What is progressive about Obama?

[mmonk]

This is a serious question. What I have come up with is he wants the richest Americans to go back to a higher tax rate. Beyond that, I run into difficulty. That is why I'm asking for a list or examples. Do your best in showing me. Thanks in advance.

[Jamastiene]

1. His shift to the right.

I couldn't think of anything for any of the other definitions of the word. But for this definition:
2. Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/progressive

his shift to the right fits perfectly.

[Occulus]

2. Ba-dah-tsss n/t

[mmonk]

4. Progressively to the right?

Wouldn't that be regressively? Or is going to the right progressing and progressing towards what?

[Jamastiene]

7. Not that kind of progressive.

Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments
at this site:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/progressive

or
4 a : increasing in extent or severity
from this site:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/progressive

or
2. continuing by successive steps: a progressive decline
http://www.yourdictionary.com/progressive

In other words, I could not find any examples in the political definitions of the word.

[Greyhound]

3. This, I gotta see...

:popcorn:
:kick: & R

[mmonk]

5. That is why I asked.

I'm trying to make an analysis but I'm having trouble. So I'm looking for help.

[Jamastiene]

8. I'm waiting to see some blue links.

We gotta know they are coming.

[KharmaTrain]

6. Intent Vs. Results...

While the President has the "bully pulpit" to push his/her agenda and legislation, it still requires a cooperative legislative to make them happen. No President in my lifetime has faced such an organized opposition as this one. From the moment he took office he automatically had 40 votes against any major plans as well as some in his own party who saw more personal gain (financially and ego-wise) in playing "power broker".

To your question, my answer is "we'll never know". I don't think the HIR is what this administration envisioned when it began. I do think that Public Option was viable until Baucus started cutting his deals...thus one would have to say that this was a Progressive step (the House did pass it...the White House supported it as well). Thanks to the obstructionism of the GOTB, the bill became a marathon...compromises turned into "doing whatever it takes to get it passed" leaving the rushpublicans with all their talking points intact and pissing off those on the other side for not being enough. The same could be said about financial regulation that was poisoned by Dodd and others...the Administration took the best deal it could. It's called politics as the art of the possible.

In 2007 I saw a debate with all the candidates at Yearly Kos...and got a great measure of who were the Progressives and who weren't. President Obama wasn't on that list. He was and has been centrist...pragmatic if you will...as was Hillary Clinton. However in our skewed body politic, being a centrist is either too far left for the right and too far right for the left. Thus the administration gets hammered from both sides and I expect it to get even worse.

Trying to gague where this President and administration stand also has to take into account circumstances beyond their control. All the promises from the '08 campaign went poof when the economy went south. Remember, on inauguration day this country was bleeding 800,000 jobs a month and the economy was in free-fall...this has had a profound effect on the priorities of this administrations reactions and agenda.

To those who thought President Obama was some Progressive hero ala a T. Roosevelt, Battlin' Bob LaFollette or even FD Roosevelt were sure to be let down...and have been. The poisoned political waters make it impossible to do much and it will only get worse if the GOTB is allowed back into power. But so be it...

[The Uncola]

10. I don't think the gent asked..

.. for yet another list of excuses why Obama hasn't gotten things done. In fact, he was quite clear as to the information he was looking for, his question was simple, it was:

"What is progressive about Obama?"

It is a good question and a fair one. I, as a Progressive would also be VERY interested in hearing a legitimate answer to a very pertinent question, instead of another lecture about how much "worse" the "other guys" are.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Excuses? Try Reality

I gave an answer...and that is "we'll never know". Amazing how people here who railed against the "unitary exective" are expecting it of this administration. Just as much as there are "Obama appologists" there are those who say "why isn't Obama like boooosh"...as if he has omipotent powers. Or that he campaigned as a Progressive...he didn't. John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich did. To those who thought he was going to be a new age Roosevelt or whatever Progressive icon you choose didn't pay attention during the '08 campaign and it's no surprised they're let down. All you had to do was look at the people who were working on his campaign. It wasn't a hidden secret.

The massive recession that hit this country and administration at the outset wasn't an excuse, it's a reality...a very hard one on millions. I can go into my own list of disappointments from this administration...not far enough or aggressive enough but I also saw that the votes weren't there, the corruption and special interest money is so entrenched in the legislative it makes moving any progressive legislation all but impossible. And how is President Obama to fix this? By fiat?

Ingore reality at your own frustration...

[mmonk]

14. I'm actually asking what does the Obama administration

propose, not what is achievable or what is not through sausage making. I'm asking what is its core principles, agendas and beliefs.

[The Uncola]

18. So, again...

.. your "answer," is a nonanswer. Save your filibuster for one of your friends that are sans a spine, it doesn't work on those of us that are actually paying attention.

[KharmaTrain]

22. And Your Answer???

Ad Hominem attack? Sure serves to kill a discussion doesn't it.

Go ahead...sorry to interupt the pity party.

Cheers...

[The Uncola]

23. What utter..

...HORSESHIT. I agreed with the OP that he asked was an important and legitimate question, nothing more. Ad Hominem attack, my ass. Just because you don't like the question AND can't give a honest answer, sure as fuck doesn't give you cause to attack me. Buzz off, you are ignored.

[KharmaTrain]

26. I'm Impressed...

:rofl:

Sorry I couldn't give you the answers you wanted.

I'm utterly devestated I tell ya :rofl:

[BzaDem]

39. The issue isn't with people who "sans a spine." It is with totally ignorant people who believe the

filibuster doesn't exist, or that it could be overcome by "making them talk forever" (as if we were in a fantasy universe, where there were actually a Senate rule that allowed the majority to do that).

So to the extent you are "paying attention," you are paying attention to something that isn't reality and has no resemblance to reality.

(This assumes that you are actually paying attention to something. I'm charitably assuming you saying you are paying attention actually implies you are paying attention.)

[The Uncola]

42. Blah, blah, blah..

.. yet the Regressives always manage to push through their agenda with MUCH smaller majorities. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

[Tesha]

11. Every Democratic President automatically has "n" votes against him.

Where, depending in the issue, N ranges from 30 to 60 or more.

Yet other Democratic Presidents have made progress. Obama
simply folded his cards, played the Republican hand, and told
us it was good for us.

There's nothing of any major import about Obama that's
"Progressive" in the way the OP meant it.

Tesha

[Cal33]

31. I think your reply is quite reasonable. I hope it will be appealing enough to

those who are still angry at Obama, among whom I was also one. Even
as a centrist, Obama is facing an incredibly difficult mountain to climb!

[mmonk]

41. A reasonable answer to a different question about what can be

accomplished. But people are missing my question and not answering it. I wanted to know what is progressive about Obama. I'm not asking what progressive things have been accomplished or not and their cause. My question isn't a statement either. I'm looking for a list of proposals or positions that establish a progressive agenda or position. Insurance reform was one (though I question its progressiveness) that is establishing change forward. I see a progressive taxation on higher income. But I'm having difficulty in establishing more than that so I'm asking for help, Before I write something, I like to have everything lined up. I was going to write something about the perspectives of an enthusiasm gap and what may be real or not in the coming election. America seems to operate more on perspectives and the coloring of positions people take due to national framing.

[Scuba]

9. Here's is record, with appropriate citations, all in one place...

http://obamaachievements.org/list

[mmonk]

12. Thanks. This should be interesting.

Education, transparency and accountability,labor,foreign affairs and international relations are on that list. Those are particular areas I have to see and ponder from my point of view. This list is called achievements but I am looking for progressive achievements that can fit the definition of progressive as it's historically viewed. I will see if they fit.

[Radical Activist]

51. I can't believe anyone who would ask this question is paying attention.

Obama passed or proposed new regulation on every aspect of the economy. No President has done that in at least 40 years.

[stray cat]

15. What concretely does he have to achieve for him to be your "real progressive"

It sounds like you have some concrete perhaps unique standards. Kind of like tea par tiers demanding Obama is not areal American

[mmonk]

24. It's a straight up question.

Can you answer it with an answer and not a question? Comparing people who disdain the tea party movement with it is weak. I know I wasn't expecting charter schools as the solution to public schools. I was expecting transparency. I was expecting pushing for a public option. I wasn't expecting an Obama DOJ to argue the same things in court as the Bush administration. There are a few other surprises I wasn't expecting. It isn't that I have some sort of concrete immovable standard. It is I have this question and it is genuine and without malice.

[stray cat]

16. What is American about Obama? Tea party version

[jgraz]

17. Point?

:shrug:

[denem]

19. Nothing. There's plenty liberal about Obama, but not progressive.

[blindpig]

20. What's the difference?

n/t

[TheKentuckian]

21. Liberal in the gilded ages economic vernacular

[democracy1st]

38. Can you explain what you meant ?

[bigtree]

25. If you define progressivism from a static, arbitrary position you can discount the change

But if you measure the progress of this administration against the present state and position of our political system, we can certainly see the outlines and vestiges of positive change from the damage done by the last bunch in power - that change encouraged and enabled by this Democratic WH.

Of course, there's a mountain of things yet to be accomplished. That won't be a straight line to success. There are still the same republican obstacles and the same political equations which affect the implementation of any progressive aspirations. The President may well be as progressive as we like, but he's not going to be able to effectively establish all of that into action or law unilaterally.

That's the political equation that Mr. Obama is so responsive to. His attitude is that unilateral moves are ephemeral and subject to blowback from a timid Congress and that he'd prefer compromise to vain political stands on most issues (at least at this point in his term). He may well decide to adopt a more principled attitude when it becomes certain that there's no political remedy available to advance legislation. But, for now, he's focused on getting a more amenable Congress and some distance from the midterm election-season's political traps.

Will he break free from his political calculations and take more unilateral stands and actions in the future? I think we've seen some evidence (in unilateral appointments) that he will.

[mmonk]

33. I know what you are saying but my question is more along the lines

of what is he politically. For example, no one has been pushing him for charter schools and opposing the teachers union or no one has been pushing him to invoke the state secrets privilege in court cases involving Bush administration officials' misconduct. The administration has done some things unilaterally that are not progressive. So I am asking what is progressive about him?

[kgnu_fan]

27. We need to rescue him from the dark forces surrounding him, do not isolate him

[LWolf]

28. His policies reflect those of the "Progressive Policy Institute."

http://www.ppionline.org/

[readmoreoften]

34. Which is not progressive at all, but a "Third Way"/DLC creation.

http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Progressive_Policy_Institute


"Leaving behind the stale left-right debates of the industrial era, PPI is a prolific source of 'Third Way' thinking that is shaping the emerging politics of the 21st century."

Oh that STALE "left-right" debate! How progressive!

[LWolf]

46. Exactly. The term "progressive" does not have a single meaning.

It's quite clever, actually. Third-way neoliberals' claims to be progressive are legitimate. It kind of skews all those polls who use the term "progressive" to mean "very liberal."

If they are progressive, though, I'm not. I'm the LEFT, and still here.

[Whisp]

29. one way to look at Obama's accomplishments

and whether they make progress is compare them to whether a Republican would have worked on it.

for Example out of the over 250 good changes Obama has made would a Republican
have passed Lilly Ledbetter (forgive bad speling), gays being able to visit partners in hospitals, Matthew Sheppard hate crime law, etc. etc.

If someone can provide the link for the list of that 255 would be nice, thanks.

All of these things are progressing toward a better place. so yes, Obama is progressive but he can't leap frog instantly over decades of destruction and rot to a place called Shangri-La.

[treestar]

30. Nothing, if you are going to position yourself in the far, far, left

Go find a teabagger, who will tell you he's a communist.

The labels don't work anymore, since everyone refuses to agree on them and simply labels anyone left or right of them with the other extreme.

[readmoreoften]

35. The "far, far Left" is not progressive, it's communist.

Progressive would be, for instance, not a complete neoliberal free marketer--which he clearly is.

[readmoreoften]

36. You probably think Europe is "socialist" or "communist" or something...

:eyes:

France and Sweden are "progressive" nations with strong labor laws. The US is a neoliberal hell and Obama hasn't done a single substantial thing to change that.

[treestar]

49. Each individual seems to think that anyone to the right of them

is a corporatist and anyone to the left is a communist.

That's why the labels don't work.

You don't know what I think. I'm talking about how everyone seems to want their own individual labels adopted.

[mmonk]

37. First it doesn't have anything to with me or anyone else.

If labels do not work, then what is "far, far, left"? I'm not asking if he is progressive or not either. I'm asking what is progressive about him that could be defined as such?

[WinkyDink]

43. Labels work quite well, actually, having historical roots and philosophies.

Where they do not "work" is with people who try to make excuses.

[Greyhound]

32. Unfortunately as expected. n/t

:kick:

[BzaDem]

40. Not only are the policies Obama proposes progressive -- the policies that passed are progressive.

The stimulus was progressive.

Financial reform was progressive.

Healthcare was one of the most sweeping pieces of progressive legislation in four decades. And this isn't even a remotely close call. It is obviously true, without any ambiguity or reservation. People who do not believe HCR as passed was progressive indicate a problem with their general understanding, not a problem with the law.

[mmonk]

44. The financial reform was way to weak.

The stimulus was progressive but contained too much in tax cuts rather than job producing projects which weakened its effectiveness. I think the cash for clunkers was progressive as well.

[mmonk]

45. I'll make a correction.

Yes, those things you have listed are progressive in that they move the ball forward.

[treestar]

50. Too weak according to who?

That's why it's not good when people try to shield themselves from hearing those who disagree with them. They create this echo chamber here where Obama is not a progressive.

I talk to right wingers and they call it socialistic.

[mmonk]

53. Rightwingers are batshit crazy these days.

I'm not alone in viewing it as weak.

[LWolf]

47. "Progressive" as the PPI would define it. nt

[BAU]

48. He's doing a lot of the same things Bush did that pissed off the left

FISA extension, War extension and Corporate Cronyism are hard to get around in the comparison.

[rug]

52. He moves to the right more slowly.