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Is The NY TIMES An Institute of War Criminality?

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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:06 PM
Original message
Is The NY TIMES An Institute of War Criminality?
http://www.newsrealblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/New-York-Times-GD5406483@Jonathan-Glancey-arch-8994.jpg

Are those in the Media- NYT, NPR, AP etc. who promoted the War Agenda War Criminals?

The NY Times the grandest of American institutions heralded as a liberal bastion of news coverage and reportage perpetuated and disseminated the lies of The State which led to the deaths of several hundred thousand Iraqis.

Tell me how they are different than the Nazi propagandists who were tried and found guilty?

Say it again since as it is true:

The august New York Times is an institution of war criminality!


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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Provide some specifics, please. n/t
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Sure, that's easy
We can thank the front page of the New York Times for getting us into Iraq, by repeatedly "catapulting the propaganda" (Bush's own phrase) from the White House.

Now, more than three years into the Times' disastrous war, the Times front page is still "catapulting the propaganda" to cover up the fact that Bush is a war criminal who launched a war of aggression on the basis of lies.

...

http://www.democrats.com/node/8337

Fatal Error: Lies of The Times, Their Lies Took Lives
Exceptiontorulers

By Amy Goodman and David Goodman

In our new book, The Exception To the Rulers: Exposing Oily Politicians, War Profiteers and the Media That Love Them, we titled one chapter "The Lies of Our Times" to examine how The New York Times coverage on Iraq and its alleged stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction helped lead the country to war. Today, The New York Times, for the first time, raised questions about its own coverage in an 1,100-word editor’s note. Here is an excerpt from our section of the book on the New York Times and Iraq.

...

When George W. Bush and Tony Blair made their fraudulent case to attack Iraq, The Times, along with most corporate media outlets in the United States, became cheerleaders for the war. And while Jayson Blair was being crucified for his journalistic sins, veteran Times national security correspondent and best-selling author Judith Miller was filling The Times’ front pages with unchallenged government propaganda. Unlike Blair’s deceptions, Miller’s lies provided the pretext for war. Her lies cost lives.

If only The New York Times had done the same kind of investigation of Miller’s reports as it had with Jayson Blair.

The White House propaganda blitz was launched on September 7, 2002, at a Camp David press conference. British Prime Minister Tony Blair stood side by side with his co-conspirator, President George W. Bush. Together, they declared that evidence from a report published by the UN International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) showed that Iraq was "six months away" from building nuclear weapons.

"I don’t know what more evidence we need," crowed Bush.

Actually, any evidence would help-there was no such IAEA report. But at the time, few mainstream American journalists questioned the leaders’ outright lies. Instead, the following day, "evidence" popped up in the Sunday New York Times under the twin byline of Michael Gordon and Judith Miller. "More than a decade after Saddam Hussein agreed to give up weapons of mass destruction," they stated with authority, "Iraq has stepped up its quest for nuclear weapons and has embarked on a worldwide hunt for materials to make an atomic bomb, Bush administration officials said today."

...

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/5/26/online_exclusive_fatal_error_lies_of

Do you want me to go into this at length? I thought this was all common knowledge.

Tell me what you think after reading this. I've got many more examples.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Miller and Blair were fired
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 09:36 PM by MannyGoldstein
As was Howell Raines, the swine who ran the Times during that dark period.

The Times holds people accountable.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The Times broke the warrentless wiretapping story
After being threatened personally by Bush at the White House.
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. How many Iraqis
were dead by then? How many more would die as the damage was already done?

Should we go on?

New York Times Rewrites Fallujah History

11/16/04

November 16, 2004


(NOTE: Please read the update to this alert .)

In three recent reports about the military invasion of the Iraqi city of Fallujah, the New York Times has misreported the facts about the April 2004 invasion of the city and the toll it took on Iraqi civilians.

On November 8, the Times reported: "In April, American troops were closing in on the city center when popular uprisings broke out in cities across Iraq. The outrage, fed by mostly unconfirmed reports of large civilian casualties, forced the Americans to withdraw. American commanders regarded the reports as inflated, but it was impossible to determine independently how many civilians had been killed."

The next day, the Times made the same point, reporting that the U.S. "had to withdraw during a previous fight for the city in April after unconfirmed reports of heavy civilian casualties sparked outrage among both Sunni and Shiite Iraqis." And on November 15, the Times noted that the current operation "redressed a disastrous assault on Fallujah last April that was called off when unconfirmed reports of large civilian casualties drove the political cost too high."

It's unclear why the Times considers those civilian deaths "unconfirmed." While there is some debate over precise figures, this wording leaves the impression that nothing can be reasonably known about deaths in Fallujah.

...

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1999

The Times hold people accountable? That's pretty funny if it were so grisly. The consequences of what they have done and do on a daily basis are staggering.

How can you defend the NY Times? As the major mouthpiece of this criminal State they are complicit.

They do it in so many different ways as is the case with any propagandist.

========

The sustained activism around the Downing Street Memo compelled some in the media to explore why it had elicited such little coverage. The New York Times’ new public editor, Byron Calame, took up the case in his first foray into representing readers (NYTimes.com, 5/20/05), prompted by what he called “a flood of reader email.”

According to Calame, Times Washington bureau chief Phil Taubman explained that he felt the Downing Street Memo was simply the “interpretation” of the British head of intelligence and therefore “not a smoking gun that proved that Bush, Tenet and others were distorting intelligence to support the case for war.” Calame deemed Taubman’s defense “holding fast to a high reporting standard.” Given the extremely flimsy evidence the Times required for stories that supported the Bush administration’s drive for war, that would seem to be not a high standard but a double standard.

NPR cast a more critical eye on the Times’ coverage of the memo. On the May 22 Weekend Edition, NPR senior news analyst Daniel Schorr called the memo “the under-covered story of the year,” singling out the New York Times for its failure to “get around to reporting it until last week and on an inside page, apparently no big deal.” While the criticism is on target, it’s a curious exercise in finger-pointing, since the story was apparently even less of a big deal at NPR, which had run exactly zero reports on the memo up to that point—a fact that went unmentioned in Schorr’s report.

Washington Post ombudsman Michael Getler (5/8/05) initially noted that Post readers had complained about the lack of reporting on the memo, but offered no explanation for why the paper virtually ignored the story; the next week, after FAIR referred in a media advisory (5/10/05) to Getler’s lack of comment, he revisited the issue (5/15/05) in much more detail. (The ombud gave backhanded credit to FAIR and the group Media Matters for America—both “self-described media watchdog organizations”—for prompting him to delve into the story.)

...

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2612
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Did the NY Times start the war in Iraq?
Of course not. They fucked up and fired the scoundrels.

Are you as mad at Clinton, Kerry, and the other "Democrats" who actually did vote for war? Are you as mad at Obama for being OK with war crimes?
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Are you familiar with The Nuremburg Trials?
Of course the NY Times did not "start the war" which is a very simplistic analysis in the first place.

However that does not matter one iota when discussing culpability as clearly laid out in the Nuremburg Principles.

Are you familiar with how the Nazi propagandists were tried and found guilty? The case was not built around them, "starting the war", whatever that even means.

My attitude towards others who may or may not be complicit is not the issue here so let's not dilute the topic, though it is certainly an important topic and little discussed these days.

To simply say they "fucked up" is really horrifically dismissive.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well... one of us is very familiar with those trials
I suggest that you have some studying to do.

In the mean time - should Clinton, Kerry, and the rest (including Bushco) go to trial for starting the wars?
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Everyone responsible should be held accountable
including the propagandists. Don't you agree?

Obviously you are not familiar with the details of the Nuremberg Trials. If you were you couldn't possibly defend the NY Times as it was grossly culpable. I suggest you have some studying to do.


“The basic method of the Nazi propagandistic activity lay in the false presentation of facts. ... The dissemination of provocative lies and the systematic deception of public opinion were as necessary to the Hitlerites for the realization of their plans as were the production of armaments and the drafting of military plans. Without propaganda, founded on the total eclipse of the freedom of press and of speech, it would not have been possible for German Fascism to realize its aggressive intentions, to lay the groundwork and then to put to practice the war crimes and the crimes against humanity. In the propaganda system of the Hitler State it was the daily press and the radio that were the most important weapons.”





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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. And therein lies the key
The Nazi propagandists who were brought to justice at Nuremberg engaged in "the systematic deception of public opinion" like Fox "News", they had an agenda and consistently made crap up in order to fit that agenda. They did this knowingly and over many years.

The Times had a few incompetent/evil employees that published wrong info that had come from official (although evil) sources. When the Times realized what was going on, the scoundrels got the boot, right away. The lies were an aberration, not a long-term trend. The Times has even admitted that they fucked up.

Did the Nazis (or Fox News) do anything like hiring Krugman and Rich, or breaking the warrentless wiretapping story, and so forth? Again, these things demonstrate that the Times is fundamentally a good organization.
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. You are deeply wrong
The NY Times does absolutely have an agenda and only in a more slick fashion makes up story after story to suit that agenda. It's even worse. The way they tell the story as well as what they leave out is classic propaganda technique. If you are not aware of how they do it you are open to the manipulation.

To suggest the times has a few "bad apples" is ludicrous and completely misses the point. The Times has only journalists who recite the catechism of big business and parrot the line of the ruling class. As the paper of record the Times is a fundamentally corrupt outfit and does it's work well, which is to defend the depredations of The State through slick propaganda.

========

"I never saw a foreign intervention that the Times did not support, never saw a fare increase or a rent increase or a utility rate increase that it did not endorse, never saw it take the side of labor in a strike or lockout, or advocate a raise for underpaid workers. And don't let me get started on universal health care and Social Security. So why do people think the Times is liberal?"

-- John Hess, a veteran reporter for the New York Times, WBAI, 10/14/03
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. I'M mad at all those people, for what it's worth.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Tell this to the families of two of the Times reporters
that were murdered after reporting trying to expose the ongoing torture by US trained death squads in Iraq.......
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Ironic isn't it?
Perhaps the Times should also pay reparations to those reporters families and admit to their complicity in drumming up support for this illegal and barbaric massacre in which these two reporters were tragically destroyed.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Much as I'd like to see a few "journalists" strung up (Judith Miller)
Seems to me the case is pretty weak in this instance.

Besides our Democratic administration won't even prosecute the people who actually DID the crimes like bush and cheney. So how can we expect them to go after those who enabled them?
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. You might as well accuse yourself -are you a war criminal as a citizen of the western world
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 09:17 PM by stray cat
And are Muslims all terrorists?
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Oh no
I fastidiously research all things and avoid backing any and all who are party to war crimes. Don't you?

I also actively protest against all these acts. What about you?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. YES
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. Are you having lots of fun with this?
Because tomorrow I am going to buy the NYT for the first time in years. I like their reporting on the secret money.

And I plan to support their good work.
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Lovely
...Swinton outraged his colleagues by replying:

There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it.

There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone.

The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press?

We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.


...

http://www.constitution.org/pub/swinton_press.htm

Don't forget the ads. Lots of them. Such good work.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. The NY Times has always backed the government and then
apologized years later for it. So, I have to say yes.

They deliberately participated in lying us into every war.

When they have evidence of government corruption they check with the government to find out when it's okay to release that story, often waiting until after an election cycle or until a Friday news dump, or else they bury news on back pages so that it doesn't get seen and doesn't have an impact.

When people protest against the government they always bias their stories to side with the government.

Their op ed pages have always had far more conservatives than liberals. Their news stories treat unnamed government sources as if they never lie and never have motives for anything they leak, so the NY Times becomes the willing tool of the conservative end of government propaganda.

Yes, they have admitted they were wrong several time. They admitted they were wrong to believe the Reagan Administration's lies about Central America. But only long after the damage was done. Yes, they admitted they were wrong about the lies that got us into the current wars, but only after were already mired in these wars.

Spending years doing the wrong thing, lying to millions of people, causing wars and millions of deaths isn't something that is forgiven with just an apology. Especially when you keep doing it AGAIN!

It would be different if they were learning from their mistakes. But their apologies clearly are only meant to get us to look the other way while they fool us again the next time. And the next time. And the next.

How often are we supposed to fall for the same B.S.?
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. "The august New York Times is an institution of war criminality!"
Say it again and again...K&R
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R nt
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. Decades ago, Noam Chomsky exposed the NYT's perfidious coverage,
or lack thereof, of events in East Timor and elsewhere.
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jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
25. The war machine couldn't flourish
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 09:39 PM by jeanpalmer
without the backing of the media, including the Times and other MSM. The Times was instrumental in getting us into Iraq. Seems like that requires more than a mea culpa. If a newspaper could be charged with war crime, the Times should be. Try them and convict them, if people want to buy their newspaper after that, so be it.

Many convicted murderers have done good deeds in their lives but are nevertheless convicted.

Has there been any effort by them to get us out of Iraq or Afghanistan? Did they object to Obama's escalation?
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