Politicians who don't understand the Establishment Clause should not be rewarded with election

[BurtWorm]

That goes for any imbecile who claims the US is a Christian nation. That is a flat out lie, Bonehead Bachmann:


http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/scienceblogs/pharyngula/~3/to_OLfNja_E/for_people_who_worship_the_con.php


For people who worship the constitution, they sure don't know what is in it

Video is not Christine O'Donnell's friend — every time she opens her mouth she exposes her ugly, ignorant side. The latest faux pas comes from here performance in a debate with her opponent in which she reveals she hasn't read the first amendment, and is surprised by what's in it.

Here's the relevant part:

"Let me just clarify," O'Donnell pressed. "You're telling me that the separation of church and state is found in the First Amendment?"

"The government shall make no establishment of religion," Coons said, summarizing the gist of the specific words in the First Amendment's establishment clause.

"That's in the First Amendment?" O'Donnell asked again, eliciting further laughter from the room.

This is a fairly common talking point among lunatics of the far right. It is literally true that the phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the constitution, but the first amendment is still quite clear: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" means you don't get to use the influence of government to help promote your cult. It also promises not to get in the way of your evangelizing, but that the state itself is going to be neutral.

We also have a lunatic running for secretary of state in Minnesota who has been saying the same thing as O'Donnell.

Quite often you hear people say, 'What about separation of church and state?' There is no such thing. I mean it just does not exist, and it does not exist in America for a purpose, because we are a Christian nation. We are a nation based on Christian principles and ideals, and those are the things that guarantee our liberties. It is one of those things that is so fundamental to the freedoms that we have that when you begin to restrict our belief and our attestation to our Christian values you begin to restrict our liberties. You simply cannot continue a nation as America without that Christian base of liberty.

It seems rather obvious to me. The constitution saying that no state religion shall be established is in direct contradiction with anyone claiming that Christianity is our state religion.

[wtmusic]

1. Boneheads running, boneheads voting.

:headbang: Bonehead Nation! :headbang:

[NightWatcher]

2. a test prior to voting is illegal, but should there be one to run for office?

A basic 9th grade civics test in addition to whatever other criteria might be a good thing before filing to run

[wtmusic]

3. Absolutely

Running for office currently has no requirement other than getting voted for.

Coons should challenge O'Donnell to a Jeopardy!-style faceoff on civics. Of course she'd never accept, but it would be fun to watch her squirm.

[LiberalArkie]

4. I think that comes from the term "Separation of church and state" We should be using

something that else that states that government can not interfere with or promote religion. I know same difference, but that would unquestionably be in the constitution.

[BurtWorm]

5. I don't understand your point.

The Establishment Clause is in the First Amendment, which is in the Constitution: "Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion."

[DUFan]

6. Schools receive money from the Federal Government.

Congress decides the amount that each state receives. Teaching Creationism in schools funded by Congress is the same as Congress establishing a State Religion.

[rbixby]

7. This is one of those things you just can't argue with some people

I posted several months ago about a discussion I had with someone regarding this same issue. I started off simply by stating the first amendment, their retort was that there was no 'separation of church and state' said exactly like that in there. So I went on to discuss and paste in Jefferson's 'wall of separation' letter, along with the pertinent SCOTUS case history about the establishment clause. The person then started telling me that the declaration of independence established this country as Christian. When I explained that there are no christian references in this document, and it is not the document which was set as our code of laws, he then quoted the articles of confederation. That document does have some Christian references in it, but it is irrelevant because the constitution supersedes it as the law of the land.
The FINAL kicker was his use of the Mayflower Compact in explaining that our country was founded on Christianity.

After much explaining that the constitution is the 'law of the land' and that no other document stands up in courts in this country, and that for over 200 years, the constitution has been our governing document, he simply started back up again from the beginning.
You just can't argue with these people, they live in their own reality, and no matter what you tell them, they believe what they believe, no matter how wrong it may be. Its almost like our country being founded on secular grounds is a threat to their very faith or something.

[maxsolomon]

8. it is a threat to their faith

like Maddow said last night - we're operating with 2 different sets of facts. we can't even agree on terminology.

and this isn't the only topic:
climate change
homosexual equality
evolution

they will never ever ever ever cede a point based in logic and reason.