allies) get pissed off at people who are supposed to be on our side of the issues. We are not to blame for wanting what everyone else has the freedoms and rights to enjoy and telling us to shut up or that by shining the light on the issues that we're a squeaky wheel that needs to shut up does no one any good.

[Smashcut]

74. GOSH WE'RE SO LUCKY TO HAVE YOU!

I get it now! Suicide is the fault of those gay teenagers for not dealing with the depression caused by bombardment with negative messages about their identity (and violence and threats of violence) more effectively!

Thank you, straight person, thank you!!!

:loveya:

[NMMNG]

75. LGBT individuals suffer higher rates of depression

and substance abuse. This is directly attributable to anti-gay bigotry.

The problem isn't just generic depression and people who have poor coping skills. The problem is anti-gay bigotry (including anti-gay legislation), the people who directly engage in it, and those who enable it (such as when they deny the toxic effects of homophobia).

How dare you accuse us of exploiting this politically?

[dsc]

78. that is such a load of crap

I have, to my knowledge, no depression. I have never been on meds for depression or other mental illness. But I did come very close to committing suicide. I was desperate to not be outed as gay and was about to be. So I very nearly did kill myself. Not out of depression but out of fear.

[demmiblue]

84. I'm thinking that you do not like gay people (not just based on this)

[QC]

95. There is a definite pattern, isn't there? n/t

[readmoreoften]

87. Fine I wish I could unrec you off the planet. You are no ally of the LGBT community.

When you're more of an enemy than the Log Cabin Republicans, you've reached the point of FAIL. I consider you as much of an enemy as any Republican. Why? Because you act with the malice and violence of an enemy.

[VMI Dem]

25. Rec. The leader of our country has a shameful record on LGBT rights.

Many like to gloss over this fact.

[Catherina]

27. Rec'd. This must change. n/t

[terrya]

31. Thank you. This is an excellent post. Recommended.

I've seen many of the "It Gets Better" videos. I have gotten a lump in my throat seeing every single one...regardless of whether they're celebrities or ordinary Americans. Because I hope that at least some LGBT kid saw one of those and changed his/her mind about committing suicide.

LGBT suicide isn't a new phenomenon. We've lost so many kids from suicide over the decades. It's heartbreaking to realize how many. Even one is heartbreaking.

The culture of homophobia...that causes kids to commit suicide...isn't, as you said, solely a Republican or conservative problem. It's OUR problem. I wish more people would realize it.

Thank you so much for posting this.

[xchrom]

33. Recommend - my but there some sensitive people here.

Must have hit a nerve.

[QC]

34. Oh well, in all fairness, you would get the same reaction

if you went to a Justin Bieber fanboard and called him a doodoohead :+

[TriMera]

39. So true!

:toast:

[foxfeet]

61. I think I love you!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Cleobulus]

37. What do you expect from a party whose chairman is a known homophobe, Tim Kaine...

seriously, who are the Democrats trying to fool here?

[The Philosopher]

38. I wonder

How many of us Democrats would be for LGBT in primary education. LGBT books, educational days, etc.

I got to wondering last night how many people say to their LGBT friends, "If my four year old child turned out gay or transgender, I would be okay with that. It's his/her choice." Then I wondered how many of them tell their child that. If Barbie can have Ken at young ages, then a young boy can dream of being saved by a handsome prince in a far-away land.

We're told from a young age, through silence, through propaganda, through forced cultural norms, that we're supposed to have sex and marriage with the opposite gender AND LIKE IT and now as adults we're being told to not be so aggressive about our rights as a human being.

[Confusious]

66. Maybe 'cause 90% of people on this earth are straight?

We're told from a young age, through silence, through propaganda, through forced cultural norms, that we're supposed to have sex and marriage with the opposite gender AND LIKE IT and now as adults we're being told to not be so aggressive about our rights as a human being.

A forced cultural norm would be wearing whigs or pantaloons. Being straight is not a forced cultural norm because most of us are. And most of us know it from a young age. It's not the adults forcing girl-boy on you, it's peers. If you want to question that, the last time I remember, anyone who tried to teach kids anything about sex found themselves in hot water. whether gay or straight.

I also remember being a kid of 4 or 5, and not understanding or really giving a rat's ass about the differences between the sexes. I just wanted to play with my toys. And if my cousin kirsten played with me, it was even better.

This "cultural norm" thing is really starting to go off the deep end when you get into things that are inherent in people.

We're told from a young age, through silence, through propaganda, through forced cultural norms, that women have babies

because men don't have the equipment. yea, it's that ridiculous.

[The Philosopher]

90. Those are

very ignorant statements. Also, it's very nice that you altered one of my quotes to mean something I did not blatantly write. Your bigoted attitude is going to end up hurting children, because you assume to much about them, because you refuse to see what's going on. Your excuses are dangerous. And wholly anti-Democratic value.

[Confusious]

93. I assume nothing, and you think there's more going on then there is

As for your quote, I thought I made it obvious that it was an example of how ridiculous your statement was.

You seem to want to force everyone to bow to your view of things ( such as "having sex with someone of the opposite sex is icky", I think someone used those words for gays. Well everything has it's opposite. ), even if they don't agree. If I disagree, you call me a bigot or anti-democratic.

Usual tripe from someone who has no argument.

[H2O Man]

41. Recommended.

I agree 100%.

There's a situation that I'm dealing with now that I am considering writing about. Your OP and some of the responses show me that I need to do that. I will address the topic on another OP, as I do not want to distract from this.

Thank you.

[struggle4progress]

46. Copycat suicide

... The well-known suicide serves as a model, in the absence of protective factors, for the next suicide. They occasionally spread through a schoolsystem, through a community, or ... nationally .... Publishing the means of suicides, romanticized and sensationalized reporting, particularly about celebrities, suggestions that there is an epidemic, glorifying the deceased and simplifying the reasons all lead to increases in the suicide rate ... http://en.wikipedia.org/Copycat_suicide

Copycat Suicides: What's The Media's Role?
... The latest report, a British study published online Wednesday in the journal PLoS One, used a computer simulation to test the power of that effect and found that the Internet may be amplifying the problem by extending the reach of such news, and elevating more and more people to celebrity status ... The study's author, University of London psychologist Alex Mesoudi, urges reporters to follow the sort of guidelines the World Health Organization and others endorse for coverage of any suicide: Use extreme restraint in covering these deaths — keep the word "suicide" out of the headline, don't release details or romanticize the death, limit the number of stories, and bury whatever stories you run in the middle of the paper or the broadcast. But such guidelines are "outdated and anachronistic in the Facebook age," points out columnist Andre Picard, in Canada's Globe and Mail. For example, minutes after a University of Ottawa student killed himself two weeks ago, word of that death was skipping around campus electronically, Picard notes. The school newspaper, The Fulcrum, quickly published a story that included the student's name, but focused mostly on where to get counseling and mental health services on campus ... http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/09/copycat_suicides_whats_the_med.html

4:51 PM Apr. 15, 2005
Covering Teen Suicide: One Paper's Decision
By Barbara Walsh (More articles by this author)
Staff Writer, Portland Press Herald
... As I began talking to Timmy's friends and family, I also spoke with several national suicide prevention experts like Berman. They warned me that every word I chose, every detail I used could have dire consequences. My articles, they explained, could prompt other vulnerable kids to take their own lives. They cautioned that details of Timmy's death should not be used because it could cause other depressed youths to kill themselves. They also said that I should be careful not to glamorize Timmy's suicide or to simplify the reason he killed himself ... http://www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=79946

Help the media prevent copycat suicides
October 2003, Vol 34, No. 9
Print version: page 14
... Give fact-oriented quotes and stress that treatable mental health problems underlie many suicides .... including details about the method of a suicide, signaling suicide in the headline, printing photos of a suicide victim and glorifying the act can encourage readers and viewers to follow through on suicidal thoughts ... http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct03/media.aspx

Suicide and the Media - The reporting and portrayal of suicide in the media - a resource
Date of publication: 1999
HP 3323
... This resource provides information to assist the media to report and portray suicide safely. It outlines some key considerations when reporting suicide, such as:
- avoid inadvertently glorifying suicide
- include reliable information and information on where to go for help ...
http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/0/a72dcd5037cfe4c3cc256bb5000341e9?OpenDocument

[FreeState]

49. Its estimated that 4000 GLBT teens commit suicide every year - its not copy cat its epidemic n/t

[cbdo2007]

55. Where did you get that number from?

[struggle4progress]

59. Check your statistics: in 2005, about 4200 youth aged 15-24 committed suicide

so it's unlikely that "4000 GLBT teens commit suicide every year" here in the US, though I might believe on statistical grounds that something like that number make suicide plans or some suicide attempt; see http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

There's actually probably something like a GLBT teen suicide a day, again a guess on statistical grounds. As a general rule, I'd expect the same public health strategies for reducing teen suicide to work to reduce GLBT teen suicide: this means making sure people know about mental health services and reducing availability of guns; it also means encouraging media to handle suicide news responsibly, and since many teens are connected to internet it probably also means that internet groups should be responsible in discussing suicide news

Clusters of copycat suicides have been observed for many years in many countries. Anyone really interested in suicide prevention will try to avoid discussing suicide news in ways that might encourage copycat suicides. It looks to me like we just had a national cluster of copycat GLBT driven-to-it-by-bullying youth suicides in September. I don't doubt that bullying is a stressor in many lives, and I'll happy if we can find effective ways to reduce bullying. But not everybody bullied commits suicide, and when a number of GLBT kids kill themselves in a short time period with the same explanation "I was driven to it by bullying," one ought to wonder what role media coverage plays in popularizing the idea

[FreeState]

63. Thanks - I was going off a post here I cant find now...

However you can see the numbers quoted in many of the articles here: http://www.soulforce.org/article/653 (although the 4000 number is not quoted the numbers used on the post her on DU a few weeks ago are the same 30000 and 5000).

http://www.soulforce.org/article/653

[rucky]

68. How should the media handle it?

Should it be covered to bring attention to it, or not covered to prevent copycats?

Tough call.

[FreeState]

71. There is no evidence of copycat suicides happening currently with GLBT youth

There is however substantial evidence eduction decreases harassment.

[struggle4progress]

73. I posted links upthread in my #46

Standard advice seems to include:

* avoiding language that makes the suicide sound positive (e.g. "successful suicide attempt") or makes the suicide sound like the victim thereby took control of his/her life (e.g. "died by suicide" may be preferable to "committed suicide")
* avoid giving too much information about method
* avoid sensationalizing (e.g. inner placement may be preferable to prominent front-page above-the-fold): the thinking here seems to be that suicide attempts can be a call for help, and "I can get attention by trying to kill myself" is not an idea one wants to reinforce
* make sure discussion includes useful local information about getting help from mental health professionals

[dsc]

80. It would be pretty hard to make a case for these being copy cats

Most of the suicides happened before the massive publicity (remember Seth tried to hang himself and lasted for several days before dying). Tyler's which was like the 6th was the first one to get massive publicity and only one took place after.

[struggle4progress]

89. It's entirely natural to suspect Justin Aaberg's July death by suicide

was influenced by other suicides he knew about:

... Five other students in his Anoka-Hennepin school district have killed themselves in the past year, and gay-rights advocates say bullying may have played a role in two of these cases as well ...
Suicide surge: Schools confront anti-gay bullying after deaths of Tyler Clementi and other youths
By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/gaysouthflorida/2010/10/suicide-surge-schools-confront-anti-gay-bullying-after-deaths-of-tyler-clementi-and-other-youths.html#ixzz12GH9FOOt

You'll have no difficulty finding August and early September coverage of that death

[ruggerson]

47. recommended Prism

thank you.

[ieoeja]

52. Had the State of New York responded to Stonewall by divesting the state of its sodomy laws....

In most of the United States today, being born Gay would make you a crminal.

In my personal opinion, any LGBT individual who wants DOMA and DADT overturned by Congress is not thinking it through. It would be infinitely better that the Constitutional equality of LGBT individuals be established.

You would think the California example would drive this lesson home. No equal rights according to the state legislature. Equal rights for a couple years. No equal rights after the next election. Maybe equal rights after another election? And then the election after that...?

[JoeyT]

57. K&R

Bigotry in any form is unacceptable. Even the soft kind.

Anyone that doesn't support full GLBT rights or supports politicians that don't is a bigot. That's what you call it when someone thinks a section of the population isn't as important as the rest. It makes them a soft bigot, but soft bigots are what allow the violent and hateful bigots to not only exist, but thrive.

[Stinky The Clown]

64. K&R. This is important.

[Starry Messenger]

65. k & r

[Naturyl]

67. You're right. And the poor are in the exact same boat.

There are several groups of people for whom Democrats are often not much better than Republicans.

And that is what we, as progressives, need to change - starting right here in our own party.

[chillspike]

69. K&R

[NMMNG]

72. Well stated

But it will fall on deaf (and hostile) ears. Nobody wants to admit their own complicity in keeping LGBT people second-class citizens. They don't want to recognize the fact that every time they dismiss our needs, our rights, and the hell we endure, that they are reinforcing the notion that we deserve what we get. They want to pretend they're just being fair and balanced when they call virulent homophobia a "different point of view" and insist we should tolerate it.

LGBT youth are dying in droves thanks to the toxic environment that active bigots create, and passive bigots allow. Yet we're the assholes because we beg for change.

[Starry Messenger]

76. kick.

[stevenleser]

77. I agree. Very upsetting. And I'm very embarrassed it took the log cabins to stop dismissals under

DADT

[defendandprotect]

79. Every day that DADT stands is a message of condoning hatred/intolerance for gays....

and that they are lesser citizens -- lesser soldiers --

and, therefore, if they are abused who will care -- !!

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

83. I'll add that some democrats need to recognize their part in promoting a culture where bullying in

general is ok.

Personal denigration & delegitimization = bullying.

[readmoreoften]

85. Fuck yes they do. They have as much blood on their hands as Republicans.

40 fucking years of utter cowardice and failure: starting with Ed Koch's use of the gay community in the 1970s--only to turn around and sic the cops on us. The "pony" bullshit from the "it's just a song" brigade have missed the forest AND the trees through their soft focus history lens. This year everyone from rogue Republican judges and lawyers to socialist agitators have done more for us than the Democratic Leadership has in the past fucking half century. It would be hard to find a group of people more morally bankrupt on LGBT issues than the Democratic Party. There is only one group worse on the issue: Tea Party Republicans. And that's what keeps the Democrats in business these days. Oh of course, there are a few good eggs left in the Democratic basket, but the majority are cowards that wouldn't recognize a platform if it collapsed from underneath them.

Why all the crying and the handwringing when a rash of gay kids off themselves? I thought the Rick Warren "gays are like pedophiles" message was a fine message to have on the stage beside Obama?

I think it's fair to say that while there are individual Democrats that I like and support, I think the party as a whole is a disaster--powdered sugar sprinkled over empty space where a fucking platform is supposed to be.

And too all you "gays didn't get your ponies" folks. We were trying to get those ponies for the kids that blew their fucking brains out this week. We were trying to get those ponies for the lesbians being sexually assaulted by officers who blackmail them with DADT. And no, you didn't give us any ponies. You've never given us a goddamn thing. Everything we've won, we've won outside the Party, with the help of our straight allies in the streets, in the workplace, in our unions, in our churches. We're carrying you. Not the other way around. We don't owe you shit. You owe us a few million in HRC donations. So take your fucking pony and donate it to the next gay kid who commits suicide because of the tone YOU have set in this nation. Not the Tea Party: YOU.

[Mimosa]

91. Gays, Lesbians and transgender people historically have had higher suicide rates

The change which is becoming obvious is that the culture changes. Teenagers started coming out. We LGBT people traditionally didn't used to come out to even ourselves until we were in our early 20s or even later.

Now that the culture actually became more open, kids started coming out. And they have gotten an onslaught of rejection for being different from the majority. The Republicans and far right had begun in the 1980s to exploit gays new openness as a wedge issue. Pure bigotry combined with political opportunism.

I cannot 'blame' Democrats. I was a fighter for gay rights in the early to late 1970s. We've come a long way.

Read More Often, I understand what you mean about Obama sucking up to Rick Warren, hater in chief. That was wrong. And i still wonder how much good will there really is in this administration towards gays.

[jonnyblitz]

92. ...

:kick:

[Jamastiene]

94. And yet, some here in this very thread are saying it is copycat

suicides, like they think it is the latest gay fad or something, and that if the media quits covering it, no more gay youth will commit suicide.

Out of sight, out of mind.

Like if the media quits covering it, for them, it will mean it has magically quit happening. It is almost like the news is keeping this issue in their faces and they cannot stick their heads in the sand and ignore it any longer. Ridiculous!

In fact, gay teen suicide (and suicide attempts) HAVE ALREADY been happening before the media said anything about it and it will keep happening AFTER the media quits talking about it.

Until the issues that face our gay youth are dealt with, and that especially includes the bullying and continual negative messages and negative stereotypes they have to see, hear, and experience, the problem will continue.

I'm too late to Recommend your post, but not too late to :kick: It is time even the Democratic Party faced the fact that in order to be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem, it needs to step the fuck up and stop screaming "pet issues" and "pony" every time we try to talk about our issues.