Why Do We Let In Cubans But Not Mexicans?

[ThomWV]

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, I really don't understand the difference. If someone makes it to our shores from Cuba they are allowed to enter this country. Let the same person cross over to the northern bank of the Rio Grande and we put them in a truck and ship them back. Is there something that makes an entering alien from Cuba desirable but one from Mexico not?

[meegbear]

1. The reasoning is that Cubans are escaping from a communist country ...

and can get sanctuary if they reach the US.

Mexico does not have that distinction.

[Cobalt Violet]

Do the Chinese get sanctuary too?

I didn't think they did. I could be wrong.

[meegbear]

5. That I don't know ...

this could also be a hangover from the 60's embargo.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. No they have as much trouble coming in as Central Americans

The wait is more than 2 years for the Chinese.

[ThomWV]

3. OK, that makes sense. Do we treat Chinese people just like Cubans?

Someone makes it to this country from mainland China and wants to stay, do we say welcome to the US and here's your green card? How about Albania; isn't it still communist, or did it collapse before it got the chance to switch?

[meegbear]

6. Don't know ...

but it's a good question. Knowing the government, there's criteria for each country.

[hlthe2b]

7. We just make sure the Chinese, like the Haitians don't get here...

Sadly, all their boats develop disastrous leaks and malfunctions...:sarcasm:

[USA_1]

Cuban Lobby Groups ...

... are far stronger and better financed. They buy off Washington pols and have their pals in the news media to support their views.

[zbdent]

24. They are hoping that they can reclaim land that they held before

Castro overthrew the old regime ... so that they can sell it to developers for amazing amounts of money ...

[ck4829]

2. Most Cubans vote Republican

That's why.

[ThomWV]

4. Doesn't explain why both Carter and Clinton continued the policy.

That's 12 years.

[hlthe2b]

10. Clinton had a REPUBLICAN House & Senate

Carter had a short term with things like Iranian hostage crisis, gas embargo and accompanying energy crisis, and a few other extremely pressing issues, I guess...

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. Not in 1993 and 1994

[hlthe2b]

20. Come now... he'd already disastrously lost the bid to integrate

gays in the military and had to capitulate to a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, his health care reform agenda had gone down in flames... and the Scaife-funded RW was going after him with all guns blazing since day one...Do you really have to ask, Freddie, why Clinton could not take on Cuba policy? Good God!

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. Most of those things were not yet a problem in 1993

Perhaps he didn't change the policy because he didn't want to.

[hlthe2b]

25. He came in with two priorities: the economy and health care

Which he went to work on immediately. I would say they were the right priorities, wouldn't YOU?

Both issues were definitely his from the campaign. What history is it that you are remembering, Freddie? I'm at a loss. :shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. So, you're saying he didn't campaign on sending Cubans back like other illegal migrants?

I agree. ;)

[hlthe2b]

40. back at ya...

;)

[KharmaTrain]

8. "Political" Vs. "Economic" Refugee

This is a simple answer to a very complex question, but it boils down to the fact Cuba still has a Castro and his communist regime, Cubans were given political refugee status in the 60s similar to what was granted to Eastern Europeans in the 50s. The rule says that if you can get here, the US Government is obligated to let them seek asylum. That's why you see the Coast Guard try to intercept Cuban boats before they reach shore, cause once they hit the beach, they have the right to apply for asylum and it's usually granted. Also, the Cuban political machine in Miami has always had a lot of pull with both parties.

Mexicans are another, sad story. They're not political, but economic refugees...fleeing from an economic oppression...one that has been created by the economic power of 800 Pound Gorilla across the Rio Grande. Since the cheap labor benefits American corporations...whereas Castro nationalized American businesses...the social and political problems are overlooked...and now Mexicans make a convenient whipping boy for all sorts of social and economic ills and has been politicized by the Repugnicans as another wedge issue.

Plus, it's amazing how little this discussion involves the large number of undocumented foreigners from European and Asian countries...people who got visas or entered on a passport and never left.

[Bridget Burke]

12. Yup, there are "illegals" from all over.

Check out p45.net....
www.p45.net/omatics/american/american.html

[bullimiami]

9. republican politics and power.

[genie_weenie]

13. What are the numbers?

Much more difficult for a person to get here from Cuba than for a person to cross over from Mexico.

And I thought a significant number of the immigrants crossing from Mexico were Guatamelans, Columbians and other central and south americans?

[ThomWV]

16. I'm not sure about that

I don't know where they all come from, but I'm sure you're right. Probably a lot of people who come over our southwestern border come from countries other than Mexico and only pass through that country on their way here.

I doubt that its any easier to get here from Mexico than it is from Cuba though. As a person who has spent a great deal of his life in deep water in small boats I have to tell you I'd much rather take a boat across the Straights of Florida than walk the length of Mexico. The boat would be safer, faster, and probably offer greater chance of completing the journey successfully.

[Jamastiene]

14. People from communist countries often vote Republican

once they get here. The ones who do vote Republican see Democrats as Communist sympathizers. Democrats don't always have huge anti-immigrant policies and if they got most of the dems and half the repubs on their side, they are in like Flynn.

And for the record, we don't "let" them in. They go through hell and half of the Atlantic Ocean to get here. If they are in 7 or 8 feet of water and can hold their breath and manage to have their feet on land, they can stay. That's the rule. They get asylum. That's all there is to it, really.

If anything, we should ask what's so bad in Mexico that they want in here so bad. Maybe we need to give the Mexicans asylum too.

[ThomWV]

21. Half of the Atlantic?

Its only 90 miles from Cuba to Key West, less than 400 from Havana to Miami.

On a typical fishing day I take my 20-year-old 23' boat out past the continental shelf (it ends 34 miles out where I fish) and will travel around 150 miles. I've been doing that for two decades (I'm an old man) in my current boat and for two decades in other boats before that. Trust me, 90 miles is not that much, those waters are no where near the most dangerous to be found - not by a long shot - good weather information is available for the area to anyone with a radio, and navigation due north is not something beyond the seafaring ability of just about anyone who would get in a boat in the first place.

So although I know that a lot of very desperate people have died making the trip in poor craft, with no idea what they are doing, or at the wrong time, that in itself does not mean that the trip is extremely dangerous. After all, wouldn't one expect a certain amount of expertise with the sea from people from a small island nation? Its not like boats are strange sights to people from most of Cuba or that their operation is a mystery to those good people either.

Now the crossing from Haiti, that's different. If you were to leave from the west tip of Cuba in a good sized inner tube you'd end up somewhere just south of Miami. You leave from Haiti even in a sound craft and its about as likely they'll find your withered corpse somewhere off the coast of Nova Scotia as it is you'll even see the US shoreline.

[Jamastiene]

28. Sure. You are right. They could just swim across just as easily

too. :rofl: I doubt very seriously they can afford a nice boat to sail away from Cuba. Most of them HAVE to come across in crappy crafts to get here. That's the whole point. They can't exactly board a cruise and come sailing in to port. If they could just yacht on over here any time they please, why would they want to leave Cuba in the first place?

[ThomWV]

31. Compare that to walking from Gautama

No one said anything about yachts. In fact even the mention of yachts was a silly thing for you to do because other than some boats that have been confiscated by the Cuban navy we know of no yachts available in Cuba at all.

No, its more likely for a cuban to make the passage on a small wooden boat, probably powered by sail and probably over crowded. Its still no great feat. 90 miles of water that is calm as a farm pond about 100 days out of the year is clearly not an impassable barrier, as has been proved by tens of thousands of Cubans who have safely made the trip.

No to put that into perspective compare it to walking the length of Mexico and just to make it a little more interesting lets make our person on the march a young attractive woman or a young fellow with a small wad of pesos. Starting to see how that might not be a stroll in the countryside? Give me the boat and 90 miles of water.

[Jamastiene]

34. Lighten up.

It was a joke. Didn't you notice all the misplaced references to boats and yachts and other stuff. The real reason is still the fact that many Cubans (and others who escape communist countries) end up voting Republican. That gives them power. It's still a simple answer. Chill. :pals:

[Solly Mack]

15. ....

Cubans are fleeing oppression and people come to America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, seeking freedom from oppression and to gain opportunity...Castro is pure evil - socialists and communists are evil and anti-American. (fear socialism and communism)

Mexicans want to take your jobs, take your women, and force you to speak Spanish (fear them)


Both statements are emotional appeals - primarily fear

and both serve the purpose of manipulating Americans into thinking a certain way

I'm only speaking to how people are manipulated

[blondeatlast]

17. Cubans are escaping an evil, hideous, awful, despotic dictator who

will stop at nothing to keep himself in power (he does it all so that Americans can't have those lovely Cuban cigars, you know--pretty clever. I told you he'd stop at nothing...).

Mexicans just want our jobs**.

Almost forgot: Cubans also overwhelmingly vote RRRepublican, but of course that has nothing whatsoever to do with the prevailing attitude to them in this country, nothing at all... :sarcasm: again...

**(end sarcasm, insert reality here) are escaping grinding poverty, rampant unemployment; and a corrupt government that is more than happy to see them go.

Geez, can't you see why the those poor oppressed Cubans are so much more desirable? Can't you see why political oppression is an awful thing to endure and must not be tolerated in the Americas, but economic oppression is just the free market at work and so no one has any right to complain about it?

You must be a pinko...

[ShaneGR]

18. Political Asylum vs Economic Hardship

Basically the policy is that Castro's Cuba disciminates against dissenters via prison sentances and other means while most Mexicans enter the country due to economic hardship and are face no retribution upon their return.

You would have a better argument if you brought up Haitians vs Cubans.

[Judi Lynn]

33. From a book written by Ann Louise Bardach, former NY Times journalist,

and author, a woman who has researched Cuba in the States and in Cuba, concerning the Cubans who come and go from Cuba, or did, until _{George W. Bush} completely slammed the door shut on their travel back and forth to their island. The book was published in 2002:

In Cuba, one used to be either a revolucionario or a contrarevolucionario, while those who decided to leave were gusanos (worms) or escoria (scum). In Miami, the rhetoric has also been harsh. Exiles who do not endorse a confrontational policy with Cuba, seeking instead a negotiated settlement, have often been excoriated as traidores (traitors) and sometimes espías (spies). Cubans, notably cultural stars, who visit Miami but choose to return to their homeland have been routinely denounced. One either defects or is repudiated.

But there has been a slow but steady shift in the last decade-a nod to the clear majority of Cubans en exilio and on the island who crave family reunification. Since 1978, more than one million airline tickets have been sold for flights from Miami to Havana. Faced with the brisk and continuous traffic between Miami and Havana, hard-liners on both sides have opted to deny the new reality. Anomalies such as the phenomenon of reverse balseros, Cubans who, unable to adapt to the pressures and bustle of entrepreneurial Miami, return to the island, or gusañeros, expatriots who send a portion of their earnings home in exchange for unfettered travel back and forth to Cuba (the term is a curious Cuban hybrid of gusano and compañero, or comrade), are unacknowledged by both sides, as are those who live in semi-exilio, returning home to Cuba for long holidays.


Page XVIII
Preface
Cuba Confidential
Love and Vengeance
In Miami and Havana

Copyright© 2002 by
Ann Louise Bardach

~~~~~~~~~
It would seem she holds a different view from yours.

[papau]

19. Batista-GOP dictator support made families wealthy - and JFK gave no air cover

to the GOP (via the GOP'S control of the CIA) little 1200 man army and its invasion of Cuba.

Many of today's Cuban Americans have no family money history tied up with Batista - but it was the formerly, and with assets outside the country of Cuba, still rich Cubans of the late 50's that formed the opinion that still runs the community.

So the GOP rewards them for voting "right".

[Tesha]

26. Emegre Cubans are reliable Republican voters. (NT)

[OzarkDem]

27. Last time I checked

there were still hundreds of thousands of Mexicans coming into the US every week. Did I miss something?

[JANdad]

35. By your estimates then...

That would mean that approximatley 10.4M Mexicans are coming here annually (You did write "hundreds of thousands" right?) So given the plural (X2 multiplyer) that would mean that the entire population of Mexico should be here in what, 10 years???

Watch it...your soul is bared...

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. Don't exaggerate.

Thousands, yeah. Tens of thousands, maybe, on a good week. Hundreds of thousands? Absurd. That would be at least 5.2 million each year, or 52 million in the past 10 years, rather than the @12 million total we have today.

Hysterics are not necessary.

[bunkerbuster1]

29. FL's Electoral votes

This has been another edition of "Simple Answers to Simple Questions."

[Yavin4]

36. BINGO!!!! Electoral Votes Drive All Kinds of Bad National Policies

Ethanol. Agricultural subsidies. Military spending. Etc.

A good policy wonk should write a book on how electoral votes drive national policy.

[bunkerbuster1]

38. I dream of a day when the electoral college is eliminated via Constitutional amendment

I know it likely won't happen in my lifetime, but I sure wish it would.

[Yavin4]

42. A Permanent Progressive Majority Would Then Commence

We would be more like Europe over night.

[bunkerbuster1]

43. Every conservative's nightmare

where do I sign?

[mitchum]

30. Because the Miami Crybabies have hijacked US policy

[tanyev]

37. I wondered that last year when there was so much outrage over

protestors waving Mexican flags, but nary a peep when Cubans in Florida were waving Cuban flags to celebrate Castro's "imminent" death.

[Hamlette]

41. they also get public assistance, no other groups do

(unless they meet other criteria which is very difficult)

Also, Cuba remains the only country Americans cannot visit.

And, Lieberman first won his Senate seat, from a great republican called Wieker, because Wieker was trying to change the laws to allow travel to Cuba. Lieberman got funding from the crazy Cuban groups here in America to get Weiker out of the Senate.

Dems should just give up on Florida and change the law. It's the right thing to do. Maybe the persecution of Michael Moore will open the debate in this country.

[ecstatic]

44. Both groups are generally "let in." It's the Haitians who are returned nt