I don't think pot should be legalized

[salinen]

I'm sorry but I don't like the idea of the state endorsing intoxication. But before you tear me a new one, I am going to vote for it's legalization. Why? Because the punishment is stupid. To me, people who smoke pot for recreation are not criminals. There should be no punishment. To say that alcohol is more dangerous is correct but beside the point. And this has nothing to do with pot as a medicine.

I'll get very few who will agree with this but I think kids should not be encouraged to smoke pot. They do better in school without it.

O.K. I'm done, here are some rotten tomatoes.

[name not needed]

1. And I don't like the state telling me what I can put into my body.

[salinen]

me neither

I just don't want them to endorse it.

[Chulanowa]

17. That's a ridiculous argument n/t

[Dogtown]

73. Legalization does not equal endorsement.

It merely admits the government should not have a say in my moral choices.

[Statistical]

78. What makes you think the state is endorsing it.

Making something legal isn't an endorsement.

Abortions are legal. By your logic that means the state is encouraging women to end their pregnancy?

Where do you get the idea that repealing laws that makes something illegal (and by definition anything NOT illegal is legal we don't write laws for what is legal) is an endorsement?

[uncommon]

80. Legalizing something is not the same as endorsing it. The state should not be

telling people what they can and cannot put in their own bodies.

[GodlessBiker]

2. Having an abortion is legal. Is the state endorsing having an abortion because they are legal?

[ixion]

3. "endorsing intoxication"? Not in the slightest. Prohibition doesn't work.

And the result of trying to legislate morality in the form of prohibition has caused nothing but trouble.

I can appreciate your willing to support legalization, but your reasoning about endorsing intoxication is off-the-mark.

[Mojambo]

4. Driving is legal, but we don't encourage (or even allow) kids to do it

It'll still be illegal for kids to smoke pot. Legalizing it won't be encouraging its use among kids.

[tridim]

5. It really is medicine, you just don't know it yet.

Yes, it has a nice side effect of mild euphoria, which relaxes me and relieves stress like nothing else. Stress is a known killer.

Cannabis is good for ME. That statement of fact is nobody's business but my own.

[Hawkeye-X]

54. Bingo!

:hi:

[Regret My New Name]

6. Making it legal doesn't mean making it legal for minors too...

Alcohol and cigarettes are legal for adults but not minors. Making it legal for adults does not mean that every kid is going to start smoking pot. Besides, the ones who really want to smoke pot are going to end up doing it anyway.

I'm curious, are you saying that you think it should be legal to smoke/have pot but not to grow and sell it? I'm confused by the 'it shouldn't be legal, but people shouldn't get in trouble for it' Why even bother giving it an illegal status then? Do you just want fines?

[Kerrytravelers]

9. Fines... hmmm... the CA budget crisis would be gone!

:rofl:

[salinen]

14. Legal over 18

No punishment, but maybe something like traffic school for underaged users without a prescription.

[Kerrytravelers]

7. I, too, am voting for the legalization.

And I will look forward to being able to enjoy it at a "pot bar", much like a wine bar. And, just like alcohol, I have no problem with children not drinking. I, however, think the legal drinking age should be lowered to 18 and/or not in high school. I think an 18 year old college freshmen should be able to drink legally in a bar. And I think an 18 year old out of high school should be able to smoke pot without fear of legal ramifications.

I'm not exactly sure how to deal with the in school/out of school issue. I'd say out of high school, free to make choices, but as an educator in alternative education, I have many 20 year olds still getting their high school diploma. A 20 year old should have the right to smoke pot legally.

[demmiblue]

8. I don't get the endorsing part.

:shrug:

[HuckleB]

13. I think the OP title is for attention. He is obviously actually for legalizing marijuana.

[salinen]

20. Not exactly

remove all punishment and pot becomes legal without the ballot initiative. It's a small point but to me important.

[HuckleB]

22. No, it's not important.

[salinen]

26. Ah, I see what you mean.

[surrealAmerican]

31. That wouldn't work.

The laws making it illegal would still be technically in effect, and if, for whatever reason, the police wanted to harass a person, they could decide to arrest her for having pot.

[salinen]

15. Well

if all the punishments were taken away, it would be defacto legal without the state promoting it.

[fishwax]

56. I don't either n/t

[TBF]

10. I am for legalization to take away the illegal market,

and also for the medicinal purposes. I would think the gov't would be all over this - they could tax it like any other product. And frankly most fast food is probably more dangerous for our bodies ...

[brewens]

11. I think it should be mandatory for a few people I know. They

shouldn't be allowed to leave the house without a couple of bong hits!

[HuckleB]

12. Thus, you do think pot should be legalized. (What's the point of this OP?)

[salinen]

18. The point

Recreational drug use is o.k. for some, but we all know people who can't keep it there. The state (our government) should remove the punishment and therefore, defacto, it's legal. No endorsements or ballot initiative.

[HuckleB]

21. Where's the endorsement?

At this point in time, a ballot initiative is necessary.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. I don't think it should, either. I know it should.

[pipi_k]

19. Well I can respect that....

It's not so much that we all NEED to believe in the same things, but that we don't infringe on the rights of others just because we don't happen to believe in whatever.


I agree with you that kids should not be encouraged (and that's the key word here...encouraged) to do anything that might harm them, and that includes smoking pot. Or smoking cigarettes, or drinking, or having unprotected sex.

They'll probably try one or all of those anyway, without encouragement.

;)

[salinen]

24. exactly

n.t.

[WingDinger]

23. Thats what Libertarianism got right. It is stupid to require an evermore draconian law to prove you

are not FOR something.

[eShirl]

25. mm kay

"I don't think pot should be legalized"
"I am going to vote for it's legalization."

:crazy:

[Xicano]

27. How about on the idea of "freedom"?

If you don't support endorsing intoxication, how about endorsing the idea nothing spells freedom more than the right to our own bodies, and to outlaw an activity regarding what we do to our own bodies is the height of oppression. Make selling to minors unlawful, that's fine. Make penilties for crimes committed while under the influence more expensive, that's somewhat fine. Make driving while under the influence a crime, that's fine. But in my opinon I cannot reconcile the notion that we are the land of the free when we have laws outlawing personal activity regarding what we do with our own bodies.

Anyway, please don't take this wrong salinen, its just me ranting.. :)



Peace,
Xicano

[salinen]

30. Well you went futher than me

DUI's and such. Take away all fines and punishment for possession, and it's legal without using the voting booth. The state should butt out.

[Xicano]

57. Thanks salinen for your input.

Its not that I am against your suggestion because it certainly is a lot better than criminalizing it. However, the reason why I take a different position on it is becuase I think we should (as a nation) have courage of our convictions with respect to freedom, and put our money where our mouth is sorta-speak. By endorsing something which some of us may not agree with on a personal level, but, at the same time is not a criminal act. You send the message to the world that we stand-by freedom above all else.


Peace,
Xicano

[pipoman]

28. You're on the losing side of this issue..

[salinen]

32. It's o.k.

I'm weird.

[Texasgal]

29. Here's my deal

I don't care what you do with YOUR body. It's YOUR choice not the government.

I choose NOT to partake, that's MY choice.

It's really all about FREEDOM.

Just my opinion.

[salinen]

34. Freedom is everything

In my messed up way, I am saying that the government should shut up, remove the punishments, free all the inmates, and forget the ballot initiative.

[RainDog]

33. so, by your argument, we should still have prohibition of alcohol

because the state "endorses" drinking by not making it illegal to produce or consume alcohol?

because the state taxes and regulates drinking and makes laws to keep it out of the hands of minors, they are encouraging minors to drink?

I don't want kids to smoke pot either. that's one reason I want to legalize it and bring some sanity back into American political life. We need to stop pretending cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol because it isn't.

I guess what I want to ask you is this - could you make the same argument for alcohol? you don't want alcohol to be legal? what's the difference?

[salinen]

40. No, alcohol is different

Alcohol is damaging to the body. Alcohol should be discouraged. Pot should be decriminalized. That is not an endorsement.

[RainDog]

46. what is your definition of decriminalization?

because it doesn't seem to match the state's definition.

if something is decriminalized, that does not mean people are free to grow it, for instance. Farmers cannot grow hemp is cannabis is not legal.

[salinen]

49. My idea of decriminalization

would be like for jaywalking. The cop warns you that you could get hurt doing it.

[RainDog]

52. For any amount?

because the problem, again, with decriminalization is that cannabis is kept under one schedule by the DEA. that means that farmers could not legally grow hemp for non-recreational uses if it's still illegal to grow something that is genetically cannabis, no matter what the THC content or intent for growing it might be.

see, the thing is, it's not just about the use of cannabis as an intoxicant.

but the laws are so screwed up in this nation that farmers in the U.S. are the only farmers in any western democracy that are not allowed to grow hemp for industrial purposes.

decriminalization would mean that farmers could be fined for growing a cash crop.

that makes no sense to me.

[salinen]

58. America has a way

of mucking up everything. The hemp as a cash crop issue is not something I've considered much. There are so many aspect to legalization. What should the warning label on the side of the marijuana box say? Should you be able to smoke on any street? Can you sell your pot to somebody? Too much for my little brain.

[RainDog]

85. yes. there is more than one aspect to legalization. it's not just about someone smoking a joint

and that is what gets lost in all the talk.

I don't know, but it would seem to me that people wouldn't want a "box" of cannabis cigarettes if they buy from someone. instead, they would want to buy by the bud and be able to pick the bud(s) they wanted - in fact, I believe this is the current model in dispensaries.

what should the warning label say? for cannabis grown for hemp - no warning label required. for cannabis grown as an intoxicant - the only known risk that I am aware of is that cannabis may pose a problem for a subset of the population that is at risk of schizophrenia - as the head of the British pharma research into cannabis recently said at a talk - this does not apply to the general population. so I suppose a warning label should say someone with a family history of schizophrenia may be at risk of developing schizophrenia - though, again, a study of all studies of schizophrenia in Great Britain for a decade when stronger cannabis was available indicated no increase in schizophrenia.

nevertheless, if someone had such a history, just as someone has a family history of alcoholism, it might be in their interests to refrain from use.

if you want to sell pot, you need to disclose the conditions under which it was grown, the strain that was grown, the THC content, the CBD content... those are things people would want to know about. Licensing. Regulation.

if you want to give away your homegrown, that's between two friends. the friend can choose or not choose to accept that gift.

In the same way, if someone wants to make his or her own wine or mead they may do so and give it to friends. If they want to sell their wine as a product, they have to be licensed and pass health inspections.

seems pretty simple to me.

[4lbs]

35. For one thing, legalizing marijuana will be like when Prohibition legalized alcohol.

There will be minimum age limits for those that consume the product.

Just like you have to be at least 21 years old to legally consume alcohol in this country, legalizing marijuana in California doesn't automatically mean that a 12 year old can suddenly light up a doobie in front of a police officer.

You'll need to be at least 21 years old to smoke weed legally when this passes.

Sellers of weed will need to be licensed and regulated, just like the ATF regulates bars, restaurants, and stores that sell alcohol.

Those that sell marijuana will pay taxes on those sales, just like when you buy alcohol.

[KansasVoter]

36. -1 because you have not thought about this much.......

Do you know how many prescriptions are written for Xanax or Valium yearly? I guess you are ok with that?? Silly logic.

[salinen]

47. That's a medical issue

decriminalize. That's all.

[KansasVoter]

48. I work in pharma......

Most of those drugs are so people can relax and feel unstressed. How is that mor medical than a lot of pot users?

And pharma makes billions from those drugs.

[salinen]

50. Woudn't you say that most people

without a script use pot to just get loaded?

[KansasVoter]

55. Maybe 1/2. But that is still a lot of people using it like Valium.

[Tsiyu]

61. Maybe you need to clarify "getting loaded"

because I don't believe I've ever gotten very "loaded" - if by that term you mean unable to function, drooling, talking nonsense - on cannabis unless it was mixed with alcohol consumption.

People who use cannabis generally do so because it relaxes the muscles, builds appetite, calms anxiety, helps calm one for sleep, reduces nightmares, flashbacks, etc., reduces muscle twitching and helps with aching bones and upset stomach. It helps reduce sensitivity to noise and activity for some users.

It does not cause a hangover, reduced inhibitions or very many side effects for most regular users, unlike Zoloft, Xanax, Oxy, Hydros....

The calm happiness - euphoria - appears to be the side effect most anti-cannabis people are in terror of. Which is funny, because I imagine most of the anti-cannabis folks as little grey old people peering out their lace curtains on the lookout for the Doobie Pusher.

"Henry, they might force us to shoot up that awful marijewanna and we'll have euphoria!"

"Now, calm down Gladys! Have a brandy for god's sake and stop staring out the window. I've never even heard of 'euphoria' and neither have you!"



Sorry. it just makes me laugh to imagine that...

[salinen]

62. mood adjustment

getting baked, stoned, high, buzzed, fucked up, zoned, chillaxed.

[Tsiyu]

69. all of these are slang words

FWIW, coffee, cigarettes, shopping and FUX news cause mood adjustment.

What exactly is the mood adjustment and why is it "bad?"

[fascisthunter]

92. why not? Some don't, some do

that should be up to the consumer, not the government. By keeping it illegal, they are taking a side. By allowing it to be sold, they are allowing the consumer to decide what is best for them... that's being neutral. We have plenty of products now that harm people... I wouldn't consider the sale of the items an endorsement.

[JNelson6563]

37. I don't know of anyone who wants to encourage kids

to smoke pot. Not sure how you came to be working from that premise. Are you high? ;-)

Julie

[salinen]

53. Maybe.

Let's say pot wins at the ballot box overwhelmingly. Kids say, wow, the adults think pot smoking is far out. But, if the state decriminalizes it, it is legal without the hoopla. I'm kinda weird.

[JonLP24]

77. It is decriminalized in California AFAIK

It really should be legal and I don't think this initiative goes far enough. I'm really not concerned about what the kids think. The legal side affects are much worse than cannabis can give you(unless you're allergic or something to it).

[hobbit709]

38. The state endorses intoxication by allowing the sale of alcohol.

And getting their cut of the money through taxing same.

[salinen]

45. Pretty clever of them

[Toucano]

39. Decriminalization does not equal "endorsement".

True, children should not be encouraged to smoke pot. Or anything else for that matter.

As you've concluded, decriminalization is the only sensible alternative.

I applaud your rational decision and hope you share it with more people.

By the way, I've only smoked a dozen or so times in my life. I'm not an advocate for marijuana use, but I am an advocate for decriminalization.

[salinen]

42. That's right

Decriminalizing does not = endorsement. Yeah.

[Toucano]

91. Decriminalization of abortion = endorsement of abortion?

Decriminalization of sodomy = endorsement of sodomy?

In 1967 the Supreme Court decriminalized interracial marriage thereby endorsing interracial marriage. That's why every couple you know is now an interracial couple: Because the government decriminalized it and therefore endorsed it.

Sorry. Human behavior doesn't work that way.

[the redcoat]

41. Letting people smoke pot is not the same as supporting pot.

People think the same about abortion. Pro-choice means people have the freedom to make the decision, it doesn't mean you support people getting abortions.


Alcohol, caffeine, cigarettes, and OTC meds are all infinitely worse for your body than weed.

[salinen]

44. Indeed.

[defendandprotect]

43. Glad you're voting for legalization .... but keep in mind when we try to

control others, even teenaged behavior re marijuana it is similar to trying to

keep them from drinking alcohol.

I'm sure you've also noticed the horrific expense of this Drug War, not only in

dollar costs, but in corruption of our government and its agencies and law enforcement --

and our courts!

We now have 7,500 troops off the coast of Costa rica and 45 battle ships monitoring

drug production/use there and their war on drugs! And, extensive plans to do the same

for other countries.


FURTHER, it is NATURE which has provided these drugs and they should be cherished

and studied, not made taboo. Though there has always been a strong drive within

patriarchy to do destroy various plants they feared -- especially those which provided

reproductive freedom for females. Not only did they try to destroy ALL of them, they

also worked to destroy information about the plants and birth control, abortion, etal.


Our populations didn't survive all this time WITHOUT Big Pharma unless they had great knowledge

of plants as our medicines. Look at China yet today! Capitalism/patriarchy are the great

destroyers!

[spanone]

51. yes you do

read your op

[salinen]

59. You caught me

O.K. now you count to 100.

[OnionPatch]

60. I don't agree that legalization is endorsement.

There are a lot of vices and ugly behaviors out there that aren't illegal and that doesn't mean the government endorses them. We need to have the freedom to make choices for ourselves, even if they turn out to be bad choices sometimes. (Not saying it would be a bad choice for everyone, of course) I don't think kids should smoke, either. It was my understanding that they won't be allowed to until they're adults, anyway, if this passes. I teach my child moderation and good sense and trust that she'll make responsible decisions about smoking pot when she's an adult.

[salinen]

63. Thanks Mom

[wildbilln864]

64. have you smoked pot before? nt

:rofl: you're high now?

[napi21]

65. Legalizing does not mean anyone, incuding the State is saying you SHOULD!

All legalization does is remove the penalties. If done right, it will remove the hugh profit the dealers are getting & force the big movers out of business much the same asin the days the mob controled liquor. I tink it will also take a lot of the profiteering out of the private pon system. I honestly can't find any reason to keep these stupid drug laws alive.

[catzies]

66. Do you live in CA? Is this about our ballot issue?

Honest question.

[saras]

67. Least harm...

It's called the 'least harm' principle, and it's quite a sensible way of dealing with complex issues. Basically the cure shouldn't be more toxic than the disease, so to speak.

As for smoking pot in school, I would have gotten better grades had I not smoked pot in school - until I killed myself, which I likely would have done, had I tried to make it through twelfth grade WITHOUT smoking pot. And the other students were only a small part of the problem - the people and institutions that were supposed to help me were much larger contributors to my misery.

I agree that anyone who decides to smoke pot based on whether others around them smoke pot probably should not be smoking it, but I don't think that's pot - I think that applies to most behavior.

[Lucian]

68. Your OP makes no sense at all.

You don't think pot should be legalized, but you do.

:wtf:

[Loudmxr]

70. It is addictive. Just look at your friends who are Dead heads.

Pot is addictive to those few who "love" pot. Really. They love pot. You pot heads know it. I love you. You are creative people that I have worked with. But you just forget things. And I have to pick up your shit. But I will vote for legalizing pot because it is the best thing to do. BTW did I say I love you?

[ProfessorGAC]

71. It's A Plant!!!!

Sheesh!
GAC

[lukasahero]

74. So are poppies.

Your point?

[ProfessorGAC]

81. Figure It Out

The plant itself is not the issue for poppies. There is extensive processing required to convert the extract to a drug.

For pot, the WHOLE thing is a plant, and it's used as a dried out plant. No extensive processing. Just picking and drying.

You're for maintaining a prohibition on a freakin' plant.

I could go for legalizing poppies. I would make it illegal to process into drugs without proper licensing. Same net effect, and no prohibition on a plant.

Somehow you choose not to see the obvious distinction. That's typical of someone with an intractable position.
GAC

[tridim]

82. Last I checked poppies are legal to grow.

Even opium poppies.

[lukasahero]

84. Holy crap - you sure make a lot of assumption based on shit you don't know anything about

FYI - I'm pro-legalization.

But don't you sound like an ass with all the assumptions you made about me just for suggesting I didn't feel your point alone was enough to support that stand.

"You're for maintaining a prohibition on a freakin' plant." - Um, no, I'm not. Never said I was.

"That's typical of someone with an intractable position." - Too bad that's not my position. I never actually stated my position.

For a "Professor", you certainly don't let a little thing like facts get in your way.

[RainDog]

83. it is legal to grow poppies in the U.S.

the California poppy is that state flower, no?

you can grow a plant in your yard that is used to make opium. even tho the govt knows it is used to make opium. it has two uses: as an ornamental flower and as a medicine/drug.

and it's legal.

cannabis has a multitude of uses - many of those in industrial applications. cannabis has been bred with a THC content of less than 1% - which means it is not an intoxicant.

but it is illegal to grow this plant that helped the U.S. to become a nation.

it makes NO sense.

[lunatica]

72. the reason I want to legalize it is because of the uses of hemp

A picture is better than a thousand words

[HopeHoops]

75. Oh yeah? Well I'm going to tell YOU a thing or two. First, um, hey, is that a bag of Doritos?

:smoke: :hippie:

[Statistical]

76. Legalization is not state sponsored encouragement.

Skydiving, race cars, scuba, swinger resorts are all legal. Not really state "sponsored".

The govt never tells you what you can do it only tells you what you CAN'T do.

Thus by your logic anything that isn't illegal is state sponsored. A Klan rally is state sponsored hate. Scientology is state sponsored lunacy. Buying $10,000 rims for your car is state sponsored wealth destruction.

Something is either illegal or legal.
Legalization simply means it isn't illegal. Period.

[L0oniX]

79. I'm for using prisons (and taxes) for real criminals ...not pot smokers.

[beforeyoureyes]

86. But you are going to vote for it - hence you do think it should be legalized

because recreational pot smokers are not criminals...

So, you are for legalization.

Glad to have you onboard.

[MattBaggins]

87. Fallacy: Legalizing is not endorsing

[asdjrocky]

88. Well, bless your heart.

You, by the way, have no idea what you are talking about.

[NYC Liberal]

89. Of course alcohol being legal is "beside the point" ... if it wasn't, it would

blow your "endorsing intoxication" argument about marijuana legalization out of the water.

[meow mix]

90. back to the 1600s for puritans

familys and people are being destroyed for oppression laws, while boozers get to do whatever they want?

oh please, get out.

and by the way your just throwing your precious children into jail upon thier 18th birthdays. good job on that too.