Today I voted for Kendrick Meek because DU said I should. Now I feel stupid.

[Towlie]

According to http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/senate/florida">FiveThirtyEight.com, Kendrick Meek has less than a 1% chance of winning Florida's U.S. Senate seat by beating both teabagger Marco Rubio and ex-Republican Charlie Crist. I voted for Meek anyway because that's what DU said I should do. Was it the right choice?

I would rather see Florida send Charlie Crist to the Senate than Marco Rubio, as I'm sure most sensible Florida Democrats would. I don't like Crist one bit but he is the lesser of two evils. After all, the man has let at least a tiny shred of human decency show through a couple of times. However, everyone on DU said no, vote for the Democrat no matter what, so that's what I did. Now, according to http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/senate/florida">FiveThirtyEight.com, Crist and Meek together will get over 55% of the vote vs. less than 44% for Rubio, yet Rubio has more than a 90% chance of winning. In other words, the majority of voters will have effectively voted against Rubio, yet he'll be declared the winner with the help of our logically flawed voting system.

I already argued in a thread I started last week that in a campaign with more than two candidates and no runoff system in place, it's just as logical to vote against the candidate you dislike the most as to vote for your favorite candidate. It's just a question of which choice will be more effective and efficient. If all Democrats were to face reality and agree to vote against the teabagger rather than for the Democrat, we'd succeed in making the best of a bad situation. However, since DU made it clear that it wasn't going to happen that way, there was no point in even trying.

I'm not suggesting that any other Floridians here should vote for Crist. I didn't, and you shouldn't either because it's too late for that now. I'm just saying that for the next six years, whenever you see Senator Rubio on the news and hear about the damage he's doing, think about how we could have defeated him if we could only have gotten together and voted rationally.

[UndertheOcean]

1. So you let DU do the thinking for you ? don't know what to say.

I see my self voting for Kucinich / or Nader once it is legal for me to vote, so I can't crucify you , but to vote due to peer pressure does not make sense at all.

[SugarShack]

63. I call it blind obedience!

[Divine Discontent]

64. DU most definitely did NOT tell them to vote for Meek. There were tons of us saying Meek had next

to no chance of winning for weeks now! Crist is the "anybody but rubio" hope we've had for months, since Crist decided to run, because Meek wasn't a very exciting candidate (see his 15% polling if you wish to argue).

[lpbk2713]

2. Mail me a certified check in the amount of $10,000.

Just remember I said you should.

[grantcart]

39. Are you the guy that can hook me up with the Nigerian Prince who needs

$ 10,000 in order to process a Customs claim and repatriate $ 4.1 million dollars?


My friends keep telling me I would be the perfect partner for this guy but I can't seem to find his businees rep for North America.

[cliffordu]

62. you got my vote.

:rofl:

[WorseBeforeBetter]

3. I'd feel stupid for posting that.

You let a bunch of strangers on a message board decide your vote for you? Really?

[K8-EEE]

61. +1

[DonCoquixote]

4. OK

I will be polite, but I need to say this.

The entire reason Meek is losing is because a lot of democrats got behind Crist, why? Just because he threw the teachers a dogbone that did not mean anything in the long run, as he was leaving office?

Do not blame ken meek because crist successfully split the Democrats. The trick the GOp did worked, made us democrats fight each other, while the GOp machinery worked with the precision of a Hitler March. If we did not abandon meek because Crist was kinda sorta less of GOp then Rubio, we would we winning.

Expect the same rinse and repeat trick when Crist runs in 2012.

[Towlie]

10. "Expect the same rinse and repeat trick when Crist runs in 2012." Runs for what?

[DonCoquixote]

19. er..

Gee, I wonder what is being decided in 2012, furthermore...I wonder who could throw a lot of money Charlie's way, since he plays right into the people who will be mad that Hillary will not run...HMmm

[Towlie]

47. er.. You could have more realistically meant Bill Nelson's Senate seat. That's why I asked. But no.

I guess you really do wonder what is being decided in 2012.

If Charlie Crist can't beat the Republican candidate for U. S. Senate in Florida, I hardy think he'll crawl back to the GOP and try for the Republican Presidential nomination for 2012, and it's totally ridiculous to think he'll try to win the Presidency as an independent.

I'll bet what you really thought was that Senators serve for two year terms, just like members of the House of Representatives, and Crist would try to beat Rubio again in 2012. Now you're trying to cover that up and getting in deeper with this idea that Crist will run for President.

[DonCoquixote]

58. Apparently you cannot understand sarcasm

OF COURSE WE ALL KNOW THAT THE PRESIDENCY IS UP FOR GRABS 2012!

There is no cover up, just the simple fact that there is nothing stopping companies from pouring as much money as needed into a campaigner that DOES NOT ACTUALLY HAVE TO WIN, but merely has to split the democratic vote!

And if you think that it is "ridiculous" that Charlie wound do anything, you are mistaken. A lot of people thought it was ridiculous he would run as an independent, yet he did. Never underestimate what can and will be done for money, and sadly, the GOP has plenty of it.

Lay off your weed Towlie, when you cannot understand sarcasm, your medicinal herbs have failed to be much of a cure.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

69. Not so much "up for grabs" as "on the auction block"

*sigh*

[sandnsea]

5. Rationally, yes, ALL for Kendrick Meek n/t

[JI7]

6. there are a few on DU who are supporting and voting Crist so who is DU ?

it's been a debate for some time now. you didn't know this was the situation before you voted ?

[hlthe2b]

7. I see many are anxious to make you feel badly...

The truth is that it may well not make any difference at all in terms of the Rubio juggernaut. Unless Meek and Crist had combined forces in some way to defeat Rubio, with one of them throwing their support to the other, I don't know what else would have made the difference. Crist still might have an outside chance of defeating Rubio, but I doubt it. So, in the end, you voted your conscience. So be it.

[elocs]

8. You're in a no-win situation here. Had you admitted you voted for Crist,

then they would have been all over you like ugly on an ape. That's the way it is here.

[RagAss]

9. I voted for Meek...you know why?

Because I'm a Goddam Democrat, that's why !

[Mojorabbit]

33. My whole family is voting Crist

because we have to try and stop Rubio as best we can. Otherwise we are voting straight Dem down the line in all the other races.

[chimpymustgo]

49. You can't stop Rubio, so why support the self-interested snake? If Dems voted for the DEM he'd win!

Why are we so ready to capitulate? STAND THE FUCK UP!

[Mojorabbit]

60. The gap is narrowing per a poll today

and I think it is doable. I have to live here and am voting accordingly.

[CarmanK]

11. You voted your principles, No regrets, NONE!!

Those who come to Democratic Underground are people, mostly, who aspire democratic, liberal, socially responsibly values and that is where we get our discourse. I pay attention to these bloggers. You voted for Meeks. You said you do not like Crist, you do not like Rubio. So, voting for Meek is the right thing to do for you and your value system. Elections are necessary in a democracy and there will be another is 2, 4, and 6 years. The important thing is that we as citizens are in it for the long haul. So, vote your conscience and let Rubio drown in his own muck. He'll be a newbie in the Senate, should he win, and if he is as bad as many of the tpartiers appear, he will not survive. Perhaps, by then, the Dems in FL can continue to build their party and their influence. And for all our sakes, get the election process under control so the repukes can't cause so much havoc for minorities to exercise their right to vote.

[defendandprotect]

12. We need IRV voting .... 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice ...!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Or Approval or Condorcet. Anything is better than this pluarlity mess we have now.

[defendandprotect]

15. Hadn't heard of "Approval" or "Condorcet" ...

can probably look them up -- do you want to tell us how they differ from IRV?

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Sure. :^) Approval voting, the way I understand it, is to literally just

check off anyone you approve of for a particular office. In that regard I could vote for the Dem, the Green, the Socialist, and anyone else who fits my idea as a suitable representative. Totals are tallied up and the person with the clear majority is the winner. My only concern with this system is not having seen it in use, are we more likely to wind up with a tie which then requires a costly and time consuming run-off? There are variations on approval voting which you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting

Condorcet voting is a little more difficult to explain. It starts out similar to IRV in that you rank the candidates by choice. However, some people feel that IRV still suffers from the spoiler problem if likely voters for (in our case) liberal candidates split too evenly allowing the Repub to get in anyway. In IRV you basically just keep recounting round after round and redistributing piles as candidates are dropped off due to having too low a vote count. With Condorcet the back end or counting process isn't simply taking the overall tallies per round. Instead it's a head-to-head match of each candidate.

"The count is conducted by pitting every candidate against every other candidate in a series of imaginary one-on-one contests. The winner of each pairing is the candidate preferred by a majority of voters. The candidate preferred by each voter is taken to be the one in the pair that the voter ranks highest on their ballot paper. For example, if Alice is paired against Bob it is necessary to count both the number of voters who have ranked Alice higher than Bob, and the number who have ranked Bob higher than Alice. If Alice is preferred by more voters then she is the winner of that pairing. When all possible pairings of candidates have been considered, if one candidate beats every other candidate in these contests then they are declared the Condorcet winner. As noted above, if there is no Condorcet winner a further method must be used to find the winner of the election, and this mechanism varies from one Condorcet method to another."

You can see a mock election worked out Condorcet style here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_method

And you can read some interesting arguments concerning Condorcet, approval, and IRV here: http://votingreform.tribe.net/thread/31d8234b-1fb5-4198-9594-2673179977dc

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

59. OK ... thank you... and late so can't absorb all of that now...

and thank you for going to the trouble of putting all of that together --

I will look at it tomorrow --

thanks, again!!

:)

[The Northerner]

13. Um, voting for the REAL progressive Dem shouldn't be considered stupid

[defendandprotect]

17. True, but if we want to knock out right wing corporates... Repugs are first up!

After that you can double back and deal with corporate-Dems --

[HCE SuiGeneris]

16. Don't feel stupid for voting for a good candidate.

EOM

[EconomicsIsGod]

18. Learn to think for yourself.

Problem solved.

[jp11]

20. Turn off the TV, Radio, Internet, never read a book or any piece of paper

move out into the wild and avoid all human contact because if you will do what others tell you to do simply because they said so you are dangerous.

[lynne]

21. You let a political forum decide your vote for you??

Our vote is a precious thing. I would no more let any web forum influence my vote than I would let it influence who I was to marry.

[lynne]

22. Delete Dupe - Computer Hiccup

[LoZoccolo]

23. I accidentally for Kendrick Meek, is that bad? n/t

[immoderate]

25. Kendrick deserves my vote. He will get it.

I like what he says.

--imm

[iamjoy]

26. You Were Right Not to Trust Crist

I voted for Meek. I'm usually more of a pragmatist, but I could not bring myself to vote for Crist. He's an opportunist. It occurred to me that once Crist realized he couldn't beat Rubio in a Republican primary, his strategy changed. This is why he vetoed those extreme bills. For Crist the best case scenario was to run as a moderate in hopes of getting enough votes from either side to win. However, he knew that if that failed, his actions would peel away enough Democrats to help Rubio win, which was his second choice all along. Any otherwise loyal Dems who thinks Crist is on our side is being played

:tinfoilhat:

[ibegurpard]

28. yup, the guy's a slime

[ibegurpard]

27. you voted for him because DU said you should?

why did you not vote for who you thought was the very best candidate?

[Radical Activist]

29. You would rather have voted for Crist because a poll said you should?

You made your own decision about how to vote.

I think Rubio could have been defeated if Democrats had ignored the polls from day one and made a full effort to elect Meek.

[TheKentuckian]

55. +1 Florida Democrats outfoxed their damn selves running scared

Seems goofy kicking your self in the ass for not voting Gingrich because DeLay was in the race or some such nonsense.

[Fla_Democrat]

30. It was the right choice for me

According to FiveThirtyEight.com, Kendrick Meek has less than a 1% chance of winning Florida's U.S. Senate seat by beating both teabagger Marco Rubio and ex-Republican Charlie Crist. I voted for Meek anyway because that's what DU said I should do. Was it the right choice?

I'm sorry you are feeling remorse, I have none. There simply isnt any way I could have marked my ballot for Chain-gang Charlie, but hey, we all have to be able to get up and look in the mirror, come next Wednesday.

I like my chances. :smoke:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

31. It doesn't matter

Meek and Crist will split the vote because neither wanted to drop out and Rubio now will win. This race has been over for months. I hope everyone in the Sunshine State enjoys this nitwit and asks themselves how such a pathetic character could even get out of a primary, nevermind be the actual Senator. Then again, I don't know how a guy like Mel Martinez (who obviously just wanted to put "Senator" on his resume) got in either. You folks have some real winners. Maybe Katherine Harris still has a shot.

The fact you only figured out today that Meek (and Crist) have no shot speaks volumes.

[MilesColtrane]

32. Don't worry, you'll feel like the love child of Stephen Hawking and Marilyn vos Savant if...

Crist wins and ends up caucusing with the Republicans.

[Kurovski]

34. Don't fret, Towlie.

I have no idea what's going on either.

What did Chekov write? "In 100 years, who will know we were ever here?"

[TorchTheWitch]

35. you should feel stupid for voting the way others want you to

especially others you don't even know.

[Jamastiene]

36. Rule #1 when it comes to your vote:

It is your vote to do with it what YOU feel is best.

If you let someone else tell you how to vote and do not think it through for yourself, expect to be disappointed and feel terrible afterward.

That said, I would NOT want to be in your shoes this election. Your choices are so shitty (for various reasons) that you possibly would have felt miserable after voting either way in this case.

I don't envy you or anyone else in Florida this election. You are in a situation where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Obamanaut]

37. If you read here you should jump off a bridge - AVOID BRIDGES. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

38. You couldn't have defeated Rubio with both Crist and Meek running, so don't blame yourself.

The only two chances of beating Rubio were if Crist dropped out and endorsed Meek, and if Meek dropped out and endorsed Crist.

I'm not going to get into the argument between those two options, but without either of them there was no chance of beating Rubio, so don't worry about it.

[Vickers]

40. Don't let any dumbfuck make you feel bad about voting for a Democrat over a Repuke. n/t

[kstewart33]

41. Don't worry; you're not alone.

A whole bunch of people here voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. You know - the guy who said there was a dime's worth of difference between Bush and Al Gore.

Ideology often trumps common sense.

[AndrewP]

42. Letting others tell you how to vote is a Republican thing n/t

[marmar]

43. This OP has a tragicomic quality to it.

nt

[blondeatlast]

68. Indeed. nt

[Dappleganger]

44. Crist is the 3rd party spoiled here, HE should have never run as an NPA.

That fact that you're apologizing for voting for a democrat and blaming other people on DU for your decision says more about you than anything else.

[xchrom]

45. Voting for people like crist is how the democratic party becomes

More and more conservative.

They become the 'deciders' on how legislative policy
Is crafted.

[racaulk]

46. Runoff voting would certainly help Florida in this case.

That's what we have here in Georgia. If no candidate in an election gets 50% of the vote, the two candidates that received the most votes are forced into a runoff election the following month. That way, one candidate mathematically has to be supported by the majority of voters, and the winner of the runoff election is declared the victor.

If Rubio and Crist were in a runoff election, I feel confident that Crist would win. And of those two options, that would be better for all of us.

But in the future, vote your conscience. Don't let anonymous people on the Internet decide your vote for you.

:hi:

[Ganja Ninja]

48. I voted for Meek because he was the only choice I had.

There's nothing irrational about it, Christ is a Republican. I don't see how electing Republican "B" over Republican "A" is making the best of a bad situation.

You're way over thinking this. You should vote your choice based on principals and stop worrying over whether someone is a Teabagger candidate or a Republican. It's 6 of one and a 1/2 dozen of the other. Besides Rubio is only using the teabaggers. He'll vote the GOP line and leave the T-baggers behind once he's elected. He's looking to move up in the party and be the so called "Republican Obama".

[Mokoil]

50. "our logically flawed voting system"

What would you consider a "logically flawless voting system"?

[LisaL]

51. If DU told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?

Think for yourself and do things because that's what you want to do, not because somebody else told you to do something.

[mstinamotorcity]

52. Why do you feel Stupid????

You wanted to vote for Crist. If it was going to bring you that much doubt then you should have voted your conscience. Or maybe did a little research to support your decision. As for voting for Kendrick Meek it seems as though you are voting for the Democratic Nominee. He earned that spot. It may not be a vote lost. And what if the repug vote get split between the repug and the indy???Seems as though Meek could reap the spoils. Why should I believe the polls when there are more registered Democrats.

[Horse with no Name]

53. I wouldn't sweat it

The chances of your vote being counted in Florida is a crapshoot anyway!

[flvegan]

54. Ha! I'm voting for Rubio just to cancel your vote out!

Oh...wait a minute...

[4_Legs_Good]

56. In 2000 I voted for Nader.

As I did in 1996. I go back and forth between voting my concience and voting strategically. After the Gore situation in 2000, though, I think I got a bit more realistic, but I think both are legitimate.

Geesh, I also remember voting for the Democrat against Schwarzenegger in the recall election, and he was such a poor candidate, I actually regret that to this day - should have voted Green or Peace and Freedom once Arianna withdrew (which she should never have done).

As far as the numbers I see in Florida, however, Rubio has it in the bag unless Meek were to withdraw and endorse Crist, and that's not happening, and even if it did, it's probably too late.

Dont' feel too bad, but try to not let DU tell you what to do, though use it to make your own judgement.

David

[BeFree]

57. Heh?

You feel stupid?

Well now, you also look stupid. Geesh.

[SugarShack]

65. The party thing is blind obedience. Think for yourself. Look what they've done.

[blondeatlast]

66. I have a lovely bridge; it's going cheap; and it's even habitable! nt

[blondeatlast]

67. Your state party failed you, not Meek. And since when could DU agree on anything?

Sorry, basing your vote on DU was stupid. Period.

[Fla Dem]

70. self deleted