Spending too much time on the LTTE "comments"...

[Bigmack]

...on the newspaper websites. Seattle Times and San Diego Union Trib mostly. Getting over some surgery, so I have much more time than usual to piss away on the dumbshits that love to advertise their stupidity.

I end up being the last poster on a lot of the threads. I think they get tired of me giving them proof that what they're saying is bullshit. They are absolutely incapable of accepting any kind of proof.

I'm not even a good debater, but most of the other side is dumber than a box of rocks.

Check out the one today.

WARNING... long post. If you don't like the length... don't read it. Just don't hump me... I'm tired. I did some decent research that might help DUers in discussion with "those people".
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Hillary 13 posted on the opinion item... "For Too Many Americans, The Nation's Problems Go Beyond Public Perception" in the Seattle Times today.
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HILLARY13 POSTED....

ALL OF THIS CAN AND MUST BE STOPPED....YES THIS YEAR YOUR VOTE WILL REALLY COUNT.

And worse yet?

Now, your insurance will be INCOME on your W2's!

One of the surprises we'll find come next year, is what follows - - a little "surprise" that 99% of us had no idea was included in the "new and improved" healthcare legislation . . . the dupes, er, dopes, who backed this administration will be astonished!

Starting in 2011, (next year folks), your W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company. It does not matter if that's a private concern or governmental body of some sort.

If you're retired? So what... your gross will go up by the amount of insurance you get.

You will be required to pay taxes on a large sum of money that you have never seen. Take your tax form you just finished and see what $15,000 or $20,000 additional gross does to your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year.

For many, it also puts you into a new higher bracket so it's even worse.

This is how the government is going to buy insurance for the15% that don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases.

Not believing this??? Here is a research of the summaries.....

On page 25 of 29: TITLE IX REVENUE PROVISIONS- SUBTITLE A: REVENUE OFFSET PROVISIONS-(sec. 9001,
as modified by sec. 10901) Sec.9002 "requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee the aggregate cost of applicable employer sponsored group health coverage that is excludable from the employees gross income."
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I posted..

hillary 13.... and you know all this will happen in the future because...? Crystal ball?

Republicans always tell us how great things are going to be when they get into office.... and once elected, things go downhill. Fast.
Republicans always tell us how taxes will go up if the Democrats get into power and how terrible things will be if the Democrats win.
Historically, taxes have gone down for most Americans when the Dems are in charge. Obama's tax cuts 2009 and 2010 are examples.
Fear is all the Repubs have....Oooooo, be afraid, very, very afraid. Muslims, Mexicans, Socialists, Liberals, Progressives, taxes...all those things will take over unless we elect Republicans.
Bogey-men are all the Repubs have.
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I POSTED...

hillary.... you must get those viral rightwing emails. Is that your source for all your posts? You have destroyed what little credibility you have. Those viral emails are lies created and sent out to propagandize the gullible.

That stuff about "...your W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company. It does not matter if that's a private concern or governmental body of some sort." is a HOAX. And you fell for it. Your other opinions... are they based on those rightwingnut emails, too"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/hr3590.asp
Politifact gives it a "pants on fire"... a lie.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jun/
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/health-care-law-and-w-2-for
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HILLARY13 POSTED....

Bigmack

I have told you WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN UNLESS WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SET INTO MOTION IS HALTED....

The Tea party Candidates have replaced Republicans that went along with or did not fight against these Tax increases and Spending programs

Now we must get Candidates elected that will stop these increases and get us headed in the right direction again...

It will not be easy... Although I find that many of my liberal Friends are fiscal Conservatives...and Social Liberals....

In this election we must get the Economy Back into shape before we resume fighting over Social issues.
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HILLARY13 POSTED...
Big Mack:
Read the FULL snopes comments carefully and you will see what I posted is correct...

I would further ask you....Why could the IRS want the Value of your Health care Benefits reported on your W-2....Snoopes doesn't deny that that is going to happen...and Acknowledges that SOME will have to pay taxes on that additional amount reported....

SOME will turn into ALL ...
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I POSTED...
hillary 13... Not only have you been hoaxed... you persist in believing it! Amazing! You must believe that Obama is really a Kenyan Muslim. I read the FULL snopes entry, and it clearly says health care benefits will not be counted as income or taxed as such.

You people live in an alternate reality. Facts don't count, only the stories you pass around. Opinions are the only thing that counts... even when based on nothing.

Again, you are telling us what might happen in the future as if you know something us mere mortals don't.

From Politifact... "Not considered taxable income." They called "pants on fire" for your claim.

"Since the health care law actually continues the tax exemption on employer-sponsored insurance, why include a requirement that employers report the value of health insurance on the W-2? There are several reasons.

The new health insurance law will eventually penalize people who are not insured with a tax penalty. The W-2 reporting requirement will help the Internal Revenue Service verify that people have coverage, both for themselves and their dependents.

There's also a tax on the so-called "Cadillac" or "gold-plated" health insurance policies, which are policies that cost significantly more than the national average. The W-2 reporting will allow the IRS to more easily collect the tax. We should also emphasize that the Cadillac tax doesn't go into effect until 2018, and it will apply to health insurance plans that cost more than $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage, with some exceptions for people in high-risk categories. Most people will not be affected by the tax; analysts expect it to hit fewer than 20 percent of all policies.

The chain e-mail we looked at goes the extra mile to promote its deceptive claim that everyone will be taxed next year, however.

"Joan Pryde is the senior tax editor for the Kiplinger letters. Go to Kiplingers and read about 13 tax changes that could affect you. Number 3 is what I just told you about," the chain e-mail states. "Why am I sending you this? The same reason I hope you forward this to every single person in your address book. People have the right to know the truth because an election is coming in November."

We looked up the Kiplinger letter and couldn't help noticing that the article states the following: "A requirement that businesses include the value of the health care benefits they provide to employees on W-2s, beginning with W-2s for 2011. The amount reported is not considered taxable income."

Got that? "Not considered taxable income."

So the e-mail's own evidence refutes its premise."

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HILLARY13 POSTED....

Bigmack:

Snoops is a liberal leaning organization....In this case if you read the entire comments, they go through a lot of gyrations to blur the truth...without outright lying....

You are apparently blinded by your bias.

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I POSTED...

hilary13 Simply amazing! I give you three debunks of that BS post... that hoax... and you tell me that snopes is liberal! Look at the bottom of the snopes page, and you'll find three sources that they got it from. One is Fox News!

The "snopes is liberal" lie is yet another example of the email lies being sent around. Check out what UrbanLegends has to say about snopes..
http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/internet/a/snopes_exposed.h
Check out what factcheck.org says about snopes...
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/snopescom/
Politifact talks about this phenomenon at;
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/aug/24/

Or do you think all the debunking sites are just fronts for the Communist Conspiracy? Ever hear of cognitive dissonance? You've resolved it by simply ignoring evidence in order to continue believing.

When you folks get hold of something to believe in, you just don't let go, do you? Not even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

You live in an alternate reality!

Facts have a notorious liberal bias.
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HILLARY13 POSTED....

bigmack:
Your 3rd link was not on topic at all....
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I POSTED...
hilary13.. I give you three debunks.. then I give you backup to those three... and the best you've got is that my "third link is off topic"..

Actually, it is on topic... "PolitiFact and other news organizations have discredited many of the e-mails. No, Obama is not a Muslim, he didn't take the oath of office on a Koran and he does not want the national anthem to be I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing. A growing number of the e-mails now include a line that says, "I checked this out on Snopes and it's true," referring to the Web site that determines whether urban legends are accurate. That line is like a defense mechanism intended to reassure a skeptical reader. But most of the e-mails that include the line are still false. So if you see it, be skeptical.
As with most chain e-mails, we have no idea who wrote it, but it's been passed along by many people who haven't bothered to check out the facts."

I've been looking at your other posts. You make a lot of claims, and I have a life beyond this site, but a lot of your assertions are dodgy, too.

The inheritance tax posting talked about farmers losing their land because of estate taxes. The Congressional Budget office disagrees with you..."All but 27 farmers left enough liquid assets to pay taxes owed, the budget office found, although it hinted that the actual number might be zero. The study examined how much in cash, stocks and bonds these farmers left to pay estate taxes, but the report noted that no data existed on how much life insurance the farmers had put into trusts. Virtually all wealthy farmers own life insurance in trusts, say estate tax lawyers who specialize in working with farmers."

We'll just call that "disinformation" on your part.

People don't get a "tax bill" from an estate. The tax is taken out of the estate, and the remainder goes to the heirs.

Of course, all this talk about the "death tax" is just more "disinformation" anyway, since Estate Planners specialize in avoiding estate taxes.

I suspect or disbelieve every single thing you have posted. You have proven that you post rumors and untruths. I advise others to do the same.
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CONTRARYJIM POSTED...
Government takes on too many tasks, individuals and companies should do for themselves. People in government wish to grow their fiefdoms and spend to be able to spend more.

Government and those who live on entitlements are gluttons and like those who who bought too much house, don't know how to pay for the excess.
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I POSTED....

contraryjim... Government is the bad guy? And the corporations are the good guys?

Like W.R Grace, for example?... or BP?...or Goldman,Sachs... etc...etc...

Government is supposed to level the playing field a little, and they've been doing a lousy job. That's because Congress is on the corporate payroll.

Your statement is just opinion... how about a little fact
Like these...
Corporate taxes are down.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/09/our_dumb
CEO pay is up... waaaaay up. Even on companies that are failing. CEO pay has increased over 300% since 1990, while worker pay has increased 4%.. and productivity has gone up.
http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/webfeatures_snap
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Spending for corporate welfare programs outweighs
spending for low-income programs by more than
three to one: $167 billion to $51.7 billion.
Most social spending is in the form of
discretionary spending, which is scrutinized in
the annual budget negotiating process in
Congress; most corporate welfare programs are in
the form of tax expenditures, which go on and
on since they are not subject to annual review
by Congress.
http://www.eriposte.com/economy/tax/corporate_welfare.htm

You people live in an alternate reality... one in which Facts have little to do with your Opinion.
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HILLARY13 POSTED....

bIGMACK

It is not the job of Government to LEVEL the playing field...That would infer limiting one person to upgrade another....not the way the greatest nation on earth works

Never has been and never should be....

We all have the Opportunity to be Successful in this country, we are guaranteed the pursuit of Happiness but not Happiness..
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I POSTED...

Hillary 13...About a level playing field. Ask Theodore Roosevelt about it. It was part of his Square Deal. He was a Republican. Google is your friend.

The US Chamber of Commerce.. hardly a liberal group... wants "a level playing field for trade". http://www.uschamber.com/international/agenda/level-playing-

George W. Bush wanted that level playing field on trade, too...
http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/George_W__Bush_Free_Trade.h

From Wiki...
A level playing field is a concept about fairness, not that each player has an equal chance to succeed, but that they all play by the same set of rules. Although some may view "government interference" to slant the field, in reality the level playing field is created and guaranteed by the implementation of rules and regulations ... building codes, material specifications and zoning create a starting point/ a minimum standard --- a "level playing field".

Examples where governments have tried to create a 'level playing field':
Business... Every company within the same branch is obliged to pay the same percentage of tax over their annual income to the government every year.
Banking ... Every bank is in need of a banking licence to be allowed to sell banking products to consumers and retailers. You can not just start your own new bank without permission of the financial regulators within your state.
Car Industry... Every car manufacturer has to make sure that the car he puts on the market is "safe" to drive in. You can not sell cheap cars and make a lot of money without guaranteeing to consumers that the car is safe while being used on the road.

You lack basic knowledge of American Government....
From US Constitution online.... "Injustice, unfairness of laws and in trade, was of great concern to the people of 1787. People looked forward to a nation with a level playing field, where courts were established with uniformity and where trade within and outside the borders of the country would be fair and unmolested."

The term "level playing field" comes up all the time and is an established goal in this country. School-voucher supporters use it, gay marriage advocates use that term, too.

The ultra-conservative US Constitution Party says... "Given a level playing field, third parties can play a significant role in restoring our Constitutional Republic.."
http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=376

Sen Grassley... Republican... called for it on filibusters ".... Republicans want a level playing field with the Democrats... "
http://iowaindependent.com/14733/grassley-gop-must-use-filib

You are out of step with America. You need to educate yourself a bit before popping off in public.
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TINHATON POSTED....

One thing that is never discussed and yet, ever present...
is culture and by culture i mean the culture that has bread the current crop of donkeys...pelosi and reed both come from a state culture of nanny state failure...period..
mr. soetoro comes from a culture of affirmative action entitlement...it is no accident that the economy is so, unknown to them that the concept of running out of other peoples money is foreign...because they have never been asked to produce their own...while the news speaks of the down fall of the examples they sighted and followed...it still doesn't come home...they admit to lying about stovel ready...and we know they're lying about this...just look
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I POSTED....

tinhaton... Soetoro? You mean President Obama? The word you want is "bred", not "bread", and "stovel ready"?

Other than that, your posting is incoherent.

Translating... we think you don't like the "nanny state" and affirmative action and the Democrats.

Thanks for playing.
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TINHATON POSTED....
mac...so, let's try it this way, the man is a liar, with at least one alias, but, i guess you got that...my spelling is the product of twain, but, i guess you got that...as to cohesion my piles they are my business...democrats, shemocrats what i don't like is picking some one from a failed culture and giving them the chance to do it again...i don't wish to go too far a field but, the references to europe were a little vague i'll give you that...non the less...all that fine democratic socialism, cow potty, that was held up as a model for mr. soetoro's agenda is falling apart today...turn on a tv...or are you one of the boeing people trying to figure out how to pay for it??...
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TINHATON POSTED ABOUT THE T. ROOSEVELT REFERENCE I MADE EARLIER....

hey mac, gotta know is that the same tr that sold us down the river to jp morgan?..you know the morgan chase that bailed mr soetoro out?..you may not like my verse but, buddy you have got to read something...your not making rational points...what's the quote those who don't know history repeat it...i suggest you study jackson...the last revolutionary to serve...the one that got rid of the hamiltonians...that tr brought back...the situation never changes...only our reaction...tr and kennedy are probably the worst leaders we've had till now...
In a thread that's about perception, i gotta admit that while i'm not always the most tolerant of people...some of the ideologues exposing the class warfare and elitism...that at best defines the conflict with in themselves is kinda funny...here's a hint...if perception is reality...then the formal title for a any thumbs down in this context is what?...that's right denial...
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I POSTED.....

tinhaton. What are you talking about? You are incoherent. Are you merely confused, or are you trying to convince other people of things that aren't true?

TR took on Morgan and broke up his Northern Securities Trust. "in 1902, President Roosevelt shocked financiers on Wall Street with his decision to approve the government's lawsuit against Northern Securities, a large and recently merged western railroad company, for violating the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. J.P. Morgan, the financier who had arranged the merger and who had significant amounts of money invested in Northern Securities, took Roosevelt's decision as a personal insult. Many conservative Republicans in Congress and bankers on Wall Street attacked the President and Attorney General Philander Knox for the decision. The American people, one the other hand, loved Roosevelt for his boldness in the face of the trusts. To ensure the government's victory, Roosevelt also nominated Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., to replace Justice Horace Gray on the Supreme Court. As Chief Justice of the Massachusetts Supreme Court, Holmes had voted against industry and railroads in similar suits, making him the perfect choice from Roosevelt's perspective. In the end, the U.S. government won the suit, Northern Securities was dismantled into smaller companies, and President Roosevelt came to be known as the "Trustbuster.""
http://www.sparknotes.com/biography/troosevelt/section10.rht

If you are talking about the creation of the Federal Reserve, that took place in 1913. Roosevelt left the presidency in 1909.
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HILLARY13 POSTED...

Big Mack;

So the ideal is that we all play by the same Rules....I couldn't agree more....

That would, of curse, mean no preferential treatment for anyone including preferences people based on Race, Religion, Sexual orientation, gender or National Origin.

All of America would be a better place with the simple proposal you have Offered.......

Even you and I can work together ...On this sound principle you have proposed.

and to a post that DanaBiggs had made...

Dana Biggs:

If we are not the greatest nation on earth...WHO IS?....

If you can't come up with an answer of who is better, then we must be.

We would be wise to take a hard look at what the British are doing....It is really the only way out of this mess that we are in.
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I POSTED....

Hillary13... Then you are for gays in the military? Outstanding! Gay marriage? Wow.. you are progressive.

Women earn 77% of what men earn for similar jobs. So, you are for equal pay for equal work?... Maybe even an Equal Rights Amendment?

Blacks who had a four-year bachelor’s degree earned $46,502, or about 78 percent of the salary for comparably educated whites, so let's level that playing field.

Hispanics?....Those with high school diplomas earned about 83 cents for whites’ every dollar....Hispanics with bachelor’s degrees had an average salary of $44,696, amounting to roughly 75 cents for every dollar made by whites. Looks like there's some leveling to do there, too.

Sounds like you'd be for raising the inheritance tax, too, since Junior didn't really earn all that money... he was just a member of the "lucky egg club". Level Junior out a bit.

In the 1960's, CEOs used to make about 24 times what the average worker made. Now CEO's make 262% of what the average worker made. From 1990-2001 CEO pay rose 545%. If minimum wage had kept pace with that, in 2001, minimum wage would've been $25.50 an hour.

Kids with good schools start out with big advantages over kids who don't. Kids with comprehensive sex ed have lower premarital pregnancy and STD rates. The 1/4 of American kids who live in poverty have less chance of graduating high school, not to mention college.

Wow!

Sounds like we need a whole lot of leveling around here!

AND I ALSO POSTED

Hilary 13... You say we should take a look at Britain, and how they are handling austerity? Surely you don't want us to emulate a small island with few natural resources that lost it's Empire and is now existing hand to mouth? We're much bigger and stronger than that... I hope.

We may lose our Empire in the next few years, but we have reserves of agricultural power, a trained work force, some natural resources left. I don't think we're facing what Britain is facing. Yet.

You might read what the opposition in Britain is saying...
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-har

The workers in France and Germany will not take this as amicably as workers in the US. Those workers recognize Class War when they see it. The only difference there is that the workers will fight back.

I love my country. I've even killed for my country, and I want the best for my country, but we are not the best anymore... and most Americans recognize it.

Once the "loaded" words like "socialism" are removed from the equation, 92 percent of Americans would choose to live in a society with far less income disparity than the US, choosing Sweden's model over that of the US. http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/norton%20ariely%20in%20pre

The US now ranks lower than all other industrialized Western countries in areas of length and quality of life, infant mortality, school performance... especially in science. We're lowest in the developed world in social mobility.. that is, the ability to move up the class ladder.

We rank higher in other areas, though. We're first in crime, prisoners, divorce rate, teen birth... you get the picture...

We don't make anything anymore. Our corporations have offshored the jobs that made us great.

I could go on, but I get depressed thinking about how this country has fallen.

[pinboy3niner]

1. At half-way through, I see you've done a truly excellent job!

I'll check back to read the rest when I have time.

Well done, sir! :toast:

:yourock:

[w8liftinglady]

2. THANK YOU!I've been doing the same thing

while I have been recouperating...I'm so glad I'm not alone....