Yes, Mr. Mellencamp. You can...

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

"be stupid and do that."

Palin finds unlikely admirer in John Mellencamp

By JOHN CARUCCI
Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK (AP) -- Former vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin has found an admirer in John Mellencamp. The legendary rocker says that while he doesn't support her positions, he is impressed by the mark she's made on the country since the 2008 election.

Mellencamp says people get the wrong idea about her intellect "just because she says things and winks." He says she "knows exactly what's she doing" and "she wouldn't be where she is today if she didn't."

Mellencamp gives Palin credit for handling the rough world of politics. He says "she's pushing the right buttons" and "you can't be stupid and do that."

- SNIP -

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_PEOPLE_JOHN_MELLENCAMP_SARAH_PALIN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-10-22-08-52-54

[madmax]

1. OMG wait until mr. max

hears this. He likes Mellencamp we'd meet him in at a few bars in North Jersey.

I can't believe it. :wow:

[JuniperLea]

2. STFU, John...

We don't care how your little head feels about Lady Blah Blah, the Whore of Babble-on.

Now I feel dirty for thinking that your music was really about the little guy deserving a fair shake.

:puke:

[CreekDog]

6. For Pete's sake, the guy has been a more reliable leftist than almost any other entertainer

for decades now and you're ready to tell him to STFU for simply saying she's effective at getting her opinion across while also saying he doesn't agree with anything she stands for.

Really?

And yet you defend Arne and Obama for saying things that I think are far worse.

Weird.

[Hannah Bell]

7. +100.

[truebrit71]

10. People need to read shit before jumping to conclusions...

..I was initially disappointed in the headline but then I a) read the entire article and b) figured 50% was editorial bullshit because it's from the AP...

He said he didn't support her positions and that's good enough for me..

[Erose999]

32. The AP has been coddling the baggers lately for some reason. Its most disturbing.

[JuniperLea]

11. Show me where I defended Arne ever...

And I don't get into the Obama wars, so part two is what's really weird.

Anyone who can find anything good in evil is on my shit list...

[CreekDog]

34. My point should've been that you are unforgiving to Mellencamp who was less complimentary to Palin

than Obama was to Reagan.

why is that?

[JuniperLea]

39. I've already explained that...

There is nothing calculated about Palin. She's dirt dumb. She won some perception study with the GOTP and they matched her with McGrampy. She believes her own hype, that's it. Yes there's a 23% Bush Backwash contingency that looooove her. I'm sure they gave her high marks on the above-referenced perception study. Her ability to "push buttons" is merely a Pavlovian response on her part to the adulation of the backwash. If you wink and point, and people cheer, and people cheering is the outcome you're after, guess what? Even a hungry dog can figure that one out.

[CreekDog]

46. I'm taking issue with your over the top treatment of Mellencamp

everything you say about Palin is true. no issue there.

where Mellencamp is correct is that she is getting through to her constituency and that's really all he was saying, and that's true on the face of it.

but to say that you "feel dirty" for thinking his music was about the little guy?

talk about overreacting.

Mellencamp's done more to make me a Democrat (and I was a Reagan worshiping youth in the 1980's) than almost any Democrat out there. I was buying album after album of Mellencamp's, for the sound of course, and as I'd listen to him it was slowly eroding the idealized concept that Reagan had so effectively sold me. Mellencamp matter-of-factly told the stories of poor people, down and out farmers, minorities, people just wanting a good time because they had nothing else.

To say you feel dirty for previously and correctly "getting" the point of Mellencamp's music is just completely unfair and like I said, totally unfair in light of your lack of criticism of Obama for his comments on Reagan's presidency's transformational aspects.

[JuniperLea]

Yeah, because the two things are soooo much alike...

No, they aren't alike at all.

And how would you know what my comments were about that? I don't even recall them myself, if they even exist!

Clearly you missed the part where I said I was a big Mellencamp fan... I went from Johnny Cougar, to John Cougar, to John Cougar Mellencamp, to John Mellencamp... Jack & Diane, Little Pink Houses... seen him live twice.

I still think he gives her far too much credit, and I still think you are way off base.

[CreekDog]

59. I swear you have amnesia about your posts within the same thread

You said "I FEEL DIRTY..." in reference to listening to Mellencamp's music.

You seem to have forgotten saying that.

Second, I'm pointing out how when Obama seemingly complimented Reagan in EXACTLY the same way as Mellencamp has done for Palin, you hadn't expressed any criticism of that. Why on earth would I need a post to prove that you were silent on a matter? You are completely unreal.

I'm getting the impression from your posts in this thread and your posts in an education thread a while back that you don't remember what you posted 20 minutes ago in the same thread, that you don't bother to look at what you've said and for that reason feel accused when someone tells you what you just said.

Anyway, it appears you "like" Mellencamp again. Quite a transformative thread for you as you've gone from being a fan prior to the thread, to feeling dirty for thinking positively about his lyrics to now seemingly forgetting you said that just an hour ago.

My goodness. I think you're breathing too many truck fumes down there. :P

[JuniperLea]

Wow... I do believe you are making shit up...

"Second, I'm pointing out how when Obama seemingly complimented Reagan in EXACTLY the same way as Mellencamp has done for Palin, you hadn't expressed any criticism of that. Why on earth would I need a post to prove that you were silent on a matter? You are completely unreal."

Yeah, when you call me out on a specific like this, I do indeed want to see your proof. You are making shit up.

Truck fumes? Wow... I still have my fingers...

[CreekDog]

65. I said you were silent on the matter, how do I quote a post to PROVE that you were silent?

:wtf: :banghead:

as for the rest of it, sheesh, look at your own initial post in this thread!

you said it.

i only got all bent out of shape because I *like* Mellencamp and you were just over the top angry at him.

i didn't accuse you of a capital crime, i accused you of being unfair and inconsistent and then accused you of not owning up to posts in this very thread!

and you've done this kind of stuff before!

this is getting comical.

[CreekDog]

71. look, if you want to nonsensically deny things you posted in this very thread

go ahead.

i'm sick of trying to point it out to you.

it's a total waste of time. own your own statements.

we aren't even arguing about Mellencamp anymore we're arguing whether you said you felt "dirty" in reference to his songs now that he said what he said about Palin.

so freaking stupid. it's right there for everyone to see.

is everything ok or is it a debating technique to systematically deny everything, and i mean everything someone says to you?

[BootinUp]

76. Please

This is a pointless fight. Juniperlea has earned more respect than you are alotting imho.

[CreekDog]

77. not in this thread

sorry.

[CreekDog]

83. you defended Arne in reference to publishing test scores by teacher names

although the topic was more significant and important than arguing about Mellencamp, it degenerated into a discussion about whether you said what you said or not.

exactly as this one has.

i think i'm being fair about this.

[MedicalAdmin]

64. NO shit.

JM has been a consistant, put his money where his mouth is, liberal for decades. WTF?

He said that the quiter from Wasilla is good at manipulating and politics. And at the same time he hates her positions.


So hate me too when I say that Karl Rove is one of the most astute political operatives in all of US history. And he's a fucking assbag who deserves to be slow roasted on a spit for what he did to this country.



It's called nuance.

[truebrit71]

8. Did you read what he said, or did you just fly off the handle...

...

[JuniperLea]

23. I read it, and I think it's tripe...

To give the evil one credit for anything is something I find wrong. My opinion. Please keep your insults to yourself.

[wookie72]

53. SO evil people can't be intelligent?

[JuniperLea]

55. Where did I say that?

Palin is NOT intelligent, by any stretch of the imagination.

[wookie72]

62. You don't see any calculation, street smarts?

YOu seem to be missing the point of what he's saying, or dismissing it out of hand: underestimate her at your peril. That's a good message, IMHO.

[wookie72]

63. You don't see any calculation, street smarts?

YOu seem to be missing the point of what he's saying, or dismissing it out of hand: underestimate her at your peril. That's a good message, IMHO.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. Knee-jerk reaction much?

Did you "get " what he was saying? I agree with it completely. To "misunderestimate" this woman would be stupid.

The late great Molly Ivins told us the very same about W: Do not dimiss him as being "stupid". Some of us listened, some of us didn't. She was dead right about him.

If you don't know the difference between "stupid" and "ignorant", I suggest you check it out.

[Hello_Kitty]

16. He was complimenting her political savvy, not her views.

This reminds me of when people got their undies in a wad over Obama's praise of Reagan's communication ability during the primary.

[JuniperLea]

69. She has no political savvy... that's the point. eom

[Blue-Jay]

90. *sigh*

Your response makes me sad. You don't even TRY to "get it".

[HuckleB]

3. Say It Ain't So, John! Say It Ain't So! -eom-

[Touchdown]

4. What? He's a big old liberal! It's gotta be the sleazy librarian look.

:shrug:

[JuniperLea]

13. That's what I'm sayin... she's evil, to the core...

And anyone who can look past that is on my list...

[Touchdown]

17. Well, he's not entranced by her, so calm down.

He merely said that she has a skill in getting her snideness heard.

[JuniperLea]

20. Calm yourself the fuck down...

I have a right to my opinion, and I have a right to voice it without someone telling me what to do.

I did not jump to conclusions, I did not miss any grand point, I said what I thought... I think the woman is pure evil and deserves no credit for anything. Her popularity is not based on anything valid, I.M.H.F.O.

[Hannah Bell]

24. burn mellencamp! burn him! he said palin isn't as stupid as everyone pretends! heresy!

boy, if that's what grabs your panties in the "evil" department....

[Touchdown]

27. You have a right to that opinion.

I have a right to think you are over reacting.

You get no argument from me on The Monster from Wasilla. She is every bit as vile as you say she is, and more.

But this is about something Mellencamp said, not who he is.

[JuniperLea]

40. You will know them by their fruit...

What he says is his fruit.

I think it's ridiculous to give credit to Palin for falling for her own dog and pony show.

[EFerrari]

29. You have the right to your opinion but John should STFU, apparently. n/t

[JuniperLea]

31. Since when don't I have the right to say that?

Wow... all y'all are giving Palin far more credit than she deserves. Very weird.

[Hannah Bell]

35. wow, you're dissing good, long-term liberal dems. weird.

[JuniperLea]

48. Someone please tell ignored...

I'm probably very grateful for the function.

[Hannah Bell]

67. i believe that's a rules violation. if you're going to ignore, just do it, don't talk about it.

you can't have it both ways -- ignore but reserve the right to comment as you please.

[wookie72]

56. Um, no.

We're acknowledging a snake for what it is.

[wookie72]

57. Um, no.

We're acknowledging a snake for what it is.

[wookie72]

58. Um, no.

We're acknowledging a snake for what it is.

[bullwinkle428]

5. "Pushing the right buttons" = knowing how to dog-whistle

[mymomwasright]

9. He's saying she's smart enough to push stupid people's buttons.

EOM

[Hell Hath No Fury]

12. Agreed.

She's not "stupid", she is ignorant. Big difference. And that makes her very, very dangerous.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. She's "smart" in the same way that Bernie Madoff is smart.

Selling rubes snake oil.

[derby378]

18. Hitler wasn't stupid, either

Evil to the core, yeah, but not stupid. He pursued a populist approach to fascism, even if most Germans weren't buying into it. His National Socialism, while unabashedly far-right, did include a couple of traits usually embraced by the left. But just because someone "isn't stupid" doesn't mean I have to listen to what they say, let alone agree with it.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

25. Hitler never winked.

"Never wink" was a Nazi tenet.

[derby378]

26. Hey! How's life with Oscar, man?

:hi:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

28. I asked him how life was with me and he winked.

:hi:

[OnyxCollie]

41. Hitler wasn't evil.

Racist as hell, but not evil.

Were the Germans who followed Hitler evil? Or were they racist, gullible, ignorant, frightened, authoritarian-following lemmings?

Palin isn't evil, either. But she and the rest of the Tea Party are trying to capitalize on the same audience Hitler had.

When an authoritarian government leaves, if the next government isn't full-on authoritarian or full-on democratic, it creates a situation where an ideological leader can emerge. With or without the MSM, the Obama administration has had the ferocity of a wet noodle. It's been easy pickings to portray the Obama administration as weak.

Racial divisions can cause a civil war, and while Caucasians make up 77% of the population (more equal numbers between groups increases the likelihood of civil war), the RW media machine have been doing all they can to foment their audience's racist leanings.

Why do you think Palin had been given all this exposure? She's the big corporations' (and Bill Kristol's) great white hope. Convince racists that out groups are trying to take over, get the racists to vote, then spring the corporate agenda when they take over (while blaming the other party for the problems.)

Either that, or declare a national emergency and go full-on fascist/authoritarian.

[JuniperLea]

43. I think your evil bar is way too high...

Any man who orders millions of people put to death, for whatever reason, is fucking evil in my book.

[OnyxCollie]

44. What about threatening someone

by putting an electric drill against their head? Followed by a few hours hooded in darkness while shackled in a stress position, before a robust waterboarding session? Is that evil?

Our own US soldiers did that. Are they evil? What about John Yoo, who wrote the memo permitting that, is he evil?

If so, is the Obama administration just as evil for failing to prosecute those who are evil?

On edit: The Obama administration doesn't consider those actions to be evil. They consider them to be "policy differences," and not to be criminalized.

[JuniperLea]

51. Bogus... not even the same thing...

Yes all those people are evil... and there are good reasons for not prosecuting those evil people right now. In case you haven't noticed, there's a hell of a lot of stuff going on that requires undivided attention. I wanted to "hang 'em high" when Obama was elected... now I see it's better that we wait.

[OnyxCollie]

85. Wait until when?

When they fix FISA?
When they fix NAFTA?
When they fix HCR?
When they close GITMO?
When they close Bagram?
When they close the secret prisons?

I find your ability to rationalize sickening.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke

[OnyxCollie]

94. From your own post.

"That's what I'm sayin... she's evil, to the core...

And anyone who can look past that is on my list..."

Should we wait until after the midterms? Oh, no. We can't prosecute then, the '12 election is coming up.

After the '12 election? Well, that's old ground, and we need to look forward...

While you fawn over your pinup, people are being TORTURED.

[derby378]

45. How do you define evil?

I define "evil" as a mindset where the overriding determinant for thought and action is purpose. Not benevolence, not balance, not tranquility, not concern for other forms of life. Just pure, raw purpose.

It's a fancy way of saying "the end always justifies the means," but it throws a little motivation behind the need to justify means.

Hitler wanted to rid the world of Jews, whether or not the Jews ever did anything to him or not. And he didn't mind at all that his minions came up with incredibly painful and inhumane methods for inflicting slow death on Jews, e.g. forced labor, exposure, medical experiments, and torture. That's pretty fucking evil.

[OnyxCollie]

93. How do I define evil?

Let's see, Jeffrey Dahmer was evil. Ted Bundy was evil. John Wayne Gacy was evil. Anthony Sowell (recent Cleveland serial killer who had 11 bodies stuffed in his house) is evil.

When you get into state leaders, things get a little dicey. I'm going to use Barnett, V. (2006). Understanding Stalinism: The 'Orwellian discrepancy' and the 'rational choice dictator.' Europe-Asia Studies, 58(3), 457-466.

Here's the abstract:

This discussion article examines the logical bases of the arguments often encountered in the literature
that compares Soviet and Nazi totalitarianism. It analyses the 'Orwellian discrepancy' between Marxist
ideals and Soviet reality, the comparative differences in numbers of people that were murdered by the
Stalin and Hitler regimes, and the distinction between 'murder' and 'execution' that is sometimes
applied to the actions of the two tyrants. It then examines the notion of Stalin as a 'rational choice'
dictator who, through the use of state-sponsored terror, was simply ensuring the survival of his regime,
and suggests that a better model for Stalin's government would be that of 'pseudo-rational choice
irrationality'. Arguments that imply that 'Team Stalin' should not be seen as a totalitarian corporate
form of government because of some attempted reforms and recently revealed institutional complexity
are also considered. It concludes by reaffirming the importance of understanding human belief and
intellectual factors to a comprehension of historical development.

Was Stalin evil? He was corrupt, and despite what he said, did not follow the doctrine of Marx. But was he evil? Eh, I dunno.

Was Hitler evil? He was racist, and was using vague goals and arbitrary methods to stay in control. But was he evil? No.

Kim Jon Ill might be evil. He seems irrational.

[wookie72]

19. Seriously, many people fail at reading comprehension.

The same thing is going on with the responses to this article at HuffPo, I'm not sure why I expected better here.

"Impressed" is not the same as being an "admirer," which is the reporter's word, not his. I'm "impressed" with DIck Cheney's ability to manipulate people, but I don't admire him at all.

This is entirely the same thing that *ssholes like Beck do.. take one thing someone says and jumps on it. On HuffPo I've heard people call Mellencamp a hasbeen (my friends went to the anniversary Farm Aid this fall, had a great time, plus his new record is supposed to be pretty good) and worse, based on a headline. (One even wrote something to the affect of "What do you expect he's from Indiana"- WTF does that even mean?) Quit jumping to so many conclusions!

[JuniperLea]

21. Indeed "they" do fail at reading comprehension...

Clearly.

[wookie72]

49. your point being?

As far as I can tell, Mellencamp's point was pretty clear. People could address that, but instead they heap insults.

[JuniperLea]

54. I'm saying Mellencamp's point is flawed...

That Palin deserves no credit for her Pavlovian response to the adulation of her minions. She's not pushing buttons intentionally with calculation, she's getting a raw response.

[wookie72]

60. That's your opinion

What I see on here and on HuffPo is a lot of people ready to trash a guy with a good progressive background for one comment they disagree with. PErsonally, I think he has a point, and there is a difference between acknowledging that someone like Palin has more going on than we think. It's foolish to look at things in such black-and-white terms.

[EC]

22. What he is saying in his famous poetic way

is that she is a good manipulator and knows it...that she knows how to push peoples buttons to incite them...I don't believe he's an admirer, I think he's calling her on it...

[JuniperLea]

30. I don't think she's bright enough to realize any of that...

I think she believes her own hype, and that she and her followers, also ignorant, are on the same low-level wavelength. I don't believe there's anything calculated about it, beyond the initial calculations and perception studies used by the GOTP before they matched her with Grampy McCain.

[RainDog]

86. agreed. he's acknowledging she's a skillful manipulator - a good performer

as far as his politics go - he put himself on the line before the invasion of Iraq speaking out against that war in a part of the country that, while it has deep blue pockets in cities, is rural red with lots of people who look to the military for jobs.

[CBGLuthier]

33. Bush spent 8 stupid years doing stupid things and he pushed every fucking button I have

I would say Mr. Mellencamp is a poor judge of stupid.

[BlueIdaho]

36. Does Mr. Mellencamp have a new CD or tour soon?

Sounds like someone needed a piece of the big media spotlight...

[Stevenmarc]

37. Palin puts the Cougar back in Mellencamp

[treestar]

52. lol!

[BootinUp]

38. Mellencamp sends up a warning flare

to the sleeping masses.

[wookie72]

61. Exactly

If someone had said that BUsh isn't as dumb as he looks (which is essentially what he's saying about Palin) I think they would be doing us a service.

[Lint Head]

42. The only buttons Sara Palin is pushing are labeled Racist, Bigot, Hate, Fear,

Deception and Lies.

[pintobean]

47. Back in February most people here

wanted him to run for the Senate.

[treestar]

50. IMO he belongs to that camp that thinks she is doing it all on purpose

That she is not sincere, just putting on an act that will get her attention. I've seen it about Christine O'Donnell, too.

I'm on the fence. I think they just may be that dumb.

[OHdem10]

66. Pushing right buttons for certain people but far from the majority.

[shockra]

68. On my first trip to the Midwest two years ago...

I ended up staying for two weeks in Seymour, Indiana. I was rather excited when I learned that was John "Cougar" Mellencamp's home town! I listened to him a lot as a teen, when he first hit the charts.

His music was fresh in my mind, too, since some of the candidates (Edwards, McCain) had played his songs on the campaign trail. Anyhoo, later that month Palin was picked as the VP nominee and with all her talk about her "small town"/Wasilla values I can't listen to Small Town without thinking of Scarah. I don't know if SHE actually used that song in rallies or not, nevertheless...

One of the only fun things about that trip is forever tainted.

"Pink Houses" on the other hand, makes me think of the house I grew up in, which is now painted pink. I drive past it every day. It's directly across the street from our future Governor, Ethan Berkowitz! Well, I have to keep hoping. That everyone associated with Palin...Gov. Sean Parnell, Joe Miller...gets the boot.

[spanone]

70. john the hothead.....maybe she pushed his buttons?

[walldude]

72. He's right. 3 years ago no one knew her name,

Now she is one of the most polarizing figures on the planet. I give her less credit than he does though. She didn't do this alone. She has puppet masters pulling her strings.

[BootinUp]

73. She has wealthy financial backers, but the folksie BS is hers nt

[PassingFair]

81. Here's her Svengali:

Asshole extraordinaire, Bill Kristol.

[cynatnite]

74. He's right. She knows how to manipulate the press. n/t

[Dawson Leery]

75. Don't me mad at John for this. He is but calling Sarah out for her baiting tactics

against minorities.
Be mad at John for making a song with COCKROACH travis tritt :puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:
The same cockroach who called for a boycott of the Dixie Chicks!

[muffin1]

78. I thought that was Toby Keith... n/t

[Dawson Leery]

79. Toby Keith is another prick.

[muffin1]

84. No argument here.

[Tutankhamun]

80. One thing I've noticed aout Mellencamp is that he tends to focus on the positive in people.

Even people who may not deserve it. He supported Obama. He's always defended the little guy, he's made some great albums and he doesn't agree with Palin's positions.

The only mistake he's made here is conflating an adoring corporate MSM and a telegenic (sexy for a middle aged politician) presence with actual intelligence on Palin's part.

[AngryOldDem]

82. In a way, he's right.

The woman does know how to manipulate and rile up the masses. She does know what buttons to push, but the question is, once she gets the Baggers riled up, will she know how to contain their anger? And strictly speaking, her rise from a nobody in 2008 to someone who has to be reckoned with in 2012 is nothing short of impressive.

She is a perfect example of a demagogue, and she probably doesn't even know what that is.

[RainDog]

87. She has the neo-cons behind her

Kristol is the one who promoted her to McCain.

She has also aligned herself with extremist right-wing xtians - including those who have been part of the push to make homosexuals illegal - and even call for their deaths, in Uganda.

This is the sort of power she embodies - the power of hate.

[gauguin57]

88. Keep it in your pants, Johnny Cougar!

Sarah's not a model ... she just plays one on TV.

[cigsandcoffee]

89. Obviously, the man does not have hate in his heart.

I like him for that.

[MyshkinCommaPrince]

91. Seems like a warning

I assume he's telling us not to underestimate her. Don't laugh her off because she seems stupid. Some of her influence over the crazies seems to result from her seeming stupid, whether she is or not. The crazies and those who influence them are potentially dangerous and shouldn't be laughed away too readily.

[Jamastiene]

92. Reading comprehension helps here.

He is not saying he agrees with her positions.