Bush Administration ... CAN WE KILL A US AIRMAN TO GET OUR WAR?

[Ichingcarpenter]

Then kill more people?




from the book from General Shelton.


"Hugh, I know I shouldn't even be asking you this, but what we really need in order to go in and take out Saddam is a precipitous event—something that would make us look good in the eyes of the world. Could you have one of our U-2s fly low enough — and slow enough—so as to guarantee that Saddam could shoot it down?"


The hair on the back of my neck bristled, my teeth clenched, and my fists tightened. I was so mad I was about to explode.



I looked across the table, thinking about the pilot in the U-2 and responded, "Of course we can . . ." which prompted a big smile on the official's face.

"You can?" was the excited reply.

"Why, of course we can," I countered. "Just as soon as we get your ass qualified to fly it, I will have it flown just as low and slow as you want to go."



Read more: http://u2r2h.blogspot.com/2010/10/hugh-shelton-911-fals...




Anything that exposes some of the crimes and fuck ups of the Bush adm
is OK with me. He has enough rank to get on TV to promote his book hopefully
on the TV news circuit.

This guy endorsed Hillary and said he wouldn't vote for Gen Clark, his boss.


I never expect much from the Top Brass and believe the lens they use
to view reality and history is tainted.

Here's his bio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Shelton

[babylonsister]

1. I'm appalled. Now I'll read more. Thanks. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. I posted this in a couple of threads but the Message

didn't get out. So I decided to post it on its own.

I want to know WHO Shelton talked to
it wasn't mentioned in the book but it had
to be someone close to Rumsfeld and very top
to his cabal..

ISN'T THIS TREASON?

[d_r]

2. this sounds interesting

I couldn't get the link to work, could you double check it, thanks.

[old mark]

3. I generally have a dim view of the professional officer class in the US, but

every so often there are a few really outstanding exceptions to the rule...


mark

added: I see by the Wiki article he was ROTC, not a trade school officer, and that he has a lot of varied combat experience, including 4 bronze stars, a PH and a CIB. He was a real soldier, not a chair warrior...I bet a lot of the other generals really hated him.

I would trust what he says.


M

[CanonRay]

4. A good insight into how these Bushco idiots really think

everyone else is expendable.

[tblue37]

53. It was during Clinton's administration! nt

[mainer]

5. That incident apparently happened in 1997

during the Clinton, not Bush administration. I'd love to know which "administration official" that was. According to this:
http://www.commandposts.com/2010/10/without-hesitation/
it was not Berger, Tenet, Cohen, or Richardson...

[Enrique]

7. sounds like it's Albright

he says "cabinet member", and she's the only one there other than Cohen, and Shelton says Cohen was talking to someone else at the time.

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. Sorry you are very wrong

the links and the dates he provided. state when he confronted this.

[mainer]

12. Then your Wikipedia article is all wrong

because I just followed the link embedded within YOUR wikipedia link to find the date 1997.

[Ichingcarpenter]

20. It changed

that is all

[Angry Dragon]

6. I thought it was the Clinton administration

[crazyjoe]

10. link doesn't work. who was this "official" ?

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Yes it was I caught portions of the book on this

when the story broke, then did a search and this portion of the book came up about a week ago. I think for copywrite purposes it was removed, I guarantee its in the book.

[mainer]

11. Here's the quote from Shelton:

Go to the wikipedia link in the OP. Then click on the link within the Wikipedia article about the October incident. (And yes, I just followed the links that were in the OP). In the Wikipedia article, scroll down to the last paragraph where it says: On October 12,


-- High-ranking Cabinet member proposes intentionally allowing an American pilot to be killed by the Iraqis to have an excuse to retaliate and go to war."
click on the link in that last sentence.


October 1997

Early on in my days as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, we had small, weekly White House breakfasts in National Security Advisor Sandy Berger’s office that included me, Sandy, Bill Cohen (Secretary of Defense), Madeleine Albright (Secretary of State), George Tenet (head of the CIA), Leon Firth (VP chief of staff for security), Bill Richardson (ambassador to the U.N.), and a few other senior administration officials. These were informal sessions where we would gather around Berger’s table and talk about concerns over coffee and breakfast served by the White House dining facility. It was a comfortable setting that encouraged brainstorming of potential options on a variety of issues of the day.

During that time we had U-2 aircraft on reconnaissance sorties over Iraq. These planes were designed to fly at extremely high speeds and altitudes (over seventy thousand feet) both for pilot safety and to avoid detection.

At one of my very first breakfasts, while Berger and Cohen were engaged in a sidebar discussion down at one end of the table and Tenet and Richardson were preoccupied in another, one of the Cabinet members present leaned over to me and said, “Hugh, I know I shouldn’t even be asking you this, but what we really need in order to go in and take out Saddam is a precipitous event—something that would make us look good in the eyes of the world. Could you have one of our U-2s fly low enough—and slow enough—so as to guarantee that Saddam could shoot it down?”

The hair on the back of my neck bristled, my teeth clenched, and my fists tightened. I was so mad I was about to explode. I looked across the table, thinking about the pilot in the U-2 and responded, “Of course we can . . .” which prompted a big smile on the official’s face.

“You can?” was the excited reply.

“Why, of course we can,” I countered. “Just as soon as we get your ass qualified to fly it, I will have it flown just as low and slow as you want to go.”

The official reeled back and immediately the smile disappeared. “I knew I should not have asked that. . . .”

“No, you should not have,” I strongly agreed, still shocked at the disrespect and sheer audacity of the question. “Remember, there is one of our great Americans flying that U-2, and you are asking me to intentionally send him or her to their death for an opportunity to kick Saddam. The last time I checked, we don’t operate like that here in America.”

I left the room that day but I never forgot it. I went back and I shared it with the Joint Chiefs— not revealing who the official was—but nonetheless getting into how it had played out. “You may not think those types of things still happen in Washington, but trust me—they do, and I’ve just been exposed to it. Keep your antennas up and do not ever fall into it.”

[JohnnyLib2]

13. Clinton administration.

[JohnnyLib2]

15. Clinton administration? Here's the Huffington item:

www.huffingtonpost.com/social/dems08/hugh-shelton-book-clinton-iraq-war-albright_n_764403_63827584.html

[mainer]

17. Which says "Clinton Administration"

And the officials cited in the description of the incident were all Clinton officials.

[JohnnyLib2]

28. Yup.

This is a peculiar thread, eh?

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. I await your Crow

Crow doesn't taste like any bird you've eaten




I have never been proven wrong on my OPs ever.

Give it Time.

[JohnnyLib2]

31. I'm flat confused about what's in the book.

Personally, I hope it WAS the Bush gang. (That would make any crow taste better LOL) :hi:

[Ichingcarpenter]

34. I live in Scandinavia now

Even the internet
can be something for
the novice to think he is
a member on this new way
of getting information on what is real.

There is an assault on the internet
because the lies you have seen with their lens
in the TV media and the other spankers
Lies have enough money and power
to infiltrate any media

We are trying to give you the truth
more than you already know.

AND AMERICANS ARE PUTTING THEIR LIVES
ON THE LINE AND FACE PRISON TERMS.

To let the truth come out.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. It was changed

I read this a week ago.

Not the same page, but you know how editing goes
on Wikipedia.

[Regret My New Name]

36. We can probably look at the edit history on wikipedia to see what was originally in there

I'm curious too what's in the book... I really don't want to buy it though. :P

[elehhhhna]

41. my $'s on Tenet

[crazyjoe]

54. If I've learned anything posting at DU, it is to question everything.

This is a explosive accusation. What possible reason does Shelton have to make it, but not name the official? It makes him look like a liar, because there is nobody to point the finger at, this person may not even exist.
Pretty cowardly if you ask me. How are we going to bring these bastards down for good if all we get is some accusation against "some cabinet member" ?
We wouldn't let the right get away with that, why wouldn't we hold ourselves to the same standard.

[formercia]

18. That's a great reply n/t

[Turbineguy]

19. There are always people who are willing

to ask such questions. Especially in Washington. Sure it's despicable, but not out of context.

[barbtries]

21. Page not found

am i the only one the page won't open for?

[mainer]

22. Try this Salon link instead.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/10/15/clinton_official_iraq_hugh_shelton

It gives you the same information.

I don't know why I can't seem to post a usable link to that Wikipedia link. When I go to the site, and then copy and paste the site, it doesn't seem to give me a usable link.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. read this thread .... the info I found has been removed

But many, when I found it a week ago read it.
And verified it.. and reaffirmed my findings
I right now think that the info
is being manipulated..... because of the impact
it could make.

I guess we need to read the book when it is really released..

The Clinton Reference mentioned here is BULLSHIT.

He attacked the Rumsfeld not Clinton

Like I said.... Wikipedias is edited
I've done it myself.

[barbtries]

35. okay thanks

i've heard before about bush having this idea, to incite a war.

[Regret My New Name]

51. I looked throught he wikipedia edits over the last couple weeks and didn't see what you saw

can you help find it? I'm sure I'm just overlooking it.

[CJCRANE]

24. I'm sure I read about this around the time of the Downing Street Memo.

I thought it happened in the Bush era.

[mainer]

25. Even if it was Clinton administration, they didn't start the war

So really, it's sort of irrelevant in the context of what followed.

Leaders get stupid advice all the time. The test of a true leader is what he decides to do with that advice.

[blm]

27. Add the fact that Tony Blair was prepared to invade Iraq before Bush took office.

'

[CJCRANE]

26. This was discussed on DU back in '04..

but I get the feeling the General has embellished the story or changed the details.

[area51]

30. Does anyone need more evidence that republicans hate the troops?

Anyone? Bueller?

[lonestarnot]

37. Never needed any in the first place.

[SoCalDem]

32. "The Americanization of Emily" part 2

:(

[wildbilln864]

33. This reminds me....

of when Bush suggested to Blair that they disguise a plane to look like a UN plane so Saddam could shoot it down and then have their excuse to get their war on. :banghead:

[FourScore]

38. Wow. Great response by the General!!! n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. Weirdest thread ever.

Every link indicates the exact opposite of the point the OP is attempting to make.

Interested to read the book.

[newspeak]

40. I remember a thread on DU at the time

when Little Boots apparently suggested a UN plane shootdown. At the time, it reminded me of Hitler's bogus scenario for invading Poland. And, oh, Hitler wanted to "free" the polish citizenry of their evil dictator.

I don't know about the scenario with Clinton, but I do remember the one with Little Boots.

[laylah]

42. Already gone...

which is of no surprise.

Jenn

[laylah]

43. I am confused...

the Salon article contributes this exchange to during the Clinton administration. Now, I hate *dumbass as much as any other American, freedom loving individual does; however, IF I am reading this right,

"Here's what happened shortly after Shelton became Joint Chiefs chair in October 1997, according to his book:..."

Anyone?

Jenn

[mainer]

44. Of course you're confused. So is the OP.

Really, as responsible Dems we need to clarify and correct when we encounter incorrect information.

[laylah]

45. Thank you!

That is what I was thinking but speaking directly is frowned upon so often. That, and I have SUCH a thin skin...who'd a thunk it after all of these years here at DU :P

Jenn

[Ichingcarpenter]

47. Whatever you say

.
You are the one in a back handed way that attacked
the Democrats
first.
NOT ME.

Then ME
personally you
Attacked me
in your OP title.

[mainer]

48. I'm attacking what appears to be misinformation

If it turns out I'm wrong (along with Wikipedia, Huffington Post, and Salon.coml) then I'll willingly admit it.

Supporting the truth is not attacking Democrats. The truth knows no party.

[Ichingcarpenter]

50. I know where you stand

I don't need to be in Allied Prison Camp
to understand where your philosophies come from

[laylah]

46. I unrec'd for what I BELIEVE

to be erroneous information. Prove me wrong. Have at it :hide:

Jenn

[Puregonzo1188]

49. I'm sorry, I believe this was a Clinton Administration Official being

referenced. Of course, as several DUers have pointed out (and I pointed out in the last thread) Bush did suggest something similar involving painting a US spy plane with UN colors.

Let's face it, lying our nation into war is bipartisan (Gulf Of Tonkin). And Clinton's Iraq policy is nothing for us to proud of. The sanctions were pretty brutal, and had a very costly effect on the civilian population of Iraq. They also helped galvanize hatred against the US in the Middle East, and contributed, along with other US policies, to 9/11.

Seriously, we need to have a more honest discussion of US foreign policy on DU. It's not Repubs evil, Dems saints. The US is still an Empire no matter who's in power.

[tblue37]

52. ?? I read that this exchange took place during the CLINTON administration.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/15/hugh-shelton-book-clinton-iraq-war-albright_n_764403.html

<snip>

Turns out the incident took place during the Clinton administration, and Shelton's response to the suggestion...well, let's just say it more than lives up to the title of the memoir.

<snip>

At one of my very first breakfasts, while Berger and Cohen were engaged in a sidebar discussion down at one end of the table and Tenet and Richardson were preoccupied in another, one of the Cabinet members present leaned over to me and said, "Hugh, I know I shouldn't even be asking you this, but what we really need in order to go in and take out Saddam is a precipitous event -- something that would make us look good in the eyes of the world. Could you have one of our U-2s fly low enough -- and slow enough -- so as to guarantee that Saddam could shoot it down?"

The hair on the back of my neck bristled, my teeth clenched, and my fists tightened. I was so mad I was about to explode. I looked across the table, thinking about the pilot in the U-2 and responded, "Of course we can ..." which prompted a big smile on the official's face.

"You can?" was the excited reply.

"Why, of course we can," I countered. "Just as soon as we get your ass qualified to fly it, I will have it flown just as low and slow as you want to go."