Two BIG reasons the phrase, "lifestyle choice" is offensive...

[Jamastiene]

and downright dangerous. Yes, I said it is DANGEROUS to insinuate that there is some choice involved here. Lifestyle is another story, but the choice part of the phrase, that so many repeatedly use, is downright dangerous to gay people. I will explain why later in this post.

First, let's get that whole "lifestyle" meme out of the way.

It is very simple:
To insinuate that gay people have a "lifestyle" that is somehow different than the straight community is to totally ignore the fact that we are not some monolithic group. We are not all the same. Some of us live in rural areas. Some of us live in suburban areas. Some of us live in cities. Some do not even have homes. Did you know that a lot of gay kids end up homeless?

We do not even all agree on what to eat. Some of us are vegans. Some are vegetarians. Some are meat eaters. Some of us were meat eaters but have decided to cut down on the meat and have vegetarian dishes several nights a week for a.) no other reason than we just want to or b.) for other reasons not specified.

Some of us like one type of clothing. Others like another type of clothing. At least one of us does not like clothing at all. <---that would be me

Some of us like one style of music. Others like another style of music. No, we don't all like disco. Some of us would rather listen to punk and balls to the wall metal. :headbang: <----me

So, we do not all have one uniform, single file, chop chop, get in line "gay lifestyle." We aren't that into marching lockstep with anyone or anything. The Log Cabin Republicans might be into it somewhat, but don't ask me to explain them or what they do or don't do. I cannot.

So, that "gay lifestyle" thing ain't happening. I would wager to state that it never will either. Talk about herding cats!!! It just would not work.

Got that whole "lifestyle" thing out of the way. Good.

---

Second, on to the dangerous part...the word, "choice."

Where do I get that the word choice is dangerous?

Here:
"Mainstream medical bodies* state that conversion therapy can be harmful because it may exploit guilt and anxiety, thereby damaging self-esteem and leading to depression and even suicide."

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy#American_medical_consensus

The word, "choice," implies that being gay is somehow "changeable." It is not. As a matter of fact, trying to change someone from being gay is dangerous. It may lead to depression and suicide, as stated above.

*Some of those "mainstream medical bodies" include:
American Medical Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy
American Counseling Association
National Association of Social Workers
American Academy of Pediatrics
National Association of School Psychologists
American Academy of Physician Assistants.

The names noted above and the sources to their statements are listed here in one group of links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy#cite_note-nytconversion-85

Sources cited in this particular finding are:
8, 86, 88, and 89

<snip>

---

I hope just a few people who believe that whole "lifestyle choice" phrase is no big deal will read this and pay attention.

THIS is why we object to that phrase and find it offensive.

[ZombieHorde]

1. Recommended. nt

[cliffordu]

2. K&R.

[Solly Mack]

3. k/r

[Prism]

4. Very important information. Rec'd.

This isn't some odd slip of the tongue. This is a worldview that has been used, promoted, and perpetuated in order to persecute LGBTers, and especially our youth via religious conversion therapies and other harmful programs.

The fact one of the President's closest friends and advisers doesn't know that, that she felt comfortable saying that phrase, is deeply, deeply troubling.

And the people who think this is no big deal betray their total ignorance of our community, our lives, and the insidious forces that have hounded, hurt, and even killed us because of the sick views disseminated by those who believe orientation is a choice.

[dgibby]

21. Unfortunately,

I don't think it's a matter of ignorance as much as it is a "lifestyle choice" to be deliberately obtuse. You're much too kind.

[myrna minx]

5. Thank you for posting this.

:applause: I can't believe the admin would be so ignorant and that people here would defend it. These poor children didn't 'choose' to be bullied to death.

[democracy1st]

8. I can beleive it...Goldman Sachs owns this admin!

[tavalon]

6. I completely agree with you

but since I was around in the '70s when this "question" was being debated, I wanted to add a little historical footnote. Back then, there were many gay people who were afraid of the genetic argument winning because back then, it was believed that changing one's genetics was just around the corner and they were afraid that people would abort and or change gay fetuses and there would be no more gays. Blessedly, that ability hasn't come around as quickly as we thought in the '70s and now I think tolerance and acceptance of gayness has made such leaps and bounds (despite the stridency of the moment - those are actually the frantic screams of those who realize they have lost this war simply by attrition. Ask a 10 year old if it's wrong for two women or two men to marry each other and unless they have fundie parents, they will look at you like you're an idiot. It's magnificent) that the fear of admitting the obvious genetics of being gay is no longer around.

The battles right now around so many aspects of equality for gays (prop hate and the like) can sometimes mask the unmistakable truth that the war is already won. That doesn't mean the fighting for the rights should stop because the more we fight, the quicker this becomes an awful footnote, like slavery, but footnote it will be.

[MrScorpio]

7. Can same sex curiosity be classified as a choice?

It's a given that someone who knows for a fact that they're not straight doesn't choose not to be straight, it's just that they simply aren't.

But what about otherwise straight people who want to see how the other half lives, could that be classified as a matter of choice?

You say it's simple and, yes, in the case of actual gay, lesbian, transgendered, bi and intersexed individuals, you are quite correct about it not being a lifestyle choice. However, human sexuality is very complex indeed and I'm not sure if certain concrete standards can be applied to everyone.

Even between the genders. I've read somewhere that in relationships, some otherwise straight women are more apt to disregard the gender of their partner. Which may or may not explain the phenomena of "college age lesbianism" by otherwise straight women.

So, is choice NEVER a consideration, even in the circumstance of same-sex curiosity by otherwise straight people, or is it so remote a phenomena that it shouldn't be considered as part of the equation?

And of course, I'm not referring anyone who's specifically bi, just those straights who act on their own bi-curiosity, without committing to bi-sexuality in the long run.

I hope that you're not offended by this question, I'm merely trying to gain clarity.

[Betty Karlson]

9. Scorpio, please

You are making this into a black-and-white question. Don't do that: it's disrespectful.

Even if sexuality was a continuum, with everyone having a given percentage of same-sex interest (between 0 % and 100 %), people would still not be choosing their own position in that continuum. It is therefore wrong to assume that anyone can adjust their preferences. And that is precisely what the words "lifestyle choice" imply. And that is why that hurtfull Ms Jarrett needs to go and spend more time with her obviously bigoted family.

[MrScorpio]

11. So you're saying that there is no choice whatsoever at any level of same sex behavior

No prob, all I was looking for was an answer.

Again, it's not that I meant to either offend or disrespect.

It's just that I had a question about something in the OP and I just wanted to assuage my own curiosity about it.

Thanks for your reply.

[Betty Karlson]

19. no choice at the level of same sex interest

whether or not someone behaves accordingly is a matter of honesty to her-/ himself, honesty to his/ her loved ones, etcetera. But the interest itself is no matter of choice. And if someone acts on that interest without any obligation to a significant other, I see no reason to consider that any less respectfully than the "opting" for the usual same-sex stuff.

[myrna minx]

14. Thank you for this wonderful answer.

:hi:

[Betty Karlson]

18. * waves back*

you are welcome.

[Bluebear]

26. 'I hope that you're not offended by this question' - so passive aggressive about all things gay

/ignore at last

Enough disrespect from you.

[Sweet Charming Dem]

37. Everything I've seen from this poster about gay issues is either passive aggressive or dismissive

[Sweet Charming Dem]

32. As a general rule, I find that whenever somebody says, "I hope you're not offended..."

It's either preceded by or followed by something offensive.

Once again, that rule holds true.

[NMMNG]

42. ....

[glowing]

51. I believe that is called try-sexual.. Like try anything once...

Its very acceptable for women more than men to make out or have that three-some just because.. and its ok. I know FOX is all tsk tsk.. but its been known to happen on more than one college campus... Probably on The Real World too. LOL.

[PVnRT]

10. K&R

[xchrom]

12. It is a phrase that pathologizes us.

We are silly or we can be cured or it's a phase, etc.

But most of all it makes us out to be Less.
Less than everyone else.

[Dappleganger]

13. K&R

There's nothing to fix and there is nothing to choose.

[Flipper999]

15. "Lifestyle choice" is a verbal cudgel.

Homophobes just repeat it endlessly in an attempt to blame LGBT folks for the suffering that they endure... at the hands of homophobes.

[ruggerson]

16. recommended n/t

[QC]

17. I wish I could say that I am amazed someone would even have to explain this

on a Democratic board, but sadly, it's not amazing at all, or even mildly surprising.

K&R

[lightningandsnow]

20. Thank you!

[Catherina]

22. Thank you Jamastiene.

I'm sad that you even need to explain this but it was much needed. Thank you. Rec'd.

[joeybee12]

23. knr!

[amb123]

24. Absolutely. Homosexuality is LIFE, not a Lifestyle.

It is normal and natural. It is those who believe that it's not who are mentally ill.

[chervilant]

34. And,

those who act on this mental illness are sociopaths. We have to stop coddling bullies, and hold them responsible for their gay bashing, no matter that they assert their "naivete" or "innocence" or "just kidding." My ASS!

[racaulk]

25. K&R!!!

:applause:

[Bluenorthwest]

27. Very well said

I also hope people will have the respect to listen long enough to think a bit.

[Parker CA]

28. Fantastic postsomethings something many people outside DU should read. nt

[Ignis]

29. K&R. Thanks for spelling it out for the clueless.

Can you believe that this is even up for debate on a Lefty message board in 2010?

:wow:

[Jamastiene]

40. No, I cannot.

I would think they would have figured it out by now...or heard us the last time we explained it.

[treestar]

30. Why not tell whoever that even if it is a choice, you have a right to make it

and the rest have no right to interfere? I read an article in the Nation on that once, and it did argue rationally, I thought, that other consenting adults have the right to choose any living arrangement they want. It does not imply a right at attempt "conversion" necessarily. Maybe right wingers think so, but they think a lot of stupid things.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. R #50!

Great job. I am surprised how many are making light of this and other GLBT concerns...or am I? :shrug:

[blondeatlast]

33. Word. And LEADERS should know better, anyway. nt

[Radical Activist]

35. Yes, and since she was talking about suicide

it was an extremely stupid occasion to use that phrase. Based on her apology I think she understands why it was a mistake.

[anAustralianobserver]

36. Thanks, this is very clear.

[Starry Messenger]

38. Well done Jama.

+1000

[Qutzupalotl]

39. Choice is different from conversion therapy.

A choice is something YOU make. Conversion therapy is an outside force attempting to change you, often against your will. That's a huge difference, and your post makes it sound like you conflate the two.

[NMMNG]

41. I can't K&R this enough

:applause:

[foxfeet]

43. K&R

[PROchoiceGA]

44. K&R!!!

[Curmudgeoness]

45. Agreed. And another reason lifestyle choice is so stupid...

like anyone would actually choose to be ridiculed, treated like a second-class citizen, beat up, and made to feel as if they are not normal. Give me a break.

[DinahMoeHum]

46. IIRC, the only "lifestyle choice" involved with gays is whether or not

they will "come out of the closet".

Otherwise, I've come to an understanding that gays don't "choose" to be gay - they discover they ARE gay.

I may be straight - but I ain't narrow.

:evilfrown:

[Shining Jack]

47. Thanks!

:headbang: :yourock: :headbang:

[eridani]

48. Bingo. LGBT people do not have "lifestlyes"

(other than in recreational choices and the like). We have LIVES!

[ThomCat]

49. kick and recommend!

[saracat]

50. K+R +million! Very important post!

[6000eliot]

52. She apologized. Get over it.