Juan Williams is not now and never has been a liberal. So there, I said it. n/t

[mfcorey1]

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

1. Of course not.

There are no Liberals at FAUX Noize.

[Drix]

2. He deserved to be fired.

Fox News is not a news organization. It's a propaganda front for right wing conservatives.

[JoePhilly]

3. You make a very important point.

Juan was an ACTOR.

He is not a liberal. He was payed to PLAY ONE.

And so, when he said what he said to Billo the Clown, he was not "examining his own prejudice" ... he was not trying to "understand his own emotions" ...

He was ACTING. And his ACT was to intended to remind the insane far right, that their fear of anyone who look "Muslim" is OK.

That is what he was doing.

[emilyg]

15. You crawled into his mind?

[Ruby the Liberal]

4. Um wut?

Someone said he was? Really?

[a la izquierda]

33. Republicans who don't understand vocabulary do.

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. I would not be disappointed to see NPR can Mara Liasson as well.

Another NPR actress majoring in objectivity, but her Faux lean always seems to creep in...to my ears, anyway.

[mkultra]

16. +1

[Bragi]

6. Doesn't matter, this may not end up well for NPR

I have a feeling this may not play out well for NPR.

They are now back in the divisive non-lucrative culture war zone big-time, not because they are standing for some great principle, or defending tough and courageous reporting, but over sacking an on-air personality for expressing personal views on another network that were more stupid than offensive, but which apparently transgressed NPR's byzantine code of ethics that makes "analysis" okay but bans "punditry" and "commentary" (huh?), thereby catapulting the fired "analyst" into bigger and richer stardom, while also triggering donation boycotts and Congressional defunding initiatives.

Fucking brilliant. Can't wait to see what they do next. Hope it involves compelling drama using the NPR standard employment contract as the screenplay.

[U4ikLefty]

Okay, you support bigots...we get it.

Just watch FOX & you'll be at home with your paradigm.

[Bragi]

8. Well argued!

I'll ponder your thoughtful points when time permits.

[U4ikLefty]

10. As thoughtful as your bigot-defending posts?

Free-speech my ass...you agree with JW's shit & you'll deny it (of course).

Just take note that many of us here see right through your "efforts to defend free-speech".

I may be an confrontational asshole, but it's WAY better than being a anti-Muslim bigot.

[kelly1mm]

14. The President does not believe in gay marriage. How should we

treat him? Do you consider him a bigot? Do you consider anyone who supports him a bigot defender?

[U4ikLefty]

34. If the President "does not believe in gay marriage" then of course he is a bigot.

I consider anyone who supports that "position" to be a bigot. Just like those who would've opposed his momma's marriage to a black man.

Anything else I can help you with?

[kelly1mm]

39. You said if as though it was not established. Here is a link:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/11/obama-on-mtv-i.html

[U4ikLefty]

40. I said exactly what I meant. If Obama is against marriage rights for gay people

then he is a bigot.

Bigot, bigot, bigot!!! Does that relieve any doubts?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[U4ikLefty]

35. I'm sorry, but is that an attempt at sarcasm?

please be clear.

[Bragi]

22. U4ikLefty writes:

you agree with JW's shit & you'll deny it (of course)

Now there's a good rhetorical technique. You make an accusation against someone, and then you foretell what the other person will say in response.

You follow this up with a claim to be part of a group called "many of us here" who apparently see through "your efforts to defend free speech."

Finally, you conclude your address on a high note, explaining that you personally "feel WAY better than being a anti-Muslim bigot."

Well okay. I hope that's working for you.

For my part, I'd like to point anyone who might wish to test any claims about my opinions to my DU Journal, which I began to keep precisely so that anyone who wants to, can peruse some of my DU postings on various topics.

Just click on the "Journal Updated" link found in the upper right corner of this posting, should you so wish.

And I'm fine with anyone choosing not to peruse my stuff. I can appreciate having other priorities.

But if you do decline to inform yourself about my views, then I think it seems fair to ask you to refrain from imagining vile opinions, and then accusing me of holding them, without any foundation whatsoever.

[U4ikLefty]

36. I'm sorry Bragi...I fell asleep after the third line of your "post"

I sensed a self-important rant about nothing. I'd rather pour lime juice into my wounds than read a fourth.

There is no "free-speech" issue here. Just an asshole who thought he could talk shit & not be held acountable..he was, end of story.

See post #29 for context.

[Ramulux]

18. Are you being serious?

Are you saying that NPR didn't have the right to fire an employee who went on a major news network and disparaged an entire religion? Juan Williams is a bigot. NPR fired him for sharing those bigoted views on national television. Whether or not Fox News and their brilliant commentators decide to turn this into a campaign against NPR has nothing to do with whether or not NPR was right to fire him. Fox News is wrong about a lot of things a lot of the time, this is just another one of those times.

[Bragi]

19. Yes, they have a right

I don't question the fact that NPR apparently had a legal right to fire him. Given their ambiguous code of conduct, they can probably fire any employee just about whenever they want.

My point is not to bemoan or condemn their decision, I'm just saying I don't think they were wise to make it.

They had options, and could have, for example, apologized and moved on, it happens all the time. You don't have to fire people every time there's a mistake made, especially if it is a less than totally off-the-charts egregious offense.

Anyway, NPR chose to fire Williams, and now they're reaping a pack of trouble for it, and it looks like he's doing splendidly.

Frankly, this whole thing isn't something that I'm going to lose much sleep over one way or the other, but I do believe they would have been better off not firing him. Perhaps time will tell more clearly than we can see right now.

(And I am amazed at the bombastic vitriol being hurled at me for simply stating my opinion on this decision by NPR.)

[Ramulux]

27. So let me get this straight

NPR shouldn't have fired Williams because they will suffer from the illogical political attacks made against them by Fox News? So, we should live in a world where we only do whats right as long as it doesn't upset Fox? Williams made a bigoted comment, the entire Muslim community condemned his words and in response NPR fired him. Thats it, that's the end of the story, if Fox News wants to freak out about it and try to get NPR defunded, that is their problem. NPR had every right to do what they did and they absolutely made the morally right decision, Fox News and their response does not have anything to with this situation, their anger is 100% unjustified and unwarranted and NPR should not factor it into their decision-making process.

[Bragi]

28. They should factor in public opinion

This is not just about machinations between NPR and Fox news.

NPR is in the media business, and it's directors have to care what the public thinks, about what its potential listeners and supporters think, and what Congress thinks.

I gather from a posting below that public opinion is running about 70-30 in favour of Williams over NPR.

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9370880&mesg_id=9371579

If those numbers hold, that's NPR's problem, and its real. The Congressional campaign being launched against them is also a real problem.

That's really all I'm saying. In the end, NPR is causing itself potentially existential grief not over some important principle or courageous reporting, it's defending its right to fire someone who was moderately offensive at best, a decision which barely 3 out of every 10 people support.

Not good for NPR. I stand by my view that they have screwed this up, and I am quite sorry that they have done this to themselves, as I am a supporter of public broadcasting.

[Ramulux]

29. If you were Muslim

you wouldn't feel that way. Claiming that Muslims make you nervous isn't simply "moderately" offensive its fucking disgusting. Juan Williams is a bigot who I agree should have been fired multiple times in the past, but that's not my concern, I dont care if NPR is doing this on principle or because they dont like Fox, it doesn't matter to me, all that matters is that he is fired.

I really cant believe that you are saying public opinion should trump whats right, that is the kind of reasoning we hear from conservatives all the time. Over 70% of the public felt that the ground zero mosque should be moved and 70% of our public was dead wrong on that issue. I dont believe that NPR should have kept Williams hired simply because Fox News or the public thought they should, I dont think the right decision is any less right because Fox News thinks its the wrong decision. The basic point I am trying to make is that Fox News has NOTHING to do with this situation, Juan Williams fucked up and got fired. End of story. Do you honestly think he should have not been fired simply because some people think he shouldn't have?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. ''My point is not to bemoan or condemn their decision''

Nooooo, not at all.

SO high-brow. :rofl:

[tularetom]

7. No but he plays one on TV

Only in the minds of Fox's army of dumbass viewers, is Williams a "liberal".

And Fox is happy to promote this misconception because (a) it reinforces the fair 'n' balanced bullshit, (b) it plays to the stereotypes the typical Fox viewer has (all blacks are "liberals" and (c) williams is stupid, meek and docile and therefore an easy target for Fox bulllies like O'Reilly to push around, thus demonstrating that all "liberals" are weak kneed wusses who cannot hold their own when dealing with a "real man" like Billo the Clown.

I don't know how Williams is able to look himself in the mirror knowing what a whore he is, but maybe the 2 million bucks he got from Fox eases the pain a little.

[JI7]

9. he is a whore

[Billy Burnett]

11. When Juan replaced Rey Suarez on NPR's Talk of the Nation I was disgusted by the swing to the right.

eom

[backscatter712]

12. I'm more than happy to see the Democrats take his scalp!

If you ask me, the biggest mistake the Democrats make is not being ruthless enough.

[oswaldactedalone]

13. I coudn't stand the gasbag

He's one of the reasons I stopped listening to NPR six months ago and haven't looked back.

[doc03]

17. I dare an American have the nerve to tell the truth

that he has had thoughts that aren't politically correct to some.

[TheIdiot]

21. Oh, it's OK to HAVE those thoughts...

just don't open your fucking mouth.

We are fucked.

[doc03]

23. Here are the results from a few polls I found on the subject

Washington Post: agree with Williams 74%
agree with NPR 25%

Guardian UK: agree with Williams 67%
agree with NPR 33%


Time: agree with Williams 70%
agree with NPR 30%

[Bragi]

25. Wow. If true, then that's pretty clear

Looks like NPR has succeeded in bringing the country together, but has fucked itself badly in the process.

As a supporter of public broadcasting, I think this is a bad outcome. I seriously question the competence and judgment of the people who made that decision.

[doc03]

26. Here is another one that breaks down how people think

about the firing. You can vote to get the results or just click view results.
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/therapy-soup/2010/10/should-npr-have-fired-juan-williams-weekly-poll/?utm_source=PsychCentral&utm_medium=twitter

[TheIdiot]

31. wow... 96% feel NPR was out of line...

now i don't feel so bad.

[doc03]

24. Not only have we lost our right to free speech we now

can't even say we had a politically incorrect thought.

[TheIdiot]

32. scary, isn't it...? when did this happen??? eom

[ProgressiveEconomist]

37. He hasn't been a liberal for years, but he sure WAS a distinguished one, when he

reported for the Washington Post 1976-2000. His 1988 book "Eyes on the Prize: America's Civil Rights Years" was written to accompany one of the most important documentaries ever.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Williams for a chronicle of how far he has fallen. His bibliography inclueds a 2007 book whose title makes it sound like it vcould have been written by Armstrong Williams.

[BlueIdaho]

38. But he is now a full time employee of Fox news with a $2,000,000 salary.

I'm sure he will feel right at home there.