Immigration Reform (simplified)

[SHRED]

Imprison the illegal employer.

Solved.

Although the downside is that this takes away the "fun" that the RW'ers have in bashing Mexicans.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. What about illegal consumers?

You know... the ones that buy orange juice picked by illegal immigrant pickers?

[SHRED]

3. That is an affect...

...go to the cause.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. The cause?

Me wanting reasonably priced orange juice?

[SHRED]

5. Our country is getting "sold out"...

...to the lowest bidder.

Cheap labor has it's far greater hidden costs beyond cheap prices.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. We will have to pay higher prices

but this cheap labor gone will also mean better paying jobs

You will be able to afford that juice

Classic Economics, what can I say?

;-)

[wildbilln864]

19. I want free beer too...

but I can't get it!
lol Well, sometimes I can.

[TahitiNut]

20. People wanted "reasonably priced" cotton in 1860, too.

:shrug:

In the early 20th century, United Fruit Company wanted their consumers to have "reasonably priced" bananas. Thus, the United States Marines invaded Honduras (1903), the Dominican Republic (1903), Cuba (1906), Nicaragua (1907 and 1909), Panama (1912), and so on.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. In 1865, people wanted to ship black people back to Africa.

Instead of making them full legal U.S. citizens.

[TahitiNut]

24. You seem to forget that illegal aliens are already citizens ...

... of other countries, that freed slaves were citizens of this country, and that African-Americans are citizens here who have more than double the average unemployment and even lesser wages due to undocumented workers. Gosh. D'oh. Funny about that.

Personally, I'm in favor of people who want to employ illegal aliens doing it in someone else's country. :shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. You seem to think that makes a difference.

I don't know why.

[Critters2]

27. A rising tide lifts all boats

If the workers at the bottom of the wage scale are better paid, more money is available in the economy and everyone benefits. Prices will go up, but so will wages. And then there's the issue of less money being sent out of the country, which will thus also circulate in this economy.

Besides, you have no guaranteed right to cheap orange juice, and orange juice harvested by abused and exploited workers is not "reasonably priced".

[TahitiNut]

29. The notion that wages determine price is a fallacy.

It's the market that determines price - lower wages merely increase profits. Has anyone noticed the price of a pair of Nikes?

[Critters2]

30. Good point

So, Bornagain's cheap orange juice may or may not have to do with cheap labor. More expensive labor may just mean less money for the CEO. Which wouldn't be a bad thing.

[wildbilln864]

2. Damn right!

and fine the shit out of em! :grr:

[mitchtv]

7. Confiscatory fines

Pay first with your business license and deed ; then get out of jail

[wildbilln864]

16. yep! n/t

[gravity]

6. Screw the immigrants who want to make a better lives for themselves

Americans are better so we should have the jobs

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[Deja Q]

9. You forgot the immigrants who worked hard to get here legally...

Not to mention people disqualified as being 'overqualified' for those jobs yet 'underqualified' for everything being offshored, which is a joke...

It's not about race or nationality. It's about law, morality, and ethics and it transcends this one issue, which is not an unimportant one. It wasn't me who left out "those who worked hard to get here legally", you know.

[gravity]

18. It's a complicated issue

That's why we shouldn't have such a simple decision.

The ethics aren't black in white in this case. No matter what we do, either the immigrants or American workers are going to be worst off. The law needs to make a compromise between the two parties.

[wildbilln864]

23. HypnoToad.........

:yourock:
I completely agree. It's the fucking law! The law! If you break it, you're a criminal who's commited a crime!

[gravity]

25. We should lock them all up potheads while we're at it

They knew the law, but they still chose to get high.

:evilgrin:

[SHRED]

11. Bring back trade tariffs and...

...crackdown on illegal hiring.

Watch your wages rise.

[glowing]

12. Yes, everyone should have jobs. Everyone should also be able

to live where they want in this world. But we are so far from being a peaceful world that could handle the ramifications of no borders anywhere with equality and opportunity everywhere... (I'm speaking of the kind without the corporate elitists who wish to rule us into slavery)

[Deja Q]

14. Corporations want no borders - hence offshoring too. BUT,

how come for military purposes those lines remain? The 'globalization' is on economic terms ONLY?

Worse, if globalization is to be GLOBAL, how come only the developing countries are sought? Why aren't developed countries matching their wages and cost of living to match the rest of the world? Why that discrepancy? (because it would hurt the execs, not the people in America who can not live on $4/hr the way anyone in India and China can live on it there... and I betcha they're not keen on taking people emigrating from other countries. The game works both ways.)

[glowing]

21. That's why I said we are not ready to erase our borders. With

the corporate elitist's in charge as of now, and everyone else running around like rats on a wheel not paying attention to what is going on around them. That's why I hate people who say politics are boring... They are not boring.. they are our life.

But John Lennon way... a world with peace and love... we could erase borders and go anywhere without even thinking of needing a passport. I could go work in Russia, if a job position was available and appealed to me, and still be free and with rights and with equivalent wealth that I would have living anywhere else.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I am amazed that a bright immigration lawyer

has not brought up NAFTA before them judges...

that said, it is not about the immigrants but a policy of cheap labor that is screwing everybody over, yes including them

Read the bill... you are in for some surprises including serfdom or slavery depending on the term you want to use

I am sure the US Chamber of Commerce loves that part

[glowing]

8. Its not easy to determine whether or not a person is legal or

illegal. If a person has the paper work and social, then it is submitted. The IRS and ICE do not work together. There are multiple names being used for the same social numbers and vice versa. Remember a social security number is not supposed to be used as an I.D., even though it is. So, this is one case where they apply the rule.

But once you get into tagging and tracking people, usually civil liberties are taken. How do we come up with a system that allows employers to know if they are legal or illegal? Would you support a national I.D. card?

Perhaps, if Mexicans had jobs in Mexico, they wouldn't be coming to the United States. But NAFTA royally screwed them even more than their own govt of rich elitist have for years. Empowering the people ends slavery. Education and vigilance is the way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. That is why you FINE the employers

at 10K a pop, per the 1986 bill....

Second and third offenses get even worst

You make it so expensive to hire ilegals that nobody will touch them, regardless of national origin

It is by national policy that we are NOT doing that

[Deja Q]

17. You mean, instead of coming to our country they should improve their own?

Which can be said for Americans emigrating to other countries as well, it's not a one-sided issue. Never is. Never can be.

Doesn't England already use a national ID system?

Our drivers' licenses are a form of ID. How is a national ID card any worse? Only if they don't use updated methods to protect it from ID theft; the one form of piracy nobody wants to really care about. :(

[Jed Dilligan]

26. So who goes to jail if the employer

is a major corporation?

[Critters2]

28. The decision makers in that corporation responsible for hiring practices

Put the CEO of Smithfield/IBP in jail, and watch how quickly things change!

[Jed Dilligan]

31. You mean the "bad apples" that randomly happen to be

in each branch office or running each franchise. I don't think this will affect them at all. They'll just find worse apples.

[Critters2]

32. Once the apple find out they could end up in jail,

I think they'll consider seriously whether they want to get worse.

[Jed Dilligan]

33. Worked well with drugs, I guess...

not

There will always be people willing to risk jail to make money.