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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:02 PM
Original message
Arne supports having flawed NYC test scores published with teachers' names and ratings.
Edited on Thu Oct-21-10 10:17 PM by madfloridian
I find it intolerable how thoughtless he is toward teachers in public schools.

He is buying into the "bad" teacher mantra. That is the theory that everything can be blamed on teachers, and they had better straighten up fast. He also agreed with publishing the test scores with names in the Los Angeles Times.

That is as much as saying that parents and students are off the hook for any accountability for their actions. I don't remember a time when teachers' evaluations were not treated with respect and kept private between them and their administrators. This is really like a slap in the face to the unions who work on the contracts and the teachers who trusted the system.

I will never say that one thing would turn me from the party. It sounds so petty to say it. This is making me bitter, though.

Just as the city agrees to hold off on publishing the names as the teachers sue, Arne Duncan pops his head out and says he approves of it.

Arne Duncan sides with city in debate over teacher ratings

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan is throwing his support behind Chancellor Joel Klein’s decision to release individual teacher’s effectiveness ratings to the press.

Just before the city and union agreed to postpone any release of teachers’ ratings that included their names, Duncan sent a statement to reporters in which he seemed to take the city’s side.

“I give New York credit for sharing this information with teachers so they can improve and get better,” he said.

Duncan was more elliptical in suggesting whether other school districts should follow New York’s lead and release teacher effectiveness data.


He has made it clear previously that he thinks other districts should publish such. He has no concern or regard that this has been a private matter.

The other night someone posted here asking me what were my credentials for criticizing Arne. That person said I was not speaking enough to statistics. She was right. I speak for the children and teachers themselves, and statistics are not the most important thing involved in in-depth learning.

As to my credentials, I was an educator for decades. Arne is not one, never has been one. He speaks for the corporate world, and he is not above breaking union deals already done.

You know what is more appalling? Those test scores have come under great scrutiny now. It appears that they may have been "adjusted" to make the administration of Bloomberg and Klein look successful

Then this year when they "recalibrated" the scoring system because too many were doing well.....then there were massive failures.

So all those glowing school test results were a fraud, after all.

For years, Mayor Bloomberg, Schools Chancellor Joel Klein and top education officials in Albany touted big jumps in math and reading scores statewide - and skyrocketing results among New York City's pupils. The scores, they said, were proof that mayoral control and Klein's data-driven version of school reform had succeeded.

Schools were winning the "civil rights battle of our time," the chancellor claimed, by closing the racial "achievement gap."

.."Now, state officials have revealed a startling nosedive in test scores. Admitting that results from previous years had been inflated, the state announced tougher standards this year - resulting in the lower scores. Thousands of parents who had been told their children were at grade level are suddenly learning they aren't.


Oh, but it appears our Secretary of Education thinks the scores are reliable enough to use to print teachers' names in the newspaper! How about that?

Many good teachers were hurt when the Los Angeles Times printed the names and scores of 6000 teachers. Test scores don't reveal the teacher's true worth.

And neither would the rating that NYC wanted to publish. The factors that go into making a child who he or she is...home life, parents, innate ability, environment, poverty level....will not show up in that newspaper.

Diane Ravitch gave voice to one of the L. A. teachers who was labeled as not so successful a teacher, yet had received a great performance rating from his superiors. He taught at a challenging school, yet he never missed a day. He took his life shortly after the scores were published.

Last week, I was in Los Angeles. I spoke to L.A. teachers, who were shamed by the Los Angeles Times' disgraceful release of test-score data and ratings of 6,000 elementary teachers as more or less effective. I had previously believed that such ratings (value-added assessment) might be used cautiously by supervisors as one of multiple measures to evaluate teacher performance.

The L.A. Times persuaded me that the numerical scores—with all their caveats and flaws—would drown out every other measure. And, in fact, the L.A. Times database contained only one measure, based on test scores. And so I concluded that value-added assessment should not be used at all. Never. It has a wide margin of error. It is unstable. A teacher who is highly effective one year may get a different rating the next year depending on which students are assigned to his or her class. Ratings may differ if the tests differ. To the extent it is used, it will narrow the curriculum and promote teaching to tests. Teachers will be mislabeled and stigmatized. Many factors that influence student scores will not be counted at all.

..."It's worth noting, however, that Los Angeles Deputy Schools Superintendent John Deasy said that Mr. Ruelas had a "great performance review" from his supervisors, but Mr. Deasy couldn't release the personnel records because they are confidential. So only the test scores were released to the media, not the laudatory reviews by professionals who observed his work.


Now NYC wants to release test scores and ratings, with years of test scores open to question for reliability. The ratings were supposed to be private personnel information.

The only people who can stop this lack of respect for and degradation of teachers would be the guys at the top of the ladder at the DOE and WH....and they are encouraging it.

I find that hard to tolerate.







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Reader Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. I really hate this man.
I know it's not right—to hate someone you've never met—but what he is doing to teachers and public schools is evil.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's painful.
I did not expect it.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Slightly off topic
but did you hear the director of Waiting for Superman on the Stephanie Miller show this am? He bashed teachers, unions, and schools with no supporting facts and was not challenged on anything he said. This on a progressive show. I was so disappointed in Stephanie.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. There will be no public disagreement.
I am not surprised really, but disappointed. Not a single Democratic leader is aware of the harm being done right now.

I am surprised she would not call him on stuff, though. I would have expected it of her.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
71. "Not a single Democratic leader is aware"...
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 04:05 PM by awoke_in_2003
is it a case of not being aware, or not really caring? I know which way I am leaning.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Fetal Progressives.
Their leader has decreed that black is white so now we have to switch over and support ronald reagan's education plan.

Were this a republican president pushing this, there wouldn't be a single supporter here on DU or on what passes for progressive news shows. The number of Democrats that are supporting the president in this and attacking unions and teachers exposes a dark underbelly of the party. Some here are just as bad as the republicans when it comes to party only, principles not considered.
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offog Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
57. Another example of teacher-bashing.
When kids don't do well in school, it's usually because of things going on at home, not because of "bad teachers." I can't believe the American attitude towards teachers. Too many people, including some people here, just think that teachers are schmucks who didn't have the right stuff to get into law, business or medical school. I am serious!

Some years back I read an article by Frank Herbert, who wrote great science fiction but had scary social Darwinist views. In this article, he rants about what a bunch of losers public school teachers are; they're just lazy gormless people who are looking for a well-paid sinecure. If that's a mainstream viewpoint, no wonder American teachers get treated so crappy.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #57
68. Uh
Were you replying to my post? What is the connection?
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. Why did you not expect the NYC DOE to comply with the First Amendment?
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 09:08 AM by msanthrope
Seriously....

They have a FOIL request. They dragged their feet long enough to give the union time to file a TRO. Hearings are next month.

Do you really want a member of the President's cabinet to support a prior restraint on the press????

I hate to let facts get in the way of a perfectly good Obama-bash, but why didn't your OP mention the First Amendment issue?

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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. thanks, mad, for keeping us informed on this topic.
Without your updates, many would have no idea what is happening here.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. k & r
Words cannot express how I despise this man. He's a general for the foot soldiers of the Chamber of Commerce who want to destroy the last great union. They can't wait to rip us all apart and feast on the carcass of public funding.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. Yes, they, the neo-libs-cons the New World Order crowd
hate unions. You have only to see what they have done to the World's economy and what they are NOW trying to do to make the working class pay for their theft. 'Austerity' programs for the working class, for them? Big Bonuses.

They are trying to destroy the unions in Europe also. The head of the EU warning leaders 'NOT to cave in to their people's demands'!! They HATE Democracy.

Arne Duncan is so wrong for education in so many ways it is hard to express the anger I feel that he is even allowed near our Education system.

But, I do think all of this will eventually backfire, as is happening in Europe. Their grand scheme to take over the world, maybe be about to fall apart. And it is worldwide. They are selling OUR education system to foreign countries for profit. Hiring foreign teachers with public funds.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is going to backfire on Obama
I'm really dreading 2012. But I just can't support him at this point.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Is hurting Democrats now. I had dinner
with several of those teachers who worked with me during the elections two years ago. Only one was sure they could support Obama again. Most of us thought we would probably hold our noses and vote Democratic, but not one has done any volunteering this time. This from a group who has turned out regularly.

You can get the votes of lifelong Democrats, but when you beat them over and over, you shouldn't expect them to cheer you and be excited about your campaign. The arne and rahm regime has been the most demoralizing two years of a Democratic presidency ever.
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zenprole Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. Lesson Plan
Arne Duncan continues to attack and betray people who have every right to expect his support.

How is this different from his boss' M.O.? Hello? Is this microphone on?

I also hear Duncan is re-tooling the three R's into widespread foreclosure, destroying public schools, and throwing gays under the bus. (OK, so it doesn't roll off the tongue as easily...)

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. He's supporting the First Amendment--these are press FOIL requests.
Are we now supposed to forget that the press has a right to obtain certain information, under FOIL?

Should we not expect the members of the President's cabinet to support the law?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. knr
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Reader Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. Morning kick
For the 4am crowd.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. Published flawed test scores would subject New York City to litigation in two ways:
1. If a teacher is fired as a direct result of those flawed scores, the teacher and his/her union could sue for wrongful termination,

and/or

2. the teacher could sue for defamation. Such an evaluation would limit that teacher's ability to be hired in the future due to the damage to his/her reputation.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Really? Explain how lawful compliance with FOIL would lead to any of the suits you mention. n/t
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. you need to take the word "lawful" out of your question n/t
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Tell us, what is 'unlawful' about the FOIL request?
Specifically.

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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Who is "us" ? -- I just see you posting the same thing 5 times in a
thread with 20 responses.

There are lawful and unlawful disclosures as defined by FOIL:

"Records or portions thereof which are prohibited from disclosure pursuant to FOIL will be redacted or omitted; the requestor will be notified of the reason(s) for the redaction(s) and of the procedures to appeal to the Commissioner of Education. "

http://www.oms.nysed.gov/foil/

sometimes facts are inconvenient.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. It would be great if you gave some facts--how are these disclosures unlawful? n/t
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. If the method by which the findings are calculated, there's the problem of
reliable data.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. But you still aren't explaining how that leads to liability on anyone's part--
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 09:42 AM by msanthrope
This is a FOIL request for data.

If the court orders the BOE to release the data, how does that lead to any of the scenarios you describe, or any actual legal liability?

FYI--you remember all those threats about how LA teachers ought to file defamation suits???? Have you seen any filed?

Further, if you say there is an issue of reliability, what does that have to do with the First Amendment? Faulty data, and reliable data, are subject to the same disclosure rules.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. If the results are suspect and unreliable, and the particular score leads to
the discharge of a teacher, and that permanent record prevents that discharged teacher from finding new employment, it has affected his/her professional reputation, that teacher has suffered an economic harm from the damage to his/her reputation, and therefore, a case for defamation.

If the results were entirely provable, that the scores accurately reflected the skills of the teacher, then there would be no issue.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. How would the results lead to a discharge? In NYC? Home of the Rubber Room?
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 10:43 AM by msanthrope
I think you must be joking....


Progress Slow in City Goal to Fire Bad Teachers
By JENNIFER MEDINA
Published: February 23, 2010

The Bloomberg administration has made getting rid of inadequate teachers a linchpin of its efforts to improve city schools. But in the two years since the Education Department began an intensive effort to root out such teachers from the more than 55,000 who have tenure, officials have managed to fire only three for incompetence.

Ten others whom the department charged with incompetence settled their cases by resigning or retiring, and nine agreed to pay fines of a few thousand dollars or take classes, or both, so they could keep their jobs. One teacher lost his job before his case was decided, after the department called immigration officials and his visa was revoked. The cases of more than 50 others are awaiting arbitration.

Lawyers for the department said an additional 418 teachers had left the system after finding out that they could face charges of incompetence. Because no formal charges were brought in these cases, the number is hard to corroborate; officials from the teachers’ union said they doubted it was that high.

Ridding schools of subpar teachers has become one of the signature issues of national education reformers, but the results in New York City show that, as is true in many school systems around the country, the process is not easy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/education/24teachers.html?_r=1

You might want to read the rest of the article--in NYC, you have to give an incompetent teacher MORE training before you can attempt to dismiss....
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
65. They got rid of the rubber rooms
You need to keep up.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #31
40. none filed because the "ratings" published weren't part of school personnel files, but a bill gates-
funded rating devised by a rand associate.

apparently it's free speech if rich people invent phony ratings systems to slang public employees by name.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. Would they publish doctor names w/how many patients died, or lawyers' w/how many cases they lost??
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 06:52 AM by demodonkey

And people wonder why we can't get better teachers in this country.

:grr:


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offog Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
59. Damn good argument, demodonkey!
"Would they publish doctor names w/how many patients died, or lawyers' w/how many cases they lost??
And people wonder why we can't get better teachers in this country."

No one would dare treat doctors or lawyers the way teachers get treated.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. he did`t improve the chicago schools and....
he`s not going to improve the nations schools.

it`s going to be really hard to vote for obama the next time around.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. This is a VERY misleading OP!!!! Should NYC schools not comply with FOIL requests from the press?
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 08:42 AM by msanthrope
Unsurprisingly, this OP has FAILED to mention that the Department of Education in NYC was served with FOIL requests from the NY press.

The DOE said they would comply with the legal requests, UNLESS the union got a judge to BLOCK the FOILs.

So that's what the teacher's union did. The State Supreme Court issued a TRO, with hearings in November....

Arne Duncan is CORRECT to support the First Amendment!!!!

He is CORRECT to advocate that the DOE follow the FOIL laws!!!


And I find it extremely MISLEADING that this OP has FAILED to give the facts in this case.



"The city’s teachers union filed suit this morning, asking the State Supreme Court to bar the city from releasing 12,000 teachers’ effectiveness scores with their names included.

Department of Education officials said yesterday that they planned to send the teacher ratings to reporters as soon as this Friday, unless the union’s suit stops them. Several news organizations filed Freedom of Information Law requests for the data, and city officials said they were responding to these requests.

SNIP

Underpinning the United Federation of Teachers’ lawsuit is the claim that releasing teachers’ ratings with their names included is an unlawful invasion of privacy.

“Teachers will be exposed to harassment on a personal and professional level from parents unhappy with the contents of the TDRs,” the suit states. “Such harassment could include demands for termination, discipline, and transfer of children out of teachers’ classrooms, as well as threats to the persons of individual teachers.”

http://gothamschools.org/2010/10/21/union-files-suit-to-stop-release-of-individual-teacher-ratings/
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
41. .
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 11:41 AM by Hannah Bell
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
48. hmm...
I have to wonder if you are stomping your widdle feets as you virulently protest the validity of this OP.

Why don't YOU present a valid confirmation that the inimitable Arne Duncan (and, by association, his inimitable leader) is pursuing an effective course of action to improve public education? Can you find ANY data to assuage madfloridian's concerns about this administration's bizarre and misleading targeting of 'bad teachers' and 'villainous unions' as the 'threat du jour' to our system of public education? Is there ANYTHING you can bring to the table that contradicts madfloridian's extensive research regarding this administration's egregious mishandling of education reform?

Crickets...



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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. Yes, let's put people in danger by releasing personal info
who else made lists of people they didn't like and wanted to punish. Anyone take a guess?
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. So how do you balance the First Amendment right of the press, who did the FOIL requests?
They are the ones requesting the info--and the DOE must comply.

Now, there's a stay in effect, but if the DOE is ordered to release the info to the press, should they not comply?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. rrrrright...let's use the press to single out teachers
... don't even bother.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. The press filed the FOILs--not Arne Duncan, not President Obama, not
the DOE, and not anyone else--

The press.

So, are we now to dismiss the First Amendment?


But really, what bothers me is that the OP should have mentioned that this is underlying issue--but why allow facts to cloud a good Obama bash?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Singling out teachers by using the media
you think the media has that right? To publicly punish teachers? That's exactly what you support here, and it has NOTHING to do with the 1st Amendment.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I think the media has the right to certain information about public employees. Cops, garbagemen,
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 09:39 AM by msanthrope
firemen, teachers...

If there are stats kept on job effectiveness, then yes.

It's what the First Amendment is all about--there's no right to be a public employee, and one chooses it.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. What if the stats are proven to be unreliable?
If they're publishing data that they know is unreliable, isn't that defamation?

The truth is, you have an axe to grind with teachers. If you really cared about education, you wouldn't be attacking teachers and their representatives, you would be looking at underlying issues like poverty, political maneuvering, and corporate takeover. You have no answers and no credibility.
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offog Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. I agree with Catshrink ....
" ... The truth is, you have an axe to grind with teachers. ..."

msanthrope tries to hide his hatred of teachers with "legal" arguments. It reminds me of an experience I had about a year ago. I had a conversation with a mother who said all kinds of grumpy things about teachers' benefits, and then flat-out denied that she resented teachers.

I do worry about teacher's personal safety. Hockey parents have been known to be abusive and sometimes violent towards coaches and refs at their kids' games. How do you think people like that will react when a specific teacher is seen as jeopardizing little Johnny's chances of getting into college? Someone's gonna get beat up or shot.

Teachers are an easy target because they get little respect, and because there are more parents than teachers. A lot of parents probably don't want to admit that their kids are having trouble at school because of trouble at home, and it's human nature to look for someone outside to blame.
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callous taoboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Thank you Catshrink and offog. I was about to suggest
that this asshole msanthrope go get fucked 5 ways to Sunday. But you two were way more diplomatic.
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
32. What's far more damaging to education
than a poor teacher is a two-bit corporate hack with no experience in education serving as the DOE hedge funk punk for vulture capitalists.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. +1
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. .
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
37. This is another perfect illustration...
...of "accountability" for the little guys, and a total lack of same for the ruling elites.

In this instance, it is teachers who must take on the entire accountability burden for the test scores of the children they are teaching. And the burden is heavy indeed, where a few percentage points one way or the other can mean the difference between being deemed "effective" or "non-effective". The children are subjected to an educational system where teaching is all geared towards the high-stakes testing, and teachers are subjected to public shaming if they don't measure up.

On the other side of the fence, we have the elitists who are pushing for "charter" schools, a Trojan horse for privatization of the educational system. These people manipulate scores, eject children who will not help them by performing well on the tests, misrepresent results, or simply change the rules when they are not happy with the results of the testing. They are lauded as heroes, and continue to tighten the noose on public education, teachers, and most of all on teachers' unions which they hate with a passion.

Yes, it is all very transparent to those of us who are paying attention. This is how the elites operate. The rules are for you and me, but not for them. Those who make the rules are free to break the rules, or change the rules at will, while the little guys must always obey the hallowed rules or be punished severely. Meanwhile they pursue their hidden agendas ruthlessly.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
38. Someone just reminded me of this interview with Arne by a teacher.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/21

He gives his non-answers over and over.

But the summation by the teacher is very good.

"Parents: Don't let Arne close your child's school. If the federal government can bail out the banks and find the money to bomb children in Afghanistan, then we know there is enough money to build a world-class education system in your neighborhood. Demonstrate and speak out for the funding your school deserves rather than let it be shut down or privatized.

Students: You are not a number generated by a Scantron machine.
You are a passionate, creative young person who can change the world. Refuse to be categorized solely by a test score and demand an education that speaks to who you are and what is important to your community.

Teachers: Unions brought us the weekend. They are indispensable, don't let Arne bust your union. Fight to make your union stronger. Replicate the success of the Caucus of Rank-and-File Educators in Chicago--the reform caucus newly elected to run the Chicago Teachers Union--with its vision of social justice education and social movement unionism in unflinching opposition to those who would seek to profit off of the public schools."
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. Excellent! nt
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erodriguez Donating Member (532 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
39. What happens to a former teacher who is no longer working but gets her name and score published?
Or what if the evaluation is published and in the future the teacher decides that teaching is not for her?

I'm thinking that you may be haunted by this score.

Lets say you suck as a math teacher, but are good at accounting. If you are applying to an accounting job, that potential employer can always look up your record as a teacher. If you had a poor evaluation, that could potentially dissuade the employer from giving you that job.



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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Everything you write is true. And completely legal.
An employer can refuse to hire you because they don't like your Facebook postings.

Taking a job as a public employee is a choice. It's not always a good one.

think about it this way---

I am hiring for a security firm. I have a cop who left the force after 8 years...and I wonder why. Let's say I am able to access public records and find out that the cop had several complaints against him. Don't I have a right as an employer to refuse to hire this person???? Maybe I don't want a person with a bad record working for me. The cop chose to become a cop.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. hmm...
You are like a little boy standing next to a leaking dike. There's a deluge coming through the dike right behind you, but you keep pointing to a tiny little dribble and warning about the flood the wee leak is about to cause.

Pathetic, really.
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erodriguez Donating Member (532 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Lol that guy is my ignore list
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Mine, too.
But I gather that person doesn't like my post at all.
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erodriguez Donating Member (532 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. I briefly took him off to see what he was speaking of.
trollbaggery!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Heh heh
I can't see the remark before yours, and your very colorful description makes me thankful I can't. :evilgrin:
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. Well,
have you noticed that in EACH instance where I adjure him to substantiate his assertions (as I'm sure you know, this has happened on a few of your other OPs), he makes no response at all?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
64. LOL Great call!!
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Bwahahahahaha!!!
I want that bumper sticker!
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patty2828 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
43. Duncan needs to go
I am for a letter writing campaign to get Arne Duncan and his witch hunt tactics fired. He insists on sending teachers running through the streets naked so that public humiliation will force them to work harder.

I would hope that an attorney would get creative and apply this tactic to the FERPA law. We are not allowed to publish student scores so why are we allowed to publish teachers classroom scores......classrooms are made up of students.

I am rambling here, but most likely the scores will point out what they typically do: the vanilla suburb schools will do well, the schools who completely teach to the test will do well, and no one will be informed of anything that actually goes on in the real classroom. Oue teachers deserve better!!!!!

Shame on you Duncan! Let's send you into the streets naked!
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cjbgreen Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. I HATE TO SAY THIS, no
I hate thinking this but it is hard to ignore the facts, I think public education was traded by Rahm for big corporate donations. Cuomo supports the same kind of reform as Duncan. Real educators (scholars and practitioners) such as Larry Cuban and Diane Ravitch are clear that these "corporate reform" efforts hurt children and schools. I think it is pretty telling when you hear Murdock praise Michelle Rhee (the very public face of corporate reform) and you see the list of Republican Governors who say they want to hire Michelle Rhee.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. looks like that, yes.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Rahm or Obama? And they used the kids from "Waiting for Superman"
for a White House photo op to promote this campaign against American schools. What is the term for when the government and corporations work together to screw the public?
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erodriguez Donating Member (532 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
55. The unintended consequences of these types of measures
From Mr. Talk:



After the DOE decided to ignore their agreement with the UFT to keep Teacher Data Reports confidential, the effect was immediate. But I'd like to start further back than that, and return to last year, when I first saw my stinky TDR.


The effect on me was immediate, because I knew why I'd gotten such a low score. Besides the fact that the formula is wildly unpredictable, I had the added disadvantage of teaching extremely needy kids in an otherwise excellent school. I have no one to blame for that but myself; when my AP asked whether I'd take on the most challenging students they had, I agreed. I had some crazy idea in my head that helping the students who needed it most was what a teacher should do. So I did it. I've done it most of my career.


Now, because my school is so good, it was compared to other schools that are equally good or better. And there is simply no way that the kids I had taken on could compare to the average child in a "comparable" school. It didn't matter that I got the average child in my class to read (and document the reading of) well over 30 books each. It didn't matter that I managed to get an bunch of unruly and disinterested children to follow routines and learn to respect both the learning process and each other. No, all that mattered, as far as the DOE was concerned, was that I could not bring these children as far along as kids without learning and behavioral problems.

So when I got my TDR last year, I did something I am still not proud of. I quit.


No, I didn't quit teaching. I just quit volunteering to teach the very children who needed me most. When my AP asked me to take them on again (which he would not do unless he knew I'd been successful), I said no. This year, those kids are with another teacher who has difficulty just getting them to sit in their seats. (This is not a knock on her. She is new and these are tough kids).


I sometimes regret my decision even though this year I have a group of motivated students who will no doubt vault me back into the rarefied air of the "excellent" teacher. I might have gone back to teaching the toughest kids next year, because I think teaching is all about reaching the toughest-to-reach children. That was before the DOE decided they wanted to release the TDRs to the public.


I have a family to support and they are my primary duty. I can not take a chance that I will lose my job over some erroneous data.


There are other consequences of the TDRs that became apparent to me immediately. I've had discussions with at least three excellent teachers who have told me that they are now planning on leaving the DOE for sure, because they can not see how they will ever be able to put in enough years to retire from this system. They feel everything is stacked against them. Because it is.

Another consequence is that no one wants to teach the grades or subjects that are targets of the reports. I have a feeling that a LOT of teachers are going to request K-2 assignments or look to leave middle school so they don't have to be subjected to public humiliation should their numbers not stack up with whatever new system the DOE devises.


Those are the unintended consequences of the TDRs. Or, I wonder, did the DOE know exactly what would happen? Could it be that they want teachers to leave and to feel under the gun at all times? Could it be that they want no one around long enough to collect those pesky pensions?


Perhaps these consequences aren't so unintended after all.



http://www.accountabletalk.com/2010/10/uninteded-consequences.html
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
60. How Will Teachers Respond in 2010 and 2012?
That's an easy one to figure out.
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callous taoboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
62. Yes. every child is hermetically sealed except when in my care.
Yes. It is a myth that children come from other schools or from home-school situations to grace my classroom, or that they come from homes of drop-out parents with drop-out expectations. Fact is I unseal them when I arrive each day to my classroom and I find them crisp and smelling fresh as daises as per how I left them when I sealed them up in their air-tight containers at the end of the day the day before. Why, they are nothing more than mere widgets that I take off of the shelf at the start of each bright new day. I teach in la-la world where I certainly feel fine about being held accountable for the crispy little delights that are never tainted by the crusty old world outside of the walls of my classroom. Will you throw a few daisy petals into the air in the morning when you think about me unsealing my little test-taking wunderkinds?
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
63. Oh hell to the no!
That man has got to GO!!! :mad:
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
69. Let's see Arne post HIS credentials, or lack thereof!
He could not legally teach his own lesson plan unsupervised in a public school because he has no state certification!
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
70. Interesting teacher scores are posted, but not doctor's scores.
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