I got called a faggot at work today

[dsc]

I was walking to my cubicle and my coworkers were lining the hall. One coworker, I don't know who, called out faggot. Soon there were snickers and laughing and then I was tripped and my books and papers fell all over the hall. One of the bosses was out in the hall but apparently didn't see anything. So I just slinked off to my desk. Later in the cafeteria I went to sit at a table but my coworkers wouldn't let me. So I tried another table and it was no dice. They said they don't eat with faggots. So I ate at a table all by myself. Later I had to go to the bathroom real bad so I ran into the restroom and relieved myself. On the way out one of my coworkers barred the door and pushed me into a stall. He hit me a few times and then I finally got out. I told my boss but since he didn't see it, nothing could be done. I really need the job so I guess I will go in tomorrow but I sure don't want to.

Now of course none of the above really happened to me at work. But this really does happen to way too many of our middle schoolers and high schoolers today. We would find my tale absurd for an adult, but we somehow accept it for kids. What are we going to do to change this?

[WillParkinson]

1. Wow...

When I started reading I was afraid for you. Now I'm incensed that people would treat each other that way. Horrific.

[Catherina]

15. Goodness. Me too. I was getting so angry. Good OP. Rec'd n/t

[dsc]

23. sorry didn't mean to worry you

I thought this was the best way to make a point.

[Catherina]

127. You made it very well. I was so relieved when I got to the end.

I'm glad it didn't happen to you but angry it's happening to so many kids around the world.

What doubled my anger about it happening to you is that you work in an academic environment where attitudes are formed and people's minds are supposed to be getting elevated.

If kids stop suffering tonight, it won't be a moment too soon.

[Chulanowa]

147. You made it very well n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

104. Me three. Thought it was real for the first couple of sentences

[a la izquierda]

163. I was too!

I was about to flip the hell out! I'm happy this didn't really happen to dsc, but you're right, this is a great metaphoric OP.

[dsc]

21. didn't mean to worry you but thought I needed to do this to make my point

again sorry to worry you.

[proud patriot]

42. and it is a good point

:-)

[bobbolink]

107. Yes, it is a good way to make the point. And you got it across.

Just like with spanking children, we wouldn't accept assault as adults, yet we allow it with children.

We are one sick society.

Are you going to show this piece to your coworkers?

[hendo]

115. It is a good point, but I was worried for you as well. NT

[SCantiGOP]

198. My response...

is in my signature line.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Why is it absurd for kids?

Because "boys will be boys," "it's just an expression," "you need to grow a thicker skin," or "choosing that lifestyle can have it's drawbacks."

[ejpoeta]

76. sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me....

let me tell you.... at least with broken bones people SEE it. verbal abuse is worse i think because it's harder to prove. and a broken bone heals but the scars of verbal abuse never really go away.

[bobbolink]

108. You are absolutely right, and studies back you up on that!

Verbal abuse causes a deep sense of guilt and unworthiness.

[Deep13]

177. +1

:-(

[swimboy]

190. The hurtful words are just to say

the sticks and stones are on the way.

[kenfrequed]

191. Well said!

Language is the lead up. People really don't get how important this is.

[Behind the Aegis]

195. Very true.

I used to do a presentation called "Sticks and Stones...and other myths you were told as a child!" It dealt with the power of words from the hate-filled to propaganda. Words do matter.

[deathrind]

203. Words...

...are like bullets once you pull the trigger you can't get them back so to speak.

To the OP. Very shrewd way to make a very good point.

[ooglymoogly]

93. The saddest part is that kids who are bullies, are relaying what they are taught at home.

Like all pugs; these are parents who are just too f'ked up to know it.

Pugs are evil creeps who need their very own banana republic hell to live in so they cannot make life a living hell for grownups. I would suggest a deep south state or a state hopelessly lost to the authoritarian medieval mormans.

[Ex Lurker]

152. that's true for the most part, but peer influence can trump upbringing

kids engage in all kind of behavior they weren't taught at home. Someone who was 'raised right" may not instigate, but they might go along with the crowd.

[ooglymoogly]

182. Certainly a factor in "formative years" psychology and current thinking on the subject; however

a child's character is formed by the age of 7 on the outer edge; more current studies believe it is formed by age 3.

Yet I submit there are other overriding factors to becoming a bully, but far less likely in those whose character forbids this behavior, doing to others.

The factors ordering a child's character are kaleidoscopic.

We are talking in general terms here. In general terms; the apple not falling far from the tree applies here.

[ejpoeta]

158. they also project their own feelings about themselves onto others. they pick people who can't fight

back. they pick kids who are smaller or seen as weaker. they target those who are different. some of that is that they can feel better about themselves by tearing someone else down. but they can't go after someone who won't react or may fight back.

[hendo]

123. Bullies never learn

There are three paths that a bullied teen can go down

1) Self-loating to the point of suicide

2) Striking out in revenge

3) and fortunately the most common. Moving on with it to a world after school when the bullying often stops.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. What can I say? But you're so right.

Why do we allow the young vulnerable members of our society, our future, to be treated this way?

Recommended.

:(

[Egnever]

9. how could you stop it?

its part of growing up kids point oput the "others" because they are uncomfortable in their own skin. There is no rule that will change that.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

16. Rules have no effect. That is certainly true.

Kids learn by example. If they grow up with bigots, they learn bigotry. And so on...

[Egnever]

41. kids are cruel

they have no filter for the stuff that comes out of their mouths. They say things without thinking of others feelings, compassion comes with time. it doesnt have to be biggotry it can be a mole on your face or any abnormaility that makes you stand out.

Unless of course you think people are training thier kids to hate moles....

[eridani]

116. In kindergarten they often take each others' toys

The teachers make them sit in the corner and apply other such sanctions until the kids get the idea that taking others' toys is wrong. It's called SOCIALIZATION. Apply same to bullying behavior, 'K?

[Teaser]

17. giving the bullying shits a good asskicking changes it.

oh yes it does.

[Egnever]

39. Ya but thats against the rules

[exboyfil]

75. A little hard when you are

outweighed by a 1/3 and 4 inches shorter. Yes maybe I should have taken up martial arts in elementary school, but I was not given that option.

There is a reason why boxing/wrestling/etc is grouped by weight. The bigger guy always has the advantage. The only thing the smaller guy has going for him is surprise and possibly an administrator to break it up. Kind of chickensh** of me, but I would never respond without knowing some adult in authority was available.

[Teaser]

120. oh I know

I'm just reliving a brief moment of triumph over evil.


The thing I've found about fighting...if you are willing to do anything, and I mean anything to win, and you let the other person know it, they usually get really scared. I've found that even the bigger guys who would pound on me were worried about hurting me "too much". Because that would have life altering consequences for them.

That worry on their part was a tactical weaknesses. And could be exploited.

[Ex Lurker]

153. another thing to consider that was told me by a teacher

back in the day, two kids would fight, get their differences hashed out, and that would be that. Now, if you get in a fight, you can expect to be jumped by several others.

I think the zero tolerance attitude of many schools toward self defense is ludicrous, but if you fight back, be aware of what you're getting in to.

[ooglymoogly]

184. A well thought out verbal ass kicking is often better and it is legal.

archaically; a shunning or shaming with a kind of scarlet letter attached. A good teacher, as in the OP, can affect this kind of change and supplement or guide whatever character there is in a child into something more productive.

[blondeatlast]

18. substitute "nigger" for "faggot." Are you just as ok with that? nt

BTW, I alerted on my own post, thanks.

[Egnever]

25. no one is ok with any of it

but pretending you can make a rule and make it go away is wishful thinking. Its kids its what they have done since the beginning of time.

Weird shit alerting your own post btw.

[KittyWampus]

34. since not all cultures experience children and teens tormenting each other, CLEARLY

there is something that could be done.

But it'd involve changing how a lot of people react. Including those who think that behavior is absolutely unavoidable.

[Egnever]

37. really what cultures have no bullying?

please point those out to me.

[ooglymoogly]

192. Yes there will always be bullying....some countries far less than

others....In my travels and opinion of the countries I have visited, Germany was probably the 1st in the last century and is still somewhat authoritarian;

my guess; we are the first in company with the middle and far east and many parts of Africa, excluding Tunisia; with many falling in the middle. Beirut, Leb. of the 60's used to be a haven of Chacun ses goûts or to each his own and was called the Mid east riviera; but now doubt it, but don't know.

Scandinavian countries; France, Holland,Italy et al, in varying degrees, falling far below the bully curve. Egypt used to be, but now is not.

Things change fast in these craziest of times, moving fast toward the authoritarian; in my 73 years of observance of this planet.

Some other planets, however, far more; some far worse.

[blondeatlast]

44. Let me rephrase--should we not be concerned about the word "nigger"?

My son knows there are words he damn well better not say.

He's a BIG 13 year old and he defends the kids who get picked on--he merely steps in and nothing more. It can be stopped--if adults make it a priority.

[Egnever]

51. At least you hope he does

what he does when not under your eye you have no idea.Everyone wants to think their son/daughter would never do that.. just ask any criminals parents.


Of course it should be discouraged but screaming and hollering about it with no solution doesn't help anyone.

My point is making laws or rules rarely stops bad behavior and that kids are especially prone to pointing out and harassing others that have perceived differences no matter what they are.

[blondeatlast]

56. wow--how many kids do you have? You seem to be chock full of parental wisdom

for me and seabeyond.

[Egnever]

57. 3

want to compare dick sizes too?

[blondeatlast]

59. On that you win. I do so hope none are gay or wear glasses or non-white or ...

For your sake, not theirs.

[Egnever]

62. one has diabetes and wears a pump that looks like a pager

24/7 he has and will be bullied/ teased many times about it. I dont like it but I also dont kid myself that if only we made some rule it would go away. Instead I talk to my kid and explain to him about other kids feeling powerless and how diversity is awesome and not something to be afraid of.

What I dont do is put my head in the sand and hope someone will fix it with the right rule.

Oh and I enroled him in karate.

[blondeatlast]

67. Well, I'll be damned. So do I, and I had to take injections in school for years before I had that.

You shouldn't tolerate that--my parents didn't. One kid got suspended, the other who broke my bottle of insulin got expelled.

Pester the school, then run for school board and win. that's what my mom did.

do let us know how it turns out.

[ooglymoogly]

96. And where do they get these ideas from?

In truth it is not the kids but the tree they fell from. And I'd bet they are pugs. Can anyone imagine a Democratic family raising a bully like these so described or those in the news of late and it is not just gays they bully and make a living hell for.

[hendo]

130. Pugs? This little guy wouldnt hurt a fly

By using words like rethuglican and re-pug we are acknowledging that petty attacks are acceptable. Its the same thing the republicans do when they call us democRATS, and transform our leaders into anthropomorphic rats.

Fight them on policy issues and don't resort to childish attacks.

[ooglymoogly]

142. They do not deserve the title Republican. They are authoritarian idiots

who are trying to take over the government and force their fascist and religious ideas down our throats. Police your or own like minds. Or have you appointed yourself a site monitor, to tell others how they may post?

[dddem]

102. You may be right that rules won't stop bad behavior

But they will certainly reduce it. And if there is a rule or law in place then a bystander (teacher, perhaps) may feel more empowered to intervene. People don't want to put themselves on the line if they don't feel like someone will back them up. There is a difference between trying to convince a person to do the right thing, and telling them they are breaking the law.
Also, if you make something against the law (segragation comes to mind)initially those people who formerly had advantages over others will balk and protest and get angry, but eventually (maybe not for a generation or more) it will become the norm. I'm 50 and I remember all the bussing issues in Boston (just a little too young to have lived through desegregation in the South), and how scary it was at that time, but when I read the Ruby Bridges story to my kids, they just couldn't even imagine there being a problem with an integrated classroom. They just don't get it; it's not an issue. My hope is that my grandchildren will have the same confusion about the controversy regarding civil rights for all Americans, regardless of sexual orientation; it won't be an issue. A girl can dream.
Peace.

[Amaril]

174. Yeah, that's pretty much the same attitude.....

...I got from my son's first grade teacher when she requested a conference with me to -- basically -- tell me that my kid was "weird", that the other kids were beginning to notice that he was "weird" and were torturing him because of it.

When I asked what she was doing to stop it, she just shrugged and said all confused and innocent like "What can I do?". When I said "Well, for starters, when will you be having a conference with the parents of the children who are verbally and physically abusing a classmate to discuss their appalling social skills?", she said -- and I kid you not -- "Their social skills aren't the issue. Your son needs to be on Ritalin."

Got it. Blame the kid who is different and force him to conform by medicating him into submission. Sounds like a fine plan. No wonder kids bully each other when the adults in their world apparently think the weaker / smaller / weirder ones deserve it.

[pacalo]

200. Part of the problem there is that many of those who

Go into the teaching profession are those who had very positive experiences when they were in school. They may have no experience of having been the object of bullying from which to draw in order to properly handle these situations.

Despite having said that, the very least we could expect from educators is common sense, mature judgment, a healthy sense of fairness, & zero tolerance for bullying.

[LanternWaste]

199. Social mores have, can and will continue...

Social mores have, can and will continue to change both public and private behave.

[Rabrrrrrr]

114. Yeah, you're right - might as give up before even trying to effect change. Fuck it.

This is what kids do, and too bad, let the bullied kids kill themselves. It's only - what - 0.05% of the population, anyway. We can absorb those deaths easily.

Let's tell the same thing to women, blacks, and other minorities, too - "Sorry, folks - culture is what is. Ain't gonna change, and ain't no use trying to make it different. Just give up, and accept your fate. It's the only responsible thing to do. Now get back to work, because we got white males who need the shit you're making and need their homes cleaned and have uncontrollable sexual needs it's your responsibility to fulfill. We don't like it that way, believe us, but that's just the universal natural order of things".

[dflprincess]

117. The point is very few schools would put up with racial slurs

or write it off as "kids being kids".

[Posteritatis]

19. Therefore it's okay! (nt)

[Egnever]

32. of course its not

what a stupid thing to say.

[Posteritatis]

46. This coming from someone who seems to think we shouldn't try to address the problem. (nt)

[Egnever]

54. any suggestions from you ? or just outrage!

cause your posturing is tiresome.

[Posteritatis]

61. Beats your indifferent dismissal of the problem.

As for solutions, schools punishing bullies at all would be a nice start, instead of the current default where one can be suspended for being punched. Don't bother trying to tell me that it's impossible for a school to send a kid to detention or suspend them for beating up another kid either, because I don't buy it.

[liberalhistorian]

69. Administrators and teachers can damn well stop

it by not looking the other way when things are reported to them or when they actually witness it, and by making the consequences for such behavior immediate and severe, regardless of how loud the bullying little darlings' parents scream. It CAN be done and it HAS been done. My son's school district was very good at that and always put the kibosh on any of that shit and made clear it wouldn't be tolerated. Repeating the old canard that "kids will be kids" and "there's no rule that will change that" is nothing short of a disgusting cop-out.

[Dappleganger]

72. Some care, and many more choose to look the other way.

The ones who do care quite often put themselves in harm's way (from other teachers, students, parents and admins). It becomes easier to look the other way when you get no support.

[Kajsa]

133. +1

Thank you!

[SargeUNN]

78. if more would follow Drew Brees' example

and simply state if you do this you are no friend of mine it would start to set a standard.

[Kajsa]

135. Yes it would, Sarge.

Drew Brees is a good example.

[dsc]

137. I love Drew Brees

I know he is straight and even if he weren't he would be so out of my league but man he is nuclear hot. Plus he is a good guy to boot.

[Kajsa]

132. It's not part of growing up.

Bullying is not a normal part of anyone's childhood.

Getting teachers, administrators and students to work together,
removing the "snitch" stigma, make bullying "uncool"
and helping each other out is one solution.

[ooglymoogly]

187. Ah yes, but there is a rule....Its called the "golden rule".

and a good teacher can sometimes shame a bullying child, at least nominally, into following its excellent principals, if only to gain acceptance into the civilized world of a well taught classroom or society. The biblical "golden rule" puts christofascit bullies, the worst kind of bully, at odds with this important and basic tenet.

Most bullies lash out from their own inadequacies. Inadequacies that they perceive in others.

They search desperately for those "inadequacies" in others, even if they have to invent them in order to punish; to prove to themselves that they are not the way they, on some level, know they are.

A child fearing homosexual tendencies in himself, having been taught at home that, that is an irredeemable abomination; that will lose them their support structure, sick as it may be; searches it out in others, to attempt to physically destroy it, to the point of even murder; in a delusional effort to eliminate it in himself. Psychotic hypocrites on steroids. An industrial shot of Thorazine might be the only answer. Do I need the sarcasm thingy?

[pacalo]

202. Your last paragraph illuminates a very important point.

Imagine the extra destructiveness to a gay youngster's self-worth when he's bullied at school on top of being belittled at home...

Glad you brought that up.

:cry:

[baldguy]

4. Stop Calling it Bullying.

It's assault & criminal harassment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x513539

[Iris]

8. damn right.

[seabeyond]

26. i think that is important. yes. nt

[exboyfil]

38. You are right

The same things happened to me mostly because I was small for my age (of course the word faggot was not used much - I was still sometimes called faggot with no basis in fact).

When I was in 9th grade, I finally realized that those in authority have absolutely no willingness to use power. Upperclassmen were burning my bicycle seat. My English teacher was walking by. I pointed it out to her, but she did absolutely nothing.

Another case. I was victimized by a bully in 10th grade. He physically struck me more than once without a response on my part. The culminating incident was when he rubbed chalk on my back. I called him a Supreme As***le but did nothing more. He confronted me after class, and asked what I called him. I told him and he punched me bending my glasses and giving me a black eye. Of course I defended myself against this much larger kid at this point. When we are with the administrator I knew and he knew I had witnesses to the entire event. He did not contest my fair rendition of the events, but no punishments were leveled. I asked the administrator what I should do (responding to a physical assault with verbal words alone). He said I should go to someone. Thats really effective. Worked really well in 9th grade when the teacher was a witness.

Those in school are locked in cages, and if their parents are not careful, their kids are going to get hurt. Thank goodness we have very liberal Homeschooling laws in this state. I would not hesitate to pull my kids out under the same circumstances I faced in Junior High.

This is why I like the idea of alternative schools including internet/correspondence etc. I have the resources to do this for my kids. What about the kids and parents that are trapped without the resources. Would it be too much to offer vouchers to get these victimized kids away from their tormenters? (Same argument can be applied for getting kids away from ineffective teachers or classrooms not contusive to learning).

[polichick]

68. Yes, it would help to call it assault and criminal harassment. nt

[uncommon]

84. Amen +100000000000000000

[readmoreoften]

204. +1

[Egnever]

5. as sad as that story is

kids are not adults and theres a reason for that. No one accepts bullying but there is little to nothing you can do to stop it. It is a part of kids growing up to point out the other be they gay or smart or poor or whatever percieved difference.

Pretending you can change that if we just came up with the right rule is silly.

[seabeyond]

28. but... my kids have been in the system and bullying is not allowed. it is that simple

there are enough kids, when one is even starting to be bullied, the other kids put a stop or go to the teacher. they simply have a strong boundary of acceptable, and nothing less is allowed.

[Egnever]

35. right and they only need 16 dollars to go to the movies

Sorry but i am gonna pass on your child rearing knowledge thnx.

[seabeyond]

40. wow. cause i or kids havent been to the movies in forever..... i cant know what is going on in kids

school, or with them?

that is your thinking process adn you are challenging me?

you say, .... we must all suck it up, because it is a reality of kid. we are suppose to buy that lame that perpetuates the problem, yet ignore a reality of what can be done cause it doesnt fit your agenda

so

pathetic.

move along then. you are no help. you are not part of the solution.

you are part of the problem.

[Egnever]

45. nope that aint all

you also think its cool to change diapers in the plane seat. Among other gems of yours. I dont find your parenting theories acceptable or reality based on a lot of levels.

[Dappleganger]

71. And I don't find any of yours acceptable or based in reality, either.

And I have four teens. Your attitude is quite appalling.

[Amaril]

206. +1,000,000,000

[seabeyond]

74. ???? wow. a when and where, like i give a shit. but not remembering that.

ya... let the kids get shit kicked out of themselves, cause that is just being a kid.... is so insightful

[seabeyond]

82. the reality is, there is not the bullying in the school, because it is not allowed. that has nothing

to do with my parent, and all to do with the school, the structure they create adn the seriousness they take with the subject.

and if you dont think parenting thru example does not create a positive effect on children accepting those around shows how clueless you are.

the more kids accepting, and opposing abuse, the less there will be, with adult support.

reality

has nothing to do with me and my parenting

i allowed you to distract with garbage

[TuxedoKat]

141. I think

this is one of the most effective ways to handle it -- the kids recognizing bullying and putting a stop to it. First educate the kids about bullying and then back them up, teaching them that it is not to be tolerated. The kids can do it. I remember in 3rd grade my classmates stopped a bullying situation that was ignored or went unnoticed by the teachers. Well after we stepped in to handle it (without violence) it wasn't a problem after that, the adults saw us trying to solve the problem and stepped in.

Two years ago my daughter was being bullied so we sent her to a private school for a year to get her out of an unhealthy environment. This year she is back in the local public school and standing up to bullies right and left, not for herself so much anymore but for other kids being bullied. It is not going unnoticed by other kids who sometimes follow her example and speak up as well.

[wellstone dem]

167. Kids can be raised to oppose bullying, or perhaps

kids can have the nature to oppose bullying.

This is an amazing video. After I saw it, I said out loud, "I love Lucy."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39172695#39172695

[seabeyond]

169. i have seen it. reinforces my belief. love that video. all the kids did well.

tells us something

[PVnRT]

170. Actually, you can

Make teachers and administrators catch the people doing it when they see it and make the penalties severe.

[derby378]

6. Gays who know how to fight back don't get bashed as often

Predators tend to prey on the easy marks. A T-Rex could take down a single velociraptor without temendous difficulty, but a pack of velociraptors could swarm a T-Rex and take him down before he figured out what happened.

[pnwmom]

36. So what? Not every gay kid has the temperament to fight back.

We need to teach all our kids, gay and straight, to stand up for each other against bullies. But it doesn't have to be done in a physical way.

[derby378]

43. This is the Quaker side of me talking - yes, it does

Every human being is due a certain amount of inherent worth and dignity. But not everyone will respect a gay student's dignity and will seek to rob him of it. That means the gay student needs to learn how to deliver a good uppercut to make the barking dog back off.

[exboyfil]

50. I was real proud of my daughter

Her best friend is of Asian descent. They were in a group with other middle schoolers when one of the group said something about my daughter's friend that was both racially and sexually offensive. My daughter left this group with her friend.

Of course nothing happened to the kid who made the remark. He later was physical with my daughter (grabbed her face), and I made absolutely sure to the administration that I was not going to tolerate any sort of battery. I have tried to teach my children to ignore what is said to them, but to never ignore a physical battery or assault.

[Hepburn]

49. Bad idea, IMO, once violence starts, if often escalates.

There is enough violence in HS and Middle Schools already.

JMHO

[derby378]

52. I don't advocate starting fights - just ending them

The bully had a choice. Now his intended target needs to teach him the consequences of poor judgement.

[HillWilliam]

90. For some of us, an unreasonable fear gets whooped into us

very early on. The shock and pain of physical abuse starting from preschool age makes one a ripe target for bullies at school. Terroristic teachers at parochial school who I later found to have a history of singling out the most timid students and making targets of them for physical and mental abuse added to the stress before junior high. By then I was in public school, suddenly despised for being far ahead in class for several years. Yup, targeted for a nerd at school and certainly not having fun at home.

One can get so bombarded, one doesn't know what to fight, let alone how.

Imagine knowing you're gay. Being bullied was bad enough. I lived in a rural county. I sure as hell didn't want to get dead.

It took me to the age of 34 when it was just about the second time my ex was about to put me in the ER I had. had. e. damn. nough. I call it "that one shining moment" of complete lucidity and proceeded to whip his ass right back.

Not recommended procedure when one stands 5'10 and said ex is 6'9, but if one can move and swing faster scared than ex can mad... :evilgrin: It didn't come to fisticuffs again. The next time a threat was made, I got my keys, got in my car and went to the sheriff's office. Didn't wait. Best move I ever made. He was served in 48 hours, on his way out of the state in 50 ahead of charges (with my car, but I made out okay on that, another story), pissed off the judge at family court within a week by being out of state. The judge already had my statement and the sheriff's officer's report, so was therefor inclined to up the standard 100' distance in the restraining order to 250'. Without my asking.

To the point: the confidence to start a fight comes easily. Any fool can do that and we see the consequences when fools so often do. It takes a whole lot more to end one.

I had tried every tactic the do-nothing teachers or other enabling authority-figures said to do to put me off. They either didn't flat didn't give a shit (perhaps sensing what I didn't admit to anyone outside G'd and myself, and my peers were too unsubtle to pick up; that is, my being gay) or were in on the "joke". Sometimes you have to figure out what works for you and sometimes you're on your own to figure it out.

It isn't and it doesn't have to be a "natural" part of life. Good manners and treating one another politely is just gracious living. It oils the gears of society. That can be taught early just as easily as ill behavior can. I train dogs. Dogs get it: reward good behavior and redirect incorrect behavior toward positive endeavors. I have five well-behaved, well-adjusted dogs I can take in public anywhere.

If a damn dog can get it, there's no excuse for these kids and certainly not for the adults.

I can say life does get better. When you find whatever it is that empowers you inside, you'll find you always had that thing. Nobody can take that away. That thing that keeps you going now is the thing that will always keep you going. When you know what that is, you'll know exactly what to do to fight back and make a safe place for yourself in this world.

Then after it gets better, it gets downright groovy :D

[Hepburn]

131. Not a good idea UNLESS the person is trained to protect him/her self.

Usually a bully is a large sized person. If one does not know what to do, when the violence escalates...then the target is in greater trouble.

[exboyfil]

63. The only effective way I found to handle bullies at the

elementary and junior high level is to give back what was given to the best of your ability (just be sure someone in some sort of authority can quickly see and break it up). This often surprised bullies who escalated until they reached the verifiable assault/battery stage.

Whispered comments at your back - Ignore
Comments to your face - Ignore
Spitballs/rubber bands to you back (no way to verify perpetrator) - Ignore
Steal something from you without you seeing - Report theft - nothing happens
Steal something of yours in front of you - Retrieve item - physically if necessary
Pushing, slapping, punching - Time for full out response to the best of your ability

I am not saying it is right, but in Southern California in the 1970s I was locked in a cage and I was only freed when I moved to Mississippi. Administrators don't do jack even when a 6th grader punches a small 4th grader in the nose.

You don't have to be homosexual to experience this, just be different than the rest of the crowd. For me it was my size and bookishness.

I would be dead from suicide if my parents had not moved after 9th grade. The constant crap was unbearable. I will never let my daughters experience the same.

[Posteritatis]

86. So they should... what, exactly? Curl up on the ground and wait for the blows to stop? (nt)

[Deep13]

176. The victim isn't the one who decides when violence starts. nt

[bluestateguy]

81. We do need to be promoting self-defense in our schools

Not instead of, but in addition to holding administrators and teachers (yes, that's right teachers too) accountable for stopping bullying in its tracks. Nor am I against preventative programs that are aimed at stopping bullying. That's all fine and good and I support it.

But once the bully hits you, you can either defend yourself, attempt to run away or simply sit back and get your ass kicked. That's where we need to be helping to turn victims into defenders. Sometimes a school bully needs a black eye or a broken nose more than a sensitivity training seminar run by someone in beads in Birkenstocks.

[dddem]

103. On the other hand,

According to my understanding of our school districts "Zero Tolerance" policy, if my daughter gets hit (she was threatened, because the ex-girlfriend of her boyfriend claims she's 'just one of those people you want to punch in the face'. this girl was previously suspended for hitting in school), and defends herself against this bully by hitting back, she will just as suspended as the bully. No questions asked.

[dflprincess]

119. That's exactly what would happen

Strange the schools all claim to have a "Zero Tolerance" policy about violence but when it comes to bullying they throw up their hands and claim they can't do anything. Perhaps Zero Tolerance polices should be extended to verbal abuse.

[Xithras]

189. My son is enrolled in a "Creative Personal Defense" course.

He's straight, but he's a pretty small kid and was getting bullied a bit.

I liked the instructor. On the first day, he said this: "Some karate senseis will tell you that any 90 pound weakling can beat any 250 pound linebacker if they know the right hits and blocks. They're lying. Physics doesn't care what form you use. I plan on teaching you 90 pound weaklings how to use a baseball bat. There is no such thing as excessive force when trying to neutralize an immediate threat to your life and safety."

The entire class has been about recognizing and avoiding confrontation before it starts, keeping your head once it does, and using your environment as a weapon to win.

Did you know, for example, that a plain old 3 ring binder can make a devastating weapon if flipped inside out and swung hard at an opponents face and arms? Or that an ordinary sharpened #2 pencil has a lower penetration resistance level than most pocketknives (the graphite in the tip acts as a sort of built in lubrication)?

[Ter]

207. Not according to science and history channels

A T-Rex was so powerful, not even a pack would dare attack it.

[Iris]

7. I have thought of this many times.

Why do we think kids should put up with at school what we wouldn't put up with in the workplace or anywhere else?

[Norrin Radd]

10. kr

[zanana1]

11. Good point.

I was livid as I was reading your story. Toward the end of it, I felt absolutely helpless. I don't know what we're going to do to change this.

[muffin1]

12. K&R n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Why, we're going to defend Valerie Jarrett and others who are misinformed, of course.

[boppers]

154. Being part of some of those threads...

Attacking somebody for any "lifestyle choice", "chosen gender", "fashion choices", etc. is where the line needs to be drawn.

Of course, some choose to attack Jarrett instead....

:sarcasm:
...because if different "code words" were employed, the problem itself would go away, right? This is a linguistics issue, right?
:sarcasm:

[Just One Woman]

14. I think they should call the police

It is criminal harassment. I have talked to many teenagers and told them the same things. And it doesn't matter what it is about. Harassment is harassment. As a parent, I would call the police, if only to file the report. No one has to take it. As a society, we must stand up to this criminal behavior.

[Brickbat]

20. This is the same argument I make against spanking, actually.

Why DO we accept violence against children? Whether it's institutionalized in the family, or comes from peers? This is an excellent question, and excellent framing.

[myrna minx]

22. K&R n/t

[seabeyond]

24. what we do dsc, is not allow it in our schools. my sons middle school is little enough

we know what is happening. HS, not so much. but as adults and parents we raise our children to be accepting of all. not allow bullying. it takes one to stand up for bullied. and to let us know if there is a problem and we will become part of the solution. i like what bree said. messages like that are important. at our school, there is a tough no bullying, and they keep the kids in line. maybe too harshly, but then there is not a kid that is being abused either.

we take responsibility as a society

we show our children thru example by not being bullies and standing up to them

we teach our children by being accepting fo all, even when it is agaisnt something we believe or is something we do not believe.

we show each other respect, and expect adn demand it of our children.

that is the only kind of answer i have, at what we as individuals can do.

[donco6]

27. Blame teachers?

That's what "we" do on DU anyway.

[seabeyond]

30. ya.... nt

[Jim Sagle]

180. Only those of us who are paid five bucks an hour to dispense DLC hogwash do that.

;)

[donco6]

185. That is true - and I apologize to the majority of DU that DOESN'T do it.

:thumbsup:

[Bluebear]

29. Well, after all, you made that lifestyle choice

:crazy:

[Behind the Aegis]

33. That's how I prefer it!

:evilgrin:

[pnwmom]

31. Great post, dsc. That's exactly how it is. n/t

[MrSlayer]

47. Pepper spray is effective against people trying to assault you.

Self-defense is a virtue in this country. Of course, a billiard ball inside a sock is also a good way to go.

[Egnever]

58. have to agree

the best thing you can do for your kid is teach them self defense.

[blondeatlast]

70. In school? Why should the victim get expelled? nt

[MrSlayer]

80. Why would they for defending themselves?

OK, the pool ball in the sock is hyperbole, this isn't a prison movie, but pepper spray is perfectly acceptable. You don't have to accept being a victim.

[Posteritatis]

85. Most schools' zero-tolerance policies forbid self-defense.

Seriously. There's no shortage of schools where a bully can walk up to someone, punch them in the face completely unprovoked, and the victim will get suspended (or, if they're lucky, also get suspended) even if they don't do anything to protect themselves.

If a student carried pepper-spray in school, they would almost certainly be arrested in a typical school these days, though. Remember, students get expelled for weapons offenses for drawing a weapon of some sort.

[blondeatlast]

97. I should have explained that, but you are correct. It's written into the zero-tolerance

policy at my son's school that self-defense is not tolerated wither.

[Posteritatis]

100. Okay, a school actually *requiring* an assault victim to submit to the attack is pretty audacious..

Ugh.

[MrSlayer]

99. If the bully can get off scott free so can the erstwhile victim.

If they play their cards right.

[AngryOldDem]

134. It would also be a good way to get yourself expelled from school...or worse.

Schools don't work that way.

All the more reason for administrators to be held more accountable for what goes on in the halls of their schools.

[MrSlayer]

213. Well, you can either take shit or fight back.

In many cases it's better to fight back than to take abuse continuously.

[BzaDem]

48. K & R!

[treestar]

53. Don't let it get to you is what I'd say

I was often teased and left out at school too. the people who do it are the losers. Don't forget that.

[TexasObserver]

55. Great post that brings home the terrible problem of gay bashing at schools.

Until gay bashing results in expulsions and loss of extra curricular rights, it will continue.

[polichick]

60. Well put. The situation is heartbreaking...

I heard a program on NPR about this and the bullying expert said that what has to be done is to motivate those who stand around and do nothing to take action. Right now there are the bullies and enablers, those few brave and compassionate kids who take a stand - and a huge group of people, both kids and adults, who do nothing.

[foxfeet]

64. K&R

[petronius]

65. Well, if you'd been smacked around more as a kid you'd be better able to stand up

for yourself now. Youthful horseplay is how boys become men. :sarcasm:

Great OP. Put your analogy with the 'When did you decide?' query and only the most intransigent bigots will be unable to see the point(s). Unfortunately, there are lots of those bigots and they're capable of impressive mental gymnastics to cling to their prejudices...

[Ignis]

66. K&R. Well played.

:thumbsup:

[PROchoiceGA]

73. Sorry this happened n/t

[dsc]

77. It didn't

at least not at work. That was a pretty typical day at middle school for me though.

[HockeyMom]

79. My daughter took out the class bully at 6

She was special needs and did not talk. One day the class bully scribbled all over, and WROTE HIS NAME on, her art work. When she saw this, she waited until recess and took her art with her. She tore it up in front of him saying he ruined her project that she spent hours working on. She pushed him to the ground, throwing the papers at him, and screamed a tirade at him. As the teacher later told me, the entire recess staff just stood there totally stunned. Not just at the fact that this very petite little girl, who never said boo before, was lashing out verbally, and physically, against the class bully who was twice her size.

They both ended up in the Principal's office, but want to guess which one of these kids got the short end of the stick so to speak? It was not my daughter who was defending her rights. Maybe she should not have hit him, but she had every right to defend her "property".

It amazed me at the time, that my daughter had somehow learned at such a young age to defend herself. I certainly never said anything to her, although being small and female myself, I have had my share of being picked on because of it,

[Danger Mouse]

83. Good post. Rec.

[littlewolf]

87. wow

until I got to the end ... I was going to send you the names of
a few good laywers ....

[chelsea0011]

88. Excellent post! Well done

[adamuu]

89. I have to compliment you on this post

It paints such a clear picture. It doesn't spare a word.

[malaise]

91. Super post

Everyone should get it.

[Curmudgeoness]

92. Excellent way to bring home the point. This has to be taken

seriously by administration, teachers, parents, and everyone even remotely involved in the schools.

[ooglymoogly]

94. Excellent way to teach. kr nt

[Divine Discontent]

95. exactly... it must stop. it's not bullying I realize, it's HARRASSMENT & abuse (emo & phys)

[HillWilliam]

98. I had my keys in my hand

then I read the last paragraph :)

I'm getting to old to hand out asswhoopin's but I would absolutely stand beside you. That's a fightin' word. My husband and I don't even use it. Younger folks are okay with, even embrace the word "queer", but I've always hated it. There's so much bad medicine in it for me.

Like I posted above, I train dogs. Well, I lead them with love. They get positive feedback when they do what I ask of them and they're redirected when I don't get the behavior I want. I have five dogs; that's like five three-year-olds. Oh, and they're mostly herding dogs. Three-year-old kids on sugar. But they're sane, happy, well-adjusted, fair-minded and well-behaved. They never squabble amongst themselves and I can take them anywhere in public. I never have to resort to physical punishment. I considered that unnecessary as a child (what I suffered was abuse, complete with bruises and cuts) and I've proven it unnecessary since.

Five dogs. And they all get it. My partner and I have a peaceful house with love in it, a big yard around it where dogs love to play.

Now if the two of us can manage that with dogs and the damn dogs get it then :wtf: is wrong with the parents and teachers and the human kids who don't? I refuse to believe I am smarter than all those parents and teachers or my dogs are smarter than the kids are, love my dogs though I do.

The pattern of abuse begetting abuse will continue until we collectively have the will to stop it. I can be stopped. I related my own story upthread. If I can come out of pure hell and find a peaceful life surrounded by love, I am proof the cycles can be broken.

It gets better. Then it goes on to delightful.

[David Zephyr]

101. Another K&R.

:)

[HughBeaumont]

105. THANK. YOU.

It's fucking ASSAULT, and adults better goddamned TREAT it as such.

[Captain Boomerang]

106. Record the events... continue to record... call the ACLU

You have a law suit waiting to happen.

You should be contacting an ACLU rep in your area like yesterday.

[AnnieBW]

109. Oh, how Middle School of them

Document the evidence. Does your company have an EEO office? If so, go to them.

[TBF]

110. K&R nt

[Jack_Dawson]

111. Congratulations!!!

You can now retire off your hostile workplace lawsuit. Luckyyyyyyy!

:toast:

[anachro1]

112. Get a good attorney

and enjoy yourself!

[donheld]

113. I've been there baby, many many times.

[lonestarnot]

118. We are going to take names and kick ass.

[Hawkeye-X]

121. File a complaint with the EEOC in terms of workplace harassment

and your boss' failure to take action.

That's what I'd do.

Hawkeye-X

[kevinbgoode]

156. That reminds me of a job I had years ago. . .

and I was harassed on occasion by a few other employees because I was gay. . .and one would be deliberately uncooperative whenever I had to approach him to get some task completed in the office. The first couple of times I let it pass, though I was boiling inside. . .the third time, I quietly went back to my desk, called human resources and the union office, read their policies about harassment from the company manual and the union by-laws to them, and told them I would notify any outside agency required to effectively handle this situation. I never had a problem with that employee again.

A few years later, I was up for a promotion that I was considering into a position working on plant outside - a few of the "real men" started leaking things like "we'll slit the tires on his truck" and "I won't work with him" - even though none of them (except their supervisor) had ever worked with me before. My response? I was calm, though angry. . .I did the same thing as the first time - and I didn't care if that meant going after their jobs. When I went up there to meet the crew for an interview, several wouldn't shake my hand - and some were pissed off because I was in much better physical shape than most of them and could easily handle the physical demands. Their supervisor, however, who I had worked under before, surprised me - he really let the haters have it. . .and while I decided against taking the position (work hours would prevent me from finishing college courses) I know I broke down some barriers.

Still, in the office, the occasional remark was made. But I was elected union rep by my peers and was voracious in defending others - including the bigots - so by the time I left that company, no one disrespected me to my face. I would occasionally hear something being said from one of my co-worker friends, and I would laugh and say "I don't think they get it - I don't care if they like me or not, but they are going to respect me just as they expect to be respected."

I can tell you that I received exemplary reviews, and yet would get overlooked for management positions - and once was told confidentially by a supervisor that everyone knew I did good work, but that I didn't have a "mentor" - and wouldn't get one - because I was "gay." By that time, I was nearly finished with my bachelor's degree and started setting my sights on getting out of that place, but I knew he was speaking the truth. It's funny - when I left there after almost a dozen years, there were scores of co-workers who threw me a going away party at a favorite watering hole. I was so touched - I had been so used to having to stand on my own that, despite making friends at work who are still friends today, I didn't expect or think I had made such an impact. But I do know that standing up helped those who came there after me, and the company and union eventually changed and adopted policies offering stronger protections.

[activa8tr]

166. Maybe that would be a new tool for kids to use...after all it IS a

workplace!

[southmost]

122. The first couple of sentences are totally believable

even in today's workforce.

[femrap]

124. I've been called

cunt numerous times. And bitch twice a day. Bitch is even common on DU. I could list further demeaning terms, but I'm sure you know them.

At least you're working...sue for harassment. Hard to sue people on the street.....or DUers.

But I do understand your anger...I was born angry.

[jennied]

125. K&R - And BTW, I'm so glad that I went to a very liberal High School...

Where people could be who they were without being hated. Something has to be done about this.

[SocialistLez]

126. Brings back memories, unfortunately.

I remember eating in the background or up against a wall by myself.

::sigh::

[Radical Activist]

128. I've said before

that if things which happen daily in schools were to happen to an adult in the workplace it would result in firings and lawsuits. It's ridiculous.

About changing it...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=474275&mesg_id=474275

[Honeycombe8]

129. I don't think "we" accept that for kids. That's horrible.

Bullying for any reason, not just being gay, is horrible, and teachers and any adult hearing anything, seeing anything, or being told anything, need to do something about it.

Kids are bullied for being different in any way...overweight, wearing glasses, being geeky, being too tall, being too short, having a medical condition that shows, being really poor, dressing poor, qualifying for the free lunches, being too skinny, being gay or seeming effiminate, and the list goes on and on.

I didn't see much of this growing up. Maybe because I'm from a small city, and the schools were smaller (adults had more control over the small population of kids...and we all lived within a small radius of each other, etc.). My 6th grade class did get a talking to by our teacher about talking bad about others or calling others names. She must've heard something through the open windows (I think she said that). I don't know what she heard. But...and this is important...her talking to made a HUGE impression on me. I remember it to this day, over 40 years later.

Teachers can have an enormous impact on this sort of thing.

[Kajsa]

136. Thanks for posting this, Dsc!

I am glad this didn't happen to you,
but very sad that it does happen to
so many young people!

:(

[dsc]

138. thanks

it did happen to me in middle school, I frankly took a probably slightly worse than typical day for me from middle school but no it doesn't happen to me now.

[sagetea]

139. When humans lose their humanity...

they become monsters. This is what we are up against, and it breaks our collective hearts.

[demigoddess]

140. yes, much of this happened to my kids. I think that schools

allow way too much violence in schools.

[Greyhound]

143. Absolutely nothing.

This the Disjointed state of Dumbfuckistan where ignorance rules and servile obedience to mob mentality is the most valued personality trait.
:kick: & R

[Dragonfli]

144. K&R Excellent post

[hedgehog]

145. Even though you made up the story to make the point, I can believe

that this could happen to an adult at work. I am a female engineer. Most engineers don't give a damn who does the work as long as the work gets done right. I had the misfortune to end up working at two places where I was ostracized by my co-workers. I sent out resumes every week, but I had to stay and take it because I needed the job. As many have noted above, abuse doesn't have to be physical to be devastating. The effects aren't as obvious as a bruise, but they can linger for years.

[mistertrickster]

146. What are we going to do to change this? Handguns. I like a solid steel automatic,

but a Colt-type revolver is more reliable . . .

[saras]

148. Rules...

OF COURSE rules don't stop bullying - PEOPLE stop bullying, and rules give them the legal and moral authority to do so. Conversely, the lack of rules conveys to bullies the message that what they are doing is acceptable. For people who just can't seem to follow sensible rules we have big concrete boxes with steel bars across the windows and doors.

[Meldread]

149. I was really worried!

I'm glad the story wasn't true, but you pushed home your point perfectly. Too many people think this type of behavior is acceptable when applied to kids, but have a totally different view when applied to adults. The sad part is that there are some cases where this actually happens to LGBT adults as well.

After reading your post and the responses it got me thinking about my nephews. The oldest is now in second grade. Since I was bullied badly in school it is a constant worry that he'll find himself subjected to bullying - or worse - participate in it. I'm proud of him though. Ever since he could walk I've attempted to encourage him to stand up for himself against people who mistreat him.

Example: When he was around two years old a five year old kid came over (in a public playground), pushed him to the ground, and took his football away. Despite being shorter, weaker, and weighing less he ran up behind the bully, and without saying a word, shoved him to the ground, punched him in the back of the head, and took his football back.

A lot of adults would look at that situation and condemn him for being so rough. After all, he could have run to any of the adults there and they would have gotten it back for him. I was pleased, told him so, congratulated him, and told him that's how he should deal with others who steal from him and push him around. You fight back.

I saw it as a valuable lesson for both children. The older child learned that being a bully and taking another kids toy has repercussions that he might not be able to anticipate, thus he's less likely to do the same in the future. My nephew learned that he could stand up for himself, and deal with those who would do the same to him in the future.

A more recent example regarding my nephew, this one a bit more heartwarming... This year he started the second grade, and like always there is a period of time where people (kids and adults alike) begin to size up strangers. It's the point in time where physical appearances can work against you dramatically. Well they had gone out for their first recess, and he was with a group of kids that were playing with a basketball. Another kid, not part of the group, wanted to play. None of the others in the group wanted to let him play, most likely because he had hearing aids. My nephew took the ball, gave it to the kid, and asked him to play with the group.

The only reason we found out about this is because when he came home he told my sister what had happened, and asked 'what were the weird things behind his ears?' LOL. Apparently he didn't want to ask directly because he felt it might embarrass the other kid or hurt his feelings or something.

Again, this behavior was rewarded and encouraged. This is the only way that I know to prevent bullying - it starts at home, with the family - both the parents and extended family as well.

I worry about my nephews because my brother-in-law is in the military and they move around a lot. It means that they'll constantly enter new school after new school, having to start from fresh all over again. New kids are often easy targets for bullies, especially bullies that are well entrenched because by attacking those new to the group they place them in the proper 'pecking order.'

I'm contemplating on teaching my oldest nephew on ways to defend himself and others. For example, teach him how to identify herd mentality. Schools are full of them. If one kid begins insulting another, especially insistently, others will follow in that kids lead - even the victims own friends. This is especially true for younger kids around his age.

One thing I'm definitely going to have to teach him is a way to not display a weakness. He has a tendency to argue a point, even when its clear that he's losing. Thus, I know if someone began to insult him, his natural instinct would be to immediately begin verbally defending himself against the insults. That's a bad move because by defending yourself you only prove that it's something that offends you. The best move he could make would be to laugh, shrug it off, make it seem like it doesn't matter. Then immediately turn the tables, seek out some weakness in the bully and return the verbal attack. If used in conjunction with the herd mentality kids so easily display, if he were to then mock the bully about it again and again, others would swiftly begin to follow in his footsteps.

Bully's most often attack others due to their own insecurities. Learning those insecurities and attacking them where they are most vulnerable is the best way for another kid to handle a bully. Show no fear, don't allow yourself to be intimidated, and don't follow the herd - if the heard is doing one thing, do the exact opposite. By not following the herd you mark yourself a leader, and others are bound to be interested in following you instead. Also, defend those who get bullied - especially people who are the subject of constant bullying. Not everyone has the ability or the courage to stand up for themselves, so by standing up for them you become their hero, and as reward you're virtually assured an extremely loyal and grateful friend.

[pezDispenser]

150. I'm not gay

God knows I'm not the cool guy in the room - or wasn't in middle/high school - still aren't. We aren't ever going to stomp out bigotry, at least not in our grandkids lifetime, so maybe we concentrate on the worth of the individual. Hell, maybe we alert them to the things that make them individuals are what make them interesting.

Nobody ever answers the 'who would you invite to dinner' question by naming 4 middle aged bankers. Its always 4 oddballs.


Hate the OP btw, comparing adults to middle school children is self serving.

[Swamp Rat]

151. k&r

[bkozumplik]

155. kids are mean little barbarians

good luck changing it.

[Enthusiast]

157. A big K&R.....nt

[onlyadream]

159. Oh MY GOD! That's horrible!

Where do you live???
Can you take this up with HR? What about filing a police report for harassment? With all that's been going around, they should take this seriously. :(

[dsc]

162. reread the post carefully

It is like a day in middle school for me but the post is an analogy.

[onlyadream]

215. oops, sorry - i missed the last paragraph for some reason

I think I was too pissed to go on. Yes, it's a huge problem. I just heard the "it gets better" speech the other day, and I was happy to hear this b/c it's so true. Unfortunately I don't know that the speech would reach the ears of those who need it.

The schools where I live are very into the anti-bully thing. But they should get more specific about it. I think the whole anti-gay thing has gotten worse thanks to the brain dead politicians given air time to voice their KKK-like hatred. Paladino implies that it's a choice when it clearly isn't. What kid wants to be different, to the point where he is ridiculed that he feels so much despair that he takes his own life. Seriously. A choice??

[nicky187]

160. Similar harassment ...

... does occur in the workplace.

Why do we put up with it? In France, if you try to cut back on cigarette breaks, they're tipping busses over in the street & burning them. They don't put up with this shit, so who are the real sissies on how they let themselves get treated?

Time to put an end to this shit, perhaps by "any means necessary."

[ProfessorGAC]

161. Time To Hire A Lawyer

This fits the defintion of hostile work environment to a "T". I'm looking at the definition in Smith and Roberson's Business Law. Read it just before i posted.

Whether management sees it or not, it is still a hostile work environment.

Find a lawyer who'll work on contingency.
GAC

[dsc]

164. very unlike you, reread the post carefully

[ProfessorGAC]

172. Duh! My Bad!

I stand more than corrected. Read without paying attention, apparently.
GAC

[dsc]

173. no problem as I said very unlike you

you are far from the only one but you were the most surprising.

[activa8tr]

165. GREAT POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!! You had me believing you in the

first paragraph, and I was going to say, what kind of hell on earth workplace is that?

Very good points! Public schools can be hell-on-earth workplaces for kids from 5-25 if you happen to be gay.

Teachers and administrators can and must do their parts, but parents and peer students have a role to play, too.

In the best public schools, at the high school level, there are gay/straight alliances for the kids, with both gay and straight students supporting each other to fight bigotry and bullying. Of course, at the less progressive schools, that kind of alliance is seen and "pushing the gay agenda".

Sigh!:shrug:

[dsc]

168. I advise mine at my school

and I think it makes a difference. I was mostly pleasantly surprised by the results of a survey I gave the students about anti gay stuff at school. The only big disappointment was that they felt the least safe in classrooms (as opposed to the halls, cafe, bus, bathrooms) and that about half felt that only I, or only I and a very few others, could be gone to about this.

[activa8tr]

171. Then you are doing your part! A big THANK YOU! from

me and thousands of other people who are grateful.

Give us your insight from experience. How well is it accepted? Are many students involved?

[The Uncola]

175. Great use of analogy..

.. in story form. Having lived through that sort of treatment in school myself, not as a "faggot" but as "hey fatboy," I identify with the terror all victims of bullies feel, in a very dark place within myself. what "we" can do is fairly straight forward, whenever a school's administration fails to address the problem of bullying, regardless of who the victims are, or what it is that makes them "different," fire them. There is absolutely no excuse for them failing at their most important and primary duty, which is to protect the children in their charge.

[bdamomma]

178. I bet it happens

A course in Diversity/Compassion/tolerance should be offered.

[LWolf]

179. I have to point out

that if it happened at work, your boss COULD do something about it. He doesn't have a legal responsibility to employ everyone who works there. He can fire people for cause.

Principals can't.


That said, I'd change things like this:

1. Small schools. When there are fewer students, more adults know more students by name, and have established relationships with them. That is a strong deterrent.

2. More adults. Fund the staffing of schools so that all areas, including bathrooms, are supervised closely enough to catch these things. That's a difference between elementary and secondary schools. Elementary schools usually have an adult with children.

3. Classes and programs that teach social skills for all ages. We do some of this already, of course, but I'd like to see this get more time, attention, and resources.

4. Hold students accountable for those social skills. There are many different ways to do this; choose more than one and implement them consistently.

5. Put a safe reporting system in place.

6. Mandated counseling, and family counseling, for bullies. Find a way to fund it and make it work.

[The Uncola]

183. Perhaps THIS is the problem:

"your boss COULD do something about it. He doesn't have a legal responsibility to employ everyone who works there. He can fire people for cause.

Principals can't."

Hmmmm? Maybe no one should be exempt from being fired for cause, including teachers and any other school staff who aren't doing their job.

[LWolf]

209. Teachers can be fired for cause. And they are.

Admins just have to use due process.

You've obviously missed, deliberately, the point though. The point is that bosses can fire employees, but schools can't fire students.

[The Uncola]

214. Nonsense.

Students committing serious infractions can be expelled, the equivalent of being "fired." Pretending that schools and school administrators have no tools to enforce discipline is just another lame cop out.

[LWolf]

216. Students committing serious infractions can be expelled.

When they are expelled, they are sent to another public school, because the system has to serve them. That's a transfer, not a firing.

The tools to enforce discipline are limited.

[The Uncola]

217. Keep right on..

.. making excuses for failure, it's working just grand, ain't it?

[LWolf]

218. Making excuses for WHAT failure, exactly?

The OP is comparing the workplace to school. While I completely agree with the OP about the need to protect the safety of ALL students at school, I pointed out that the analogy he used didn't fit, because bosses can fire employees, while schools can't fire students.

You've been trying to attack that fact ever since. You've tried misdirection, and you've tried making it personal.

Why not just give up? There's nothing you can do to change the point my response to the OP made. Why try to make it about something different? It isn't.

I'd say, "Welcome to DU," but if that's the best you can do, never mind.

[The Uncola]

219. Analogies now have to..

... hit 100% of every detail to work, do they? That's news to me, teach.

And BTW, I don't recollect ever asking you for anything, least of all, a "welcome." That would use such a thing as a lame attempt at an insult, says a whole fuck of a lot more about you, than it does me. Have a nice day.

[LWolf]

220. I imagine that there's a wealth of things that are news to you.

And that's a strawman, to say the least.

I'm having a great day, despite your complete failure to achieve anything at all by jumping in to attack without a foundation.


I don't know if that's your usual MO; and I don't really care. Good luck with that.

[krkaufman]

181. Unproductive post.

Little is to be gained from this approach.

[lumberjack_jeff]

186. Excellent reality check

I think we forget what school is like.

K&R

[AngryAmish]

188. I think you should see a lawyer, asap

[izzybeans]

193. k and r

Excellent way to make the point that must be made.

[Maru Kitteh]

194. Thanks dsc. Well done. Very well done. n/t

[pacalo]

196. My blood pressure went up when I first read this.

I've witnessed very unkind behavior toward gays in the workplace & it angered me enough to speak up. My boss was given a snide remark about his vests that he wore everyday & I looked at the social bully square in the eyes & said that I loved his vests. Small thing, I know, but I didn't want my boss to feel alone at that moment.

Every little bit helps our GLBGQ friends.

I've always liked you, dsc -- glad this was a fictional incident.

:hi:

[marew]

197. My eyes were tearing up.

I wish we could start support groups for gay teens for one thing. So many of these kids feel so alone. And schools should be held accountable for allowing this to continue. Perhaps school personnel need sensitivity training.

[budkin]

201. Middle school was the worst time of my entire life

[defendandprotect]

205. Agree ... "bullying" really doesn't explain sufficiently what goes on ... and damage done.

[Bette Noir]

208. Actually, I've been subject to this exact kind of harassment

simple for being female. In every instance, I have immediately written up the harassment and turned it in to the chain of command. In every instance but one, I was met with an abject apology. In the only episode in which the harasser refused to apologize, I was given a transfer I desperately wanted, but the harasser had been blocking.

It's a shame that high school kids who are harassed for any reason don't have recourse.

[Juche]

210. Did the title change

I thought the original title was 'I called a faggot at work today', w/o the 'got'. I found that funny.

But yeah, kids can be barbarians. And assholes. We were all primates trying to be the alpha male/female. I love growing older and more mellow.

But we adults aren't perfect. We ridicule celebrities until they get eating disorders.

[adamuu]

211. This post is so awesome, I came back to praise it again

[DailyGrind51]

212. You were subjected to an "uncomfortable work environment" and should file a grievance!