Teacher takes on challenging kids per supervisor request. Gets poor rating because of it.

[madfloridian]

That's the problem, you see. Here they are..all the reformers...talking big about accountability. Yet when a respected teacher takes on challenging students because their supervisor knows they do a good job....then they get screwed by a bad rating that may yet end up being published in the NYC papers.

That's an old story really. Not a new one. Before I retired I often got the challenges because I could handle the discipline and get through to many of them. But there was a price to be paid come testing time because they could not score as high as many other classes. At that time there was not as much at stake.

I don't blame the teacher/blogger for saying no the next time. It is not worth the cost of having your name up in lights for being a poor teacher...not when all the time you were acting at the request of a supervisor who considered you worthy.

From the blog Accountable Talk:

(Un)intended Consequences

After the DOE decided to ignore their agreement with the UFT to keep Teacher Data Reports confidential, the effect was immediate. But I'd like to start further back than that, and return to last year, when I first saw my stinky TDR.

The effect on me was immediate, because I knew why I'd gotten such a low score. Besides the fact that the formula is wildly unpredictable, I had the added disadvantage of teaching extremely needy kids in an otherwise excellent school. I have no one to blame for that but myself; when my AP asked whether I'd take on the most challenging students they had, I agreed. I had some crazy idea in my head that helping the students who needed it most was what a teacher should do. So I did it. I've done it most of my career.

I say amen to that comment. A good teacher would feel that way. But under this new regime of "reformers"...I just bet they will think twice at least.

Now, because my school is so good, it was compared to other schools that are equally good or better. And there is simply no way that the kids I had taken on could compare to the average child in a "comparable" school. It didn't matter that I got the average child in my class to read (and document the reading of) well over 30 books each. It didn't matter that I managed to get an bunch of unruly and disinterested children to follow routines and learn to respect both the learning process and each other. No, all that mattered, as far as the DOE was concerned, was that I could not bring these children as far along as kids without learning and behavioral problems.

..."So when I got my TDR last year, I did something I am still not proud of. I quit. No, I didn't quit teaching. I just quit volunteering to teach the very children who needed me most. When my AP asked me to take them on again (which he would not do unless he knew I'd been successful), I said no. This year, those kids are with another teacher who has difficulty just getting them to sit in their seats. (This is not a knock on her. She is new and these are tough kids).

The blogger continues that there is a family to support, and he can not afford to lose that job over erroneous data.

I wonder if anyone has gotten through to this administration how much harm is being done in the name of this "reform" that denigrates teachers and sets up an atmosphere of fear and distrust?

It does not seem that way.

[Dappleganger]

1. If all they look at is data then how can they know about the real effects

it has on the students, or how it affects a teacher's willingness to work with kids who don't perform well on tests?

BTW, I'd like to go on record to say that your posts have taught me so much about what teachers go through these days. As a parent you cannot possibly know just how much these posts have helped me try to be more supportive of our kids' teachers.

[madfloridian]

3. You are right. True learning can not be data-driven.

There is a place for data, always has been. Teachers have always been evaluated and rated.

But this is a bit too far.

Thanks for the kind words.

[Angry Dragon]

12. Mad I disagree with you

You state that it is a bit too far
I call it total bullshit coming from this admin and duncan

[madfloridian]

17. Heh heh

You may not even be disagreeing. I tend to understate I think. :-)

[Fire1]

52. On behalf of all the teachers on DU, thank you. Secondly,

they look at data as an assessment OF the student not FOR the student. Assessments FOR the student are supposed to be done consistently in the classroom by the teacher.

[DebJ]

2. And then there are teachers who are forced into these

challenging jobs, and given no choice, either to opt in, or to opt out, because they are one of the very few in the district who happen to be highly qualified in either all or most subjects. And yes, they are being penalized, too, but there is no way out for them...except a heart attack, disability....

[madfloridian]

7. The last school where I taught before retirement was that way.

Mostly that way I should say. The poverty level was high, it was a high crime area. It was hard for teachers and students as well.

And yes, for those nearing retirement relocating would be hard.

[DebJ]

8. Relocation is impossible. Hubby is 60; mortgage upside down.

Retirement itself may be becoming completely impossible. After 28 years.

[madfloridian]

11. ....

So sorry. That makes my heart ache. I talked to a friend the other day that I taught with. Haven't been in contact for several years. Because of some medical bills and mortgage problems she will have to keep working somewhere after 30 years. What a mess the GOP made of this country, and we only have a very narrow window to fix it.

:hug: to you from me.

[DebJ]

13. Thanks.

[djp2]

36. Same here...34 years of teaching

and still need 7 more to pay off the mortgage

[RC]

4. Nothing matters except test scores, because test scores are tied to money.

Teaching is the only job where you need a Masters Degree for a blue collar job.
The problem is it is the Administrators that go to the national seminars, instead of the teachers in the trenches, and bring back the latest experiment in "teaching" methods.

[malletgirl02]

6. "Reformers"

What I notice is that many of these so called "reformers" spent very little time teaching.

[madfloridian]

20. Mostly business people wanting to run education like a business...

and they forget they are dealing with human beings. When their first move is taking away teacher security and hiring cheaper newer teachers, it sort of gives them away.

What amazes me is the number of districts actually bragging about paying new teacher companies like TFA hundreds of thousands to hire their inexperienced teachers when they could hire locally for free.

[TheMadMonk]

16. It's more than that. It is very clearly obvious that there are people calling...

...the shots: who want a subliterate ignorant populace; who want division along racial, ideological and social lines; who want a thriving criminal sub-culture; and who are actively doing everything in their power to bring these things about.

And in the face of an active campaign (that for at least 1/2 a century has also been an openly contemptuous one) to keep Americans scared, stupid and at each other's throats what do Americans do? They throw poo at each other and scream like a cageful of monkeys about who has the right to tell kiddies about pee-pees, poopies and front bottoms and their uses beyond evacuation of bodily wastes.

More generally, the matters on which Americans are encouraged to engage in "lively debate" are those which drive people apart rather than bring them together. Price rather than benefit.

Look to the demagogues the corporations not only tollerate but encourage. Look at what passes for a moderate voice.

And what does the Left offer? Tepid debate on individual issues. And nothing at all on the overlying problem. A ruling class that DOES NOT WANT its workers thinking and working for themselves.

In fact thinking about it, Charter Schools pretty much finishes off the privatisation of the public commons.

[djp2]

35. Amen

That's all I CAN say!

[dkf]

80. If they wanted a subliterate ignorant populace why do anything at all?

I don't understand this accusation. It isn't as if things were going so well that people needed to get politically and personally involved to make it worse.

[MedicalAdmin]

46. Former teacher here. My advice to teachers. ...

It's a J O B. And nothing more. Go in, punch the clock, teach to the test.

You are nothing to the admin of your school or the DOE. Period. They don't give a shit about you, your students, or America. So fuck em.

Don't take extra assignments. Don't work extra hours. Don't stick your neck out. Or you'll end up like me - canned and blackballed.

Find an alternate career and income stream while you milk the system for all it's worth , because brothers and sisters the system is being 'reformed' to milk the life out of you if you don't.

I'm lucky and smart. I took my firing, and the firings of several better teachers than me, looked around and moved on. You should too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. That's pretty much where I am at myself

I'm lucky. I can retire anytime I want. So I go in every day because I WANT to be there, not because I HAVE to be there. And I am really enjoying the kids. When I decide to go, it will be because I want to go, not because anyone drove me away. And when I do go, I won't be working anywhere else. I'm done jumping through hoops to keep a job in a fucked up bureaucracy.

[w8liftinglady]

5. My partner encountered this as well.Behavior problems were his specialty

he was never happier when they had to change classrooms so that he taught math to all students.there was no relief for the teacher....8 straight hours of constant attention....and,yes...his benchmark exams tended to be below level for some students(although many did great-he IS a great teacher)

[madfloridian]

27. I remember a class...

in which I had 5 students on medication for ADHD. Several were ELL, 3 I think. Two were suspected learning disabled...we were not allowed to refer anything that year that even looked like dyslexia. I was proud of the progress all of them made. But there was no way they could perform well on high tension, high stakes testing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Ah mad, you slacker

I have classes like that every year. Only they are ALL either learning disabled or intellectually deficient (that's the new term this year after they abandoned mentally retarded). And so many are on meds that we line up to go the nurse. (Actually that's only in a good year. Many years I ask the nurse to just bring the meds to us, as walking them in the hall is torture.)

Oh and more and more are ELL. They are finally figuring out how to qualify ELL kids.

I do need to thank you though since you posted something just the other day that provided me with great relief. It was a piece about the general ed teacher being rated for the test scores of the class, and the sped teacher being left out. Fine by me!

But you're still a slacker! :hi:

[Starry Messenger]

9. k & r

[liberalhistorian]

37. I'm waiting for your sig pic antithesis to

come striding grandly in here proclaiming the virtues of his "hero" and that the OP should just suck it up and STFU. Then again, I suspect crickets will be sounding soon in that regard.

Ever notice how silent he is on these threads? Heh.

[Starry Messenger]

43. I have a theory, based totally on unscientific observation

that the education reform boosters never post on odd numbered days. I don't know why. But I've noticed this over the course of the month that threads posted on odd numbered days are mostly unmolested. I don't know if they are splitting time with us and *cough* another forum...

[liberalhistorian]

47. Heh. For all we know, you very well

might be right. Then again, we're now posting on an "even" day, so brace yourself. Maybe they'll wait until after football. Or after they get their Daily Talking Points from the horse's mouth himself.

Sometimes I'm actually grateful that my stepdad, who taught for nearly forty years before having to retire early due to early-onset dementia, is now in a nursing home (in only his sixties) and knows nothing. Because it makes me sick to think how hard he and my mom (also a teacher) worked throughout their lives, only to constantly get nothing but shit for it. And he was tenured, so they'd probably be coming after him even though he was a damned good teacher who cared and the students knew he cared. He put up with a lot of shit from parents and the admins who cowered before the parents, too. He put up with shit and then got sick before he could ever enjoy retirement and now most of his retirement goes to pay for his nursing home.

And these fucking Arne apologists on here would have had him tarred and feathered for factors over which he had no control at all, such as parental action (or lack of action) and attitude (or lack thereof). Fuckers, all of them. I'd like to sentence them to an entire month in a classroom, all by themselves, responsible for everything, with no help and with every child having angry, entitled, or uninvolved parents. See how fast they'd run.

[Starry Messenger]

51. ((hugs)) to you and your family.

I always appreciate your posts. Your stepdad sounds like a very special person. Give him a hug from starry the next time you see him.

The most tragic thing is knowing that the current crop of reform is just a cynical dodge to deregulate education and funnel taxpayer money to Wall Street. I could take the apologists if I thought all of this was out of a genuine desire to help, but the shallowness and mean-ness of the propaganda can be hard to face, knowing it is largely a product of skillful marketing. It is really one of those jobs you have to perform or live around to know what it all entails. I'm am heartened by every supporter we have.

[Angry Dragon]

10. Grade for Arne Duncan = Fail

It is time for arne to be set in the street and
let his grade be shown to all

[madfloridian]

28. I don't think he is even aware of how public school teachers feel.

I think he gives a nice word now and then, but overall he goes to places that are tied to Bill Gates money like Hillsborough County in Florida, and the first KIPP school in Florida...I think in the Jacksonville area.

And he talks about not trying to hurt teachers, but his actions are doing just that.

[Angry Dragon]

29. If he is that far in the dark about the feelings of teachers

then it is just another example to show that he has
no business having the job he does.

His grade is = FAIL

I thought this administration was about being bipartisan
If he does not talk to teachers is a total fool

[Swamp Rat]

14. k&r

[yurbud]

15. my grandmother who taught for 40 years said the same thing. The principal gave her the hard cases

because he knew she could melt them, but if she had been evaluated on test scores, they would have made her look like a bad teacher.

[madfloridian]

26. That is what is happening all over.

And with the zero tolerance, "everyone can learn at same level", mentality that is going on now, whole schools are paying the price for caring and working with the hard cases.

[Luminous Animal]

18. Kick. I have little hope that the privateers on DU will comment on this thread.

But they should.

[varelse]

24. Heh - careful what you wish for...

I'm kind of happy they're not here... yet.

[Luminous Animal]

30. I actually PMed one regular teacher basher to join in the conversation but no luck.

[madfloridian]

33. ...

Well, there are some who post regularly that I am not telling the truth...complete with exclamation points at the end of the subject line.

So it's a relief that they can't do it on this thread because they would have to call the other teachers a liar as well.

[liberalhistorian]

38. And usually such posters have never set foot

in a classroom on the teacher's side of the desk, very few know what the fuck they're talking about.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. But they were all in 3rd grade at one time

Some more than one time. :)

[Starry Messenger]

34. That's very sporting of you.

:thumbsup: They've been very quiet today. I wonder what gives?

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. They're all in the thread about the principal who can't spell

It's a shinier thing to them today. :)

[Starry Messenger]

45. Oh right.

I saw that one today. Well, I'll take small favors. :D

[Jakes Progress]

60. Most of them have finally (finally) learned

that they haven't a leg to stand on. They just stuff any progressive or liberal leanings they have down deep and try to spout the party line here, but get torn up. They have to twist all they know and believe into a pretzel to support the Obama/reagan education plan. They know inside that this is wrong, that they shouldn't be supporting this. But they can't bring themselves to complain about anything the administration does.

[Luminous Animal]

19. Kick.

[HuckleB]

21. It is one of the problems, indeed.

Ugh. :mad:

[varelse]

22. K&R

[knitter4democracy]

23. My school's in a similar situation.

We're the good local alternative high school, and we have to meet AYP the same as every other school in the area. So, we get the kids the other schools kick out for low test scores or whatever, and we have to get them to do well on the ACT (our state's required standardized test with a couple of extra sections for all juniors). We get them coming in with a fourth grade reading level, with no concept of what a paragraph is, with elementary-level math understanding, and we have to get them to test well just a few months later. It's insane.

Last year, though, we graduated 77 kids who wouldn't have any other way. We had kids get full rides to tech/trade schools, get all kinds of awards, and raise their reading levels by multiples of grade levels, but according to AYP, we're an at-risk school that doesn't do a good job. Everyone in the area knows that's bunk, but there's still the risk that we'll be shut down in a few years.

[madfloridian]

25. It should not be that way. It's the no excuses, zero tolerance...

crap that has taken over our society.

There should be respect for teachers who bring kids at risk to good points, and there should be respect for the kids who work as hard as they can.

This whole thing is swinging out of control now, more than it did under the Bush administration.

[reggie the dog]

31. Like i have argued all along

why in the hell do these ratings systems punish teachers who take on the hardest lots of kids???? really what would be behind that kind of logic?????

[madfloridian]

32. Good question, good argument.

You will get no answer because no one with power over schools is listening.

[malletgirl02]

42. That is a good argument

It is actually a disincentive for teachers to take challenging kids, because they will only be judge on test scores, not that they took on a challenge to teach difficult students or in a difficult school. Just to make sure I'm not saying anything bad about teachers. It just that teachers are only human, I think there is only so much a person can take.

[bertman]

39. KICK. Too late to rec. nt

[REP]

44. I wonder about a teacher who doesn't know the difference between "disinterested" and "uninterested"

I think we're only seeing one side - and that side isn't representing itself well.

[liberalhistorian]

48. And look, starry and proud, here they come now!!!

Listen, genius, "challenging" kids can be a mix of disinterested and uninterested. Careful not to let that "one-size-fits-all" attitude get to ya too much, ya hear?

[REP]

64. Oh for fuck's sake

Disinterested, as having no stake or part in the outcome. Whatever, genius.

[dsc]

50. I actually went and looked disinterested up on dictionary.com

and lo and behold

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disinterested

–adjective
1. unbiased by personal interest or advantage; not influenced by selfish motives: a disinterested decision by the referee.
2. not interested; indifferent.

—Usage note
Disinterested and uninterested share a confused and confusing history. Disinterested was originally used to mean “not interested, indifferent”; uninterested in its earliest use meant “impartial.” By various developmental twists, disinterested is now used in both senses. Uninterested is used mainly in the sense “not interested, indifferent.” It is occasionally used to mean “not having a personal or property interest.”
Many object to the use of disinterested to mean “not interested, indifferent.” They insist that disinterested can mean only “impartial”: A disinterested observer is the best judge of behavior. However, both senses are well established in all varieties of English, and the sense intended is almost always clear from the context.

end of quote

I will admit, that prior to looking it up I would have agreed that the teacher used the word incorrectly, but clearly she or he didn't. You owe them, and us, an apology.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. An apology?!

Surely you jest. :rofl:

[REP]

63. I'm sorry those students don't have someone to teach them English properly

Seen any "burqas" in your classroom lately? :rofl:

[dsc]

68. I am not sure what the burqas crack is

but I found yet another citation, this one from Miriam-Webster which backs me up and not you. That makes me 2 and you 0. Oh and even more priceless, they actually state that a good use of it was pretty much what that teacher did. If the bruqas crack is a reference to my spelling ability, I plead guilty as charged, I am a poor speller and a moderate at best typist. I don't use spell check here as much as I should. I also don't teach spelling, or English for that matter. The difference is, I don't hypocrically and falsely it must be said, hold myself out as the spelling and grammar police.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. It's a reference to a thread I started

which apparently our friend here didn't understand. Way too deep for him I guess. But then if you easily confuse prefixes like 'dis' and 'un', deeper concepts are beyond your reach.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Nope but I see a lot of assholes here

:rofl:

[Catshrink]

73. We're surrounded - or feels that way at times

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. And by the way,

the principal doesn't teach English.

Keep on diggin. Eventually you'll be deep enough that you can't get out.

[REP]

61. Everything on line is true and accurate - oh wait. It isn't

That definition isn't correct, but if you like it ...

I stand by my statement.

[dsc]

65. care to offer any evidence

I actually did offer a citation, and one which you have done nothing to show is wrong, except point out that it is online. Oh and by the way here is Miriam-Webster on the same subject

Disinterested and uninterested have a tangled history. Uninterested originally meant impartial, but this sense fell into disuse during the 18th century. About the same time the original sense of disinterested also disappeared, with uninterested developing a new sense—the present meaning—to take its place. The original sense of uninterested is still out of use, but the original sense of disinterested revived in the early 20th century. The revival has since been under frequent attack as an illiteracy and a blurring or loss of a useful distinction. Actual usage shows otherwise. Sense 2 of disinterested is still its most frequent sense, especially in edited prose; it shows no sign of vanishing. A careful writer may choose sense 1a of disinterested in preference to uninterested for emphasis <teaching the letters of the alphabet to her wiggling and supremely disinterested little daughter — C. L. Sulzberger>. Further, disinterested has developed a sense (1b), perhaps influenced by sense 1 of the prefix dis-, that contrasts with uninterested <when I grow tired or disinterested in anything, I experience a disgust — Jack London (letter, 1914)>. Still, use of senses 1a and 1b will incur the disapproval of some who may not fully appreciate the history of this word or the subtleties of its present use.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disinterested

I suppose we now don't trust Webster since I found it online and not on my bookshelf. You were 100 percent wrong. What I really love is that they use pretty much the same exact example as the teacher does.

[madfloridian]

67. Exactly right. Either is acceptable.

[dsc]

69. unlike the other poster

I will cop to not knowing that without looking it up.

[liberalhistorian]

70. So you, yourself, know better than even actual

dictionaries, including Meriam-Webster? LOL. Just can't stand the facts getting in the way of your teacher-bashing. What the fuck ever.

[madfloridian]

82. I checked 3 online dictionaries. You are wrong.

You can stand by your statement until hell freezes over, but you are still wrong.

[chervilant]

53. hmm...

What IS the difference, O Erudite One?

Like many who've posted hereinabove, I wondered if (when) a naysayer would crawl out of the woodwork, and here you are!

So, I'll ask you some of the questions I've begun asking your ilk, and let's see if you can come up with defensible responses:

1) Can you find ANY data to assuage madfloridian's concerns about this administration's bizarre and misleading targeting of 'bad teachers' and 'villainous unions' as the 'threat du jour' to our system of public education?

2) Is there ANYTHING you can bring to the table that contradicts madfloridian's extensive research regarding this administration's egregious mishandling of education reform?

What's that I hear? A cacaphony of crickets!

[liberalhistorian]

59. And do y'all notice the

deafening sound of the continued cacaphony of crickets? Guess they're all in that teacher-union-bashing thread some idiot started blaming teachers and unions for the high dropout rate, with NO mention whatsoever of parents and poverty. Sigh.

[REP]

62. Please. Go find me there.

Some teachers are bad. They really truly are. The one cited is obviously not proficient in English.

[madfloridian]

66. Oh wait! Your motto is "respek knuckles"?

[chervilant]

78. And,

is your ignore list getting as long as mine?

[chervilant]

79. hmm...

So much nicer with that pathetic naysayer and his annoyingly flashy knuckle-thingy on ignore.

[donco6]

49. It works the same way in low-income schools.

Teachers who choose to stay there, regardless of opportunities to move to wealthier schools, will suffer careerwise as their school continues to be pounded with sanctions and firings. This guarantees these schools will only have newbie, inexperienced teachers forever and ever. Some plans try to solve this with additional funds for teachers who stay, but that only works so long. After you've been beaten up so much, you start aching to find out if you really are a "bad" teacher. I got around that by teaching at university as an adjunct and finding that I really was pretty good at it. But not everyone gets that chance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. That means I really do suck

:rofl:

[donco6]

58. Only to Arne.

And he don't count.

[jwirr]

54. My sister would have scored zero. She taught a class of 14+ boys

who no one else in the school wanted. They acted out continually but she did not give up. Many of them are still her friends now that she has retired. This is certainly a throw-away world.

[Greyhound]

75. K&R. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something...

when his job depends on not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

As long as we accept the frame that this is an attempt to make education in the U.S. better, we will see more degradation in the results. NCLB and the Obama administration's further perversion of this monstrosity has one goal and one goal only, turning our national education system into a corporate profit stream, period.

[Catshrink]

76. kick

[dkf]

81. Actually there was always something at stake for teachers...time, effort and hard work.

Sad thing is now teachers have even more reasons to avoid helping kids who are behind. And the irony is it was probably someone else dropping the ball that gets current teachers to the point where someone sucker has to take a hit for the team.

Where is the sympathy for the kids now that teachers have even more of an attitude of "it's not worth it".