Not to Piss on the success of the Miners being saved

[DearAbby]

It's wonderful.

But I wonder why Our Miners Die?

[WhiteTara]

1. same reason their leader stayed until the end

and ours never go to begin with. We are aiming for the lowest common denominator.

[Pirate Smile]

17. Our media and opposing political party would never attack a US leader as just doing it for political

reasons, using it for a photo op or getting in the way.

It is because our leaders suck so bad, as does our country. :eyes:

[MineralMan]

2. Mining is a dangerous job. Miners die everywhere there are mines.

When there are miners trapped in mines in the US, every effort is made to save them, just as in Chile. You may have forgotten the many successful mine rescues in the United States.

Unrecommended for fact-free posting.

[atreides1]

24. But it's unfortunate...

...that every effort isn't made to provide them with a safe work environment initially.

[MineralMan]

27. There's no question about that. Mining conditions in

privately-owned mines in Chile are horrendous. They're not so great in the US, either.

That, however, is a different issue.

[Cleita]

35. Actually having lived in Chile in a mining town, I found

the large mines to be pretty modern and well equipped whether operated by Chileans or foreign interests and this was before many of them were nationalized. I was shocked when I made a point of traveling through the West here in the USA visiting mines both defunct and still operating at how substandard their operations were compared to the most productive Chilean mines. Like any enterprises that are privately owned, the quality varies according to the owners. Frankly, I have never seen in Chile mines as decrepit as I have seen in Idaho, Nevada and parts of Arizona but then I didn't visit all of them.

So please stop saying they are horrendous. Your meme is coming strictly out of Butte, Montana, the meme being "that all those wogs in South America need the great American know how to run things". The fact is the American owned interests there wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the know how of the Chilean miners and engineers who knew their terrain in the Martian landscape of the Atacama desert and at high altitudes to bridge the gap between knowledge of extracting ores in those conditions and the investment money the Americans brought with. This was a fact my father, an American, was very aware of.

It would be just better to say that any miner who goes into the tunnel or the pit every morning knows it may be his last day and he might not come out. It's just one of those kind of jobs. In the mine my dad worked at, they detonated every day at two in the afternoon. The blast always caused a mini-earthquake similar to a sonic-boom. If there was one of those at any other time of the day, we knew there had been an accident. It would be a matter of hours of nail-biting before the families would know what happened and who was affected. I do know the two in the afternoon rule was imposed by the Chilean government because the American bosses complained about not being able to set off blasts when they wanted to.

[blondeatlast]

3. Union-busting and deregulation kill; it's as simple as that, I'm afraid. nt

[DearAbby]

5. !

[Cleita]

36. The Chilean miners are well represented by unions and I noticed

they had a representatives from Codelco which is the government run mines in Chile, which maintains high standards of safety, even wining awards. I'm sure, since the rescue was taken over by the government, the Codelco representatives have been behind making sure this rescue was pulled off for the safety of the miners not the bottom-line of the company. Of course this is something you aren't hearing from our intrepid reporters down on the scene there because they can't seem to ask the right questions.

The Chilean mines have always been unionized since the forties. I worked in the industrial relations department in the summers when I came home from school during summer break as a translator since I was bilingual when my dad worked in a copper mine in Chile. We dealt with the unions who leaders and members were mostly communists. That was a dirty word back in the fifties especially among the American interests, but it was out in the open there. It was from the union leaders that I learned the difference between socialism type communism and the Soviet style communism while I chatted with them while they waited to see the boss.

[eShirl]

4. Because every situation is different.

[joeybee12]

6. I'm very impressed at how they're handling this down there...and yeah,

compare it to ours when even after the fact Massey mining is trying to interfere with the ongoing investigation.

[DearAbby]

10. I am too

They worked a miracle, first successful extraction of Miners underground for that length of time. They took the precautions in the first place to do something like this. The actually cared about the safety of their workers.

[kirby]

7. God Hates Them

That must be the only logical conclusion since so many people call this a miracle.

[KharmaTrain]

8. The Greed Factor

Our mining "safety" is among the worst and deliberately kept that way. Unlike the mines in Chile that yield gold, silver and copper, ours are mostly coal that fetches far less and thus mineowners make up in quantity...and if that means corners being cut and miners die, so be it. The cost of doing business in America.

[seabeyond]

9. us americans are filthy pieces of shit that turn our back on each other and let die? nt

[lame54]

11. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Cleanelec]

12. Research is your friend

http://www.usmra.com/successstories.htm#unitedstates

[CBR]

13. Quecreek Mine Rescue in PA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quecreek_Mine_Rescue

"The Quecreek Mine Rescue took place in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, when nine miners were trapped underground for over 78 hours, from July 24 to 28, 2002. All nine miners were rescued."

[OmahaBlueDog]

14. Our miners tend to get trapped in coal mines. This is a gold/copper mine

Coal mines often have additional hazards, such as poison gas in the mine. Having said this, mining engineers will use the Chilean mine as a case study for what is possible in saving miners.

[DearAbby]

16. Unions could help bring this about. n/t

[blondeatlast]

21. I think you mean more Union representation of the miners.

Your sentence could read that the unions are causing this.... :hi:

[DearAbby]

32. Indeed and thanks

you know what I meant :hi:

[Pirate Smile]

15. Because the United States sucks!!! It has nothing to do with the specifics of each disaster and

whether there is a way for them to survive. :eyes:

[CBR]

18. Don't ya know. We Americans are just total losers, shitty at

everything and the worst of the world!!! Too bad an American was instrumental in the Chilean mine disaster -- he didn't live up to our shitty standard.

[Pirate Smile]

20. I know. There are two themes today - the US sucks and Democrats suck. I picked that up real quick.

;)

[seabeyond]

22. christian sucks. have a good thread on that one. but that mixes both u.s. sucks and christian suck

they did not want to be out done.

maybe we will get some dem sucks in that thread too. maybe already there.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Theirs do too...

<...>
"While the 33 trapped miners have gained fame and drawn television crews from as far as China, England, and the United States, another 33 have died anonymously in Chilean mines this year, according to the government safety agency. The country is the world's biggest copper producer, with most of the production coming from a few tremendous mines. Most of the injuries and deaths are in smaller projects, according to the mining regulator known as Sernageomin."
<...>
"I've never heard of anyone doing something wrong at a high level, public or private, going to jail," says Armen Kouyoumdjian, a Chile-based risk analyst who has covered the country for 35 years. A private lawsuit is unlikely to have much effect without government help, he says, as cases drag on for so long that even when the process works, it is often too late to help the survivors of an accident.
<...>
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/1008/As-Chile-mine-rescue-nears-families-pressure-government-to-reform-industry

A BBC report said there are only 4 Chilean mine inspectors for over 1,500 mines. And, should the miners, or their survivors, sue, the usual response is for the mine operator to go bankrupt and not pay anything.

[seabeyond]

23. must be a "MIRACLE" that these miners survived. lmao. nt

[Cleanelec]

26. Maybe it was

[DearAbby]

25. No one said AMERICA SUCKS

Nothing was said about Democrats.

What I am saying if we had strong unions, we would have safety in the workplace. This would include our mines. Granted nothing is 100% but look at the Massey crap. And he is still allowed to own mines, with safety violations, with only a phucking slap on the wrist. (which he ignores)

PURE GREED.

[seabeyond]

28. PURE GREED.... world wide. from beginning of time. not exclusively owned by u.s. nt

[blondeatlast]

29. How dare you!

How dare you promote responsible labor safety regulation and strong union representation on a left wing board?

[DearAbby]

30. Seriously

I wonder if this is DU, I actually clicked out and back in again. Just to make sure.

[seabeyond]

33. right... cause this is not what duer put out in op and now shifting. how dare us.... pretend not

to be obtuse.

shwo me a duer fighting safety for worker.

[Zax2me]

31. I give up...why?

Our firefighters, rescue workers suck?
Or, how about each situation is different, and maybe we should not make blanket assumptions like our miners die. Some do? Duh!

Geez, what is it with these threads attacking our rescue personnel...some reaching to take a shot at the country? ahh...

[DearAbby]

34. Nothing was said about the rescue workers either

Read down thread and its about the greed of the mine owners and the busting Unions.