Have you personally known someone who was/still is in an arranged marriage?

[raccoon]

What was his/her attitude about arranged marriages?

[no_hypocrisy]

1. The concept of arranged marriages has scared me since childhood.

Witches and ogres and dragons in fairy tales didn't scare me. It was being forced to marry someone and you had no choice.

My father's mother was a "victim" of an arranged marriage. She became an orphan at age 18 at the end of the Nineteenth Century in Pennsylvania. She went to live with her brother and his wife. But since they had to support her, and three's-a-crowd, a search for a husband became a priority. They chose my grandfather because he was A) single, B) Jewish, and C) from Lithuania (you had to be "the right kind of Jew"). My grandmother was informed about the wedding at the end of the week. She had to go through the ceremony, but to her credit, she showed her objection to the whole thing by boycotting the honeymoon for about a half week by running back to her brother's home. She was returned, lived with the marriage, had my father in the process, and that's why I'm here.

[slackmaster]

2. Yes, a former co-worker

He says it worked fine for him and his wife, in the culture that they came from (Tamil).

[dkf]

My grandparents were.

It was cute how well they got on with each other. That side of the family is a lot more cohesive than my other side...more high achievers and stable marriages than my other side of the family.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. Yes

My friend Sapna. Her parents selected 'well' for her and she's extremely happy. She's Indian.

Her attitude - It could not work in many cultures. And it won't work for any of her children that have been born and are being raised in America. She was the last of the 'old ways' of India, her children are to be fully Americanized - both she and her husband agree with that.

BTW - Her mother-in-law is a women's rights activist in India. I.E. Her in-laws are as progressive (put that in the context of India) as her parents are so she feels her parents and his parents chose well.

Also - they got to meet each other and 'see if they liked' each other prior to agreeing with their parents selection.

Her parent's first choice she was not even remotely attracted to.

[seabeyond]

4. a lady from india. ooosh....

she sees the plus in arranged. she is ok with her lot. but man, there is that whole male thing going on in that house and eeew. lol. we were on a long trip, 6 hours, over night, and 6 hours back. lots of talking. i have gps. the voice was telling me where to go, plus being adult and capable i was able to figure it out myself. her son would repeat instructions from gps, like the only reason i made it was cause he directed me. fuckin 11 yr old. lol. he got in car on trip home, without his mother. first time, i turned on him and told him.... knock it off.

the boy was boss of his mother. really gross. my son and i had a tough time with it.

whatever

ah, and she is so fascinated and admires and in awe of my attitude of equality.

[Vehl]

26. Seems to be more of a case of a disobedient Child

Any Average Indian mother would have scolded the kid (and given him a slap or two in the unlikely event that he does not stop..maybe not in front of strangers; but definitely when they get home) if he does something like this. however, there are cases in which the mother does not care/is too fond of her child to scold him/her. This seems to be one of those cases...or maybe she is one of those super-timid women.

imho this is certainly not a case of inequality. Lol in most cases its the mother/wife who is bossing around the Child/husband.

Just ask any of your other Indian friends.none of them would have their child do such a silly thing. (unless of course they think that doing such a thing as repeating the directions is a childish prank, in which case they might overlook it)

In south Asia kids are given a lot of leeway (parents would nod and say "well kids will be kids")but are also supposed to follow draconian rules set by their parents.

[seabeyond]

27. good to know

thank you for the info. we have a handful of families from india and my son is friends with the group. i have had experience with two of the boys. that child was irritating. and the mother is timid... submissive it seems. she was to me too. i had to insist, she make her own choices, wasn't mine to do. was so odd. i wondered if it wasn't a hierarchy thing, males dominate. but...

having the other child over recently for an over night, i found the same tendency of allowing the boy to be dominate. i really like this mother. she doesn't seem to be timid. but that same feel seems to be there.

i was wondering.

couple decades ago, i hung out with a guy from iran. though they have massive respect for their females.... mothers, sisters, .... there was the male hierarchy from his explanation and a real coddling of the boy. his was a family of money.

[Vehl]

30. You are welcome

Its hard for me to make a realistic assessment without knowing the people. So take my explanations with a pinch of salt :)

In my experience, yes there are some families that treasure their boys more, but mostly those are the ones who have fewer boys than girls. Families that have more boys than girls usually treasure their girls. My cousin has 3 kids, but he dotes on the single daughter, much to chagrin of the other two boys.

I do not have any sisters, thus my parents dote/doted over the daughters of our relatives/neighbors when we were growing up.lol

Yet another thing I noticed was the differing thresholds for kiddish pranks/rudeness between those from South Asia, and the Average American (I know this is quite a generalized statement). It is not uncommon for kids to prance around/annoy elders/parents when they are conversing with other relatives in South Asia. The relatives would just nod and smile and not be offended. For them, kids will be kids and a lot of things considered quite rude over here is excused because its considered childish exuberance. However, some South Asian parents forget that such behavior is considered rude over here. In such cases I've seen the parents being totally clueless to the fact that the people around them are silently fuming over the antics of their kids. I do not know if this is a valid explanation or if it would even fit the situation, but some of these issues are due to different cultural worldviews, especially the differences between high and low context cultures, I guess.

however, you could let the parents know that you disapprove of the action of their kid, and im sure they would rectify the mistakes. :)

I don't know much about Iranian culture though.

[seabeyond]

33. that is so excellent. i am glad you took the time to talk to me.

that is exactly how it feels. i have even thought that. i told my son..... that behavior would NEVER be allowed in this hosue. not that he doesnt already know that. and would nto behave like that. that being said.

one child just irritating. but the other, even with that behavior, and it feels exactly like you say, he is a cute child. an interesting child. adn i have fun with him. i would never say anything to the parent, and he is welcome in the home, whenever. it didnt fit with the mom. i didnt get why it was that way, with this mom. but... as the kids hang out and grow older together, as i told son, i am gonna keep an eye on a couple of his friends.....

thanks. that makes sense

[Vehl]

35. No probs :)

I'm glad I was able to be of some help :)

I code-switch culturally(even though its a linguistics term) when I assume the one I'm talking to might not understand/misunderstand my actions. Some people do not realize it and unintentionally end up offending others.Probably like this woman you referred to.

[Barack_America]

5. I've known two women in arranged marriages.

One marriage was very traditional; the father selected the groom, the bride never saw the groom until the wedding day, etc. She was of the opinion that she had no choice but to go through with the wedding (her parents cleverly married her within a week of starting college, where she might have gotten *other* ideas). She got pregnant almost immediately and had to completely change her career goals. I found it all to be very sad. She was a smart girl with ambition and her family deliberately tied her down with tradition to kill her dreams.

And I've also known a woman in a more modernized arranged marriage. The woman's parents pre-selected "appropriate" men; from the same caste, similar career goals, respectable family, etc. and arranged meetings with them. The choice of spouse was then up to her. One of the prospects was a man she got-on with, they announced an engagement and then they secretly visited each other behind their parents' backs to get to know each other better (including sexually) before the marriage. That marriage worked out well and both became successful in their careers and happy overall. In fact, I recall being a bit envious at the time and wishing that my parents would parade an array of eligible bachelors before me.

[pipi_k]

6. I don't personally know anyone, but...

I have heard that they can be just as happy as, or happier than, marriages made for "love".

One of the main reasons being that being "in love" is really a lot of bullshit and it blinds people and sets them up for unreasonable expectations and a lot of disappointment that people interpret as "falling out of love".

[enlightenment]

7. Depends on if it's voluntary or forced. I know one couple that

will marry in February. He is Indian and she is Pakistani; both are practicing Hindi; both are from upper caste society. The young man is the eldest son of one of the Rajput princes and believes with every fibre of his being that this is the proper thing for him to do. It's not strange to him - his parents (still living and still married) also had an arranged marriage, as did his sister. I've never spoken to his wife-to-be, so I can't answer to her attitude . . . but he says she's already 'telling me what to do!' (said with a grin) so I assume she's not too upset with the plan.

Fortunately, they have been formally engaged for almost 6 months now (they met at the betrothal ceremony) and they seem to quite like each other, so I'm hopeful they will muddle along as well as most married folk do.

I don't think it's a good idea when people are forced into it, but if they choose to go along with the program for their own reasons, then I can't disagree. People get married after knowing each other for weeks, claiming that they've met the 'love of their life'. People get married because they aren't getting along as an unmarried couple and think marriage will 'fix' the problems.

Lots of foolish reasons lead to people getting married - a voluntary arranged marriage isn't any different, to my mind.

A Forced arranged marriage is an entirely different kettle of fish. That should be banned (imo).

[TonyMontana]

10. Replace the word "arranged" with "forced"

It's usually impossible to say no to an arranged marriage, at least not without a lot of shame and guilt.

[enlightenment]

14. Citation, please?

I'd like to read the literature on that. Certainly several (granted 2nd hand and apocryphal) posts in this thread suggest that modern arranged marriages are not always forced and rejection of a potential spouse is not accompanied by shame and guilt.

My Indian friend has declined to marry for the last 6 years, because he didn't want to - and he and his bride had full choice after they met. I've never gotten any sense that he felt any shame or guilt for not entering the marriage mart when his parents wanted him to - nor did I see anything in the process that led to his engagement that suggested either party was forced. From what I can tell, she seems quite content with the match - she's certainly enjoying planning for the wedding.

That said, it's one incident (and also 2nd hand and apocryphal, since I can't get into his head) - so if you can share the studies that show that most arranged marriages are forced (either in truth or by shaming and guilt), I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

[Generic Other]

19. Not always forced by families

My example is a Japanese picture bride. Not forced. She wanted a husband and a chance to come to America. The only forced aspect might have been economic necessity. A matchmaker arranged the marriage, and it was an extremely happy one. They celebrated their 50th anniversary when I was a kid.

[Hannah Bell]

23. bull. depends on the arrangements.

[ieoeja]

25. You obviously have very strong feelings in favor of arranged marriages.

Or presumably your post would not have been so rude and nasty.

[Hannah Bell]

37. rude & nasty? where's that?

my post was five words. here they are again:

"bull. depends on the arrangements."

i see nothing "rude & nasty". i don't see any personal remarks at all.

you, on the other hand, made your one & only post on this thread specifically to call me "rude & nasty."

[Vehl]

24. Pure BS

Unless you are talking about some extreme cases, usually found only amongst those who are illiterate.

people seem to be stuck on the definition of arranged marriage as explained by some European colonists a couple of centuries ago...overly simplistic and downright incorrect in most cases.

[bluerum]

8. Several coworkers. They seem fine with it.

[TonyMontana]

9. Yes. And they generally "work out"

Because the woman has her role and the man has his role, and the idea of divorce is a very shameful thing for both families.

They're completely and totally immoral.

[AngryAmish]

11. Someone pitched the idea to my father-in-law about my wife

Back when she was in college. He laughed at them.

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. quite a few actually

Of course these were in every case people who came from cultures where that was the norm - in societies where duty to one's family exceeds almost all other values. They seemed to consider arranged marriage more practical and sensible than choosing someone based on highly transient emotions.

My impression is that it that though inconceivable to people raised in a highly individualistic society - it works about as well in terms of finding long term happiness as the approach of choosing someone. I would doubt that there is anymore or for that matter any less abuse in arranged marriages. I would doubt that there are any more or any less cases of people finding themselves trapped in a marriage with someone they cannot stand. But it is certainly not compatible with societies that place a high value on individualistic freedom.

[Javaman]

13. Yes, my grandparents on my dad's side...

my grandfather was a old evil bastard and my grandmother was a wonderful woman.

She certainly go the short end of that deal.

[laundry_queen]

15. sort of

My mom's co worker. She said she wouldn't have it any other way. She said she totally lucked out, her husband is super nice and caring, very generous and is not stuck in the 'old' ways at all (you know, the woman cooks, the husband works). They are both very modern, both work, he helps with the kids, etc. They both seem very happy.

I don't think they are a bad thing so long as the parties involved (the man and woman) agree to it and aren't shamed into doing it. I do know someone who was shamed into doing it and she was divorced not long after, her husband took off on her. However, the more I learn about why a lot of people get divorced (since I'm going through that myself right now), the more consensual arranged marriages make sense to me. When you are in love with someone, you are simply not able to see any deceptions or red flags. You are looking at your future partner through a 'frame' of lust and love. In an arranged marriage, it would be easier, I would think, to be able to be more objective about warning signs, plus your family would be actively looking for that as well and you would be more likely to listen to their advice if you're not head over heels in love.

That's just my take on it.

[NuttyFluffers]

16. yes, several. usually positive; developed a pragmatic look and grew to love.

the older marriages argue just as much as any other marriage that has lasted as long. the short term marriages go through the same struggles all young married couples go through. overall, not much of a difference, except for shattering the romantic fantasy i grew up with in this culture.

i wouldn't want to do it that way, but i have seen more success stories than horror stories. wish my childhood fairy tales showed the utter failure of such marriages, but the reality has been very different in my experience. overall, the results were no better, no worse.

the cultures i've seen them from: Saudi Arabia, India, Korea, Japan, several central Asian republics, etc.

[blondeatlast]

17. Yes, several. The ones where the wife works are happy, the others, varying degrees of not so much. n

[Vehl]

18. Yes, Both sides of my family

Both sides of my family had arranged marriages.

However, contrary to popular belief, Arranged marriages are not something in which the bride and the groom are told "you are gonna marry this person".

In the vast majority of cases(apart from some super-rural areas) the Bride and Groom are given a set of prospective candidates to choose from. Usually its about a dozen or two.

In the event that they do not like the prospective candidates, another set is provided.


In India/south Asia, prospective Grooms/Brides are usually chosen on the following descending order of importance given to a set of attributes(this order is not exact and usually varies)

1 Education (no college < College grad <Masters < Phd...you get the drift )
2 Character ( Non drinkers, non Smokers get preference over others, divorcees are usually not selected at all unless the bride/groom
is a divorcee as well)
3 Financial status/Prospective Financial status
4 Caste(religion is also included into this by default)
5 Family background (father, mother, grandparents...great grandparents..relatives etc etc)
6 Looks(Usually the Bride/groom can exclude anyone based on this)

I'm sure there might be some more attributes to consider, but the ones listed above pretty much decide the selection of the candidate.


The general rule of Thumb is that the Groom has to have better or equal Educational/financial resources than the bride. No father would think of marrying him daughter to a guy who is not on par with her. Lol in this regard the guys get the short end of the stick


Furthermore there are "love" marriages in India, and have been for as long as one can remember. However, usually what happens is that the Families of the couple get together and agree to have a marriage that seems like an arranged one. This happened for both my grandparents as well as my parents.


However, one might wonder if those were actually love marriages, how could the families pass them off as arranged marriages? that is because most of the love marriages actually follow the above criteria for arranged marriages anyways. Often couples who have love marriages fall in love with a fellow student in college. And chances are that the student is probably in the same major as himself/herself. In that case parents really cant complain if both the groom and Bride are both civil engineering students, now can they :D


Then comes the question of caste/family background, usually people from traditional(read non smoker/drinker) families fall for only those who are similar to them. It would be unthinkable for a girl from such a family to fall for a guy who loves alcohol.


thus even the so called "love marriages" also usually follow the criteria of selection used in the Arranged marriages. That was the case with my parents as well as my grandparents.



as for my generation, the rules are lax; as long as we don't do anything quite drastic.....like say...marrying one of those people who have metal inserts in their faces and such. :D
lol I do not have anything against such people, and as liberal i welcome them, but i draw the line at marrying them though :hide:


One of my cousin is married to a Greek girl, and another to a Chinese girl from HongKong. Those were love marriages and both the families agreed to have traditional weddings. lol talk of a big Greek/Indian wedding :P. And the funniest part is that they had two weddings. An Indian wedding, and an Greek one.

As for second generation American/Canadian born members of my relatives, most usually do have arranged marriages. But in this case the prospective candidates will also be those who were born here in the US/Canada. Thus there is not much of a culture/clash though. However there are quite a few exceptions to this as well, especially if the foreign(read south asia) born candidate is supposedly better qualified.lol

In today's time, prospective candidates also give their Facebook/yahoo Chat/Google talk Ids to the prospective Bride's family, thus the girl can chat with them online and get to know more about them.

[Lisa0825]

20. Yes, a former coworker. They seemed like a very content couple.

She said she grew to love him, and she was happy she never had to deal with all the difficulties of dating. She said she had trusted her parents to choose wisely for her, and they did. She is Indian American, her parents were immigrants, and she was born here.

[Hannah Bell]

21. yes, many of the japanese i met, including my in-laws.

& including young people. arranged marriage doesn't mean forced marriage.

attitudes ran the gamut.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. My Palestinian optometrist. She's very happy in her marriage.

Not so happy about not being allowed to return home to visit her family.

[elehhhhna]

28. a lovely woman, former coworker, from India --

she told me a lot about the process. Her husband was a delight and they had a truly loving marriage and two little girls. I thought it was a creepy idea until I understood how it worked, at least in her case.

[frustrated_lefty]

29. A co-worker, happily married.

They had me over for dinner a few times, met their kids. Seemed a wonderful family.

[aikoaiko]

31. I do. She is a Fundamentalist LDS and one of seven wives.

The multiple wives thing is an added twist, but she her marriage was basically arranged as well.

I asked her about her marriage and she that it was her culture to do so and her belief that it was God's will that it be as it is.

[leftynyc]

32. Kind of

My father's former secretary is an Orthodox Jew. Her family picked out the men but she had veto power. She was not expected to marry someone who she didn't want to marry. She's married over 20 years now, has 7 children and I've gotten to know her husband who is a lovely man (a Torah scribe).

[Xithras]

34. I've known four people. Still know three. All but one (the only woman) has liked it.

One was a Chinese guy I went to Cal with. He came from a very rural part of China, and his family demanded that he be married during his second year (something about there being a tradition or superstition that you had to be married by 20). He flew home, got married, and flew back. He's back in China today, so I have no idea how it worked out for him. He said that she was very pretty, and he seemed happy with the marriage at the time.

The wwo guys with arranged marriages that I still know are co-workers (one Malay, and one Pakistani). Both were married before they came to the U.S. They both like the system, to the point where they are already looking at potential matches for their own kids.

....

Now, here's where things get interesting. I occasionally work with a woman who was born and raised in India. She was accepted into an Indian technical school at 17, but her parents arranged a marriage with a shopkeeper twice her age only a year later. Her new husband, realizing that she was intelligent and that she could make him some money, allowed her to continue her education. She gained her masters in India, but in the late 90's was accepted into a PhD program at UCLA. Her husband gave her permission, and she "temporarily" moved to the U.S. It was the first time in her life that she'd ever lived on her own, and made her own decisions.

She never went back. After finishing her stint at UCLA, she moved to London. She's now back in the U.S. on an EB2 and is planning on becoming a permanent resident.

We discussed it over lunch one day, and she put it this way, "My husband was nice, and I liked the idea of being married when I was younger, but I didn't know any better. When you have never been free, you don't notice that your freedom is missing."

It did come at a cost. Her husband sued her family for fraud and won, which apparently cost them a lot of money. None of her family...parents, brothers, or sisters...have spoken with her in years. From their perspective, she shamed them all.

[Vehl]

36. Arranged marriages before the age of 21 always raise a red flag for me

Usually in those cases I wonder if the participants have any free will/much say in those decisions they are expected to accept.

In developing nations, a general rule of thumb is that the younger the age of the bride(and also the greater the age disparity between the partners) the more rural/backward the family is. I would loath to see anyone get married before they are at least around 25. Early marriage results in too many complications.