Where Are The Damn Jobs?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Let me preface my remarks by saying I don't blame President Obama but I can feel the pain and frustration of folks who are willing, ready, and able to work and can't find jobs remotely commensurate with their education, skills, experience and ability. This economy is in the ditch. It's dead. It doesn't have a pulse. If it was a human being it would be a good candidate for euthanasia.

After looking for several months my girlfriend found a senior accountant job that required us to move from Orlando, where I lived most of my life, to Fort Lauderdale. She worked there from June to October. The company she worked for was purchased by another company and they are moving their operations to Dallas and will use existing staff to do their accounting. My girlfriend and her four colleagues were all laid off.

She is looking diligently for a new job but when there are eleven applicants for every job in Central and South Florida the task is daunting.

I don't think we will see anything close to full employment this decade. It's lost...

[NNN0LHI]

1. In Japan and South Korea

Most of our heavy industry and that jobs that go with them are over there now.

Bet there are a lot of imported cars in you neighbors driveways aren't there?

There your jobs.

Don

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. But They Didn't Cause The Collapse* Of The Construction And Finance Sectors

But they didn't cause the collapse of the construction and finance sectors which are at the root of our problems.




*Collapse is too weak a word. Death would be a better word.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Its all linked together

I have witnessed the US auto and steel industry bring us out of several recessions. Thats not going to be the case this time. Those good paying jobs(the kind of jobs where one paycheck was enough to raise a family decently), that used to pay high withheld taxes that paid the wages of our teachers, police and other government employees are gone now.

Now a Walmart greeter is considered a good job.

Don

[madokie]

12. Some how some don't put the two together

This computer the tv on in the background all made overseas. Thats where the jobs are and the persons responsible for that is the politicians who write laws favoring moving our jobs offshore. I don't buy foreign made anything that I can find made in the states no matter the cost difference. I want to think I'm part of the solution not a part of the problem. A problem that is hurting my friends, neighbors and most of all my family. Not to mention my country.

[n2doc]

3. It is a zombie economy

[rbilancia]

4. You mean the ones we were supposed to get with ten years of tax cuts for the rich?

[WonderGrunion]

5. According to MSNBC they are here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39601924/ns/business-motley_fool/

Between 550,000 and 650,000 people are expected to land jobs on account of the holiday season, according to national outsourcing firm Challenger, Gray, and Christmas. That's significantly more than the 501,400 added last year, although it's still well below the 720,800 added in 2007, just before the recession began.

Last week, Toys "R" Us said it will hire 45,000 people to help it look after customers during the busy season. The privately held company said its hiring plan doubles its current workforce, which it needs to help man the additional 600 Toys "R" Us Express "pop-up" stores that it temporarily sets up in malls and shopping centers.

Meanwhile, Macy's is hiring 65,000 additional employees and expects better earnings in the upcoming holiday season than last year. Kohl's, the fourth largest U.S. department-store chain, plans to hire 40,000 people, or 21% more than last year. UPS said it will add 50,000 workers to deal with its sharp uptick in deliveries.

J.C. Penney's plan to hire 30,000 workers represents "a slight increase over last year," while Best Buy, said that its plans to hire 29,000 workers comes out to "about the same" as in previous years.

Hope this helps! :fistbump:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Thank You

But I think it's hard to live on $200.00 a week net pay unless you live in a developing country.

[fasttense]

Those are all minimum wage, no benefits jobs.

They don't provide enough income to support a family of 4 in the America middle class. Paying for health Insurance alone would wipe out a sales clerk job.

We need good paying jobs that manufacturing use to provide.

[Dappleganger]

54. That would hardly support one person.

That's barely enough for food and insurance, much less a place to live with if sharing expenses with someone else.

[sad sally]

86. and come Dec. 26th, they'll be gone...

[Brickbat]

51. ROFLMAO.

:rofl:

[Javaman]

77. The part timing of society.

If you have a full time job, you have time for yourself.

If you have a part time job, you have not the resources to even contemplate having time for yourself, because you are always treading water to stay afloat.

This is being done purposely. If you combine that with the moron right wing screed of doing away with minimum wage because "it only hurts the employer", you will see the slow destruction of our society.

They are doing this to lower our standards to make more money for the corporations.

Once upon a time, the mission in the world was to raise everyones standard of living. Now, it's to lower everyones standard to serf or untouchable class.

This is the ultimate long term goal of the corps.

[RedCloud]

107. I hear lawyers are needed in Hell to represent all the republicans forthcoming.

[TBF]

6. Recommended because you're absolutely correct -

no matter who is president (and you will get a bunch of unrecs too because there are certain folks who seem to go around and unrec anything that is not absolutely positive about President Obama).

Jobs would solve their problems at the polls - "it's the economy, stupid" is just as true now as it was in the Clinton years.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. The Posters Unreccommending This Must Think Jobs Are Plentiful

They can pm me where these plentiful jobs are.

[TBF]

18. Honestly I think many of them have jobs and are simply

down-playing it because of partisan politics. It really sucks because we need a WPA-style job program to get us through this financial crisis. The market is likely to crash again as they untangle the foreclosure mess (and find out there's no money there either).

On a personal level I hope your girlfriend finds something soon, maybe even seasonal work with the holidays coming up would keep some $$ coming in as she looks for something permanent.

[Dappleganger]

55. People just don't want to hear the TRUTH.

The put their hands over their ears and act like you're a whiner. They are the ones not living in reality, not you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

90. I Thought Only The Republicans Thought The Unemployed Deserved Their Fate

~

[independent_voter]

94. anyone who isnt against globalism/free trade feels that way

and that means a lot of people wearing blue

[deacon]

7. Where the gop and chamber of commerce wants to keep shipping them

--- overseas!

[B Calm]

9. Thanks to republican policies, the jobs are being outsourced!

[TBF]

20. Hello - current president is democrat with a majority in

congress. Let's see a jobs program! I agree there is an unlimited number of things that can be blamed on Republicans, but Obama was hired to fix this mess.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. Ahhhh

Again, the only fix for this economy is time and even that won't be enough.

The economy won't recover until real estate does.

[Dappleganger]

10. You may not want to hear this

but there aren't going to be in any meaningful jobs in FL for many, many years. Possibly a decade or longer. We live in NE FL and have walked the jobless trail and quite frankly there are so many more opportunities elsewhere. If I had a house or condo to sell in that area I would be heavily inclined to just cut my losses and just walk away.

:hug:

[Le Taz Hot]

39. Where are those opportunities?

I'm not being snarky here, I need to know. We're sitting in an area with a 15.2% unemployment rate. Someone upthread stated there are 11 applicants for every 1 job there. Try 200 for every one job here. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Dappleganger]

50. Where are you located and what is your background?

Most of these opportunities are in TX, IL, PA (Pittsburgh), MO, etc. My husband is in manufacturing and we were willing to move anywhere. The key is trying to find a place that is cheap to live when you get the pink slip as well as one which has better support for the unemployed. Florida FAILS every one of those tests.

The Orlando area which has been hit so hard has only minimum-wage jobs and the cost of living has only gone up (utilities/rent).

[lovelyrita]

102. I live in Central Florida.

If we had to move, we would have to walk away from our house. With all the short sales and foreclosures in our neighborhood, our house is now worth 1/4 of what we paid and owe on it. How could we sell it? Luckily, we are not behind in our payments but it does seem like a waste to throw away this money every month for a house that is worth next to nothing.

[Dappleganger]

108. Unfortunately

you may need to behave like a bank or corporation and walk away, cutting your losses. What else can one do?

[katnapped]

13. Ask the CoC!

They know!!!

[KharmaTrain]

14. +100000

[cowcommander]

15. Jobs still exist, but you're going to have to look for them elsewhere

Unfortunately, you're going to have to seriously consider moving to another state. Scour the local Craigslist listings of as many places as you can for a job opening matching the one your girlfriend needs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Before My Girlfriend Found Her Job We Looked In

L A {Where she's from)

San Diego

Orange County

Fort Lauderdale

Miami

Tampa

Orlando

Jacksonville

Tallahassee

Savannah

Atlanta

Charleston

Hilton Head

Charlotte

Raliegh

If I have to vote with my feet I vote as well vote to leave this contry. It's not particularly great anymore, anyway.

[cowcommander]

21. Is an accounting job her only option?

Unfortunately with this economy, you will have to consider getting other, lower-paying jobs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I Might As Well Go Back To The Philippines With Her Then

She's a CPA with twenty years of public and private accounting experience.

[activa8tr]

25. What is YOUR job that you can take anywhere around the world in order to

be with her.

She's not likely to find a job in accounting when there are 1000's of other CPA's with equal training and experience looking.

Again, choose where you two really want to live, and bloom where you're planted, through slow growth.

[cowcommander]

29. Where in the Philippines is she from?

I'm from there too, and that is a bit of an extreme alternative to take, it really sucks there. It's not going to be easy to live there, you just have to hang on and keep looking for a job for her while you're both already here in the U.S.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. She's From Manila

I don't want to disrepect my other DUERS but I rather live in Manila than many states in America. Americans are treated greatly there.

[cowcommander]

34. Is she from a well-to-do family and already has a home there?

It's true, you'll be treated well there. And the dollar/peso conversion rate means that you can live very well there. But it's still going to be an entirely different culture that you may have trouble adjusting with.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. As You Know The Philippines Has A Brain Drain

Her aunts and uncles are all here and they are all physicians. Her father was a civil engineer who chose to stay and build his country.

I love Filipinos.

[cowcommander]

45. Well, good luck

I hope you realize how EXTREMELY fortunate you are, very few people even have the option you have and a girlfriend understanding enough to help you out. Don't piss off her dad!

[Dappleganger]

52. As do I.

Both my primary care doctor and our pediatrician are Filipinas and we LOVE them dearly and wouldn't trade them for the world! My husband's new job is a manufacturing plant with a very large Filipino population and the atmosphere is so much more positive than at his last job. Although the pay is lower the quality of life is better and the people there won't leave because they are like a family. There's a fairly large Filipino group in the Jacksonville area and we are definitely better for it.

[activa8tr]

23. I agree, accounting jobs are on the chopping block all over the place.

Being stuck in one field in your 20's or 30's is not a successful strategy, in my opinion.

Branch out, start low, aim high and work hard. NO it's NOT going to be easy, and it's always a risk, but complaining about the lousy jobs condition in this economy isn't a strategy for success either.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. As I Told Him I Might As Well Move Back To The Philippines With Her

She's 41 and I'm 51 and we can't move back in with our parents, they are dead, can't live on a KFC salary, we need a roof over our head and transportation, and luxuries like food.



P.S. She's not an ordinary account. She's an extraordinary account. She worked for the real estate investment firm that owns the Kodak Theater where the Academy Award Show is and where Obama and Hillary had their CA debate. Out of two hundred employees she got the biggest bonus.

It's just frustrating.

[GoCubsGo]

46. What y'all don't seem to understand...

One can't just "branch out". It doesn't matter how low you aim. The job market is such that if you don't have the EXACT qualifications they're looking for, they won't hire you, no matter your experience and education. That includes entry-level jobs. They're not going to go for the one with less experience who is looking to "branch out", when there are a hundred others (often way more) who fit their desired qualifications far better. Been there, done that with no success, whatsoever. Furthermore, the prospective employers don't want to take a chance on hiring and re-training someone, fearing they'll bolt the second something better comes their way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. Branch Out

My girlfriend is 41 and I'm 51. We can't reinvent ourselves. Maybe I should say in my best Jethro Bodiene voice "I'm going to be a brain surgeon."

[a la izquierda]

26. There's work in Oklahoma.

Seriously. You have to take the bad (political horrorshow) with the good (low cost of living, decent jobs). If it weren't for the fact that I work in academia, and am on the market, we'd be staying right here. My husband loves his job (he manages a doggie daycare/boarding facility-yes, people still have money for that here).
I know that's not helpful if you want to stay in Florida, though.

[Kalyke]

38. And go where?

I don't know of any other country where you can easily immigrate. I would love to move my family to Ireland or Britain, but you have to have a job there - and they don't necessarily give their jobs to Americans unless you can get on with an American multinational and get sponsored for citizenship.

:(

[ecstatic]

96. This is true too. Almost everyone I know who graduated from college

has had to move to another state to get employment.

[fasttense]

104. Sounds like you are describing a migrant worker.

So, you move to PA and work for 6 months and the job goes away. Then you move to North Dakota and work for 3 months and the job goes away. You then move to California to pick grapes and the police meet you at the border. Welcome back to the Grapes of Wrath.

[Dappleganger]

109. +1000000

[stray cat]

19. North Dakota has low unemployment and jobs

[Catherina]

24. I feel your pain. Best of luck to both of you.

I don't know what else to say because I don't see things changing anytime soon.

Rec'd. It's no good unreccing and trying to hide this kind of stuff as if everything were just hunky dory.

[GoCubsGo]

47. Me, too.

Most of the jobs in my field are with government. Unfortunately, state, local, and the federal government are shedding jobs, not hiring. And, if the repugs get in power and have their way, even more jobs are going to go away. It's sickening.

[Kalyke]

28. The Homelanders, Teabaggers, USCOC and anti-Labor supporters

have moved all the jobs to the Red States. Granted, they are low-paying since there are no unions, but, then again, our cost of living is cheaper, too. For example, a $300,000 home in Florida probably costs about $100,000 here and so on.

But, that gives me a good idea.

Why don't all you Democrats move to the Red States! In my state, between 42 and 48 percent of us vote Democratic in any given election. If we had a healthy influx of Democratic voters moving in from Florida, Pennsylvania, California, etc., that could move the bar up past 50 percent, making Tennessee shift from the brink of disaster on the path it is currently heading and turn back into the blue state it was!

[GoCubsGo]

40. That may be true for your state, but not elsewhere

I'm in South Carolina. No jobs moved here. The unemployment rate is well over 10%. We've had an influx of retirees from the Northeast over the years, thanks to our cheap cost of living. It hasn't made us any more Democratic. All those people from the "Blue States" are going to help elect a teabagger for Governor, and stick us with another six years of having Jim DeMented for our Senator.

[Kalyke]

82. Those retirees haven't been Democrats since they were 25.

I'm talking about working people. Sadly, many retirees are old, white and becoming more conservative as they watch Faux News for hours on end (and I'm not including our wonderful retirees on DU! DU retirees are much too informed to go over to the dark side!).

Working people in the blue states do vote blue. They don't come down South to take advantage of our low taxes (while simultaneously sucking up all the low taxes on their Medicare and Social Security - that they claim not to believe in. :eyes: ) and burn up all our social services in the process.

[raccoon]

42. I second that emotion! How about yall Democrats move to SC? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. I Like Charleston And Hilton Head

Hook me up.

[Kalyke]

85. Anyone like the mountains?

I live in East Tennessee and we badly need some Democrats!

Here's what we look like right now! Pretty, "ain't" it. :hi:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

101. I Like Nashville

~

[bvar22]

59. Interesting.

We moved from Deep Blue Minneapolis to a very RED part of the rural South.
Minneapolis doesn't miss our vote, but it weighs much more here (% of population).

bvar22 & Starkraven,
helping to turn The South Blue!

The climate is milder,
the growing season longer,
cost of living lower,
clean water is plentiful.

The South is beautiful, and belongs to everybody.
Shame to let the conservatives have it.

[dkf]

30. Well the banks should have been hiring more people who have a brain

to do foreclosures properly but instead they make one person lie about 10,000 loans a month.

I wonder if this is how everything is being understaffed.

[Saturday]

31. My college graduate child is driving a bus.....

and thrilled to have a job. When he applies for jobs he gets no replies. Over the last year he has applied for hundreds of jobs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. My Friend Is 54

He has a graduate degree. He has run successful businesses. He was a personal aide to a mayor of a large southeastern city. He's moving back in with his mom.

As an aside. My backround is similar to my friend. Driving a bus to me sounds like a good gig . It beats owning a business that only exists on paper.

[raccoon]

43. While I sympathize with your friend, he's fortunate he has a living parent to move in with. nt

[fasttense]

37. I recommend farming.

My husband got laid off (his job was moved to India) and he was considering getting his teaching certificate. He had looked for over a year and could find absolutely no employment, even at half the salary he use to get. We had saved just enough money for him to get his masters and teaching certificate. But then we read the headlines about how our state was laying off teachers.

So, we decided instead to farm the land we had. We sell to a small clientele who are looking for naturally grown, local, unique produce like cilantro, edamame, asparagus, annual artichokes, baby salad greens, and farm raised eggs. It's not a lot of money and we are expanding our business to include a very large greenhouse for winter produce. But it has seriously cut our grocery bills and we decide what our hours and work schedule.

If you have some money to invest, buy a small house with some land. You don't really need a 100 acres. Even 5 acres will work. If you recycle animal waste into compost you have a rich soil amendment and you can raise a lot of produce if you keep your soil well fertilized.

Even if you find there is a very small market for your produce, you can feed yourself and seriously cut into that grocery bill. Even if food prices go through the roof, you can eat like kings.

[TBF]

44. My family farmed - and it was very difficult when the factory

farming hit. My mom's farm is nearly sold off now, but her uncle's farm is still profitable because he sold off most his land and kept the remaining for a "boutique" as I call it - strawberries and pumpkins. Like your produce farm, he caters to the folks who come in to pick their own, and does the whole pumpkin patch thing in the fall. He is making a good living off it now.

Maybe more folks will start doing this, and I'll certainly buy from them. I don't mind other imports so much (except for all the plastic crap nobody needs at Walmart), but locally grown healthy food is imperative.

[Tsiyu]

57. Like TBC(?) below said, small boutique farms

as well as larger ones can get state and federal help with marketing, etc.

Agri-tourism is growing. My eggs and produce feed me and friends a little. Wish I had a farming partner! You are lucky.

The playing field has changed, it seems forever. I am working three jobs and am still barely hanging on.

[WinkyDink]

41. Not here? Ever since we stopped manufacturing---and entered an anti-union stage---the present was

inevitable.

[BlueGirlRedState]

49. Laid off four months ago

I realize I'm better off than others -- I have another two months of unemployment benefits. My husband has a job. But job hunting is so depressing. We moved from for his job two years ago. I left a company I had worked for 13 years, making $60K. Best I could do here was $35K. Laid off from there and I'm looking at wages of $10 to $12 a hour but I can't even get those. They see my resume and won't hire me. Even though we have a low mortgage and one small car payment, we're behind in bills due to my daughter's appendectomy 2009 and my broken wrist surgery in 2010. And yes, we have insurance. We're looking at borrowing money on our house.

[independent_voter]

56. India - the destruction of jobs is deliberate, and both parties are in on it

flame me for saying that, but it's true

the h-1b/outsourcing labor model has begun it's creep outside tech into other white collar fields, such as accounting and legal

tech was just the beginning, India's outsourcing ambition is to take the bulk of all USA white collar corporate work, Princeton economis and former fed reserve board member alan blinder says thats 30-40 million jobs

and both parties created this monster

Friday, February 23, 2007
Alan Blinder: 29% of US Jobs are "Offshorable"

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/02/alan-blinder-29-of-us-jobs-are.html

[independent_voter]

62. Bottom line is, there's NOWHERE to hide from the globalism/free trade process that's been unleashed

on the working and middle classes

maybe people here and there finding niches to hide in for a little while, but the bulk of people wont, the numbers dont allow it

i always love when people say 'my job is safe, it cant be outsourced'

they can bring someone from oversees and force you to train them to get your severence

happens in tech every single day for the last 12 years

[Dappleganger]

110. Great post...

and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Barack_America]

58. Florida's a mess.

My mother just abandoned ship there after looking for employment for well over a year.

[nunyabidness]

60. The previous economic climate was great for accountants, now not so good. People need to retrain.

There`s not too much call for chariot repair technicians anymore. Point is, if you can`t get a job in the field you are trained in, time to learn a new trade. (I would suggest something in technology.) Too many people spent too much time putting on lugnts for fifty bucks an hour and not saving their money.(Needed that plasma TV, did`nt ya?) Now they`re screwed because that cushy job dried up and they did`nt have a "Plan B". And of coarse it is`nt Pres. Obamas fault. I have a acquaintance in the plumbing trade. He is a miserable poop who complains about everything on the jobsite and how every employer owes him this or that. He is slow and not very skilled. He will be the LAST one pulled from the hall. But of coarse it`s President Obamas fault he does`nt work alot.(yes, this guy is a Repub)

I`m sure that most of the people that immigrated over earlier in the last century from Europe to work in the steel mills were steel mill workers in Europe. I`ll bet they had other vocations.

[independent_voter]

61. 'time to learn a new trade. (I would suggest something in technology.) ' -> LOL!!!!

have you been watching what happened to tech for the last 10 years?

H-1b visa and outsourcing have destroyed it

anyone who took the advice you gave 5 -10 years ago, is now asking 'retrain - for WHAT?!?'

[Bigmack]

69. Wrong... wrong.... wrong...

"Learn a new trade"..? What new trade? Everybody is being laid off... teachers, nurses, whoever. Do you have any idea how long it takes to "learn a new trade"? What do people survive on in the meanwhile? And who is to say there will be openings when they graduate.

If you research a bit instead of using common sense.. whatever the hell that is... you'll find that people are in bankruptcies because of two causes: medical emergencies, and unemployment. Overspending is seldom a biggie.

Saving? You have to be kidding. Have you seen a graph of what has happened to real wages for the middle class recently? Level, or downtrending, wages do not make for savings.

Of "coarse" (spellcheck is your friend) it's Pres. Obama's fault. He should have used his political capital early on to build a WPA-type jobs Corps, but he didn't. He also didn't offshore large numbers of jobs. The traitorous corporations did that. (Traitor: a person who betrays his country.)

Your plumber buddy... I'm gonna dismiss him as an anecdote. If he exists. Another lazy union member story.

My European ancestors came to this country - all four grandparents sneaked in, actually - with zero skills other than, as they put it, "trotting the bogs". They arrived at a time of unparalleled growth. They were needed to build the Empire. In our declining Empire, the jobs just ain't there.

Name me a field that's hiring that provides any reasonable rate of pay. College - considering student loan debt - isn't the big step up it used to be.

Sooooo..... I disagree with everything you posted.

[The Uncola]

63. At age 57, I honestly fear that..

.. I may never find employment again. I not only can't find a job, I don't even get an acknowledgment that I've applied, let alone an interview. Unemployment Benefits ran out in February, life savings all but gone, 401k cashed in and spent on bills and surviving, bills piling up, cost of living going up...

And no one in DC seems to give a rat's ass, be they Dems or Repukes, All they care about is keeping their own jobs.

Meh.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. The other poster said you can re-train.

Have you thought about neurosurgery?

Some people in this thread have lost their minds.

[The Uncola]

97. Or perhaps ...

... I should go to law school and become a politician, they don't seem to be hurting for cash.

..or maybe a mercenary...

... or even Galactic Overlord!

Thanks for the smile.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

98. In My Best Jethro Bodiene Voice "I Think I'm Going To Become A Rocket Scientist"

~

[emulatorloo]

64. Republicans have blocked every job creating/anti-outsourcing bill that has come up

Their game has been keep the economy bad, keep unemployment high so they can win the election.

[independent_voter]

68. it's not just republicans

recognise the person sitting in the chair?

(hint, she 'represents our interests' to India)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOW0cUaGWZU

[Soral]

65. As a recruiter, I can tell you the jobs are out there, but....

There are some major problems.

I deal mostly with NYC tri-state area... skilled jobs, tech, management, financial, etc...

There are TONS of jobs........ but they are all dominated with imported workers.

INSOURCING IS A HUGE PROBLEM that is never addressed.

Of course it goes back to education too, but how does an american compete with a "slave worker" from India willing to work for next to nothing?

Problem needs to be addressed ASAP before we lose the technology sector completely in America.

[independent_voter]

67. this has been my number one issue for over 10 years

and the democrats have turned a blind eye to it

tech should be the part of the job market that holds it up

instead, due to what you're talking about, tech drags the job market down, as ex tech workers, shed by this process, look for work in other fields

[kentuck]

70. Microsoft, Dell, ATT, and the tech companies are biggest culprit...

in taking jobs overseas. This was going to be the future of American jobs and they sold us out for greed.

[independent_voter]

71. they're the biggest culprit, but it's in every IT department in the USA nt

[kentuck]

72. How so?

explain.

[independent_voter]

74. I'm saying that while the tech industry has spearheaded this process

that H-1bs from Indian body shops flood the job market for information tech EVERYWHERE in every industry

[Soral]

75. It goes like this...

Company XYZ says "we need a computer programmer" We will pay $80/hr for the person.

I send them a rather skilled American at the rate they are looking for with the skills they want...

An agency that holds an immigrant workers H1B visa says "Hey XYZ, I have this guy who is just as skilled, and will work for half the money"

Then... said agency keeps half that money, and the immigrant worker gets 1/4 what the company is paying for their services.

If the worker doesn't like it... the agency takes their H1B away, and they are SOL, back to India.

[independent_voter]

76. ever since IRS rule 1706, tech was been designed as a pimp profession

where the bulk of the money goes to the pimp, instead of those who actually do the work, even when they're citizens

this article explains it very well - it will blow your mind who the author is (very well known) - last person you'd ever expect

Where Are The Jobs Going?

June 4, 2003

The big argument for the tax cut Congress just passed is that it will create much-needed jobs. But one big question remains: will those jobs be created for Americans, or will corporations simply hire more job-seekers from India and China?
It's time for Congress to call a halt to the scandal of the way big corporations hire foreigners at the same time they are laying off their American employees. The hiring of hundreds of thousands of foreigners is why the New York Times proclaimed on its front page the bad news that this year's "Graduates Are Lowering Their Sights in Today's Stagnant Job Market."

Remember how, when U.S. corporations built hundreds of plants in Third World countries, we were told not to worry about losing blue- collar manufacturing jobs because we were keeping the service jobs? Well, now the high-paying white-collar service jobs are going overseas, too, particularly jobs for engineers and computer specialists.

Follow the money. The big corporations hire Indians and Chinese for less than half the wages, work them long hours without overtime pay, and treat them like indentured servants unable to quit for a better job. The corporations partner with the U.S. government by making political contributions to assure the passage of legislation that legalizes the importation of foreign cheap labor.

This racket started when Section 1706 was slipped into the Tax Reform Act of 1986. This uniquely discriminatory section required anyone who is an "engineer, designer, computer programmer, systems analyst or other similarly skilled worker" to be classified by Internal Revenue as an employee rather than as an independent contractor, which hundreds of thousands were at that time.

This change in the law plus aggressive IRS enforcement resulted in the creation of large consulting or contracting firms that hire such persons as their own employees and then contract to sell computer services to big corporations. These "gatekeeper" firms and computer corporations soon began to exploit H-1B and L-1 visas by employing foreigners while dumping American engineers and programmers out on the street.

H-1B visas were created in 1990 to allow corporations to import up to 65,000 foreign skilled workers to fill alleged labor shortages, a claim that was always a fiction and now is nonsense. L-1 visas were created to allow inter-office transfers of key managers, executives or persons with specialized knowledge, but there are no numerical limits and no safeguards against abuse.

The corporations had such clout with the politicians that they got the number of allowable H-1B visas increased in 2000 to 195,000 (even while the industry was hiring only 2 percent of software applicants). In a striking example of stealth politics, on October 3, 2000, the House leadership announced there would be no further votes that evening, and then passed the H-1B increase, after most Members had departed, by a voice vote with only about 40 out of 435 Members present.

Republican Congressional Campaign Committee Chairman Rep. Tom Davis (R-VA) candidly commented, "This is not a popular bill with the public.... This is a very important issue for the high-tech executives who give the money." Senator Robert Bennett (R-UT) admitted, "There were, in fact, a whole lot of folks against it, but because they are tapping the high-tech community for campaign contributions, they don't want to admit that in public."

By 2001, corporations and contracting firms were employing at least 384,191 H-1Bers without any demonstration of a labor shortage, plus at least 328,480 L-1ers masquerading as "intracompany transferees." In a bitter postscript to the careers of laid-off Americans, they were often required to train their foreign cheap-labor substitutes.

The NBC station in Hartford exposed why Connecticut now has 20,000 white-collar unemployed computer service workers but 70,253 employed aliens. The giant insurance company Cigna fired its local workers, turned its technology jobs over to the Indian firm, Satyam, under a "closed-loop process providing Satyam with the right of first refusal for all consultants requests."

This Cigna agreement denies U.S. citizens even the chance to compete. Where are the conservatives who argued for years against the closed union shop?

The Siemens company in Florida contracted to have its U.S. employees replaced by foreigners brought in by Tata Consultancy Services, one of India's largest consulting firms. When Tata used L-1 visas to bring in Indians at one third the salary of the Americans laid off, the Siemens spokesman shrugged off complaints saying, "They don't work for us. They work for Tata."

What to do? Congress should (1) reject all attempts to extend the current high number of H-1B visas and allow the limit to revert to 65,000; (2) require employers to show a good-faith effort to hire Americans before applying for visas; (3) require employers to lay off non-citizens before laying off U.S. citizens; (4) restrict L-1 visas to jobs paying $100,000 a year and prohibit transfers between companies; and (5) forbid government agencies from hiring non-citizens or from contracting with outside firms that hire non-citizens.

[Soral]

79. Who wrote it? Also..

This is 7 years old, and is SO much worse then it was then.

/I'm in CT.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Soral]

88. sorry, was on lunch, YES

It is totally accurate.

I mean, the H1B problem, combined with "vendor management systems" have made it almost impossible to even apply for some jobs because it is such a process.

I am sure you have all seen it "fill out these 10 pages for the next 3 hours, with your background since elementary school, and then maybe some one will get back to you"

[independent_voter]

92. were you surprised by

who wrote it?

[independent_voter]

81. ....

[blindpig]

66. WPA! WPA! WPA!

It ain't so hard to figure out, must be something else.....

k&r

[asdjrocky]

73. One out of 10 of my male neighbors are now working.

Let me repeat that, one in TEN! Now, I know I live in a very poor neighborhood, in a very poor city, but what do you call it when 90% of the men in my neighborhood have either given up, or keep looking but can't find work?

[independent_voter]

78. 'Where Are The Jobs Going? ' written in 2003 sums it up

Where Are The Jobs Going?


June 4, 2003

The big argument for the tax cut Congress just passed is that it will create much-needed jobs. But one big question remains: will those jobs be created for Americans, or will corporations simply hire more job-seekers from India and China?
It's time for Congress to call a halt to the scandal of the way big corporations hire foreigners at the same time they are laying off their American employees. The hiring of hundreds of thousands of foreigners is why the New York Times proclaimed on its front page the bad news that this year's "Graduates Are Lowering Their Sights in Today's Stagnant Job Market."

Remember how, when U.S. corporations built hundreds of plants in Third World countries, we were told not to worry about losing blue- collar manufacturing jobs because we were keeping the service jobs? Well, now the high-paying white-collar service jobs are going overseas, too, particularly jobs for engineers and computer specialists.

Follow the money. The big corporations hire Indians and Chinese for less than half the wages, work them long hours without overtime pay, and treat them like indentured servants unable to quit for a better job. The corporations partner with the U.S. government by making political contributions to assure the passage of legislation that legalizes the importation of foreign cheap labor.

This racket started when Section 1706 was slipped into the Tax Reform Act of 1986. This uniquely discriminatory section required anyone who is an "engineer, designer, computer programmer, systems analyst or other similarly skilled worker" to be classified by Internal Revenue as an employee rather than as an independent contractor, which hundreds of thousands were at that time.

This change in the law plus aggressive IRS enforcement resulted in the creation of large consulting or contracting firms that hire such persons as their own employees and then contract to sell computer services to big corporations. These "gatekeeper" firms and computer corporations soon began to exploit H-1B and L-1 visas by employing foreigners while dumping American engineers and programmers out on the street.

H-1B visas were created in 1990 to allow corporations to import up to 65,000 foreign skilled workers to fill alleged labor shortages, a claim that was always a fiction and now is nonsense. L-1 visas were created to allow inter-office transfers of key managers, executives or persons with specialized knowledge, but there are no numerical limits and no safeguards against abuse.

The corporations had such clout with the politicians that they got the number of allowable H-1B visas increased in 2000 to 195,000 (even while the industry was hiring only 2 percent of software applicants). In a striking example of stealth politics, on October 3, 2000, the House leadership announced there would be no further votes that evening, and then passed the H-1B increase, after most Members had departed, by a voice vote with only about 40 out of 435 Members present.

Republican Congressional Campaign Committee Chairman Rep. Tom Davis (R-VA) candidly commented, "This is not a popular bill with the public.... This is a very important issue for the high-tech executives who give the money." Senator Robert Bennett (R-UT) admitted, "There were, in fact, a whole lot of folks against it, but because they are tapping the high-tech community for campaign contributions, they don't want to admit that in public."

By 2001, corporations and contracting firms were employing at least 384,191 H-1Bers without any demonstration of a labor shortage, plus at least 328,480 L-1ers masquerading as "intracompany transferees." In a bitter postscript to the careers of laid-off Americans, they were often required to train their foreign cheap-labor substitutes.

The NBC station in Hartford exposed why Connecticut now has 20,000 white-collar unemployed computer service workers but 70,253 employed aliens. The giant insurance company Cigna fired its local workers, turned its technology jobs over to the Indian firm, Satyam, under a "closed-loop process providing Satyam with the right of first refusal for all consultants requests."

This Cigna agreement denies U.S. citizens even the chance to compete. Where are the conservatives who argued for years against the closed union shop?

The Siemens company in Florida contracted to have its U.S. employees replaced by foreigners brought in by Tata Consultancy Services, one of India's largest consulting firms. When Tata used L-1 visas to bring in Indians at one third the salary of the Americans laid off, the Siemens spokesman shrugged off complaints saying, "They don't work for us. They work for Tata."

What to do? Congress should (1) reject all attempts to extend the current high number of H-1B visas and allow the limit to revert to 65,000; (2) require employers to show a good-faith effort to hire Americans before applying for visas; (3) require employers to lay off non-citizens before laying off U.S. citizens; (4) restrict L-1 visas to jobs paying $100,000 a year and prohibit transfers between companies; and (5) forbid government agencies from hiring non-citizens or from contracting with outside firms that hire non-citizens.

(you'll never believe who wrote this incredibly accurate article)

[astral]

83. Thank you. This is the first time I have bothered to "REC" a thread.

I am very leery, if not fearful, of what this country is facing. Without certain obligations to be where I am for awhile I would head for "Any Country But Here," of course hopefully doing some research on where's the best play to run to before I go. And I may have nothing to take with me, and it may be bad to try to start over anywhere else at my age, but I know it would be the right thing to do at this point, if I can.

"Abandoning Ship" when your country needs you? Well, my country doesn't seem to need me or alot of the rest of us. There might be a way to turn things around but we can't have it all. And I'm sorry, but the tying in of the entire western hemisphere in to a North American Union is only going to make us sink faster with all the jobs going out the window.

I am still working, up to my neck in debt, and nothing to fall back on. I should probably be afraid, but well, there is going to be an awful lot of us in the same boat and I hope we can help each other make the best of it.

[uponit7771]

84. Technically it's in production numbers right now, squeezing those who are working to death

[Hannah Bell]

87. 18 months of over 9% unemployment: a post-Depression record.

[TheKentuckian]

89. and not a single month when we have even created enough jobs to keep up with population

in even longer.

The unemployment number is a complete figment at this point. Only fudging can explain the stability of the number while accounting for years of hemorrhaging.

As dire as the situation is officially, we are embracing a set of half truths and outright machinations to even pretend things are as rosey as is pretended by the powerbrokers and the corporate media.

[otohara]

91. India, Kingdom of Bahrain

just look at the US Chamber of Commerce donor list...

[ecstatic]

95. I think certain jobs will NEVER come back

and it's time for people to shift to the jobs that are secure/not at risk for being outsourced (or in-sourced with illegal labor).

[JoeyT]

99. Yeah, won't it be awesome when we can all flip burgers for a living.

Or we could stop with the stupid "free trade" crap and seriously punish companies for outsourcing through taxation. Unfortunately the current crop have no desire whatsoever to slack off on free trade or to annoy corporations. So I guess we'll all be learning how to work the fry machine.

Funny thing is that's the exact argument that was given to blue collar workers when they griped about the blue collar jobs leaving the country. "Train in tech and computers and maintenance and engineering! Those will never be outsourced!". Yep. That worked real well. So what jobs aren't being insourced or outsourced? I certainly can't think of any.

[eilen]

105. What jobs are those? nt

[B Calm]

100. God Bless the US Trucker hauling loads of foreign made junk. . .

[ipaint]

103. It's a hell of a lot worse than they've been telling you, if that's possible.

"Unemployment for the year ending March 2010 was worse than previously stated, the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced Friday as part of its monthly jobs report. There were 366,000 more Americans who lost their jobs than previously counted. But those depressing numbers, or something close to them, won't be officially added to the final official count until the January 2011 monthly jobs report is released in February."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/10/9/908937/-Job-losses-much-worse-than-estimated

TPTB have a hundred different ways to fudge numbers and spin lies. High unemployment is now considered the new norm by those with good jobs. All they have to do is wait out the demise of the boomer generation, the majority of whom do not have enough or any retirement savings, and then they can continue to exploit a smaller, enslaved and ignorant population with no memory of the days when it wasn't this way.

[Fla Dem]

106. Outsourced and positions here are not being filled so corporations can inflate their profits.

Add to this the high unemployment rate which results in lower consumer spending. There is no demand for corporations to increase output, thus no need to hire. Vicious cycle. I also truly believe, many corproations are holding back filling positions until afte the elections. They need the unemployment to continue to look bad so Rethugs will get elected. One other thought. When I worked in a major corporation, there was generally a freeze on hiring in the last quarter whether we needed to fill positions or not. This was to ensure we came in at or below annual budgets.