Question to Valerie Jarrett- "Do you think being gay is a 'lifestyle choice'?"

[NJmaverick]

Here's her response:

In a recent interview I was asked about the recent tragedies about gay youth who have committed suicide, and I misspoke when I referred to someone's sexual identity as a "lifestyle choice." I meant no disrespect to the LGBT community, and I apologize to any who have taken offense at my poor choice of words. Sexual orientation and gender identity are not a choice, and anyone who knows me and my work over the years knows that I am a firm believer and supporter in the rights of LGBT Americans. Most of all, I hope this does not distract from the issue I was asked about -- the desperate, tragic decision by some young people who feel that their only recourse is to take their own lives because they are being bullied or harassed because they are gay, or because others believe they are gay. We must instill in young people respect for one another, and we must set an example of mutual regard and civility to create an environment that is safe for every person, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/10/valerie_jarrett_is_no_tony_per.html

[TexasObserver]

1. Better late than never.

[DURHAM D]

2. words, just words

[NJmaverick]

10. Isn't it all just words?

[Cali_Democrat]

163. It's more than words when a Dem says something wrong

Other than that, it's all just words even if the Dem corrects any misunderstanding ;)

[treestar]

173. Would you like to be treated that way by another group

Given no quarter over a verbal mistake? Geez. You may well say something offensive to any group of people some say without realizing it.

This unforgiving stance is not helpful or likely to attract any support.

[Cali_Democrat]

182. I don't agree with that stance...I think it's stupid

I'm merely pointing out that it's the way many people on this board feel.

I think it's lame :hi:

[treestar]

189. I must have responded in the wrong place

Reading your post, I don't see my response as being quite right! :hi:

[superduperfarleft]

188. You certainly seem concerned about teh gays "attracting support." n/t

[treestar]

191. You seem to not want any

support for the gays.

What's the point of this unforgiving approach? Just creates more heat and ill will.

I'm not a fan of people who don't accept apologies. At least over things of a verbal nature. That just seems to be hanging onto victimhood like it's a good thing.

[superduperfarleft]

194. Yeah, you've already made it pretty clear how conditional your support is.

And the idea that everyone else is as fair-weather an "ally" as you are is pure projection.

The Obama admin couldn't fire Shirley Sherrod fast enough for something she didn't say, and yet when Jarrett explicitly betrays her own prejudices, it's all supposed to be hunky-dory because she apologizes "for offending people," only after being called on it. Gee, I can't imagine why GLBT people are pissed off.

[treestar]

197. Quit attacking me personally and get to the point

Shirley was reinstated.

Why not forgive VJ?

[superduperfarleft]

199. Because she's not sorry, she's sorry that someone was offended.

And the reactions of some of the President's most unwavering supporters on this site to the very legitimate outrage that GLBT members are feeling has been disgusting.

I understand how people take offense to the term "cheerleader," but when those who are often accused of that can't even stop blindly defending this administration for five seconds to admit that calling homosexuality a "lifestyle choice" is bigoted and ignorant, it doesn't reflect well on them.

[Caliman73]

214. I agree with that. And have to add...

I hate when people say, "I am sorry if you were offended" which basically means "I am sorry if through your own fault my words or actions were taken in by you and you chose to become upset".

What the hell ever happened to, "I am sorry that I offended you" that's it. "I messed up, ME, I did it, not the way you took it, the way is said it".

"I am sorry, and I will do better in the future if you give me a chance" That is an apology.

[G_j]

208. if I was a Native American and someone used the term "manifest destiny"

to explain what happened to my people, I think I wouldn't be so forgiving.
Some phrases have no place in civil conversation.

The phrase she used was a bright red flag. Whether it be malicious or out of simple ignorance, there is no excuse.

[Ignis]

240. Ooh, nice analogy.

:thumbsup:

[butterfly77]

206. What else do you want?

[rocktivity]

3. It wasn't a "poor" choice of words, it was an inexcusably ignorant one in this day and age

particularly since your statement suggests that the "deathstyles" of those young people were the "consequences" of their making the "wrong" choice.

:mad:
rocktivity

[jaxx]

4. I'm glad she owned up to the poor choice of words. It was.

Thank you for posting this, I didn't think her speech had any snark in it.

[MineralMan]

5. Well, she's clarified her statement.

That's a good thing.

[Pirate Smile]

6. Let's include what Jonathan Capehart said about it:

Valerie Jarrett is no Tony Perkins

Valerie Jarrett, senior adviser to President Obama, has taken her lumps since my video interview with her was posted yesterday. We talked about infrastructure and her concern about the rash of nationally reported suicides of gay youth. Unfortunately, she trampled on that concern when she said that 13-year-old Justin Aarberg made a "lifestyle choice."

Contrary to the caustic comments on websites like firedoglake, I know Jarrett knows better than this. That's why I didn't correct her or ask her to explain herself during our sit-down at the White House. But viewers don't know her heart. They just know that what she said was offensive.

I e-mailed Jarrett last night and asked her a simple question, "Do you think being gay is a 'lifestyle choice'?" Here is her response in its entirety.

In a recent interview I was asked about the recent tragedies about gay youth who have committed suicide, and I misspoke when I referred to someone's sexual identity as a "lifestyle choice." I meant no disrespect to the LGBT community, and I apologize to any who have taken offense at my poor choice of words. Sexual orientation and gender identity are not a choice, and anyone who knows me and my work over the years knows that I am a firm believer and supporter in the rights of LGBT Americans. Most of all, I hope this does not distract from the issue I was asked about -- the desperate, tragic decision by some young people who feel that their only recourse is to take their own lives because they are being bullied or harassed because they are gay, or because others believe they are gay. We must instill in young people respect for one another, and we must set an example of mutual regard and civility to create an environment that is safe for every person, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Yes, Jarrett made a mistake. But those who think she and the president don't care about the rights of gay men and lesbians, don't give a damn about bullying and the tragedies of gay youth suicides are wrong. Jarrett is no Tony Perkins. She is no bigot.

By Jonathan Capehart | October 14, 2010; 7:19 AM ET

[Radical Activist]

16. He even called out FDL commenters.

I don't recall seeing that before.

[Barack_America]

32. I'm sure it's hard to find out someone you like may be a bigot....

...and even more difficult to realize they may be bigoted against you.

[NJmaverick]

36. You sound like you didn't even bother to listen to the interview

which is judging with out facts

[Barack_America]

52. What, pray tell, is the difference between reading the interview and listening to it?

Am I supposed to be swayed by the tone of her voice as she utters the "lifestyle choice" slur?

[DURHAM D]

127. Read the comments.

They are taking him to task for straw man setup and bs.

[Laf.La.Dem.]

7. Why

"I apologize to any who have taken offense at my poor choice of words"

Why not say I apologize for my poor choice of words!! Why must they ALWAYS add "to any who have taken offense" - EVERYONE should have taken offense to your words!!

[Egnever]

12. Nope sorry

It was a bad choice of words and thats all it was and it was clear in the context of the statement it was made inb that it wasnt meant to offend anyone. Only the extreme hypersensitive would have taken offense at what she said.

[butterfly77]

209. In reality..

EVERYONE doesn't and that relates to racism and any other ISMS.

[monmouth]

8. I thought a "lifestyle choice" referred to one who abused drugs, including

alcohol, a life of crime, excess in general, etc. I heard the term used a great deal in the past and had nothing to do with the LBGT community.

[Radical Activist]

9. Good. She needed to apologize and correct herself.

I didn't think it would take long for her to apologize.

[muffin1]

86. She's a SUPER lady!!

:puke:

[mod mom]

11. Glad to hear she apologized.

[grantcart]

13. As someone who misspeaks on a regular basis bravo for her quick

response.

Also it isn't a perfunctory apology but a well thought out one as well as this phrase shows "Most of all, I hope this does not distract from the issue I was asked about".

[racaulk]

14. I'm glad she apologized and clarified the intent of her statement.

She needed to.

[blondeatlast]

15. "...to anyone who may have taken offense..." Stop that shit, America. You're either apologetic or

you aren't.

You think I'd take that kind of apology from my kid? :banghead:

[Gormy Cuss]

158. +1 n/t

[Caliman73]

217. Correct

That kind of stupid language comes from that whole mindset and movement a while back where people were saying that others choose to be offended. I mean if I call someone a racial slur, I'm just putting it out there and if they choose to be offended well....

It is ridiculous. If you hurt someone then you should be sorry that you hurt them. The way people "apologize" today basically attempts to keep the responsibility away from the person who committed the offense and on the person or people offended. It is very sick.

[Betty Karlson]

17. Read the reactions to the blog (at the link)

It seems that this outburst of rage will not be subdued easily.

The main problem remains that a close adviser if the President, and his liaison to the GLBT community no less, is so clueless as to use a term that anyone caring about GLBT would have expressly avoided.

[Catherina]

27. I read them.

They only made me realize how obtuse or clueless many people here are.

[Catherina]

181. Too late to edit my post but I wanted to thank you for all your support

I wanted to highlight some of those response over here but you beat me to it with your comment. Thank you Betty :hi:

[VMI Dem]

18. Misspoke.

:rofl:

[Barack_America]

24. = rare moment of candor

In Washington, "misspoke" means "I screwed up and accidentally said exactly what I think".

[VMI Dem]

26. Exactly. How do you accidentally use the term lifestyle choice?

[NJmaverick]

30. If you had bothered to listen to the interview

instead of attacking her based on article, you wouldn't be asking this question.

[Renew Deal]

87. The same way you accidentally use "pro-life"

:shrug:

[alc]

19. how can you accidently say "lifestyle choice"

if you don't believe it? It's not like it's a rare or uncommon phrase that she heard somewhere but didn't understand so let it into her vocabulary.

[VMI Dem]

20. Bingo.

[NJmaverick]

31. No, you're wrong

[DURHAM D]

156. That's it?

An authoritarian denouncing of a point of view.

Well ok - us gay folks get your message: We Are Inferior and Subject To Your Rule.




Oh Hell The Great Straight One.

[NJmaverick]

29. Maybe if you watched the interview instead of making harsh judgments with out facts

you would have the answer to your question.

[G_j]

very simple, you can't

and the meaning of the phrase is perfectly clear.

[NJmaverick]

73. If only you went beyond the phrase and bothered to get some context

[treestar]

192. I'm sure people can do that

It's one of those things that if you are educated in left wing politics, you know what not to say.

But it does seem unreasonable to the average person - they can easily say the wrong thing. Then when they get trashed for it, all you do is lose their support.

[Scurrilous]

21. K & R

:thumbsup:

[mstinamotorcity]

22. Just how many times

have most of us used words or phrases that we realize is a poor choice of words. I find that there are some people who in trying to find the right words to have the right effect tend to generally stick their foot in their mouth. There are some comments that are meant to be hurtful and I have seen them upfront like Mr. Running for New York Governor Carl P. I don't think Ms. Jarrett was trying to be hurtful or mean. And what ever happened to when you see an honest mistake you point it out with civility and consideration.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

33. ABSOLUTELY NOT! you clearly never even bothered to listen to the interview

[Catherina]

37. Like I said in my post. Pretending. And worse, uncaring n/t

[NJmaverick]

39. I don't find judging with out fact to be an admirable trait

[Catherina]

47. Whatever dear. Whatever. Defending bigotry for political gain is reprehensible. n/t

[NJmaverick]

49. What's reprehensible is the attacks on a woman was acting as a strong advocate

of the GLBT community. That is beyond reprehensible

[Catherina]

58. All these *fierce advocates* are making me swoon in gratitude. NOT.

Go ahead. Tell me I should be grateful or some other rubbish.

[VMI Dem]

61. Strong advocate. The President is the fierce advocate.

[Catherina]

97. Sorry. All this magnificent advocacy so overwhelming that I get confused n/t

[NJmaverick]

100. Just watch the interview

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/10/12/VI2010101203062.html

see the advocacy that you missed

[Barack_America]

161. Watched it. And those words just flowed right out of her mouth.

Without pause or hesitation.

[Catherina]

184. Someone put it brilliantly yesterday- words coming out like ink out of a squid

The imagery was perfect. Unfortunately I can't remember who or even find the post.

[Gormy Cuss]

183. Jarrett was presenting a case against bullying, not supporting gay rights per se.

Her statements are made solely in the context of school bullying behavior with an example of gay youth suicide. When she called it a "lifestyle choice" that was flat out intolerance of the LGBT+ community. Further support of that intolerance was the repeated reference to Aarburg's parents as "good" parents, suggesting that it wasn't their fault their son "chose" the "lifestyle."

Couple those with her non-apology apology today and only someone wearing blinders could characterize this interview as advocacy.

[NJmaverick]

62. Why

you have made it clear facts are not important to. Hey you are only trashing a fine woman and GLBT advocate, why bother to take the less than 5 minutes to make sure you know the facts?

[Bobbie Jo]

57. Thank you, Dr. Laura.

Revealing comments come in all shapes and sizes.

[CBR]

175. They do indeed. Very revealing. nt

[grantcart]

177. And how long have you been waiting to find the opportunity to use that word?

I am guessing months of patience thread watching has now provided you the opportunity.

[CBR]

180. It is always ready to come right out on these threads. Very strange. nt

[grantcart]

186. Clearly the equivalent to N***** is F**

So most reasonable people would agree that "lifestyle choice" is not the equivalent to "f**".


So another reasonable conclusion would be that "lifestyle choice" would be somewhat equivalent to "Negro".


Interesting that you chose not to use "Negro" or "Bitch" or "Kike" or "Chink" or any other potentially comparative word isn't it.


So what does the fact that you deliberately choose a word that is clearly not equivalent to VJ use of "lifestyle choice" indicate about you:


a) That it exposes a clearly racist mindset that was exposed unintentionally?

or

b) That you 'misspoke' and in the heat of posting unintentionally did not use a word that represented your own honest opinions.



I prefer to think that you chose b) but the logic of the OP indicates that you prefer a).

[Catherina]

190. You couldn't be any more ridiculous if you sat down and thought about it for a week

Epic fail. Epic nonsense. So many words, so little sense. Typical Praetorian Guard tactic when there's nothing else to fall back on.

If you can't understand anything but the politically expedient spin, I'm sorry, my gay Black ass can't help you.

Excuse me while I go look for a pair of pearls to clutch.

[firedupdem]

203. "gay black ass"

Stop the bullshit...You just told another poster you had no interest in the AAIG because you don't put yourself in a box. Don't trot out the "oh, I'm black on the internet so I can use the word nigger" shit now. That word had no place on this thread or anywhere else.

[Catherina]

207. Bollocks n/t

[Number23]

238. OH SNAP!!!!!!

That's my Girl!!!

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Edit: Girl, I just read your post again and I'm STILL laughing my ass off! Whoo, Lord. *wheeze* Folks like that are nothing new to the Fam but it's still good to see them get the slap every now and again.

[Catherina]

248. Nevermind, You're not worth it. n/t

[pecwae]

213. LOL!

"You couldn't be any more ridiculous if you sat down and thought about it for a week."

I'm remembering that for future use.

[Ignis]

196. You're right. Her dog whistle was closer to "welfare queen."

And that makes it so much better. :eyes:

[treestar]

198. +100000

And given the context, she should be forgiven and not treated as though she's equivalent of a teabagger.

[mitchtv]

216. she is not forgiven here

but rather unincumbered as far as I am concerned. The administrations actions will get them the votes they want. So far not so much with lgbt'rs( Easter Egg Roll notwithstanding). Sorry she used a dog whistle, but apologize by doing something concrete, not just crumbs,I remain, dubious

[asdjrocky]

23. Yeah whatever.

"Before, when I said the way I feel, that's not the way I feel." Fucking tone deaf.

[NJmaverick]

34. I think she showed great class with her statement and set a fine example

that many could follow.

[VMI Dem]

40. I think she showed her true colors.

I'm not impressed.

[NJmaverick]

43. If you had bothered to listen to the interview

You would have heard her come out strongly in support of the GLBT community. Not that the FACTS seem to matter:eyes:

[VMI Dem]

44. Fact is, she used an offensive term. You are free to justify and defend it.

As well as accept her apology.

[NJmaverick]

48. as you are free to attack people going out of their way to be supportive of the GBLT community

[VMI Dem]

50. "going out of their way to be supportive"

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

54. demonstrating your ignorance of what her interview

shameful:eyes:

[VMI Dem]

63. I just can't recognize a fine deed when I see it.

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

66. you would have to actually open you eyes in order to see

[Catherina]

51. With support like this, there's no need for homophobic bigots. n/t

[NJmaverick]

55. You wouldn't know because you didn't bother to hear what she had to say

comments made in ignorance are useless.

[Catherina]

77. Blah blah blah blah, I love how you're all over this thread telling us uppity gays

how ignorant we are. Could you possibly condescend any more?

You are in no position to explain diddly squat to anyone about this matter.

Unlike you, I read and understood the whole thing, from mascara start to lipstick finish.

[NJmaverick]

80. Actually I am referring to people that attack a fine woman with out

bothering to take the time our have the basic human decency to learn the facts first. Do you feel that you don't need to know the facts before you smear someone?

[Catherina]

99. NJM, It's best we not have a discussion about respect for facts or truth.

The mods would justifiably delete my post.

[NJmaverick]

101. yes

very justifiable

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muffin1]

167. Beat me to it!

:)

[asdjrocky]

46. That doesn't suprise me in the least. nt

[asdjrocky]

65. She showed something alright.

She showed us all who she really is, and how sorely out of touch she and this administration is.

[NJmaverick]

67. how do you know what she showed if you didn't bother to watch the interview?

[G_j]

71. over and over

you have told people that they did not watch the interview.
How in the world do you know this?

[NJmaverick]

84. If you had watched you would have the answer to your question

[G_j]

95. no, I was just curious where you got your psychic powers

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

96. Here watch the interview

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/10/12/VI2010101203062.html

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[G_j]

119. artificial flavor

just add sugar

[Ignis]

200. It requires special equipment and years of training.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

106. More statements made in ignorance of the facts

that is becoming a real pattern

[asdjrocky]

113. Yeah, you should really look into your actions and do something about that.

It's not too late for you to turn over a new leaf you know.

[Barack_America]

28. Let's hear more about viewing being gay as a "lifestyle choice" as a perfect example...

...of the homophobia at the root of this bullying.

[NJmaverick]

35. ???

[Barack_America]

42. Yes?

If she wants to address gay youths being bullied for their sexuality, a good place to start would be the notion that their sexuality makes them "different" or "other" and that it is a choice they've deliberately made.

You can't address the bullying without addressing the homophobia, and the term "lifestyle choice" would be on the top of the Family Feud list of homophobic comments.

[NJmaverick]

45. If you had listened to her interview, you would see how silly your comments really sound

she made a poor word choice while coming out strongly in support of the GLBT community. The outrage, especially in light of her apology, is outrageous.

[muffin1]

38. 'To any who have taken offense.'

Piss off, Valerie.

[NJmaverick]

41. If you had listened to her interview it was all about supporting the GLBT community

it's nice to see how people react to that fine deed:puke:

[muffin1]

56. FINE DEED?

It's called CYA, and not a very 'fine' job of it, either. This is just another example in a long line of insults to the GLBTIQ community. Rick Warren, Donnie McClurkin, dragging feet on DADT, defending DOMA, and of course we all know that Obama is OPPOSED to marriage equality. Why on earth would anyone be against marriage EQUALITY unless, of course, you think the people in question are somehow inferior?

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[NJmaverick]

68. All those comments and opinions made with out actually hearing what the woman said

that's beyond belief.

[muffin1]

74. I know *all* that was said.

Anyone who defends this kind of bigotry is a piece of shit. OOPS, I apologize if anyone is offended.

[NJmaverick]

85. I don't consider defending and the supporting the GLBT community

"bigotry" nor do I find the people doing so "piece of shit"

[muffin1]

91. Who is defending the GLBTIQ community - Jarrett? Obama?

You are too funny. You should really take your act on the road. No, really. We, of course, would miss your rapier wit, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

[NJmaverick]

93. Here watch the interview

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/10/12/VI2010101203062.html

[Barack_America]

75. Another bone from the administration to those uppity queers.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bullwinkle428]

53. We call that out as a "classic Republican apology" every day

here at DU, but intellectual honesty demands that we call this shit out no matter WHO does it!

[NJmaverick]

59. Intellectual honest calls for having taking the time to hear the interview

and know what she said before attacking and condemning her

[Ignis]

139. +1

Shit doesn't magically become shinola just because it was said by someone on the Blue Team.

[Ignis]

135. Yes, it was a classic "I'm sorry if...."

:puke:

[Prism]

60. I do not accept anything less than resignation.

"to any who have taken offense."

Yeah, the definition of weasel apology right there.

Not only were her words a "poor choice," her comments about the parents were revealingly bigoted and anachronistic.

Furthermore, she has just displayed for us exactly the kinds of attitudes and sentiments that are free to flow in Obama's Oval Office without correction. Indeed, without any LGBT input of any kind, it seems, because no self-respecting LGBTer would've let her get away with the awful HRC stunt or wandering through life thinking lifestyle choice or her attitude towards the parents was even remotely acceptable.

I suppose we should thank Valerie. Now we know exactly how this administration thinks of us and our issues, and it goes a very long way towards explaining the hostility, indifference, and sheer ignorance put out by this White House towards our community every single day.

She tore that curtain down.

Thanks, Valerie. You've done more than you know.

(Love all the people here defending it and saying this apology is adequate. As if that's for straight people to determine. Jesus. The clueless train just keeps on rollin.)

[NJmaverick]

64. You should have listened to her interview before making this statement

you are smearing a strong advocate for the GLBT community.

[Prism]

69. I did listen to her interview. Did you really listen?

I am addressing her remarks entirely in context.

You are apologizing for bigoted sentiments, words, and attitudes that have directly, tangibly destroyed the lives of LGBT youth across this country.

The epidemic of LGBT suicide? Is directly traceable to the attitudes dear Valerie just dog-whistled clear across the religious heartland. From lifestyle choice to the idea that children turn out gay in spite of good parenting. It's a total homophobic train wreck.

You should be ashamed for defending her, but I'm not exactly shocked here.

[NJmaverick]

70. You comments show you are clearly NOT addressing her words in context

very clear

[VMI Dem]

72. In what context is saying something bigoted and offensive ok?

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

78. false comparison. She readily admits to a poor choice of words

yet when you bother to learn the facts, before smearing and attacking, you understand what she was trying to accomplish and understand that it's possible for her to make a mistake. Yet you like to take 2 words and run with them without any clue as to what she was saying at the time.

[VMI Dem]

83. She was saying that gay people choose to be gay. A backward and bigoted attitude.

:thumbsdown:

[NJmaverick]

88. No she wasn't. That is a false statement

[VMI Dem]

90. What does lifestyle choice mean to you?

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

Here, watch the interview

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/10/12/VI2010101203062.html

[Prism]

79. You don't get it.

You don't. You couldn't care less about how her words, phrasing, and attitudes have damaged the community. You really could not care less about the ideas that wind through her approach to the topic and how they've been used as a weapon for decades.

And that's fine if you're ignorant. People are.

But the idea you're going to school us on how all of this really works, and that we're the ones not reading for context when we've done nothing but, is laughable.

You can defend this administration's bad behavior most of the time, but defending this is the lowest of the low.

[NJmaverick]

82. More like you couldn't care less what the facts are

just attack smear and destroy.

[Prism]

92. It is a blatantly anti-gay attitude coming from her

She said a lot of nice things about anti-bullying, but when all of that is boldly underlined by lifestyle choice and the deeply offensive attitude about the parents, it betrays a lack of interest, concern, or real contact and intimacy with LGBT lives and issues.

She betrayed her ignorance with her point of approach.

It is not given you to lecture us about our experiences - and most LGBT do have experience not only with the concept of choice, but with the ideas that our orientation is something awful that just arrived at our parents' feet despite their best efforts.

That's actually even worse than the lifestyle choice comment.

Do you get that? At all? Do you understand? What does it take to make you understand?

Or is this, as I suspect, merely an exercise in defending politicians, LGBT people be damned either way.

[NJmaverick]

94. Wrong, watch the interview

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/10/12/VI2010101203062.html

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

103. I care about the truth and right and wrong

I will listen to what anyone has to say, but I will not give on the issue of justice

[myrna minx]

104. It's so pathetic to see the import of politics and politicians superceeding the

real lives of real people. Please know that this ignorance, arrogance and political apology is not shared by me. :grouphug:

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

111. These must be the words you have a problem with

"We must instill in young people respect for one another, and we must set an example of mutual regard and civility to create an environment that is safe for every person, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity."

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

125. Ugly is smearing a woman

that is advocating for the GLBT community

[Barack_America]

129. Honey, you can keep the "poor defenseless woman" bs out of this.

Jarrett is none of that. You're insulting her by insinuating that she cannot nor should not take the heat for what she said.

[Barack_America]

89. He's not trying to. nt

[Renew Deal]

76. "poor choice of words"

I predicted it. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9310491&mesg_id=9310612

[Barack_America]

105. More like a poor choice in beliefs.

I'm having a hard time seeing how anyone can mean anything other than "he chose to be gay" when they say "lifestyle choice". It's not the words that are at issue, it's the beliefs behind them. I can think of no good message that the words "lifestyle choice" could have been chosen to represent, mistaken or not.

She was saying that his parents supported him in his choice to be gay/different, etc. She could have easily left it at, "his parents supported him as a gay teenager", but she intentionally inserted the notion of choice, and that is the issue here.

[NJmaverick]

108. Have you ever been interviewed? You need to appreciate the difference between writing an article

and speaking to a reporter. In an interview you don't get to delete poor word choices or sentences and fix them before printing.

[Barack_America]

Oh yes Jarrett, such a newbie when it comes to media interviews.

And being interviewed by a reporter who openly admits he likes her. I'm sure it was a very high pressure situation for her. Perhaps the real problem was that it was too relaxed and she let her guard down, letting her words flow freely?

[Renew Deal]

115. Didn't Obama once say there are 57 states?

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

121. An excellent point

most would say the President knows how many states there are.

[NJmaverick]

120. It's clear when you watch the interview that she was struggling to find the right wording

to finish her sentence. She picked a poor one. The reporter interviewing her, did a disservice to her by not following up and getting clarification.

[Barack_America]

126. Are you then saying that the words were carefully selected?

And, Jesus, when did it become the job of reporters to protect people from making asses of themselves? I seem to recall a lot of outrage when Fox reporters cue Palin to "clarify" her ridiculous comments.

[NJmaverick]

130. Are you seriously asking me when it became the job of reporters to get to the truth

and have the proper facts?!?!

It's clear that the word choice could be construed as having significant implications. Any good reporter would have sought further clarification to see if she truly meant that being gay was a life style choice. Assuming her intentions was a poor way to go.

[Renew Deal]

134. The reporter admitted he knew she didn't believe that

And didn't offer to correct her. He chose to post the video without comment until after the outrage. It's a bit sleazy.

[NJmaverick]

138. I'm am betting that during the interview the reporter failed to appreciate the impact of those words

and that's why he didn't follow up.

[Renew Deal]

144. Read the other thread

He realized right away, but didn't say anything because he "knows her heart." I haven't had much to say about this until I read that. I find the way he's handled it dishonest.

[NJmaverick]

157. Either that or his claims that he "realized right away" were dishonest

Imagine the alternative. How does he explain the failure to have a follow up question on "lifestyle choice"?

[Barack_America]

147. Lol. Now I know you didn't read his article today.

Shame, after you have chastised people up and down the thread for not having informed themselves of all the facts.

[NJmaverick]

152. I did read the article (if you had bothered to click through the link I provide you would have

known that). I guess in you mind clicking on the link was not worth it, as you would only get more facts and information.


I simply didn't believe his claim that he knew what was in her heart. I think that was spin on his part, as saying "I didn't realize how loaded those words were" wouldn't have made him look good. Sometimes I simply dismiss claims I don't believe, rather than call the man out as a liar (which would be a poor choice as I can only speculate).

[Barack_America]

143. He doesn't "know" anything about her beliefs.

He can assume all he likes, but only she knows what she believes and only she should speak on behalf of them.

[NJmaverick]

146. Which is why he should have followed up

I am glad on that point we agree

[Renew Deal]

148. He said he did.

"Contrary to the caustic comments on websites like firedoglake, I know Jarrett knows better than this. That's why I didn't correct her or ask her to explain herself during our sit-down at the White House. But viewers don't know her heart. They just know that what she said was offensive."

[Barack_America]

137. So, by that argument, the media should have "clarified" every time Bush made up a word.

To save him from coming off wrong and looking like a fool.

:eyes:

[NJmaverick]

145. So you think a reporter asking for the definition of a made up word

would have "saved him (President Bush) from looking like a fool." Now that's pretty funny, although not as funny as Bush would have looked defining his made up words.

[Barack_America]

151. No. By your argument, reporters should have said, "Mr. President, did you mean to say

...X when you actually said Y?"

You've argued that Capeheart should have said "Ms. Jarrett, you just said his "lifestyle choice", did you mean to say that?" That's the lifeline you expected him to throw her, having given her the benefit of the doubt. My point to you is that arguing the benefit of the doubt should be afforded to some people, but not all is hypocritical. You are arguing that reporters should help out people you agree with, but nail people you don't. I am arguing that it is best for reporters to stay the fuck out of it and let people speak for themselves, as Capeheart did.

[NJmaverick]

153. All the reporter had to do was

"I noticed you used the term "lifestyle choice". Does that mean you believe that homosexuality is a choice?" In reporting circles it's known as a follow up question and it's what good reporters do.

[superduperfarleft]

224. Oh, now it's the reporter's fault?

:rofl:

[Renew Deal]

149. No

But if he said something uncharacteristic, maybe they should follow up.

[G_j]

117. You don't get to delete

what you actually said, so yea, that is one way interviews help get at the truth.

[NJmaverick]

123. so you believe that President Obama thinks the US has 57 states?!?!

:wow:

[Barack_America]

132. Man, Renew Deal really did you a favor by pointing that out, eh?

It's quickly become the crux of your argument.

[NJmaverick]

133. Facts matter

you should trying being open minded enough to listen to the point, instead of simply looking at it as something to attack and tear down.

[Renew Deal]

136. I don't think this is a "57 states" situation

But I do think it's a "pro-life" situation. It's an example of RW wording seeping into the lexicon.

[NJmaverick]

176. So you think the it's true that President Obama believes the US has 57 states

that is certainly and odd position to take.

[Renew Deal]

110. It's the same way that Dems use the words "pro-life"

Do they really believe republicans are "pro-life?" They are anti-choice. But people sometimes use improper terminology. She hasn't said anything to believe that she really believes that being gay is a lifestyle choice.

[Safetykitten]

112. Truth slips from a bigot

[jonnyblitz]

114. This vile POS hasn't been fired yet? WTF?!?!

[Renew Deal]

150. Do you really believe that?

You really believe she's a "vile POS?" Does her entire lifes work go in the garbage because she mispoke, and what she said doesn't match up with her documented beliefs?

[ismnotwasm]

118. I'm glad she apologized

I went back and read her 'It gets better' speech on October 9th at a Human Rights Campaign dinner. An example;


"That’s why, last year, we created a new federal task force on bullying. And just this August they held the first National Bullying Summit, bringing in experts and advocates – including folks from HRC and GLSEN – to begin mapping out a plan to tackle this issue. We are working to replicate proven programs that have helped schools cut down on bullying. We must disprove the myth that bullying is an unavoidable fact of life for young people.

The Department of Education has reinvigorated the Office for Civil Rights to help stop harassment in our schools based on race, disability, sex – and bullying of LGBT young people who may not conform to gender norms.

The Department of Health and Human Services has announced an unprecedented National Action Alliance for Suicide Prevention. This alliance brings together a wide range of public and private partners. And it’s going to make sure people have access to help, and to resources when they are in crisis. One of its specific goals is preventing suicide in at-risk groups, including LGBT youth.

We must also recognize that creating a safe environment for LGBT youth also means doing more for young people who are forced to leave their homes. For the first time, we have a national strategy to fight homelessness. It specifically addresses the needs of LGBT youth who are living on the streets because they have been ostracized by their families, friends, and community. This includes figuring out whether it’s possible for these children to go home, and if they can’t, that we have safe and nurturing alternatives"




The context is politic like all speeches, but it doesn't have an egregious comment like 'lifestyle choice' in it. Those two words have been involved in very public controversy, and have caused incredible harm in the Gay community and I was appalled that she used them. The only thing she could have done to save her from looking disingenuous is what she did do--apologize.

I don't participate in these threads because while I strongly support President Obama, I have no right to tell a group of people who are being denied human rights how to feel. Gays have every right to demand full participation in society and full rights on every level--with their sexuality being, first not an 'issue' in any way, and second nobodies business.

[MadHound]

122. A poor choice of words indeed. A poor choice that revealed to all just exactly what she thinks

Sorry, but this is a no go. This "poor choice of words" would only have come about because that is how she truly feels about people who are gay, that they are making a "lifestyle choice". Now she is simply trying to cover her ass and control the damage. Sadly, this is probably the last we'll officially hear about this from the Obama administration, that is unless they decide to chastise the LGBT community for not being "enthused" or some such tripe.

So, has it become clear yet that the LGBT community has no friends in this administration? It should be, given that they are fighting against equality every single step of the way, pausing only long enough to utter pronouncements that they hope will pacify the LGBT community.

[NJmaverick]

124. So you believe that when the President said that US had 57 states

that was what he really thought?!?! :wow:

[Barack_America]

128. Did he struggle before coming up with "57 states" as you claim Jarrett struggled...

...before deciding on "lifestyle choice"?

[NJmaverick]

131. Spoken like someone who has never been interviewed

[Lars39]

140. She helps shape the message that comes from the highest public servent

in the US. Given her vast experience with interviews,she should have had no problem with the correct terminology.

[MadHound]

141. Do you believe that Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic rants were no big deal?

The choice of words one uses when dealing with such topics is always telling. That Jarrett used such a homophobic slur isn't a slip of the tongue, or a brain fart or other such nonsense. It was truly a window on what her true feelings are. As is the administrations reaction to this controversy, namely a slap on the wrist and then continue preventing the progress of civil rights for all Americans, including those in the LGBT community.

[VMI Dem]

154. He misspoke and used the wrong words.

Gotta look at his entire career. Lethal Weapon was great.

[QC]

187. He was actually talking about flying a *kite*. You know, a kite.

But people misinterpreted him because they like to smear and attack good people.

[Ignis]

201. !!!

:spray:

Got me.

[NJmaverick]

155. You are comparing a woman's advocacy for the GLBT community and her

poor word choice with Mel Gibson's rant. WOW! just wow

[MadHound]

162. If the shoe fits. . .

I have never used the words "lifestyle choice" when it came to members of the LGBT community, nor have the many sensitive, caring people that I know. It is equivalent to using the N word when it comes to African Americans. It just isn't done.

In fact the only people I've heard use the phrase "lifestyle choice" in that manner are rabid RW fundies and other insanely conservative, bigoted people.

This wasn't a "poor word choice", this was a Freudian slip that showed us where Jarrett's true feelings lie, and the administration's response to it is just as revealing. As is your own response, defending the indefensible.

[NJmaverick]

166. You're wrong, very wrong

[MadHound]

212. What's wrong is your defense of the indefensible,

But then again, you've been there before, so it's familiar territory.

[NJmaverick]

222. What indefensible are the attacks on Valerie

outraged or not, human decency still applies. Demanding an apology and then spitting in the face of the woman after she apologizes is simply unconscionable

[WinkyDink]

142. "So what I may have said inartfully, let me say this way....."

R. Gibbs.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

165. Facts matter and an examination of the OP

Shows you did not use a single fact or real statement to launch your personal attack

[DURHAM D]

171. You just don't get it.

How very comfortable for you on your mountain top.

[Barack_America]

164. To NJmaverick and Renew Deal...

I'm sorry, but I simply refuse to blame reporters for what their interviewees say. Her words are her responsibility. We're going to have to leave it there.

Sorry for posting this here, but we seem to having the same discussion in at least three separate sub-threads.

[NJmaverick]

170. There was a time when reporters did more than just take dictation

[Cali_Democrat]

168. She misspoke and corrected....we all do it from time to time....we're human

The only reason why people continue to attack the Obama Administration over this is because they hate the Administration and will pounce on anything they feel can be used to tear down Obama.

[NJmaverick]

174. EXACTLY!

:applause:

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

172. You clearly don't let facts get in your way

the apology was posted with out comment.

[Upton]

178. Look..she's clarified her statement

and admitted she misspoke...it's time to move on.

[Swede]

179. Glad she corrected this so quickly.

nt

[firedupdem]

185. Thanks NJ Mav...

This thread is ridiculous. Many people don't know "lifestyle choice" is so offensive. Why don't the people that are so upset about it educate those who use the term instead of immediately calling for their head on a platter? I'm so happy Dr. King and others who fought for civil rights didn't run around calling every person in government a piece of shit racist cracker etc. when they were our best hope for getting anything done. :eyes:

The ridiculous name calling does nothing to further intelligent dialogue. I would think the people who voted against the repeal of DADT would be the enemy here, not the administration. Damn, the woman apologized and yet the venom continues. Reading the comments here you would think she killed somebody!

[lamp_shade]

193. Thanks. I hope we can now put away the tar and feathers and pitchforks.

[Hekate]

236. LOL. What site do you think you're at?

Republicans will forgive anything if you say you're sorry and have found Jesus now.

"Progressives" never forgive anything at all. :-(

Hekate

[lamp_shade]

242. I was wrong. From all the subsequent threads, it looks like they're keeping the tar hot.

[superduperfarleft]

195. "and I apologize to any who have taken offense at my poor choice of words."

:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

205. the classic Luntzian dodge. Any parent who would accept that is, well--

I wish them luck.

[NYC Liberal]

211. "any who have taken offense" - So who else sought an apology?

I'm curious.

[superduperfarleft]

215. I'm straight, and it offended me.

But she should've apologized for saying something incredibly insensitive, at best, instead of taking the very Republican approach of apologizing because, for reasons totally out of her control :sarcasm:, people might have been offended.

[NYC Liberal]

218. She did NOT apologize "IF anyone was offended."

She apologized "TO any who have taken offense."

She was directing her apology to the people who were offended. Is there someone else she should have directed her apology to?

[superduperfarleft]

219. How many times has DU called out Republicans for this EXACT kind of apology,

and yet when it's "our team," it's suddenly okay?

"I am sorry if through your own fault my words or actions were taken in by you and you chose to become upset".

[NJmaverick]

221. "I apologize to any who have taken offense at my poor choice of words."

Is not the same thing and you wrong to suggest otherwise

[Name removed]

223. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

227. So you are taking the attack the admin at all costs?

[superduperfarleft]

229. I know you are but what am I?

Nice how you ignored 90% of my post and instead resorted to arguing like a 3 year old.

[NJmaverick]

230. Your comments indicate that is the position you are taking

if you want to try a more reasoned hyperbole free position you might find people will actually consider what you have to say

[superduperfarleft]

232. I've said exactly what i needed to say.

Go run in circles with someone else.

[NJmaverick]

233. Glad your needs were satiated

[NYC Liberal]

226. But it's NOT the same apology.

I know the apology you're talking about. "I'm sorry if you were offended."

That isn't the apology that was offered here. The apology offered here was, "I apologize TO those who were offended."

As an example, if I say something nasty about Sam and go back and apologize, I'd say, "I apologize to you, Sam."

[NJmaverick]

231. That would be game set and match

WELL DONE!

[superduperfarleft]

234. "I'm sorry that I offended you" vs. "I'm sorry i said something ignorant."

Or maybe that's what she meant and "misspoke" again. :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

235. sad

very sad

[NYC Liberal]

245. Saying "I apologize TO YOU" is wrong?

Holy fucking hell.

You know what, this whole thing isn't about Valerie Jarrett or her apology. Not really. This is about some people simply refusing to accept ANYTHING from Obama or his administration, and nattering armchair critics using anything as an excuse not to support them. Nothing this administraion does will ever be good enough. It's always something. There's always some excuse why what Obama or his administration does is not good enough. It's the wrong thing. It's the right thing, but not enough. It's the right thing, but not soon enough. It's the right thing but there's an ulterior motive.

If you want to sit around and piss and moan and nitpick an apology like this, be my guest. I suppose she is to be branded for life as a worthless, homophobic, bigot. No apology will be enough. Nothing she's done in the past matters. Nothing she ever does in the future will be enough.

If people have to find reasons not to accept an apology from a good woman such as Valerie Jarrett, and not at the very least give an ally the damn benefit of the doubt, then that says MORE about them than they might even realize.

[Hekate]

246. I think he's got it.

By George, he's got it.

:thumbsup:

[Bobbie Jo]

249. +1000

What he said. :applause:

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

204. Good people know the person giving the apology is morally better

than those refusing to accept it. Your personal attack only cost you more points in the morality category

[G_j]

247. so, if you are "good people" then those "refusing to accept it." are bad people

that is pretty easy to read, Mr. White Hat.

sincerely,
just another one of those bad people

[Arkana]

210. It's a good apology, but I have to wonder why the hell she ever inferred

that being gay was a choice ever.

[Name removed]

220. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lamp_shade]

225. +1

[NJmaverick]

228. Very very well said!

:applause:

[CreekDog]

243. I love that, the three of you are falling over yourselves at what "Name Removed" said

:rofl: :bounce:

[Ignis]

253. "I agree wholeheartedly with that rule violation!"

Hmm, doesn't have quite the same ring, does it?

[CreekDog]

254. .

:rofl:

[Radical Activist]

237. Yes.

I'd be surprised if your comment lasts very long.

[Hekate]

255. It didn't. A few short days ago...

... it would not have even been alert-worthy, much less delete-worthy.

But I am pleased that so many people got so much amusement out of it. Their little rofls tell me so.

Ta.

Hekate

[Zenlitened]

239. The Mighty Fists of Ham, pummeling relentlessly away on behalf of Pres. Obama.

Wonderfully helpful, as always.

[Ignis]

241. Obviously, you haven't watched the video!

;)

[bvar22]

244. I apologize if YOUR nervsous system transmitted a pain response

when you were hit in the face by my fist.
You should get a better nervous system.

Passive Voice apologies are NOT apologies at all.
They are Passive-Aggressive insults.
Passive Voice apologies imply that there is something wrong with the victim.

[political_Dem]

250. Kick.

[Forkboy]

251. LOL

[Forkboy]

252. LOL