I saw a family of Muslims in the store today. Was I supposed to be afraid?

[proud2BlibKansan]

As I pulled into the parking lot, the news was on and they were reading the story about Juan Williams being fired from NPR. Not two minutes later, I was walking down the aisle in the store and two women and a small girl wearing burkas passed by me. My first thought was how nice it was to live in a diverse community. I can remember when seeing anyone who was not white was rare here.

Then I thought of Juan Gonzalez and wondered how he would react. I chuckled to myself when I realized this wasn't an airport so maybe he would not be afraid.

For many years now, there have been quite a few Muslims in the schools where I have taught. It never went through my mind that I should be afraid of them. After 9/11, I feared FOR them, knowing that those who feared them would make their lives as uncomfortable as possible.

These are such sad days in our once great country.

[slackmaster]

1. Not half as afraid as I was when I saw a Muslim woman driving an SUV and talking on a cell phone

:argh:

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. LOL!

[dddem]

40. Why were you afraid?

Because she was
A.) Talking on a cell phone
B.) Muslim
C.) A WOMAN DRIVER ?!?!!?!
:7

[Paladin]

66. Well Said, Slack. (n/t)

[babylonsister]

2. I agree about the sad days. I have nothing but sympathy

for any minority now and go out of my way to welcome anyone as best I can to counteract the crazies.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I'm sure you do

:hi:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Juan Williams?

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Oops. Thanks.

[derby378]

4. My only reaction...

...would be sadness at the thought of young girls being trained to wear burqas. Other than that, however, it's just another day in America.

[riderinthestorm]

46. +1. nt

[HuckleB]

5. According to Juana Juana, you should have been quaking in your boots!

[Terra Alta]

6. A woman in a burka and her child came through my line the other day.

I wasn't afraid at all. Had no reason to be. She is human, just as I am, and just trying to live her life as normally as possible.

As I was checking them out, I made small talk with her, and was very friendly. I live in a very red, somewhat racist part of the South and I'm sure there were people who were less than friendly to her. I hope I made her day.

[ck4829]

7. 2 Muslim women and a girl = Ducking for cover and wetting yourself

That's the conversion factor.

[applegrove]

8. I remember right after 9/11 one of the networks did an undercover story

on what it would be like to be a visible muslim person at ground zero. They followed two people with undercover camera. People were walking up to them and saying "Are you okay, is everybody treating you alright?". I cried and cried.

[HuckleB]

22. It's just amazing to see things go to bigot land nine years later.

Ugh.

:(

[Drale]

9. I would love to see

a muslim man walk up to glen beck and go BOO! see what happens.

[REP]

12. Why was a child wearing a burqa? I never see children wearing them; only adult women

Children are not required to wear it. Maybe they weren't Muslim.

[sufrommich]

17. Girls have to wear burqas when puberty starts. nt

[REP]

24. OP says "small girl" - under puberty, no burqa, hijab, or scarf required

Just sayin'

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I don't know. I didn't ask.

Lots of younger girls at school wear burkas.

[kestrel91316]

20. Burqa? Or perhaps it was hijab or chador?

[REP]

25. Burqas. Really. Not hijabs or niqabs or headscarfs, but burqas that cover from head to foot

Unbelievable. Really.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Lots of people keep asking you if you really mean Burkas?

Full covering, head to toe? You have 'lots' of students wearing burkas? Really surprising, just really, really surprising.

[uppityperson]

56. You seriously have a lot of younger girls in burkas? How young? What grades?

I do not think you really mean burkas, perhaps simply head scarves? I hate to see your thread end up missing your point of "omg muslims!" by hyperbole and inaccuracies such as this. However, claiming "lots of young girls at school wear burkas" can be taken to show ignorance and perpetuation of stereotypes also as burkas aren't worn, typically, until puberty.

[Liquorice]

29. How would you be able to tell the age of a woman wearing a burqa?? nt

[Gin]

52. halloween costume?

[Yeahyeah]

13. They coulda blowed you up.Yor mighty lucky to get out there alive.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

14. I'm more afraid when I see some asshole walking into a polling station....

....with a Teabagger shirt on.

[DirkGently]

15. Only if they were dressed like Tea Partiers.

[The Straight Story]

16. I saw some christians on DU today, was I supposed to think they all were bigots

and RW'ers, hated gays, etc and so on?

Bigotry and bias are two way streets. I have seen many folks post something positive about some church which did something nice, only to hear how evil those people really are.

Juan Williams is the RW equivalent of some here that use the same broad brush. Yet those same people rationalize their words while condemning his.

At least be consistent.

[kwenu]

18. Who the hell is Juan Gonzalez?

You mean Juan Williams. Anyway, I remember jogging on a trail near the lake. Saw a muslim family, the mother was wearing a burka in 95 degree weather. The father and son were wearing shorts. I thought..how utterly ridiculous, but...whatever. No one is perfect and free from personal prejudices and if they say they are I tend to believe they are lying. Knowing your faults is the key to becoming a better person. Acting like you have none just proves ignorance.

[emilyg]

32. +1

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. Elian Gonzalez's father:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elian_Gonzalez_affair

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. They were wearing "Burkas"..? Really? Are you sure?

They were dressed like this?!?;



A fucking BURQA?!?






So you are asking that your readers believe that YOU....."Proud2BlibKansan"...IN FUCKING KANSAS, NO LESS saw a an entire family wearing a dress/covering that utterly and completely shielded them?




Sorry, but this just S C R E A M S hyperbole.


Honestly, were those three women really wearing "Burkas"?




Or were they simply wearing the Hijab?








There is a HUGE difference, you know.

Edited for structure.

[REP]

26. She claims a CHILD was wearing a burqa

Yeah.

[Goblinmonger]

49. There are no muslims in Kansas?

Much less a family of them? Or there aren't any orthodox muslims (not sure that's the right word, but you get my point) in Kansas? Believe it or not, the flyover states aren't just all white people.

[a la izquierda]

50. I live in Oklahoma...

and I was in the store and a woman was wearing a full burqa. FULL ON. And I don't believe she was the same woman who wears one on campus, because she had a different man with her. That'd be two different women wearing burqas in my town in Oklahoma.
I know the difference, I don't see why this is so unbelievable to people on DU.

[riderinthestorm]

57. Yup, 40 miles west of Chicago and there are more than a few in full niqab

at the local community college library. While I assume some of the wearers are teens at the college, there are at least two women with children in tow (who are similarly dressed) who I've also seen there.

The wearing of burqa and niqab is a growing movement in the US and abroad. Egypt has moved to ban the burqa and niqab because they have taken on a politicized connotation, and as they have proliferated so has the extremism (these garments are not religious).

[uppityperson]

60. Because usually "small girl"s don't wear burkas.

[a la izquierda]

61. Well, yeah, I guess that's true enough...

and that seems to be what some people are irritated by.
But others on the thread seemed stunned that a woman in-gasp- Kansas would be able to wear a burqa.

[uppityperson]

62. I saw a couple women wearing chador (closest I can figure) at hot spring yrs ago, men were in swim

trunks. It looked rather like an abaya with a head piece that wasn't a scarf but a hood, fitted around the face. I'm not sure the exact name. The guys were in swim trunks, busy looking at the rest of us in swim suits also.

They were Iranian, talked with them a bit.

My only complaint was the young kid bit. Why add hyperbole to a story when it ends up distracting from the message? I have at times not worn my salwar kameez, or been careful as to where, since it got weird looks. I saw one in a thrift store yesterday (salwar kameez), was made of stiff cloth that wouldn't be comfortable to wear, though it looked nice. Then I noticed it was in the halloween costume section.

Why can't people just be tolerant of differences of others? Why does it so often deteriorate to "us vs them"?

[Sabriel]

23. Did they have a lot of coupons?

That would scare me. Nothing slows downs a check-out line like a bunch of coupons.

Or maybe they had 22 items in the 20-items-or-less line? Frightening.

(Juan's an idiot. I think we all knew that before he made that statement, so it's not a surprise.)

[CTyankee]

27. oh,good lord!I have a whole room full of Muslims in my ESOL

class! This guy must be so out of touch he has no idea what a LOT of Americans are out doing with Muslims in their communities. Juan W must be the most ignorant guy in this country!

[Turborama]

28. Good analysis.

Are you sure they were wearing burkas, though?



Or were they wearing hijabs?

[riderinthestorm]

45. Actually your top picture shows the women in niqab, not burqas. nt

[Turborama]

51. Thanks for that clarification

I just went to check out what the difference is and found this graphic illustration...

[Bigmack]

30. You sure they weren't nuns?.....

After an Catholic elementary school education with Sister Mary Steel Ruler (My knuckles still ache in damp weather), I get nervous when I see those Penguins.

Burka/habit... you can't trust them people!

[kenny blankenship]

31. Half the time I go to my local grocery store I'm checked out by a woman in a headscarf

To be honest, I can't tell exactly where she's from - someplace very Muslin though - Somalia, Pakistan, that much is clear from the nametags and complexions. Every time this happens to me, I'm petrified that she and the others are going to hijack the store and fly it to Cuba. I can't go to Cuba, I left all the lights on in my place!

[A HERETIC I AM]

34. Hijacking to Cuba is Soooo 1970's...

Nowadays they hijack to Dearborn.

Land at City Airport and head to Michigan Avenue.

All the best Shawarma is on Michigan Ave.

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. I'm super frightened. I work for a Muslim.

:scared:

[Hannah Bell]

35. how did you know they were muslims?

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Precisely the point, my dear

:)

[Bragi]

38. Why celebrate a display of oppression and subservience?

I saw a Saudi-style niqab-clad woman in a store last week, accompanied, of course, by a young son or other male relative.

From my reading, I know that if she went out alone, even dressed in that Saudi-inspired reactionary garb, she would be a disgrace to the honour of her family, and could be killed with impunity by her male relatives for this under the Wahhabist interpretation of sharia law.

(Note: This is an undeniable fact, and "honour killings" do happen.)

Unlike those here who see such people as "just trying to live her life as normally as possible" and who preach tolerance towards this reactionary Islamic group, I am quite uncomfortable with and saddened by public displays of oppression and gender inequality of this sort.

And I feel great sadness for the women who are victims of this kind of religious and cultural oppression, however deeply culturally programmed they may be to accept it as their fate.

On the other hand, I also know that these sad women and their reactionary families are not at all typical of Muslim women as whole, who do not ascribe to the retrograde Wahhabist dictates, and who live in families who are not stuck in the 12th century.

Personally, I don't think that displays of reactionary Wahhabism are something that should be applauded by anyone who cares about gender equality.

I know that it used to be that feeling this way was pretty well accepted mainstream thinking in the West, but I know now that expressing discomfort and sadness about women victims of Wahhabism is now likely to result in accusations being hurled that the speaker is a racist, bigot, etc. etc. (In current times, expressing discomfort with displays of subservience could even get me fired at NPR, apparently.)

So I will close by simply declaring up front that I'm neither a racist or a bigot, never have been or will be, and that I'm not intimidated by those who might be quick to defend reactionary, Saudi-inspired and promoted Wahhabism without even apparently understanding the horrific oppression of women that they are defending.

[KurtNYC]

39. was they like buying mustard ?

how do you know it was not like for making mustard gas... and did they get BLTs ?

respeck

[Iggo]

41. If you weren't afraid, then NPR is not Nixon...

...or something.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. Do you really see women and girls in actual full burkas often?

I've lived near mosques and traveled the world, a full Burka is a very rare thing to see in Islamdom, actually, and even more rare in the US areas with lots of Muslims. Most Muslim women do not wear the burka. So seeing that garment is like seeing the Hasidim or a nun, you just think, man, these are some Fundie religious types, with full costumes.
Just to be clear, the Burka means to me things far more specific than 'muslim' because that garment is much more a reflection of culture than of faith, as it is not a requirement of Islam itself.

[Bragi]

44. I see them rarely, but more often in recent times

I used to never see eyes-only or full-face veilings, but I'd say I may see 1 or 2 women each week now wearing them.

I know that this these Saudi-Wahhabists are a very tiny minority of Muslims generally, and in my city.

However, in all honesty (which I find one has to be increasingly careful about on this topic) they creep me out.

I see their garb (which I understand is cultural, not religious) as a symbol and tool of the extreme oppression and subservience of women that is part of Wahhabist culture.

[RealisticDem44]

47. I have Muslim friends. They are great people.

And like you, I sometimes fear FOR them.

Sad days indeed.

[KamaAina]

48. What were you doing at the terrorist supply store, anyway?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Gin]

54. burqas represent oppression of women....I am not afraid of the clothing..just

disgusted by what it represents....it is a step backwards for all females...here and abroad. (IMO)

[TrogL]

53. My boss is Muslim

Now what?

I found out by accident. He hadn't said a word about it.

[Supersedeas]

55. only if you are talking about it while on the O'Reilly Factor

[HipChick]

58. My co-worker is a muslim...I would have had no idea if he hadn't told me

[onager]

63. The Muslims seem just as confused as the rest of us...

From 2005-2009 I lived in Alexandria, Egypt. Before that I lived for 2 years in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

In Egypt, my daily commute took me thru a bunch of small farm villages in the Nile Delta. Since we went thru there twice a day and often stopped in stores, etc., I got to know some of the families.

I noticed that I would often see young girls out playing like any little kid one day, and the next day see the same girl wearing the head-scarf (hijab) and behaving a lot more sedately and "grown-up."

Usually I had 3 or 4 Egyptian co-workers in the car with me, so one day I just asked: "How old are girls when they start wearing the hijab?"

The answer I got: "It depends on the girl. It's up to her."

One guy said that his sister wanted to put on he head-scarf when she was 10, and his parents tried to talk her out of it. They thought she was too young but she insisted and they gave in.

Now...do I believe it's ALWAYS up to the girl? Not for a second.

Especially in places like those small farm villages. It's just like the U.S. - those places are a lot more conservative than the cities. And given the generally very strict patriarchalism of Islam, I just can't believe the decision is always left up to the girl. But that is the answer I got.

As someone upthread noted, the hijab/niqab is being politicized in Egypt. We can thank the Muslim Brotherhood for that - they've been trying to turn Egypt into a theocracy since 1926, and have made alarming political gains since 2005.

Those decisions on banning the hijab (e.g., for women appearing on TV) came from the Egyptian Minister of Culture, Farouk Hosni. He's pretty much the Mubarak govt's point man for pissing off the Muslim Brotherhood. And he was doing an admirable job of that when I lived there.

I don't know who got more death threats - Farouk Hosni or Souad Saleh. Saleh is a female sharia legal expert at Al-Azhar University. She insists that the full body covering is not even Islamic, but a stupid practice inherited from the Persian royal families.

Oh...things were a lot different in Saudi Arabia. The vast majority of local females were fully covered. Most of the women wearing just a head-scarf there were foreign expats, who also dressed "modestly" to avoid hassles with the Religious Police. One exception - the Diplo-Brats from the French Consulate, who used to walk thru the souk (marketplace) on Thursdays wearing stuff like crop-tops and tight shorts. But they had bodyguards.

[datasuspect]

64. i see enough muslims everyday

to use "As-Salamu Alaykum" as a daily greeting.

[hedgehog]

65. I saw some muslin at the fabric store...does that count?