Gay voters angry at Democrats could sway election

[ProSense]

Source: Associated Press

CHICAGO – Kate Coatar is seriously considering voting for Green Party candidates instead of Democrats, whom she normally supports. James Wyatt won't cast a ballot at all because he no longer trusts anyone to fight for causes important to him.

If Democratic candidates are counting on long-standing support from gay voters to help stave off big losses on Nov. 2, they could be in for a surprise.

Across the country, activists say gay voters are angry — at the lack of progress on issues from eliminating employment discrimination to uncertainty over serving in the military to the economy — and some are choosing to sit out this election or look for other candidates.

President Barack Obama's hometown of Chicago, with its large, politically and socially active gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community, offers a snapshot of what some are calling the "enthusiasm gap" between voters who came out strong for Obama and other Democrats in 2008 and re-energized Republican base voters, including tea party enthusiasts who say they are primed to storm the polls.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101024/ap_on_el_ge/us_gay_voters

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chulanowa]

2. Good for them?

Once again, not voting doesn't send a message. it actually does the opposite, since it removes any voice you have from the political arena. if the Republicans win, the Democrat response will be to move further to the right, since that seems to be the key to winning. In the meantime, we get a bunch of people in office who think murdering gay people with rocks is perfectly acceptable.

I guess stupid people come in all varieties.

[Fumesucker]

6. IMO the Democrats are going to move to the right after the election no matter what..

That's just the way our PTB roll these days.

[Chulanowa]

9. And someday, everyone you know and love will die!

And the sun will explode, ending the existence of our solar system, leaving only a dark spot full of charred rocks.

Why bother with anything?

[Fumesucker]

14. Nah, I'm the oldest of everyone I know and love..

So I'll most likely die first..

At least that's what I'm hoping, I've lost enough already to strongly wish not to lose any more.

Oh, and the Sun will not explode, it will turn into a red giant and a considerable time later into a white dwarf.

Interesting that you did not deny the Democrats will move to the right after the election, I'm pretty well convinced all the leftist rhetoric coming out of the Dems at the moment is nothing but a head fake.

[Tesha]

33. Actually, voting for the Greens sends a very precise message.

Namely, that Democrats are too far to the right for
many voters.

That's quite a different message than not voting at all.

Tesha

[Dawgs]

34. Actually, they are both the same. They both say that Republican rule is just fine.

Which is the last thing that will move any politician more to the left.

[Tesha]

39. You know, people say that here *ALL* the time, but it ignores the basic fact...

...that a vote recorded for a party *TO THE LEFT OF THE DEMOCRATS*
can't be mistaken for anything else whereas a vote that isn't cast can
be spun by anyone as hypothetical support for any faction.

There's another dynamic at work here as well: One reason the Greens
in America draw so few votes is that people worry that they can't win,
but as they start to draw more and more votes from disaffected Demo-
crats, people will start to believe that the Greens could actually win
and they will be less and less liable to buy this "A vote for the Greens
is a vote for the Republicans" bullshit.

Democrats face a choice here: Drift farther and farther right
into irrelevancy, jettisoning one constituency after another,
or the Democrats can return to their fundamental principles
and re-capture all of the disaffected. I'd personally prefer the
latter, but my party shows no signs yet of coming to its senses.

Tesha

[No Elephants]

43. Media can spin not voting as anything that suits the narrative du jour--and you know

they will never say it means people want to go further left.

[BzaDem]

47. The problem with that theory is that it's bullshit.

Any campaign solely interested in winning would obviously move to the right given a third party showing. Why? Two reasons.

1 is that third party voters are impossible to please. In general, it is impossible to please an irrational entity, and third party voters are no exception.

2 is actually mathematical. An independent vote going from R to D is +2 on the margin, whereas a third party vote to D is just +1. So centrist independent voters are essentially "worth" twice as much as third party voters.

So any candidate, given the choice between trying to get +1 from a third party voter but probably not being able to get it (since you can't please them), vs. getting +2 from a centrist independent that is generally very predictable and responds rationally, is going to go with the latter.

Want to make sure candidates don't move further and further towards the center and the right? That means voting for them, so they don't need as many independent voters to win. You may not like that, but that doesn't mean there's anything you can do about it.

[Tesha]

49. Thanks for that analysis.

I won't sorry so much about going "off the ranch"
in the future since you've said it's "not so bad".

And as I said, I think more and more former very
loyal Democrats will come to that same conclusion
as "Democratic" ploiticians support us less and less.
For example, that "Democratic" fellow down in West
Virginia who's running for the Senate by attacking
(and I quote) "Obamacare".

Tesha

[No Elephants]

44. Voting Green does not say "Republican rule is fine" OR encourage Dems to move right. However,

voting Green may result in Republicans' being elected. I'd rather hold my nose.

BTW, in your opinion, what WOULD move a Democrat further left? Voting Republican won't, of course, but neither will voting for most of today's Dems or staying home. Voting Green is likeliest, if you can stand the pain of maybe helping elect Rethugs. Me, I can't stand that pain. However, if a Dem or leftie tells me he or she is ONLY going to vote Green or stay home, I'd beg them to change their minds and, failing that, to vote Green over staying home.

[defendandprotect]

37. True ... and I support third parties and IRV ... but this message will be in a bottle....

and by the time anyone picks it up and is forced to deal with it

Repugs will be calling the shots again --

Granted, Dems seem to have purposefully tried to dump gays and lesbians from the party --

among others --

A questionable diss-ing of the base for what reason hard to fathom ....

What we do know is that we need to continue the push to the LEFT --

We need to break thru the right wing block and move everything to the LEFT --

Voting AGAINST Repugs will do that --

and we can double back then and deal with corporate-rw Democras!!

[Democat]

42. The message it sent in 2000 was "it's ok to start the Iraq War".

If that's the kind of message you want to send, then don't complain when bad things happen.

[No Elephants]

45. No, voting Green in 2000 did not send that message Please see Reply 44.. Dummya

could have cared less what he thought voters wanted.

[Raster]

3. dupe: should be combined with longer, earlier thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9378962

[DevonRex]

15. I just kicked and recced both of them. What the heck? It's a good subject. nt

[Liberal Veteran]

4. Not this gay voter.

I must not be one of the cool gays, cause they never ask my opinion on things gay and political.

[DevonRex]

16. It's an interesting topic. I'm glad you think this way.

But I'm glad the other side's opinion is being exposed. And I'm glad the politicians are seeing the danger of not paying attention to the issues of the gay community.

[defendandprotect]

38. Presume that all of who were thrown "under the bus" ... teachers, gays, unions, seniors.....

will all be doing the "hold your nose" and vote to get rid of as many Repugs as

possible -- ???

We can always double back later and deal with corporate-Democrats -- !!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluestateguy]

7. If you live in Arkansas I could understand

Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor joined the filibuster, but it makes no sense to punish say Barbara Boxer in California by sitting at home because of Blanche Lincoln's obstructionism.

[Iliyah]

8. I swear

the media is absolutely spouting everything they can to discourage the Dem voters. Dickie Armey turd claiming that since the early voting seems to be in favor of the Dems of course he spouts fraud.

Yes I understand that people are angry, especially the gays, but jeeus, let the GOP Tea Bats in and they can completely forget their civil rights.

[Liberal Veteran]

10. I am sure there are a few people taking a knife out to cut their noses off to spite their face...

....but I'd like to think the majority of us won't fall prey to what is essentially argumentum ad odium (an appeal to spite).

[gratuitous]

24. I think you're correct

But if they're getting down to angry gays being the determining factor in the election, we're talking about a smaller and smaller portion of the voting public. There's something here that's beginning to sound like desperation.

[mitchtv]

28. no, but I have a state senator candidate

that I WILL NOT VOTE FOR. so I wrote in his primary opponent. I voted straight Dem until I got to him. I love Boxer, Brown , Newsome et al. I reserve my right to decide

[No Elephants]

46. No sense at all. I love my rep (Capuano). I'll be holding my nose other spots on the ballot to

keep a Rethug out of office, though. But the Rethugs running are so bad, I'll hold my nose gladly, if that makes any sense. IOW, middlin' bad is far preferable to pure evil.

[BlueIdaho]

11. Yet another republican voter suppression effort.

First Latinos, now Gays...

[Liberal Veteran]

12. When they try it at my house, I just say:

Oh rubbish. You have no power here. Be gone before somebody drops a house on you.

I already voted a week ago.

[BlueIdaho]

23. Me too!

I take their literature and then tell them its too late. Then I walk over to the recycle bin and drop their shit in it.

[Number23]

32. No doubt. I'm just wondering how many people will fall for it.

This part of the article was interesting:

"Baim said Democrats and Obama still enjoy widespread support in some parts of the gay community, particularly among African-Americans and Latinos, and she believes the majority still will vote."

So we get all the way down to the end of the article to learn that a) the rift in the gay community appears to be along the same racial lines as in the general population and b) folks fully expect for gays of every hue to come out and vote anyway which is in direct conflict with the "gays may not vote" theme of the article.

[DevonRex]

13. K&R. nt

[mzteris]

17. yeah cause getting republicans into power is such smart move!

you go girl!

Send that message! Of course you're shooting yourself in the foot. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. Pissing in the wind. screwing the pooch.

Yeah. Makes PERFECT SENSE.

[Liberal Veteran]

18. Someone should tell her to piss up a rope

[jaxx]

19. Another AP article letting people know it's ok not to vote.

Thank goodness the LGBT's are smarter than that. Jeez you'd think they'd go after the old white men and tell them to stay home. HaHa

[LostInAnomie]

20. No they won't.

The AP must think we're stupid.

[FreakinDJ]

21. i"m sure they"ll do fine with the GOP

[ZombieHorde]

22. If gay people can determine elections, parties which want to win should champion

the major gay causes of the day, while shunning anti-gay sentiments.

[foxfeet]

25. Bingo. nt

[Politicalboi]

26. Yes because Repukes

Will fight for gay rights. :sarcasm:

[matt819]

27. What a load of crap

Gays are pissed.

Dems are pissed.

Progessives are pissed.

Unemployed people are pissed.

Students are pissed.

Latinos are pissed.

Blacks are pissed.

Etc., etc.

Sure, everyone is pissed. Things haven't gone exactly as planned. The war in Iraq is over, but troops are still there. The Afghan war is now the new quagmire. We've had health insurance reform, but we still don't have single payer. The administration can't seem to figure out if they're coming or going when it comes to gays serving openly in the military. And the list goes on and on and on.

But, really, does anyone here believe that a true Democrat, liberal, progressive, etc. is going to vote for a republican? Anyone? Can I see a show of hands?

Look, I don't know what's going to happen on Nov 2, and I don't know what's going to happen in 2012. Maybe the right will prevail by getting new voters or disgruntled, scared old white people out to the polls. But to suggest that there's going to be a wholesale shift by Dems to the right, especially to a tea party extremist right, is simply not going to happen.

[letterwriter]

29. Not gay but

if I were gay I would be really pissed off.

[FreeState]

40. We are

and rightfully so. I've already voted and every single person I voted for is 100% pro equality (from anti-bullying to marriage) and all we Democrats.

What pisses us gays off even more is being used as an excuse for losing elections - something that unfortunately happened here in 2004 and I see some people are gearing up to do it all over.

[Historic NY]

30. Col. Sanders is out looking for the chicken vote.

[JNelson6563]

31. In my neck of the woods the gays I know are voting Dem.

But many of them are in the trenches and have been for years, making a difference.

When I was chair of my Cong. Dist. one of our 14 counties (the most populous one by far) had a few real shitheads in leadership. They didn't want to really do anything, as in work. Some newcomers did and were willing to do all the work. The entrenched leadership still said "no". I did all I could to help and we got them a charter to start a Dem club. Damn, the ink on the charter wasn't even dry and they had a year 'round office. They became the real Dem powerhouse of the region, even fielding some excellent candidates. The whole effort was lead by a couple who happened to be lesbians. I put one of them on the slate of which I was candidate for Chair. We won (thanks in large part to Labor). As sec. to the Dist. the gal I got on the slate had access to all the data base info from the State party. This helped them build membership for the Club they started. I tell you what, I was never so proud of being part of an effort as that which these two ladies and their friends put together. They are still going strong and showing real leadership, reshaping what "Democrat" means in their region.



Julie

[Dawgs]

35. Just another AP effort to get people to NOT vote for the Democrats.

Fuck you AP.

[defendandprotect]

36. Our enemy is the RIGHT WING.....keep the push going to the LEFT ....then we can deal

with Democrats --

let's knock out as many Repugs as possible!!

[Democat]

41. Don't complain about "bullying" if you help bullies get elected.

This is pathetic.

[No Elephants]

48. I've not had to put up, on a daily basis, with things that make gay people kill themselves, so I

won't be climbing any high horse on this issue. I hope they vote Dem and, above all, don't stay home, but I have nothing but apologies and love to give members of the GLBT community. I am so ashamed and sorry for how they are treated.