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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:53 PM
Original message
From Sibel Edmonds: The King of Madrasas Now Operates Over 100 Charter Schools in the US?
This topic has been covered here before, but it still is alarming. Remember that charter schools get public taxpayer money, yet there is little accountability.

Did You Know: The King of Madrasas Now Operates Over 100 Charter Schools in the US?

The Controversial Muslim preacher has now extended his tentacles into schools in the United States, where he controls and operates more than 100 charter schools within a calculatively set up maze of dubious NGOs. Fethullah Gulen, whose organizations’ net worth is estimated to be somewhere between $22 billion and $50 billion, owns and operates over three hundred Madrasas around the world, including Pakistan, Central Asia, and the Caucasus. While Gulen’s suspicious and secretive Madrasas have been shut down and or restrained in countries such as Russia, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan, based on these governments’ justified suspicions that his schools had more than just education on their agendas, his rapidly and secretively expanding charter school empire here in the US has gone quite unnoticed and unacknowledged.

In less than a decade Gulen’s Islamic network in the US has established over 100 publicly funded charter schools in 25 states. What makes this eyebrow raising phenomenon a very disturbing case is the fact that despite official documents and publicly available data Fethullah Gulen is going out of his way to deny his connections to these schools. The question is why? Here are a few excerpts from a USA Today article in August 2010:

The schools educate as many as 35,000 students — taken together they’d make up the largest charter school network in the USA — and have imported thousands of Turkish educators over the past decade.But the success of the schools at times has been clouded by nagging questions about what ties the schools may have to a reclusive Muslim leader in his late 60s living in exile in rural Pennsylvania.

Top administrators say they have no official ties to Gülen. And Gülen himself denies any connection to the schools. Still, documents available at various foundation websites and in federal forms required of non-profit groups show that virtually all of the schools have opened or operate with the aid of Gülen-inspired “dialogue” groups, local non-profits that promote Turkish culture. In one case, the Ohio-based Horizon Science Academy of Springfield in 2005 signed a five-year building lease with the parent organization of Chicago’s Niagara Foundation, which promotes Gülen’s philosophy of “peace, mutual respect, the culture of coexistence.” Gülen is the foundation’s honorary president. In many cases, charter school board members also serve as dialogue group leaders.


More from the USA Today article:

They have generic, forward-sounding names like Horizon Science Academy, Pioneer Charter School of Science and Beehive Science & Technology Academy. Quietly established over the past decade by a loosely affiliated group of Turkish-American educators, these 100 or so publicly funded charter schools in 25 states are often among the top-performing public schools in their towns.

The schools educate as many as 35,000 students — taken together they'd make up the largest charter school network in the USA — and have imported thousands of Turkish educators over the past decade.

..."The University of Oregon's Hendrick, whose writings explore the Gülen Movement, calls him "Turkey's most famous religious personality." His movement is considered the nation's "third force" alongside the military and Turkey's ruling Adalet ve Kalkýnma Partisi, or AKP Party.

In 1999, after traveling to the USA for medical treatment, Gülen was charged in Turkey with trying to create an Islamic state. Since then he has remained in Pennsylvania. After the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service in 2007 denied his bid for a visa as an "alien of extraordinary ability in education," Gülen sued, saying his followers "had established more than 600 educational institutions" worldwide. He eventually prevailed, earning a green card in 2008. But Turkish educators in the USA continue to disavow their ties.

"Gülen is both the reason behind his schools, and he has nothing whatsoever to do with them," Hendrick says.


The Perimeter Primate Blog has covered these schools extensively there.

Perimeter Primate

PLEASE READ THIS GULEN MOVEMENT & GULEN CHARTER SCHOOL UPDATE!
Under the radar of the American public, the Gulen Movement, an Islamic-based movement out of Turkey, has been quietly advancing its presence and influence in the U.S. via the establishment of charter schools, "cultural centers", and "interfaith dialogue" centers. Politicians, reporters, academics, community leaders, and charter school families have been strategically targeted and wooed by Gulenists who are building up their body of unsuspecting American sympathizers. Do the sympathizers who defend the GM's activities have an understanding of the controversies which surround this secretive movement and its worldwide political ambitions? Are they aware of the GM's current role in eroding the secularness of the Turkish state?


That blog also has a list of all the Gulen Schools in the US.

List of Gulen Charter schools in US

There are all kinds of religious schools getting public money now through charters.

I am not sure how they are getting away with it unless those in charge choose to turn away and not confront the issue.


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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. the comments on the boiling frog site are very interesting....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, they are.
Most interesting.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. K & R n/t
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. If they are teaching religion in the publicly chartered school,
I wish that someone would challenge them. Whether an Islamic school possibly owned by the owner of what are alleged to be madrasas would make an interesting Supreme Court case. I wonder whether the ACLU would be interested in looking into this. We should not be funding religious education of any denomination with government money.

Separation of church and state is more important now than it ever was, especially when it comes to education.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. They do not appear to be

It seems that a wealthy lawful resident of the United States is indirectly providing funding for charter schools. Because he is Turkish and preaches that Muslims should get along with Christians and Jews, we are apparently supposed to be alarmed.

Sibel Edmonds has a remarkable ability to find an evil Turk hiding behind every tree.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. You've been to one of these charter schools?
Please, enlighten us more on exactly what this man "preaches" to our children. Thanks!
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I doubt the guy preaches anything to children
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 08:10 AM by jberryhill
Are we really going to get into the religious affiliations of people who fund educational institutions? Really?

I gather the fact that the Walton Family Foundation (the Wal-Mart family) also provides grants to charter schools means that we are turning out brainwashed supporters of cheap Chinese imports.

The article posits nothing about what these schools are teaching, but we are to assume they must be up to no good because a lawful resident of the United States from Turkey runs charitable foundations. This is okay for Christians, Jews, and anyone else, but obviously since this guy has a religious motivation to fund education - like a lot of other philanthropists - there's got to be a stinker here.

Other than innuendo, there is no specific indication that anything nefarious is going on, and I like the way you turn it around into a "guilty until proven innocent" type of question.

There is no question that a lot of trans-Caucasus groups - Armenians, Turks, Persians, etc. - have a lot of axes to grind with one another. In that ongoing multi-lateral grudge-bearing contest, Ms. Edmonds seems to have a definite position.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Other than "bundling" and campaign contributions and influence.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Anything specific?

Or is it that a lawful US resident from Turkey is associated with charitable foundations that fund charter schools, is something that I should panic over?

Am I still supposed to be enraged about Edmonds' lesbian accusations against Jan Schakowsky, complete with wrong chronological information?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. We can pretend if you want that Turkish influence peddling
and American politicians is not high if you like. But there are plenty of specifics.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. The Turkish government doesn't seem to like this guy, though

So, let's be clear.

Rich guy, worth billions, living in the US, has a number of non-profit foundations which, among other things, fund charter schools.

He is Turkish, and a Sufi Muslim, so this makes his activities part of "Turkish influence peddling", even though the reason he lives in the US is because he doesn't get along well with the government of Turkey.

-----
In June 1999, after Gulen had left Turkey for the United States video tapes were sent to TV stations in Turkey with recordings of Gulen saying, "the existing system is still in power. Our friends who have positions in legislative and administrative bodies should learn its details and be vigilant all the time so that they can transform it and be more fruitful on behalf of Islam in order to carry out a nationwide restoration. However, they should wait until the conditions become more favorable. In other words, they should not come out too early."<17> Gülen complained that the remarks were taken out of context, <18> and questions were raised about the authenticity of the tape, which he accused of having been "manipulated." Gülen was tried in absentia in 2000, and acquitted in 2006. <19> The Supreme Court of Appeals later rejected an appeal by the Chief Prosecutor's Office.
------

So, let me get this straight, the Turkish government tried and failed to hang a rap around his neck on charges of criticizing the Turkish government, but because part of his philanthropy arises from promoting knowledge and understanding among Muslims, Christians and Jews, then he is running "madrassas" in the United States as part of some Turkish government influence peddling scheme.

Do I have that right?

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. What about Gulen AKP connections in 2007?
ATC? Niagara Foundation? Politicians?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Do you want to state facts in connection with these schools?

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Certainly. I am against charter schools as a substitute for public
education. He can set up schools in every district in the US as far as I'm concerned as long as they are private schools. Privateers and public schools do not mix. Nor do their money, politicians, and the public good.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
101. No, it appears that you don't. He wanted a restoration of the Theocracy that been replaced.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. "Perhaps you should invest some effort into researching these institutions before you comment"

Perhaps if you want to explain what it is that these schools or this person is doing, which is so awful, then I'd be fascinated to hear it.

According to the OP, there is this horrible guy with a lot of money whose foundations have some connections to these schools.

I guess it is somehow assumed that the OP is supposed to inspire me to research something or other, but I would ordinarily have thought that if one is trying to make some kind of point, one would spell out exactly what point one is trying to make.

If you believe an Oklahoma statute has been violated, then it seems your first stop might be the Oklahoma AG's office.

Dr. Erturk appears to be a professor at OSU with graduate and post-doctoral qualifications in economics. Your point is that his activities with a an Interfaith Dialog group of some kind disqualifies him from being an educator, or what?

Perhaps I'm just dense. What is going on with these schools that I should be concerned about?


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kaelot Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
69. You aren't dense, just lacking facts and knowledge about Gulen and Turkic Charter Schools :)
Interesting :) seems something was deleted...wish I could read it! What I get from your post is that it had something to do with activities with an Interfaith Dialog Group and Turkish Charter Schools. Nothing new. This happens in several states. Actually, this doesn't disqualify anyone from being an educator. However, public charter schools funded with tax dollars have to be nonsectarian in all operations. Legally a charter school cannot be affiliated with a nonpublic sectarian school or religious institution. Therefore, the affiliation of these charter schools with organizations like Niagara Foundation, Institute of Interfaith Dialogue, Gulen Institute, etc. is unlawful.


;) And don't you worry the schools in Oklahoma are being exposed....like those in so many other states. Here is a very informative site.

A lack of information doesn't make one dense...Here is a very informative, very succinct site:

http://gulencharterschools.weebly.com/index.html
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #69
78. Okay I read that

They sound like shitty schools. That's not very remarkable.

What is the religious instruction component?
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. How interesting.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. Glad you are posting this.
She'll be glad to know.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. k & r
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
14. Edmonds is a fraud
I agree with the other poster on this thread that is highly doubtful about her claims.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Is the USA Today story a fraud also?
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 09:27 AM by mmonk
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yes, this piece is a smear job through and through
Since when is a "charter" school a madrasa?

One need only look at the weasel words throughout the OP to suspect that this is a hit job. Tentacles? Unsuspecting Americans?

I also agree with the other poster on this thread that Edmonds sees Turkish spies behind every bush and tree.

Lastly, there appears to be zero evidence presented that the Gulen Movement is nefarious in any way.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Simple. A madrasa or madrasah is
"a place where learning and studying are done". It means the same as school does in the English language, whether that is private, public or parochial school, as well as for any primary or secondary school whether Muslim, non-Muslim, or secular.


There is plenty out there on the Gulen Movement. Depends on where you look.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. I think you touch on a great example of why this appears to be a smear piece
and an attempt at fear mongering. It is not an accident that Edmonds chose the word "madrasah/madrasa/madrassa" to headline a piece about "schools" in America. That word along with words like "tentacles" and others in the piece were chosen specifically to scare the reader.

There is plenty out there on the Gulen Movement to be sure and the vast majority of what I found was praiseworthy.

Edmonds appears to be desperately trying to translate her fraudulent claims against the FBI into a full-time gig. Anyone wishing to learn more about Edmonds should read her deposition at BradBlog. They show quite clearly, at least to me, that she is a liar and to date she has produced ZERO evidence that many of her most outrageous claims are evn remotely true.

Remember Jan Schakowsky?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. The Schakowsky attack was really slimy

Armenian and Turkish partisans have been lobbying in the US over their feud for a while, and are likely to continue to do so, for reasons known only to them.

We are apparently to accept without question the allegations of an Azerbaijani in that longstanding set of Caucasian grudge matches.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Sorry but the connections between the AKP, The Niagara Foundation,
and American politics is there.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Other than Glenn Beck's Chalkboard

Would you like to address what is going on in these schools which you find objectionable?

And I don't mean some generalized gripe about charter schools. What makes these ones particularly awful other than the religious beliefs of a lawful resident of the US who is indirectly funding them?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. The Gulen schools are called madrasas in the other countries
they are in. Are they fear mongering there?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. And Obama's middle name is Hussein

And the Pashtun word for "student" is "taliban".

You aren't fooling anyone.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. Why don't you tell me what I'm doing?
Why don't you tell me what I'm trying to fool people about? You seem to be an expert on me. Tell me and the people on this board what I am and what I'm trying to do.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Madrasa is the arabic word for any type of educational institution

...so of course there are plenty of places where any school is called a madrasa.

However, DU, and the OP in particular, is located in the United States where people normally speak English, so we would typically use the word "school" instead of "madrasa" when we want to refer to the school.

In the US, the word "madrasa" has picked up political baggage in which it tends to be associated with certain hardcore institutions run by Muslim extremists.

It's like saying "I was a member of the taliban for 12 years" upon graduating from Anytown, USA High School, since "taliban" is Pashtun for "student".

However, if you said "I was a member of the taliban for 12 years", you would likely provoke a reaction not normally associated with the mundane statement of how long it took to get your high school diploma.

So, yes, of course, the schools are called "madrassas" in other countries, because calling them "fire departments", "brothels", or "pizza parlors" would be a remarkable stupid thing to call a "school" anywhere that Arabic is spoken.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. By other countries, I was speaking of countries, like the US,
where the word isn't commonly used. I already had stated in the thread all the word meant was school.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. He has 25 Billion dollars and has schools all over the world.
He is positioned well in the Charter School sweepstakes in the US. What will be the political price? And are we to ignore the political connections?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. What is the Walton family getting as a "political price"?

I guess the answer to "what are these schools doing or teaching about which I should be concerned" is "not much".
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. You really don't care that taxes are going to religious schools?
That is your right. But it is something I feel strongly about.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. I care deeply - I haven't seen one shred of evidence these are "religious schools"
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 06:22 PM by jberryhill
Can you remind me where the religious curriculum of these schools was pointed out?

Thanks.

Oklahoma - being such a hotbed of folks who just love anything having to do with Islam - would have figured this out by now, I believe.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. You are barking up the wrong tree.
Where did the money come from?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #64
82. and where does it go?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. There are pages linked in my posts.
Here is one that is interesting.

http://www.charterschoolwatchdog.com/the-teachers-are-catching-on.html

I can tell that you have killed the message with the messenger. I consider that your problem not mine.

I could post proof positive, and you would not agree.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. You seem not to understand something

Look, you said these were "religious schools".

I read the page you posted, and it was about how some positions were preferentially filled by hires that were Turks. That's close to a valid criticism. But saying that a lot of teachers are Turks is not proof of the proposition that these are "religious schools".

I'm not trying to kill a message or a messenger, I'm simply trying to figure out WTF you are trying to say, without having to commit a career to reading a bunch of web pages which seem to take it as a given that anything at all associated with anything Turkish is evil. If you want to focus your point, you are going to have to understand that Americans are not steeped in whatever ethnic feud makes those with whom you associate pull out scimitars and spit on the floor if anything Turkish is mentioned in a conversation.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. You read way too much into what I posted.
I have no gripe with Turkey or any other country having private schools here. I just don't want taxpayer money funding them.

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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. You said "religious schools"

Is it too much to ask that you back up the characterization of "religious schools" by explaining the religious instruction provided in them?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Yes, it is too much to ask when you can read the links for yourself.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #67
86. !! scimitars!
:spray:
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #67
102. I had the sad experience of attending PUBLIC schools in the South.
The teachers expressed in many ways their Christian fundamentalism and distain for anyone other than Southern Baptists. Anyone who was not in agreement was ostracised. A school doesn't have to have a religious cirriculum to be overtly preaching a particular religious viewpoint. A religous school that is tranformed into a supposedly secular school can still have a tremendous influence on its students, not to mention the more important influence that their peers can enforce. A prime example is the situation that prevailed in Utah. Teachers would announce that the local Morman church was offering some after school event. When school let out the kids flocked to the local Mormon church to attend. It was a subtle way of proselytizing.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #60
85. is it a "religious school" because a muslin is tangentially related to it?
you've jumped the shark.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Nothing geo-political.
And that's the point.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #59
83. lol. you can't figure it out?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. They are really death camps, not charter schools?

This thread just gets weirder and weirder.

It's a big world, and you may know something that other people don't know. Fortunately, there are things like internet forums where people can post and share information.

"Gulen .... Modern Day Hitler" doesn't really tell me much about Fethulla Gulen and why I need to be afraid of him.

I don't keep desktop index of every jackass on the planet, so perhaps you might summarize in a few words what the big deal is with this guy.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. The article did not call the charter school a madrasa.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Isn't it annoying when immigrants bring their crap to the US?

I have no doubts about the Armenian genocide, and the fact that the Turks have never owned up to it.

What boggles my mind is why it is so important to these folks to duke it out in the court of US opinion and politics.

Whether there is some factual nugget of something bad going on is obscured by the yellow style of the OP.

I guess we are supposed to come away with the idea that while philanthropists of all stripes run foundations which fund things, there is something suspect about a Turkish billionaire doing the same sorts of things that all billionaires do. The Gates Foundation, presumably, is brainwashing the objects of its funding to use Microsoft products or some such.

I'd like to see the story of little Jimmy coming home from school saying, "Mommy, today we learned to be terrorists."

What is going on in these schools that is so awful? Nothing one can surmise from the story.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. "Discovery School Of Tulsa is arranging Field Trips to Science Museum of Oklahoma, Omniplex"
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 05:57 PM by jberryhill
Is there, like, a human sacrifice that goes on at the Turkish festival in Houston?

Hell, my elementary school class went to a Japanese Cherry Blossom Festival event.

I guess that's why I keep feeling like bombing Pearl Harbor everytime December 7 rolls around.
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kaelot Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
57. Zero evidence....NO, the evidence exists....
Sibel Edmonds and court documents concerning Gulen’s application for permanent residency in the US, got underway in 1999 under the Clinton Administration:

Hundreds of Muslim Uyghurs from Xinjiang were transported to Afghanistan – -thanks to the CIA – - for training in Afghanistan under Osama bin Laden and the mujahadeen.

Following their training, the Uyghurs returned to Xinjiang to form The East Turkistan Islamic Movement, an organization affiliated with al Qaeda that has launched terror attacks throughout the Xinjiang province.
Like the Gulen Movement, the East Turkistan Islamic Movement was funded by money from the CIA’s control of the poppy fields.
Sibel Edmonds testified that he US needed “to keep its fingerprints off these operations” in order to avoid a popular revolt in Central Asia and severe repercussions from China and Russia.”
Court recorders and testimony from former state department officials support the following conclusions:
1. The CIA has allowed the flow of heroin from Afghanistan into Europe and the United States in order to fund the Gulen movement.
2. The CIA has worked to establish a pan-Islamic state throughout Central Asia, including the Xinjiang province of China, in order to gain access for US firms to the substantial oil and natural reserves of this geographic area.
3. The CIA has worked with Osama bin Laden in order to create the East Turkistan Islamic Movement, a new Islamic terrorist organization.
Unfortunately, the above is merely the tip of the iceberg.

Perhaps if FBI-DOJ Gulen Criminal Files were made available to the public you would not feel that there is zero evidence presented that the Gulen Movement is nefarious in any way..

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Thanks kaelot.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. So these charter schools in Oklahoma

Are teaching kids to make heroin, or teaching them how to blow up buildings?

Which is it?
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. Good question!
Let's go ask Sibel Edmonds!

I am sure that her VERY brief stint as a contract interpreter at the FBI is all that is needed for some here to anoint her as an unquestionable authority on geopolitics and espionage. I know late night 7/11 clerks that have more credibility than Edmonds.

Cheers!
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. A lot of late night 7/11 clerks are Turks!

You've blown your cover.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #57
88. hookay sir trollalot...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. By whose definition?
Who considers her a fraud?

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. People here ever since the Schakowsky incidence.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. I do
I have read her open letters, articles and transcripts of interviews. I have read her depositions at Bradblog. It is quite clear to me that she is simply not believable. What is true is that she has seemingly made quite a nice little career for herself after only a six week stint at the FBI as a contract employee. She has hallmarked her newfound fame by accusing dozens of people of treason. These include members of Congress, their staff, the Mayor of Chicago and IL state legislators and now Mr. Gulen and his group are in her crosshairs. Hey, it keeps those checks rolling in I'm sure, but it does not mean that she is any way credible about much of anything.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
80. I guess she was totally wrong about Dennis Hastert wasn't she.
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 11:17 PM by cascadiance
He certainly isn't working with Turkish interests now is he Vinnie!
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. He is a lobbyist that is certain
That does not by any stretch make Edmonds wild claims true. If you read any of her depositions in regard to her claims, you will see quite clearly that she is less than honest.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #87
93. I think you need to explain WHERE you think she is lying. I don't see it!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
19. 8 Catholic schools, an evangelical school in FL, 4 NY schools, 1 in PA
that we know of are charters getting public money, one at least giving that money to their church affiliate for rent.

I don't approve of those either, I don't think religious charters should be funded with public money.

4 NY charter schools being started by religious groups.

PA charter gives 4 million of tax money to church for rent

8 Catholic schools convert to charter to survive financially

Why are we doing this, mixing public and religious money?

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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
23. The article reads like freeper "muslim" hysteria.
"In one case, the Ohio-based Horizon Science Academy of Springfield in 2005 signed a five-year building lease with the parent organization of Chicago’s Niagara Foundation, which promotes Gülen’s philosophy of “peace, mutual respect, the culture of coexistence.”

Gosh, that's horrible.:eyes:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. They are getting taxpayer money. That is my gripe.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. The schools discussed in the OP are not "religious schools"

The point seems to be that if a billionaire of a particular religious persuasion funds foundations which provide money to charter schools with an emphasis on science, then there is something bad going on.

And the OP does this with a healthy helping of insinuative adjectives and question marks, without stating what, if anything, is going on in these schools to be excited about.

If you object to public funds for religious schools, you have a legitimate beef.

The OP is about private funds for non-religious schools.

Can you bridge that gap with some facts?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. You need to read more about the schools.
The USA article is a start.

Many other sources at this link.

http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.com/p/gulen-school-characteristics.html

And this site goes into detail

http://turkishinvitations.weebly.com/index.html

And more here

http://www.charterschoolwatchdog.com/now-this-school-had-issues.html

Then make your own decision about whether you think taxpayer money is better going there or to schools run and regulated by the local school district.

There is way too much secrecy about these schools. There should not be.



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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Being against charter schools is one thing,using freeper
fear tactics to promote it is another.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I'm aware of the problems of charter schools

The OP is not about public money funding charter schools. The OP suggests that a wealthy lawfully resident person in the US is up to something hinky because his foundations fund some. Would you care to address the question of why I'm supposed to be upset about this person and his foundations?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Because they are getting our tax money that should go to public schools
that are regulated and run by local school districts.

I just did a web and blog search on these schools, and there is just so much more.

It is your right to think they are ok, and it is my right to question their getting taxpayer money.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. You're skirting the real issue some of us have with this.
This isn't an article about religion and charter schools,it's an article about a man of one particlar religion having charter schools.It also uses common scare tactics usually used by the right wing, dog whistles and all.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
66. Yep...
I think for some, the end justifies the means... which is a tactic that has always left me curious as all hell.

I hope you get an answer... I won't hold my breath.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. New personal rule...
I don't respond to insults... just so you know why you are on ignore.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Um... What insult?

My impression was that you understand what these folks are yammering about, and I thought maybe you knew, because I can't make sense of it.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. ahhh... gotcha... pardon my terse response!
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 07:29 PM by JuniperLea
I've been virtually beat up so much around here lately, and by many in this group in particular.

I think many are spinning in the breeze here trying to demonize with barrel bottom scrapings. This piece smacks of Muslim bashing to the degree that I feel that's the real reason for writing it in the first place. If you read it with that thought in mind, I know you'll get it.

It pains me to see something like this coming from Edmunds... I hope she hasn't jumped the shark.

There are plenty of Christian and Catholic schools in my neighborhood... I feel that they risk losing accreditation if this sort of thing gets out of hand.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Funny that the article only seeks to whip up hysteria about
"madrasas" built by scary muslim people.
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Exactly!! nt
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
32. No fucking charter schools! They are Trojan horses for anyone willing to run one. nt
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
38. Wow. Sibel Edmonds is a fraud and it's all fine as long as they don't require burkas as
the school's uniform.

Just wow...
:wow::crazy:

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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. The only thing Edmonds has done with great skill is
to take a small complaint about co-workers during her six week stint at the FBI and turn it into a career hallmarked by launching vicious attacks based on nothing but her faulty memory. So, yeah I agree. WOW!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
81. yeah, burkas: way beyond the pale. us tax dollars supporting private religions,
Edited on Mon Oct-25-10 11:21 PM by Hannah Bell
covert ops, h1b visa operations, & private corps under the guise of "education" -- no problemo.

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
79. K & R nt
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
84. The Recs on this thread are a monument to willfull ignorance
Sibel Edmonds is a liar and she has hoodwinked many DU'ers.

Cheers!
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. the bev harris of today.
;)
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #84
92. And for you to call her a liar, either you have to be an FBI insider or...
... some might question your credibility yourself if you make claims about information that are national secrets and therefore can't make a substantive claim either way on whether what she says is true or not true.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. One need not be an FBI insider to find gargantuan flaws in Edmond's stories
Please understand that these Sibel Edmonds is a fearless speaker of truth threads come along now and again and it gets just a bit tiring to confront and destroy much of the myth surrounding Edmonds over and over again. In short, Edmonds has taken a minor complaint against the FBI which had employed her for a few months as an interpreter and turned it into a career as a First Amendment warrior and hurler of accusations. If you really want to understand just how ridiculous Edmonds claims have been in the past, take a moment and read her depositions posted at BradBlog. Ms. Edmonds initial fame arose from her claim that after working at the FBI as a CONTRACT interpreter for what amounted to only a few weeks in actuality she was able uncover a worldwide conspiracy of treason that reached the halls of Congress and the White House. Think about that for a moment! Edmonds, with no previous training as a spy or an investigator, was able to uncover and understand this huge conspiracy involving dozens of people.



Back to the OP, this piece by Edmonds screams "smear job" from the opening sentence and it is designed to villify and fear-monger using words like "tentacles" etc.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. I would assert that YOU have absolutely no idea of what her job was!
And that YOU are interpreting and opinionating yourself on how much she could do in the amount of time Sibel was working there. She was working with a big backlog of translations there, and if she is fluent in other languages I would have expected her to cover a lot of documents from different time periods, especially if they related to each other and she was supposed to provide the field with accurate information of what is being said on the materials that she was translating.

Now there is plenty of other information out in the world that one can compare notes with on what one has researched, and many of us can get a lot of this stuff by looking through just public places to get info. I'm sure she does the same. That doesn't dismiss that she has access to some secret information that is damning that no one inside these agencies perhaps still wants to acknowledge exists or has any merit. If she was truly a liar and manufacturing information from nothing, then they would have arrested and her and tried her a long time ago and put and end to it then. The pattern of avoidance by official government figures speaks loudly on why many of us don't feel we can trust them and why we look to people like Sibel who have the courage to risk consequences to speak out on what she claims she knows. She knows that we can't accept what she says now as "truth", but that we need investigations to get to that truth. And that's all I'm asking too.

I have read her depositions and many of her other writings too. You are NOT being any specific with anything that can conclusively point to her lying. You are just interpreting and voicing your own opinionated statements that she's lying and speaking in generalities as such.

Now with Jan Schakowsky, I don't know what went on behind the scenes, and evidently it would seem that there are different trails of information stored some place that either contradict what Sibel is saying or what she is saying. Is one of them lying? Maybe. Perhaps someone else put information in the official logs incorrectly? Maybe. We won't know without an investigation. And people like you don't want to hear the truth but just slander people without any thing hard to prove your allegations.

Personally I like Ms. Schakowsky in many ways and what she does in congress. She might be totally innocent. On the other hand, she might have gotten sucked into something that she's trying to avoid dealing with publicly too, and as a politician, many noble politicians are very careful of what they make public about their private lives. However, if there are efforts in congress to try and use personal information to twist arms, etc. there, no matter now noble the targets of such gamesmanship are, Americans need to know what is going on in these cases, perhaps to keep someone like Schakowsky and other politicians more clear of such pressure tactics down the road, and allow citizens to regain a bit more faith in their government in policing such activity. Currently our citizens' faith in the government is at an all time low for many reasons, those which Sibel brings up are just a small fraction of.

Now if Ms. Schakowsky is covering something up and it isn't wrongdoing, but just personal information she doesn't want public, and it also is not something where she actually succumbed to blackmail, I think she would be better served by admitting what went on if it did happen, and to work with others to trying and clamp down on those doing it so that they can no longer do that to Ms. Schakowsky or others. I think ultimately, many like me would have even more respect and loyalty to her, even if some of her personal life is exposed that she doesn't want exposed, if she were to use that opportunity to go after those that are really trying to wreak havoc on our government and demonstrate a good dose of courage in doing so.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
90. Gulen's mystifying agenda begs a lot of scrutiny from my point of view... Shadow of the Holy Book...
Edited on Tue Oct-26-10 12:05 AM by cascadiance
is a film that many on this thread should see to see some very questionable efforts from those that share ties to the Gulen movement too where I think what's out in the open is a bit more disturbing.

Though I have problems with the nationalists in Turkey too, as well as potentially the issues around Ergenekon that seem sinister at times, I also wonder about the leading AKP government and the ties where it unites some people like Gulen that I think people need to look at more closely and who they are tied to within AKP influence like Erdogan, and big Turkish businessmen like Ahmet Calik.

Finnish documentarian Arto Halonen, who I met at a film festival where this film was aired a couple of years ago, has a very poignant look at the country of Turkmenistan, and how through two different dictators it tried to spread its own religious creed spin of Islam in a very cultish way through its heavy financial influences eelsewhere called the Ruhnama...



This article talks about the linkage of what is going on in Turkmenistan with the Gulen movement...

http://turkishinvitations.weebly.com/gulen-and-saparmurat-niyazov.html

and this article discusses the film "Shadow of the Holy Book", where it is shown that corporate influence that the dictator of Turkmenistan has uses companies like Siemens, John Deere, Caterpillar, etc. to push its "holy Book" in many countries including the U.S.

http://newsreel.org/video/SHADOW-OF-THE-HOLY-BOOK

You can get a copy on Amazon if you can't find this on Netflix, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Holy-Documentary-Turkmeni-dissidents/dp/B001KZ0DM4/

Ahmet Calik, who recently was allowed to take over a good portion of the Turkish Television network system via his AKP connections, as a Turkish national was still an official significant part of the leadership in the government of Turkmenistan of all places, which shows you the ties that are interwoven through these different nets. I think we really need to understand this better, and I think looking at a film like "Shadow of the Holy Book", with all of the corporate influence that these groups have, it is not hard to tell why we might not be hearing everything we should be.

Sibel is right on in how we should be examining these more closely. Its not clear in each instance of where a Turkish school is going up in different parts of the country under Gulen's influence, on how well-motivated the local leaders are for just having a good cultural educational experience for Turks here, and who might be carrying out some agenda that we should be more concerned about. Here in Portland I've met both Turks that are concerned about some of the religious influences that these groups have here, as well as many in those groups that seem like decent people, though I've noticed a lot of ties with Homeland Security and the FBI with some of their public events here. I guess depending on what parts of these organizations are working with them, that could be a good thing or a bad thing too.

I guess I don't know enough about many of these groups to judge them harshly or dismiss them as harmless. But I do think we should all make an effort to understand them more so we can make this judgement.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
91. Gives you a pain in your chest ... especially when Obama/Duncan are pushing Charter schools ....
and screwing the teachers and their unions and public education!!

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RRF1966 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
94. Gulen charter schools
It's been very difficult to explain to the general public why these schools are a concern. The main reason is that the instant the word "Muslim" is mentioned, there are knee jerk responses. Right-wing people immediately assume the problem must be terrorism and overt religious indoctrination in schools (it isn't.) Progressives immediately assume the problem is bigotry (it isn't.)

The issue here is a corrupt, dishonest, secretive, power-hungry group abusing of our charter system to pursue its own goals. They are not terrorists. But we don't like corrupt, dishonest, secretive, power-hungry groups of any religious affiliation. So there is no reason to give them a free pass just because they happen to be Muslim.

Fethullah Gulen is likely the most masterful manipulator of the media and public opinion living today. He and his followers have devoted a huge amount of energy to building a public perception of him in the west as a man who only wants to promote peace, tolerance and interfaith dialog.

Ask Hanefi Avci if he thinks Gulen promotes tolerance. Avci is sitting in a Turkish jail right now, his only crime being that he wrote a book critical of Gulen and the Gulen Movement:
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62090">Gulen Movement Taking PR Beating in Arrest Row

Supporting these schools means lending financial and moral support to Gulen and his Movement. Is this what our children should be involved in? University of Utah professor Hakan Yavuz, who used to be sympathetic to the Gulen Movement, now says
"Character assassination, sexual and racial innuendo aimed at destroying people's reputation in the eyes of conservatives, invented news stories, transcripts from illegal police wiretaps … In its fight to be the hegemonic power, the movement stops at nothing. It is terrorizing people."

Getting back closer to home, here are some things wrong with every one of these schools:

(1) They lie and deny their affiliation to the Gulen Movement (GM), even though there is massive evidence of this affiliation. Should people who lie be running our schools?

(2) They try threats and intimidation on anyone - including parents and teachers - who get in the way of their agenda.

(3) These schools are fronts for the GM to pursue its goals. They don't care about education; they only want the schools to succeed so they can use them to get what they want. The GM uses the same methodology, not only across the US, but across the world. They focus on winning awards, and preparing a very small, select group of students for competitions. The purpose is to generate good press.

(4) Low-performing and special needs students are marginalized. Psychological and other techniques are used to skew the enrollment towards higher-performing students. For example, parents are asked to list awards and honors and give information about academic performance on admissions forms, even though it is against charter law to use this in deciding admission. Students are asked to take a "placement exam" while still on an alleged "waiting list." All sorts of games are played with the waiting lists.

(5) As far as their high scores on state standardized tests, which is the main reason parents want their children to attend, look at this page
http://www.greatschools.org/modperl/achievement/nj/4106#from..HeaderLink">Paterson Charter School New Jersey standardized test results
How does a school go from 17% passing rate in math in 2008 to 68% in 2009? This cannot possibly reflect a true improvement in academic performance, unless inferior students were selected out, or the students were prepared intensely and specifically for this test, or some other manipulation was done. Ask any educator...this kind of improvement simply does not happen if everything is above board.

(6) These schools discriminate against women and teachers who aren't affiliated with the GM. Teachers have worked in them for years, expecting to be promoted, and not understanding that it will never happen because only GM members are allowed to control the key decision-making posts.

(7) The schools are abusing the H-1B visa system to bring people with little or no teaching experience here, taking jobs from Americans at a time when the teachers' job market is the worst in decades.

(8) The trend has been for these schools to have more and more overhead going to umbrella GM organizations that are often not even in the same state as the school. See a recent article out of Arizona:
http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/senor-reporter/article_9b232eea-de22-11df-bacf-001cc4c03286.html">What does $364K in tax money buy these charter schools?
The schools are not getting much in return for this overhead; it is mainly a way to funnel the money to Gulen's organizations.



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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #94
103. Thanks for the information.
It appears that you have at least attempted to provide some solid facts that can be considered and verified. I have to admit that I had only a fundamental knowledge about these schools. I consider Charter Schools to be little more than a way to destroy the teachers' unions under the guise of coming to the rescue to poor intercity kids. Poor performance is inextricably linked to poverty. If these earnest while saviors were serious about saving these kids they would be concerned about lifting these people out of poverty.

It has quickly spread to the middle class neighborhoods and a way to rescue the disadvantaged but providing life support for parochial schools. As I have tried to express I don't believe that a Catholic, Christian Fundamentalist or Muslim school can be magically transformed into secular school by simply dropping their religious classes. These schools control who is hired to teach. I fear that their religious credential are far more important than their teaching credentials. What amazes me is how what would have never been acceptable during most of my time has been come common place.

It seems to me that the radical Republican along with religious fundamentalists and Catholics have won the battle. I resent that fact that my property tax money is being expended on charter schools in which I have absolutely no control through my vote for those who are elected to the local school board.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
95. I did not realize the hatred against Edmonds.
She has been as critical of one political party as the other, I thought.

So the messenger has been killed, and the message is that it is okay because the messenger is on the bad list here.

I guess it surprised me. It is still wrong to give public money to charter schools of any religious type, in my mind.

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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. I do not hate Edmonds
I just think she is less than credible and her allegations hurt real people that have real families etc. I think her career is built on a lie and she is attempting to cash in on her carefully crafted persona as a gagged whistleblower. She is simply your run of the mill opportunist in my opinion.

I would agree that public money should not be given to religious schools of any kind. Whether the Gulen Movement is what Edmonds claims is another matter and based on her past, I highly doubt it. Lastly, even if Edmonds were for real, I think this piece is written to incite fear more than illuminate and debate the issue.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. Vinnie, go get the "Shadow of the Holy Book" DVD and watch it and come back here later...
... once you have, and tell us then that the kind of "education" that is being pushed through the Ruhmana that is discussed there isn't something that we should be concerned about.

As I note in a post above, there are others that tie this Turkmenistan effort to the likes of Ahmet Calik, who's tied a lot to the Turkish AKP power structure much like Gulen is. And though we don't see anything public as crazy as what is discussed in that movie, if a similar pattern of "education" is happening in these schools as what is going on there along with the other things going on behind the scenes, don't you think it is valid for someone like Edmonds to talk about it, and take issue with public money being used to fund something like that?

I can throw you another article by the Middle East Quarterly that uses terms like madrassas and a helluva lot more slamming of Gulen than Edmonds has here.

http://www.meforum.org/2045/fethullah-gulens-grand-ambition
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RRF1966 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. why it's wrong
cascadiance -
I don't think any of these schools is using Ruhnama in the classroom; their in-class curriculum is fairly standard. But your concerns are still relevant. By supporting these schools, our country is supporting the Gulen Movement, which as you say has been involved in activities in Central Asia that raise serious concerns, including association with and support of nefarious regimes such as the dictatorial leaders of Turkmenistan.

The Gulenist teachers at these charter schools spend a large amount of time with students in extracurricular activities. Some students are encouraged to attend summer programs in Turkey (at Gulen schools there) and that is where parents really start losing control of what sort of ideas are being subtly pushed on their children. Harmony School of Excellence in Texas is one example of a charter school offering a summer program in Turkey that includes Turkish language instruction for academic credit. The host family, teachers and other people the students interact with are all Gulenist and will want to impart their perspective on the students. Of course they are careful not to go to far. But many parents have no idea that this is more than just the usual international exchange program.

Another related point. Here are statements by ex-members of the Gulen Movement, from a Dutch TV program. They talk about how pressure tactics are used to recruit adolescents into the movement.
http://turkishinvitations.weebly.com/statements-by-ex-gulenists.html
Should we have people who have been brainwashed like this educating our children in publicly-funded schools?


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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #99
104. Thanks for the information.
This why I come to this site on a daily basis. It provides important information that is not easily obtained by only one person's efforts.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #99
105. Thanks for the information.
Edited on Fri Oct-29-10 10:54 AM by olegramps
This why I come to this site on a daily basis. It provides important information that is not easily obtained by only one person's efforts.
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