Republicans are people, just like you.

[kentuck]

They love their country just as you do. They vote for what they think is best for the country. Do you think that is not true?

If they win the House and/or Senate, should the Democrats work with them in a "bi-partisan" way because, in our democracy, the people decide what they want the government to do or whether or not they want a government at all? Just because they did not work with Democrats does not mean the Democrats should not work with them, right?

Has political warfare turned into something more hateful and destructive? Has it gotten to the point where you actually despise Republicans and their ideas? Do you sometimes think they are naive morons who will believe anything their Party tells them and will continue to vote against their own interests and the interests of their children for their Party's sake?

Where does it end? In revolution? In Third World Poverty? In apathy? Nothing good can come from people that cannot distinguish fact from fiction or the truth from lies. Nothing good can come from people that refuse to even search for the truth. It's all a game, no more than monopoly. Except people live and die with their decisions when they win. Politics has become a very depressing business.

[LiberalAndProud]

1. The Republican agenda is destructive.

They bring no good ideas. They have bankrupted our treasury and stolen our social security. What good will come from bipartisanship, when that only means capitulation to their destructive policies?

Had they shown good faith in bipartisanship over the last two years, I might feel differently. Now, I have no use for the concept.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. "whack jobs on both sides"... +1 to that... n/t

[calimary]

29. Oh brother. Spare me that idiotic "both sides! both sides!" argument.

That's like comparing a brick to a grain of aquarium gravel.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. right...cause everyone one both sides is totally sane

and i really equated the two parties with that simple approval...

spare me your attempt to stretch this into a condemnation of the Democratic Party...

sP

[ClassWarrior]

40. You do realize that the "both sides" argument is one of the most effective...

...rhetorical tools that RWers use to deflect blame for their criminality?

So go ahead and push that frame, but please understand that it damages the progressive agenda.

NGU.

[calimary]

44. It absolutely does give them cover, and it doesn't tell the complete truth!

Seems to me it makes a rather large difference when you equate two opposing sides and assign equal weight and significance to both. That would only be true, fair, and accurate if both sides WERE equal.

Example: Okay so maybe both Dems and CONS receive campaign donations from outside entities. Didn't we all recently hear that such fundraising was running SEVEN-TO-ONE in favor of the GOP? Please tell me how the "oh both sides do it! Both sides! Both sides!" reflects this monumental inaccuracy and indeed INequality. To stand realistically by the "both sides! Both sides!" argument you'd need to prove that both Dems and CONS were raking it in at a one-to-one ratio.

And yes, the wrong wing loves to excuse and water down its own culpability by trying to spread the blame around so GOPers/CONservatives thus can escape becoming the only targets for finger-pointing. Classic schoolyard misbehavior retort: "SHE started it!!!!" "Oh yeah? Well HE did it TOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

It is a rhetorical and psy-ops tactic and it DOES make a difference - a BIG difference - in the way issues are framed and debate is shaped and managed, controlled and dominated. It's all about perception management. You manage how people think about something or someone, and then you can get them to vote the way you want or provide news coverage the way you want. You can put your thumb on one side of the scale and exert undue and undeserved influence.

And it's important to become savvy about recognizing tactics like this when you come across them, and blow the whistle on it.

[LiberalAndProud]

5. On the street level means nothing.

Republicans in office have mocked the process of negotiation and slapped our president with it. Better ideas? WHERE?

I call bullshit.

[Doctor_J]

7. Really? Who are the Dem/left whack jobs that are going to be elected?

:wtf: are you talking about?

[TBF]

12. "Most republicans I know are not that far apart from dems I know

and some are better informed by far and have better ideas"

Interesting response. If you feel so strongly about republican ideas why post on a democratic website? Just curious. Although this does explain many of your other posts ...

[muffin1]

14. +1,000,000 n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Who are the Democratic 'wack jobs' getting elected?

You say they are on both sides. Who are the Democratic wack jobs? I say there are none to compare to the likes of Bachmann. Not one.
It is your claim, you should back it up or retract.

[WhiteTara]

3. GOTV and don't go there yet

I don't think they "love" their country. They only love the idea of it and what it can give them.

[Fla_Democrat]

6. Someone hack your account?

http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100000822


:evilgrin:



:smoke:

[OHdem10]

8. IMHO, here is where things have gone wrong. Increasingly over

the past decades the Republicans in House and Senate have
become MORE Conservative than their constituencies back home.
The Repubs on the Hill have dug in and brazenly state
I cannot compromise. You have Republicans running races
right now saying they cannot compromise their principles.
They get to DC and this becomes "my way or the high way".

If people are real honest Obama tried to reach out to Republicans
but their idea is 'you change all your positions to mirror
ours or we do not play'. There was a time in this country
in the not to distant past when compromise meant the Dems gave
up something in a bill and the Republicans gave up something
of equal value. This is Bipartisanship.

The Republicans have brainwashed themselves into believing
they must put their RW Policies into effect. Nothing short
of this is acceptable. How can a Democrat with any principles
at all work with them????

One thing may just happen. I pray we keep the House and Senate.
However, if the RWers win and they push their RW Agenda with
all the cutting and belt-tightening, they may push us back into
a deeper Recession. Once and for all it will be out there in
plain view for all to see. RW Policies do not work in Recessions.
and the Democrats may be pushed into WINS for years to come.
History tells us Republicans give us Recessions and Depressions
and Democrats pull us out. The Fourth Estate has abdicated
their responsibility to the country or we would not even be
where we are now. Those who do not remember the past are
bound to repeat it.

[Flubadubya]

16. One comment...

After 8 years of GWB I thought the same thing you did, "Democrats may be pushed into WINS for years to come". That would be from 2008 on, of course.

That was just 2 years ago. How short the collective American memory is! It just flabbergasts me that there is already such a reversal in the American psyche. I don't trust they will ever "get it". Sorry. :cry:

[OHdem10]

21. The Fourth Estate abandoned their responsibilty long ago.

They only present the Politics. Who is up,. who is down.

The Reporters of Consequence in the Past would have reported
on substance. They would have explained the President's Policies.
Instead they put Teabaggers on the air to destroy.

My theory is there will be a change in the Media. It may take
the country really in much deeper trouble to bring this about.

Can anyone imagine the country getting in such a mess when
Sevarid, Smith, Reynolds, Mudd and yes Cronkite were in charge.
Of course Rather was pushed out. The fact that you can have
Right Wing Congressmen telling NPR what to do. I do not
want to hear any criticism of Putin. You would think we have
a State Operated Media who bow the RW.

Where is Huntley BrinKley when you need them????

Change in this country is coming. I hope we do not have
to resort to civil unrest to get it.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

[Jackpine Radical]

25. Ah, but the Republicans excel at shifting the blame.

Any deepening of the depression after they take over (if they do) will be blamed on: 1) Obama's policies including health care; 2) Illegal immigrants and American Muslims; 3) the need to maintain a strong military at all costs in order to "fight terrorism;" 4) climate change theorists and tree huggers; 5) the unemployed "freeloaders"…etc. In other words, they have no end of viable scapegoats, and the answer will always be to push harder in all the wrong (but corporate-friendly) directions, under the theory that we just haven't gone far enough right to obtain the promised benefits.

Hey, it worked for Hitler.

[ClassWarrior]

9. Thanks to meowomon for this...

NGU.

[COLGATE4]

10. You have got to be shitting me! I agree that Rethugs 'love their

country' - the problem is the definition of what that country is. If by their country you mean a white, protestant evangelical theocracy/plutocracy, well yes, they do love their country. And yes, it has gotten me to the point that I despise Republicans. I despise their arrogance, their xenophobia, their indifference to the problems of people less fortunate than themselves. I particularly despise their revered leaders, who could fill the defendants' bench at Nuremberg a second time over for their actions in putting us into two wars which have served only to inflame the entire Middle East, bankrupt our treasury, mortgage our children's' future and cost the lives of some 5,000 of our best young men and women, all for no reason except pursuit of some neocon agenda and the thirst for oil. Where will it end? I don't know. But I do agree with you on one thing - if the Rethuglicans take back Congress, politics will indeed have become a very depressing business.

[handmade34]

11. I used to believe that.

I think Chuck Hegel was the last Republican I could respect... I used to think that they are just like us (with just a different viewpoint), but no more... they have done nothing to help and work cooperatively to make the world a better place for all of us.

[Honeycombe8]

13. Moderate Republicans are people like me, maybe. But not the extremists.

I do NOT believe that they love their country. They are globalists. They back global corporations (who have no heart, no soul, and no country loyalty), and believe wholeheartedly in outsourcing (to the point where they gave companies tax advantages a few years ago to encourage outsourcing).

No, the extremists are not people like me. They don't love their country like I do. This is what I believe, what I have experienced through their actions.

But the moderates of both parties are all people who love their country.

[Motown_Johnny]

15. what they think is their country is a fantasy, and they love that fantasy not the country

they don't know what is in the Constitution and make stuff up that they want to be in it

they pretend that everyone in the country is just like them and that the rest are not real Americans

they don't know what the top tax brackets were when our economy was good and the deficit wasn't a problem so they believe it was low

they don't know where the deficit came from so they make up a story about it that is simply false



that is what they love, not the actual country that we live in


they don't love our country, and if you think about it for a minute you will need to admit that I am right

[bemildred]

18. They are people, they are not just like me.

Politics is and always has been a dirty business. This is nothing.

[WillyT]

19. Ya Mean They ARE Witches ??? - Oh Wait... Have I Got That Right ???

:shrug:

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[ClassWarrior]

20. "I'll go to Washington and do what you'd do..."

"Burn a goat on the steps of the Capitol. I'm Christine O'Donnell, and - again - I am not a witch."

NGU.

[mmonk]

22. They are people but they are not like me.

[nevergiveup]

23. The Republicans I know are not informed at all.

They all watch Fox News. They all hate Obama. They all hate government even though half of them are collecting Social Security and on Medicare. I am not saying they aren't good people but when it comes to politics they do not have the capabilities of looking at the big picture and the really scary thing is that they all vote.

[vixengrl]

24. I can remember registering as a Democrat.

It was, for me, not just about being a liberal, or being a part of the traditon of FDR & JFK, but also, a rejection of the GOP and the things it is associated with. I can understand, to some extent, a personal choice regarding their approach to economics or foreign policy (but I just think history doesnt show their approach, empirically, to be always correct--situations, not ideology, need to determine policy choices) but I can't see how one conscientiously decides to be in the party of McCarthyism, Watergate, Iran/Contra, Iraqgate, the party of the Religious right with its associated anti-woman, anti-gay attitudes (and policies), the party of the southern strategy that depends upon the normalization of racism and bigotry, and hoodwinking of the working man to adopt a point of view favorable to the interests of the wealthy, not to their own interests. Not to mention (but of course, I'm now mentioning it)the party that has become a byword in rejection of science (evolution, climate change) in particular and intellectualism (David Barton as an historian? Krauthammer & Kristol--who are never right about anything ever, are their heavyweights?)in general.

It might be an instance of bigotry myself, but I feel like someone who can look at the history of the GOP over the last 100 years, and some of the out-and-out headcases that are in it currently, and still says this is what they want, is just missing something. And I'm rather sure what they are missing is important and necessary to progress.

[IndianaJoe]

26. I'm a lot like you

I don't see Republicans as being like me at all. The Republicans around me say things like - "I think we should just nuke Iran. Why wait?"; "I hope the Republicans take either the Senate or the House - deadlock is the best thing for this country"; Latinos "are taking American jobs" and blacks "are lazy welfare cheats." They say things like "I'm a Libertarian, big government is inefficient" and I vote Republican "because Obama's a socialist."

Generally, I see Republicans as having little sense of a commonweal. Their ideas are antithetical to the course of American history. Instead of being pluralistic, they espouse uni-culturalism. They lack the ability to empathize with people. The problems of gays, Latinos, blacks, and the poor are foreign to them. Because they've never experienced racism or discrimination, they are unable to relate to anyone else that has. They are blind to the extreme social and economic disparities extant in this country and espouse "solutions" that only exacerbate these inequalities. They are extremely greedy, favoring tax and spending policies that impoverish the masses and enrich the few. They are uninformed and simplistic, incapable of listening to scientific or economic truths and hearing, instead, only the unnuanced garbage that Fox News puts out. They are uncooperative, blind to the major problems afflicting this country and content to vote for and elect those who only put hurdles and impediments in the way of honest people that want to address these problems.

Republicans are not like me at all. I see them as mostly fools, tools and drools. And sooner or later they will be swept aside and relegated to the insignificance that they and their "ideas" truly merit. You can only ignore science, economic facts, demographics, and the popular will so long. Eventually it will bite them in the ass.

[PassingFair]

41. Excellent post, Joe!

I categorize them into the 4 S's:

Selfish
Superstitious
Stupid
Scared

Any one or any combination of the above can
create a Republican voter.

[surrealAmerican]

27. The reality is, that if they do win the House or Senate ...

... there will be no opportunity to work "with" them. They have made that point abundantly clear.

[stillwaiting]

28. Don't worry.

Elected Democrats WILL work with Republicans to help them with their agenda. It's what they do. Even when in the majority.

Your fears will not come to pass.

Republicans never work in a bipartisan way (whether in the majority or the minority). Therefore, our country will continue its rightward trajectory to the satisfaction of Democratic "centrists".

[Zoeisright]

30. They do NOT vote on what "they think is best for the country". They vote based on

greed, stupidity, selfishness, and hate. PERIOD.

[AC_Mem]

31. For the past 2 years

Where were the republicans? They are people, just like us, right? They want what is best for the country, right?

So why did they vote NO and obstruct EVERYTHING?

Why did and do the republicans hate the democrats? Why do the Republicans think that by giving power to corporations it will help the poor?

Your argument does not show that the republicans have set any kind of an example of wanting to work with democrats for the good of America to support your argument for democratic compromise.

And I believe we are going to keep our majority in the House and Senate. So my question to you is:

What are the republicans going to do with a democratic house and senate? What will they do to compromise to move our country out of the ditch and keep us on the road to prosperity?

It ends with people learning compromise through the return of the true process, which is debate and compromise.

It certainly will not happen with obstruction, corruption, buying elections, saying no to everything, and threats of impeachment. Humm - who is the party that is engaged in every one of those?

[Odin2005]

32. The Nazis were people, too.

They "Loved their country" and they "wanted what was best for their country".

The whack-jobs and everyone else increasingly exist in separate, mutually incompatible realities. Compromise and civil dialogue is IMPOSSIBLE under such circumstances.

[AlinPA]

34. I was searching for the words that you just wrote. Thanks, full agreement here.

[librechik]

35. PuKKKes don't have a clue what's good for the country. If they did and the Dems were for it

they would do anything to stop the Dems and the hell with the country. Sure, they're people, but that is just wrong, in light of American principles.

[DFW]

36. Yes, I think that is NOT true.

They do NOT love "their" country just as I do. They think the United States is their country and theirs alone.
I recognize that it is the country of those who think like I do, as well as the country of those who do not.

They do NOT vote for what they think is best for their country. They vote for what they think is best for them
and people like them only, and the ironic thing is that they often end up voting for what is WORST for them.
They have let themselves get talked into believing the opposite due to constant barrage of advertising, as well
as a 24/7 diet of Fox "News" which is like media heroin: it may make you feel good at the time, and dull your
mind into a pleasant state of unthinking bliss, but it destroys your cognitive abilities slowly and surely.

[SmileyRose]

37. Republican politicians do not love the people of this country - they love only themselves

I can't think of a single exception.



edit - typo

[raffiti]

38. One sided

Both parties have their own agenda. One 'for the people by the people' the other 'for yourself by yourself'

But what can be accomplished without bipartisanship when it comes to decision making. At the end of the day all you would have is one side deadlocking the other.

[county worker]

39. When you speak of republicans as people I don't include the elected ones.

Right now I look at it this way. We are in a class struggle to save our way of living. If the right wants to protect the middle class and bring back jobs from overseas, save the environment, rebuild our infrastructure, make education affordable, and any number of things that the working class needs I am for working with them. If they are a bunch of free market corporatists they can go fuck themselves.

The working together shit has to have real outcomes not just working together for bipartisanship's sake.

[kentuck]

42. Well said!

I have been known to play the devil's advocate in order to generate discussion and to get people to think. Personally, I question if they are even human??

[JVS]

43. Unrec for being totally false