Is piercing a babies ears a form of child abuse?

[Renew Deal]

Lately I've seen some very young children or babies with their ears pierced. Most of these kids are too young to speak in words. The ones that are old enough to speak probably don't know what earings are anyway. There is no way they would ask to have their ears pierced.

Do you consider ear piecing for infants and toddlers a form of child abuse?

[flvegan]

1. Here we go!

:popcorn:

[EFerrari]

2. I was one of those toddlers and remember getting my ears pierced.

It didn't hurt and I've always loved my earrings, not to mention, those my mom and aunts wore so I could play with them. lol

[Warpy]

9. That's about when my best friend had her daughter's ears pierced

She's in her late 20s now and adores earrings, zillions of earrings, which makes her a breeze to buy for at Xmas and birthdays.

She certainly doesn't seem to resent it.

[EFerrari]

19. There are no aggrieved parties among my brazillion cousins.

I had two boys so it didn't come up at our house, although one of my sons got one ear pierced in the early 90s. It looks good on him, too.

[Donnachaidh]

52. your Mom probably made sure no infections occured too

I've sure seen kids who are in high school try to pierce friend's ears (and other parts) on the sly and have problems, the least of which was infection.

But parents doing it in a clean environment with lots of care is child abuse. :sarcasm:

Much ado about nothing. :eyes:

[sharp_stick]

3. Not if you circumcise them first

then the pain of the ear piercing is a welcome distraction.

[polichick]

67. Touche! nt

[HopeHoops]

4. So is circumcision.

If someone of reasonable age decides to mutilate or modify their body, that's their decision. Doing it to them when they aren't capable of objecting or fighting back is abuse.

Disclaimer: I was circumcised as an infant AND I have one ear pierced and a tattoo by my choice.

[AtomicKitten]

5. It's a cultural thing for some so it's tough to judge. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Only when using a nail gun.

[Renew Deal]

8. lol

:spank:

[Better Believe It]

11. A nail gun is cheaper and very quick!

[Toucano]

7. Not child abuse...just stupidity.

♫ You're so vain...♪

[Better Believe It]

10. Yes. Let them decide when they are older if they want holes poked into their ears or any other ...

body part.

[bluethruandthru]

37. Yep....the ears belong to the child, not the parent.

Too many parents think of their children as posessions - dolls they can dress up. Let them decide when they're older.

[TheWraith]

12. No, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.

In fact it's quite stupid.

[ejpoeta]

13. no i do not. i haven't had my kids done however because i always felt

it wasn't my choice to make for them. when they got old enough to ask i would let them do it. when emily asked at 5 i rethought that because she wouldn't be able to care for her ears as she should. so I took her when she turned ten, thinking she would be old enough to take care of them properly.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

14. Obviously yes. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.

I think I have made my thesis forceful enough.

The intentional infliction of pain and/or injury to an infant for the amusement/gratification of the parent for no medical or educational purpose is child abuse.

And the fact that something is taken for granted is not a fucking intellectual get-of-jail-free card.

These arguments are fucking tedious. It is indisputably child abuse.

Now one can argue about whether forms of child abuse are justified.

Perhaps it is a wonderful form of child abuse... or something.

Perhaps I would be fine having a young daughter's ears pierced... it doesn't seem to be the end of the world. But it would still be presumptuous and abusive.

[EFerrari]

24. What you seem to be ignoring is that it is not painful or injurious

if done properly and the piercing will close over later if the child decides she doesn't want it.

Good grief.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

34. Cool. It is a fairly benign form of abuse.

The problem with OPs like this is that they are calculated to create senseless disagreement.

Nobody wants to think of what they do as abuse. It's a heavy word.

But sticking pins through parts of non-consenting people with no medical or otherwise essential purpose is obviously abusive.

It is a cultural tradition that happens to also be facially abusive, but not high on the list of worst abuses.

I am not crying about it, but why on earth do people want to play this tedious word game?

1) If I went around poking holes in children I would be imprisoned.
2) Children are not property of their parents.
3) Fill in the blank.

And the reason I am so fucking pissed off is that this thread is a follow on to arguments that arose in a very serious OP I did about the ethics of female genital mutilation that was hijacked by the usual assholes trying to trivialize FGM by turning it into a conversation about equivalence.

[EFerrari]

39. Well, I agree about the senseless disagreement/equivalency part

and will leave the thread.

But, I maintain that to characterize this as abuse is way over the top and somewhat culture blind. In Latino families, this is a way to love little girls, to establish their worth as individuals in a world that habitually looked on them as cheap labor when it noticed them at all.

It isn't painful or injurious if done correctly and it generally is reversible. There is no abuse here as there are no negative consequences to the child -- unless, like anything else, it's done badly or stupidly. But that's also true of putting your kid in a car seat or feeding them street food.

[Renew Deal]

40. I disagree that this thread is calculated to create disagreement.

I think the disagreement is already there. Also, I cringe every time I see a young child with a piercing. There are other things I see in the world that I think are questionable and I ask about them on DU. Sometimes DUers agree. Sometimes they don't. I really had no idea how DU would react to this.

[Shallah Kali]

64. It IS painful. it hurt when I got mine pierced, other kids were crying

I only teared up but then my Mom waited until I was old enough to understand it would hurt and be responsible for keeping the ear holes clean. I remember feeling bad for the toddlers who sobbed after their ears were pierced.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arugula Latte]

68. Oh FFS

:eyes:

[TexasObserver]

15. Let's see. Female genital mutilation thread. Baby piercing thread.

Can we get the trifecta?

I feel a circumcision thread in the works.

It will be near a body of water, near a sign that mentions a tree or some geographic feature.

[leftstreet]

54. I'd give you 5 bucks if you started a circumcision thread

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[TexasObserver]

71. That won't cut it.

[SheilaT]

16. To call it abuse

seems way over the top to me. If I'd had daughters instead of sons, I would not have pierced their ears when very young. And I probably would have refused to let them have it done until they were at least 12, maybe older. But that's me. I did get my own ears pierced at age 18.

[slackmaster]

17. Other - It's too small of an issue to bother arguing about whether or not it qualifies as "abuse"

There are a lot more important things to worry about, like giving a young boy a Mullet haircut.

[NeedleCast]

23. Thread Needs No Input Beyond This Post

Win.

[snooper2]

45. Or this, real child abuse...

[cynatnite]

18. Lately? They've been doing that for some time now...

I'm not sure if it's abuse, though. I've seen toddlers get pierced and they act like nothing happened. I've seen teenagers cry like babies at a piercing.

My preferences are to wait until a child is old enough to decide if they want to be peirced or not.

[southernyankeebelle]

20. My mom was from Italy and had her ears pierced when she was an infant. She died in her mid 60s and

it didn't hurt her. My granddaughter had her ears done at 4 months old. My son bought her $400.00 diamond earrings. She is 4 and still has them. As long as you take care of the child's ears there is nothing wrong with it. Latin countries most baby girls have their ears done. I had my done by a friend when I was 21. I would never have a friend do it again. I had them redone at a jewlery store with a gun and that was a whole bunch better.

[snot]

21. Personally,

I wouldn't inflict any pain on a baby or other creature unnecessarily. With a child, I'd at least wait 'til they were old enough to understand why it was being done.

This is much more the case re- circumcision than ear-piercing, but same basic principle.

[seabeyond]

22. are shots abusive to a baby..... i wouldnt get a baby pierced, be more like 13 yr old present

but i dont see it as abusive either. and there are shots we are giving our babies that they dont need, when someone says.... but they need.

[Goblinmonger]

25. We all make decisions for our kids.

This one seems pretty innocuous.

Some people would (and actually did) say it was child abuse for us to raise our children as vegetarians. They assured me that my son (now 14, 6 foot and 165 lbs and a youth national champion wrestler) would never get enough protein to flourish.

[elleng]

26. No, but I hate it anyway.

'husb' took daughters for this, even tho he well knew I objected. p.o.s! (They were nowhere NEAR infants at the time, maybe 5+)

[Vickers]

27. Yes, it's exactly like beating them with a belt. n/t

:eyes:

[Iggo]

28. mAKE IT STOP. mAKE IT STOP. mAKE IT STOP.

[KurtNYC]

29. a virtually painless procedure that last 15 seconds ??

One has to wonder if you are familiar with real child abuse, or if this question is really about child abuse at all.

There are children in this country who are beaten, abandoned, sold for sex, locked in closets, have drugs hidden in their diapers, told they are worthless, drugged, born with addictions, slapped, kicked, burned with cigarettes, choked, and shaken into brain damage.

In 2008, 1,703 American children were killed by child abuse.

[jp11]

30. Tecnically it is 'abuse' a small abuse but abuse

so is injecting a RFID chip, or removing a healthy 6th finger or superfluous nipple.

I think a child can choose to pierce their ears when they are old enough to buy into how and what they should look like to fit the roles society/culture put on them, parents don't need to 'help them out' by taking this kind of choice away from them so they are 'indoctrinated' to accept it for fashion/whatever earlier/sooner.

I liken this to the silly things some people do to animals to make them fashion accessories or fit the 'breed'.

[bettyellen]

60. oh please my brother was so happy they removed his extra finger before he could remember

[blondeatlast]

31. "Lately?" I'd love to know where you live that this is uncommon.

Piercing doesn't hurt, period, trust me.

I know. ;)

[Lucian]

32. Oh geez. Is this a serious fucking question?

Good gods. Of course it isn't. If it was, then places wouldn't offer it.

I'm going to hide this thread for asking a really stupid question. This is a DU first for me, by the way. Congratulations.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

35. WINNER!!!!!!!

"Of course it isn't. If it was, then places wouldn't offer it."

Yes, we should define abuse in terms of whether or not a practice exists.

If it was abuse it wouldn't be done!

[Celeborn Skywalker]

77. Question

Around here I would say roughly 80-90 percent of Hispanic families pierce their babys' ears. So are you willing to charge nine out of ten Hispanics with child abuse? Serious question.

[Renew Deal]

36. So you're saying that products legally sold cannot be abusive?

That's a pretty broad generalization.

[Chan790]

73. I'd like to address that.

One of my friends from when I worked at Starbucks now manages a tattoo and piercing parlor, a clean and professional place. There is a trade and industry association for that field and like any trade association, they have guidelines/rules-of-conduct/professional-standards. You'll never guess what one of those rules is: "I will not undertake the body-modification of children even with parental consent, including ear piercing."

So, yeah, even the professionals disagree with the practice. That tells me something when the people who know the procedure best refuse to do it, leaving it the domain of underqualified individuals using piercing guns at the Claire's in the mall. Hint: Piercing guns are amateur, the wrong way to pierce an ear. Use a needle made for that purpose (they're hollow for one thing and cut rather than puncture a hole)...it punches a clean hole unlike the gun & reduces the risk of infection and other complications.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

38. At most a mild one.

"Child abuse" is a nebulous term - it's usually used only to refer to doing extremely bad things to children, but it could arguably mean "doing anything bad to a child".

Piercing a child's ears is a bad thing to do to it, and should arguably be illegal, but it's not comparable to most of the things that are usually referred to as "child abuse".

[proteus_lives]

41. No but it is silly.

[superduperfarleft]

42. I don't think it qualifies as "abuse," but I wouldn't do it. n/t

[JoePhilly]

43. NO. But I draw the line at fetal labia piercing!!!!

That's just sick.

As is tongue spikes through the infant male foreskin.

:hide:

[zen_bohemian]

44. Oh good god on a segway!!! Seriously?!

I had my kid's ears pierced at 2 years old. Does she regret it? nope. She has had 5 more piercings in her ears since then, and she made the decision for every one herself. Is it child abuse, I do not think so. If you are going to go that argument, then is circumsion child abuse? I cannot believe that this topic is even going on, must be a slow day in GD.

[ieoeja]

46. No. But in my opinion it should not be done. (nt)

[LanternWaste]

47. No more, nor no less than

No more, nor no less than getting a tattoo is a form of self-mutilation, or a baby being carried in its seventh month is a parasite. :shrug:




I imagine it depends wholly on one's perspective (and penchant for the banal)

[WolverineDG]

48. what is it with the FGM, circumcision, & ear piercing threads today?

are we that far behind in making our "flame bait" quota for this month?

dg

[Sheepshank]

49. Hmm inflicting any pain is abuse?

seriously?
Immunizations,
Ear canal checks
Dentists,
Combing hair,
Applying sun screen on the face.
swimming lessons
karate lessons
Football practice
Piano lessons
Changing diapers
making kids wear clothes that match
walking until feet hurt at Disneyland
Curlers
Braces
Rubbing baby's tear duct blocked eyes
Shoes


Gawd...just shoot me before the shame of having CFS remove my children from me.

[Pathwalker]

50. Lately? You must not have been paying attention then.

It's been going on for as long as I can remember, and I'm over 60 now.
:eyes:

[Donnachaidh]

51. oh for shit's sake!

All the Moms I know who did that with their kids did it because of culture. Are we going to become such hall monitors that now we can pass judgement on people because of their cultural upbringing?

[JuniperLea]

53. I'm torn on this one...

I get grossed out if I think too much about the holes in my own lobes... ew! I feel mutilated! But I wouldn't wear my favorite pearl and diamond earrings if my ears weren't pierced because they would be too easy to lose. Besides, wearing clip earrings is torture without question! So is shaving or waxing your legs, underarms, upper lips, eyebrows, etc.

I think it is mutilation, it truly is. I'm quickly losing the idea that anything cultural is off limits. We probably hang onto too much because of cultural beliefs.

[pgodbold]

55. Let me be on record as being against poking holes into and cutting things off of children. nt

[racaulk]

57. So you're also against childhood vaccinations?

:hide:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

56. It was considered very declasse when I grew up

A lower class thing to do. Not sure how I feel about it now. We did not do it to any of our children

[bettyellen]

61. well see that, it allows you to know who you should look down on. isn't that great!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

63. If you read my post you would have known that I have ambiguous feelings about it

However back then many adult women did not have pierced ears either. In this, like many other areas, things change.

We let our kids make their own decisions on body modifications. Some have piercings and ink, others have none.

[bettyellen]

66. hopefully what you have ambiguous feeling about is considering other people customs as "declasse"

because that's the stuff of narrow minded twits are made of.

[JanMichael]

58. Maybe not abuse but certainly stupid.

Parents who do that are doing it for themselves not the baby. Selfish prigs.

[pipi_k]

59. Well, dammit, it HAS to be...

because poking a baby's ears with a needle, causing it to cry, is abuse.

Just like poking a baby with a needle in the course of getting a vaccination is child abuse. I mean, really...how can anybody sit by and listen to those poor mites scream bloody murder at the tops of their lungs from being vaccinated? It HURTS, goddammit!!!

And everyone KNOWS that vaccinations aren't necessary.

:sarcasm:




Just about anything a parent wants to have done on a kid can, by someone, be viewed as "child abuse" and there will be lots of people out there jumping up and down proclaiming it so.

Meanwhile, the true victims of REAL child abuse...the kids beaten, burned by cigarettes, shaken, slapped, thrown against walls...they have that many less people looking out for them because the only "child abuse" that really matters to some people is the kind where no kid really gets maimed or dead.

Ear piercing!!!

We all need to fight the abuse!!!

more :sarcasm:

[Caretha]

62. No problem

as long as it doesn't sexually affect them in any way.

[jmowreader]

65. No. It is not.

Now, if you REALLY want to talk about child abuse, anyone remember Prell shampoo? It came in a tube and, if it got in your eyes, it burned like you wouldn't believe for about twenty minutes. Oh, they HAD Johnson's Baby Shampoo in the 1960s, but my parents always bought Prell and they ALWAYS, without fail, got that shit in all of our eyes while they were washing our hair.

Given the choice between 20 minutes of unbelievable agony every week or getting a needle run through my earlobes once, I definitely would have taken the needles.

[Odin2005]

69. YES!

[BolivarianHero]

70. I dunno...

Is telling kids that gays are deviant Soddomites destined for Hell and that atheists are unfit for higher office and unworthy of full citizenship a form of child abuse?

[Renew Deal]

74. Yes

[rucky]

72. It's not abuse, and saying so marginalizes actual abuse.

It's not done with malice.

If a parent neglects to keep the ears clean and risks infection, then we can talk.

[Sweet Charming Dem]

75. The problem is people getting it done with filthy piercing guns at the mall

Guns should NEVER be used for piercing. And the "ear cleaning solution" is crap.

Most legit piercers aren't going to pierce a baby, both due to consent issues, and placement issues.

[a la izquierda]

76. I voted no.

In my family, all little girls have their ears pierced and always have. My ears have been pierced since I was about 2. My niece had her ears pierced this past summer, before her second birthday. I'm fairly certain my mother (her grandmother) wasn't abusing her.