Serious question regarding debates between male candidates and female candidates.

[blondeatlast]

I watched the O'Donnell-Coons debate the other day and a little of the Reid/Angle debate. O'Donnell baited him with cheap shot comment a gentleman can't respond to; so did Angle do to Reid.

The TeaBPublicans are taking advantage of their intensely stupid, easily trained female candidates and setting them up with lines that male candidates cannot respond to fairly. The TeaBPublicans want our "guys" to take cheap shots; to their credit, they have not.

It's not just debates, either--the whole stink about Jerry Brown calling Nutmeg a whore--which fits in the context of politics is rooted in a true double-standard.

I'm a feminist, and I resent that gentlemen are subject to cheap shots while the "ladies" get off scot-free.

So I ask, how should this be handled? Let's try to keep this intelligent; you may want to call Nutmeg and the Magic Christian vile names, but their opponents can't. Let's try to help them out.

[pnwmom]

1. Would humor work? For example,

"I'm not sure, Christine, what you mean by "man up." Is it the opposite of "woman up"?

[blondeatlast]

11. In some cases, but I think these comments ("man up". "put your pants on")

are scripted and rehearsed.

[pnwmom]

18. I'm sure they are rehearsed. But I wonder how someone like

Bill Clinton would have defused them.

[tridim]

2. I look at it as immaturity. I hope the voters see it that way too.

One of the MSNBC pundits said it deserves a "Have you no sense of decency?" type response.

[blondeatlast]

3. I don't think it's immaturity. I think it's planned and even rehearsed. nt

[Gabi Hayes]

6. it was completely obvious that Angle's "man up" comment had nothing to do with what she said next.

I saw it....don't remember what her point was, only that it immediately struck me how completely out of place the "Man up" remark was. nothing to do with fortitude, grits, guts, whatever. she was clearly trying to make him seem less manly

really disgusting

that said, Reid was as bad a debater as I've ever seen. dunno how much of it was that he was clearly bending over backwards to be polite, perhaps deferring to the 'femininity' represented by the virago he was up against.

[tridim]

10. Planned by similarly immature handlers, like Frank Luntz.

All of these candidates could have refused to do it, but they didn't.

[blondeatlast]

14. Luntz--exactly. Lower than slug-slime. nt

[elleng]

25. Luntz may be many things, including immature, but his advice is based on testing/polling,

so there's a rationale behind it, whether or not we can perceive it.

I think the statements should be ignored at initially, usually, unless a good response/zinger happens to come to mind, and follow-up should occur later, methodically, in ads etc.

[CTyankee]

26. Ellen,you are SO right! My son in law is a Dem political consultant whose specialty

is focus groups, and I can assure everybody that everything that can be conceived is focus grouped/polled. Where the fun comes in is when the stuff that ISN'T conceived pops up!
That's when the fun starts...

don't know why O'Donnell hadn't prepped on the SCOTUS question...somebody screwed up really badly...

[elleng]

27. or she just fergot!!!

[elleng]

28. Neat job (if you can stand it! How does he do?)

[CTyankee]

32. He has a pretty nice job...he is working with the polling person at the Kennedy School

for Politics at Harvard, office right in Cambridge. They're working on a project for the USMC. He works with very interesting people.

He did some work doing focus groups for Kerry's campaign in 04 and has worked on projects for Biden. He thinks the world of Joe Biden and was one of his early supporters, before the emergence of Obama.

We have some great dinner table conversations about politics (it's OK since everybody agrees on politics!).

[nenagh]

12. Planned and rehearsed absolutely..

And a dog whistle of sorts..

NA NA NA NA NA NA ...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

34. Angle and O'Donnell are two of the most immature candidates I've ever seen

As is Palin.......but their supporters are just as immature.

[frazzled]

4. How should it be handled?

First, by pointing out that suggestions like "man up" are offensive and sexist (if not subtly homophobic), just as much so as accusing a female candidate of being a "whore" or a "bitch." Neither of these types of accusations has any place in a debate. (Not that the whore comment was ever made by a candidate, much less in a debate; private comments by staff shouldn't even enter the picture.)

If I were Harry Reid I would have stopped and said, "what do you mean by that comment? Are you suggesting I'm weak or effeminate? I should remind you that a weak person would hardly have been elected by his peers to be Majority Leader of the United States Senate. And I should remind you that I was a boxer in my younger years. Perhaps you'd like to "man up" with me and we could go a few rounds?"

[Gabi Hayes]

8. love your response for reid, but I'm afraid he wouldn't have the, uh, balls.

and he's clearly about as quick on his feet as Candy Crowley in a mud wrestling pit

[frazzled]

17. Wrong answer

Saying Harry Reid "doesn't have the balls" (whether meant in jest or not) is as offensive as the "man up" comment. I've seen Harry Reid scream his lungs out on C-Span (to an empty chamber, as they all do). People like Reid don't get into the powerful position they have without having a whole lot of strength and persistence. That he may not be the most effective speaker may be true: that is neither his forte nor a necessity for his position. (His job is to outwit the opposition in scheduling votes, and to twist arms in back rooms.)

I like and respect the gentle but firm demeanor of men like Harry Reid and Dick Durbin. I don't like swaggerers or those who like to prove they've got testosterone. I likes me my men honest, smart, and polite. I think Harry Reid fits that bill.

[Gabi Hayes]

21. lighten up, francis. I couldn't watch reid 'debate', though I really tried.

it was painful, and I take issue with your characterizing him as a man with quiet fortitude, or whatever.

sorry if you take offense at my attempt at lightening things up, given the context, but reid will surely go down as one of the most feckless (purposefully or not remains to be seen) majority leaders the dems have ever seen

[blondeatlast]

29. My dad was a quiet, but verey effective man; very successful in his profession, He worked in

public administration, in charge of state schools for the (what was then) mentally retarded.

He was respected and listened to by congresspeople, benefactors, governors--and most importantly, the people he served. He managed to make changes that were unpopular, but led to more humane treatment of institutionalized people.

I truly, truly miss gentlemen of dignified strength--and I think there ought to be way more Harry Reids in Congress.

[pnwmom]

31. I agree. We need more gentlemen (and gentlewomen) in the Senate.

We don't need any Sharon Angles.

[pnwmom]

20. That answer sounds defensive.

How about, "What do you mean by 'man up'? Is it the opposite of (PAUSE) 'woman up'? But seriously, we shouldn't be tossing insults. We need to be talking about real solutions for the real problems, etc. etc.

[blondeatlast]

30. True, deflection would be another good tactic. nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

35. Are you kidding me?

Michelle "Mugwai" Malkin and Sean Hannitty would be calling Reid a woman beater.

[Pirate Smile]

5. Not only can they say horribly sexist offensive crap questioning their opponents manhood

but then, if they follow the Palin way, they scream sexism over anything they want to - I'll never forget the jaw-dropping idiocy of the "lip-stick on a pig" episode during the 2008 election. The number of media people who treated it like it was a real issue was amazing.

RW women make emasculating and homophobic insinuations against who they are running against while having a hair-trigger cry of sexism ready at all times. It is really disgusting - and, yes, I'm a woman.

[blondeatlast]

7. Me too, and it sets our progress back. It infuriates me; it's cynical

and destructive.

I appreciate good manners respect--RW women use it as a weapon against their own geneder.

[seabeyond]

9. excellent post. palin started it and pissed me off so. yes it is wrong. yes i would like to see

the men handle it, not like suggestions on the man up thread which were responses in sexist form, but handle it like a responsible adult calling the woman out in an intellectual and just and educational manner. i would give anything to see this.

this is why i have issue when women use their sexually in the work environment. it isnt fair to all.

[pipi_k]

13. Well, for me it's not so much what they say...

but what they often do.

Some women take advantage of men's reluctance to strike them back when they (the women) inflict physical abuse on men. A man really shouldn't hit a woman for any reason, but that doesn't give a woman a free ride to do whatever the hell she wants to the man knowing that he can't...or won't...retaliate in kind.

This actually happened to my son during grade school when he was being harassed by a girl who hit him knowing he would not hit her back because he knew he shouldn't hit girls no matter what they did to him.

I had a little confrontation with her mother, who turned out to be precisely the kind of parent who didn't give a shit.

What a surprise.

anyway...names....whatever. Sticks and stones and all that.

but physical abuse...unacceptable, even from women.

[northoftheborder]

15. Somebody like Al Franken could come back with a quick-witted funny response - but few people have...

that much wit in a tense situation. It was cheap of Angle to do that, but ignoring it is probably best like Reid did, rather than blowing up (some would do that) (like McCain).

[livetohike]

16. The whole Mama Grizzly, GOP women running for office

phenomenon reminds me of the late 60's when women thought they had to dress like/act like a man to be accepted in the workplace. I think the GOP women are so far behind the times(feminism)and they don't have an intellect to lean on, so they try to demean their male opponents to make themselves look tough.

That doesn't answer your question of how to handle it though. Perhaps the male opponents should just look at them and smile, then turn to the camera and give a coherent answer.

[lunatica]

19. "I put my man pants on every morning ma'am. One leg at a time like everyone else"

That would get a laugh from the audience and the tebaggerette would know she just stuck her foot in her mouth.

See, men can't answer with an insult because that's unacceptable, but they can sure answer with humor.

[pnwmom]

22. I agree. Humor is the solution. n/t

[blondeatlast]

23. My thought: "A gentleman would not respond to such vulgarity and a lady

wouldn't present it." Followed by an icy glance over the top of the glasses--every Dem should learn the power of that gesture as I have (can't wear contacts and wouldn't if I could!).

Disjoins the "gender" problem and puts the RW woman totally on the defensive.

[seabeyond]

24. yes. exactly. nt

[blondeatlast]

33. k