Roger Ebert's Journal: Hugh Hefner has been good for us

[Lisa0825]

Well, I learned a lot from this article...

As Hefner speaks, you realize that he believes in civil rights and liberties so deeply that it's instinctive. Many people shared his politics in the 1950s and early 1960s, but not many of them ran corporations that (a) depended on mass audiences, and (b) stood to lose business because of political beliefs. When it came to African-Americans in his clubs or on his TV show (or as his centerfolds), Hefner did the right thing without calculation, and paid a financial penalty. When the (endless) Playboy Philosophy argued for change, it is unlikely he gained a single reader. But he outlined and defended a progressive philosophy. And when magazine interviews were often revolting puffery about celebrities, he went long and in detail with people like Malcolm X, Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, Jean-Paul Sartre, Elisabeth Kubler-Ross and Marshall McLuhan. The fact is that sex made money for Hefner, and he used it to produce one of the best magazines in America.

He also spent money to free a man who faced a 50-year prison term for...fellatio. And helped overturn laws that made fellatio and cunnilingus a crime in all 50 states (for which many of us must be grateful). He fought against laws punishing homosexuality and interracial marriage. He supported Lenny Bruce's fight against an obscenity arrest in Chicago. He fought obscenity prosecutions brought by such as Charles Keating, founder of the Citizens for Decent Literature. He won. Berman's doc cannot resist juxtaposing shots of Keating lecturing on morality and Keating in handcuffs being led to prison for bank fraud. Hefner's Playboy Foundation fought for civil liberties in general. The cost for these activities came out of his profits, and that didn't give him a moment's pause.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/10/entertainment_for_men.html

[Hello_Kitty]

1. Did wonders for my body image. Not. eom

[Lisa0825]

2. I think the fashion industry and Hollywood are equally if not more to blame for that....

not to mention Mattel.

All I knew about Playboy was nekkid pictures and articles men claimed to read. LOL! I just found it interesting to read more about what he fought for. I might not have read the article at all if it hadn't been written by Roger Ebert. But he always gives me something to think about, this article included.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. Are the fashion industry and Hollywood being held up as civil rights icons in your OP? eom

[mitchum]

20. I think you meant Helen Gurley Brown, didn't you?

Considering thst she is the one who published the magazine intended for a female audience...

[Hello_Kitty]

27. Of course. It's a woman's fault. Silly me.

:eyes:

[mitchum]

35. Well, it is a woman's fault if she derives her self image from what is being peddled to men

Doesn't say a whole lot for her judgment and autonomy, does it?
Answer carefully...

[Hello_Kitty]

41. Glad to see you're admitting that what's peddled to men is bullshit.

And Hugh Hefner was a major purveyor of it. :hi:

[mitchum]

69. He ideed peddled bullshit to men,,,it was a male version of a women's service magazine aimed at...

expoiting men with consumers goods like atumobiles, the wet bar, the right casual and formal drag, the right books to have on diplay on your moderninist coffeetable,the right records playing on your big lawyer stereo,the right naked girl for the decor in one's bachelor pad.

He was jusr a just sandy adman with middling taste,,,and a little social conscious

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. Unless you're reading men's magazines, then yes.

Arguably Playboy put forward a poor ideal of appropriate male behavior to their customers, much the way Cosmopolitan does for theirs.

[Hello_Kitty]

82. On that, we can agree.

The commercially correct model of behavior has never been one that led to happiness for anyone.

[apocalypsehow]

83. If you have a problem with your "body image," that is hardly the owner of some magazine you have

never once been forced to purchase, gaze at, or otherwise read's problem, now is it? :shrug:

I'd look elsewhere, were I you and serious about identifying that problem. :thumbsup:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

94. +1

[treestar]

146. In general I would think it is the standards it set for us all

It gets harder and harder for us poor females to pass as attractive enough!

[66 dmhlt]

125. Filed under "Revenge Is a Dish Best Served Cold"

It's by the feminist British artist, Margaret Harrison, from the 1970s. Her original was NOT censored as I have done here - so if you want to see it uncensored:
http://www.artinamericamagazine.com/reviews/margaret-harrison/

[Warren DeMontague]

139. Hef would probably think that picture is funny. Hell, he'd probably buy it.

I don't get the feeling the dude takes himself too seriously.

[Canuckistanian]

3. I seem to remember some kerfuffle about black Playboy Bunnies

Hef hired them and supported them, I believe. Some clients objected to their presence at the various Playboy "Key Clubs".

Hef told the clients they could get stuffed.

Am I wrong?

[Lisa0825]

5. I do not know, but judging by the other instances mentioned in the article,

it sounds plausible.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lisa0825]

7. How do you REALLY feel?

LOL

Seriously, I don't have strong feelings one way or another about him, but found Roger Ebert's article interesting, and I learned some things I hadn't known about some positive things he had done. I assume you think he did more harm than good, and that is a valid opinion. I can see both sides of the discussion.

[femrap]

24. Thank you so

much for your youthful sarcasm...I haven't felt that since....oh, gee yesterday by some twenty-something dude at a female Dem candidate's HQ who asked me about the ERA and didn't know it wasn't a Real Estate Company.

So glad you enjoy seeing you colored sisters' genitalia as equal to yours. Yeah....women have achieved FREEDOM!

What is it with this response to a truly HONEST answer to a question/opinion? I get 'Oh, wow, how do you really feel?' It sounds so very junior high. Seriously. I've encountered this IRL during this election cycle when I've been trying to come up with ideas to get people to the polls to vote dem. And now I experience it here about Hefner.

During the '70's we got all the Playboy Clubs shut down. Women had a period of time where they were actually treated like humans. Of course the dudes had a gun put to their heads. But then along came Raygun and CLARENCE THOMAS (Head of EEOC) and BOOM, women were back in the gutter again. And now the women go into the gutter willingly.

Give me those stilettos. Let me slap on the makeup. Give me the tight clothes. And please let me dress my 5 year-old in sexy, cute dresses. Hell, let's put her in bras and bikinis at the age of 6....all available at your local Walmart.

Gee, tell me what you really think about that.

ETA: No decent cat would acknowledge that they are associated with whatsoever....in fact, you just might find yourself with a few deep scratches and bites. Cats pride themselves on independence, freedom, and respect. Even the female ones.

And I'm not planting anymore 'head seeds' tonight....(ie something that might make you think that your view could be enlightened and that women are more than just sexual objects, broodmares, housekeepers, and people who have to work 2 or 3 jobs so to keep food on the table for the 2 to 3 kids she is trying to care for while the daddy goes on his merry way impregnating more women that he has absolutely no intention of caring for....just like Hef.)

I'm so done with Willful Ignorants on DU. Self-hating DUers. Pathetic. Do you think this attitude is going to get you a rich husband or something...?

[Lisa0825]

28. Gee, your 50 puking smileys were so much more mature than my response. Forgive me.

:eyes:

[femrap]

57. My point.....this is sickening....

I figured you needed 'pictures.'

[Lisa0825]

32. And FWIW, I'm no 20-something..... double that...

and I am long-divorced, supporting myself, and have a brood of cats that I deeply respect for their independence.

[femrap]

58. Your cats....as I said....

are not happy with you. They have self-respect and independence....and you are soon to be on my Ignore List along with a few on this thread.

You need to reflect and think about what women are in this culture....

[AspenRose]

99. And you need to learn how to get your point across without being hostile.

Good Lord.

I pretty much AGREE with a LOT of what you said, but your delivery was unnecessarily hostile, offensive and over-the-top. I'm BEGGING you put me on ignore.

[JVS]

100. How did this get to the point of one person telling another that their cats don't like them?

:shrug:

[Lisa0825]

101. LMAO! It was too absurd for me to respond!

:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

144. I think I've found the perfect comeback line for 2011.

"Your cats are not happy with you"

[Lisa0825]

147. LOL! I hope someday in some silly flame war thread, I'll see that used....

and laugh at the others who will be going WTF??? :wtf:

[BuelahWitch]

148. Lisa0825 I heard it throught the grapevine that your cats love you very much

And will love you even MORE if you bring home Whiska Lickins aka "Kitty Crack"! :hi: Kitty Crack always makes it all better, even pictures of nekkid ladies!

[Lisa0825]

150. LOL! I will try that! Their current kitty crack is Fancy Feast Gold...

plus they get tuna every Sunday. And I always share my own if it is something they like. They will sit around me in a semi-circle waiting for me to toss a bit to each of them. LOL

[Warren DeMontague]

151. You only think they like you. They're plotting your overthrow.

Plotting, plotting, plotting.

[AspenRose]

149. Someone with a PEACE SIGN avatar, no less.

(What's up with that?)

[Warren DeMontague]

152. Let's just put it this way...

This is more like it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

107. Wow.

Seek help.

Really.

[EstimatedProphet]

128. Some people are so self-obsessed that help isn't a possibility.

[EOTE]

114. You know as much about other people's cats as you do about civil discourse.

Which is to say, nothing. You might want to work on putting together a cogent argument without any of the frothing and then maybe you can start talking about others. You're more than welcome to put me on ignore.

[Bluenorthwest]

119. You are mentioning gun violence and using the language of

control. You are the macho in this thread. Your posts are the heterocentric views here, sexist and limiting toward others. Telling someone their pets don't like them? Bitter, controling, violent words you type. You mention guns to heads. You invoke violence and hurl insults. That is what it is.

[Warren DeMontague]

136. Impressive that you know this. Are they indigo cats?

:shrug:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

145. But if the colored sister gets jumped for her purse and beaten in a parking lot.....

....well, let's blame it on society and economics, not the three thugs who did it.

You're a piece of work.

[Warren DeMontague]

154. Or if some guy shoots up the Discovery Channel, it's b/c of the repeal of the fairness doctrine.

Obviously, reasonable anti-breeder sentiments aren't given enough airtime, what is a sensible sociopath to do?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4525110&mesg_id=4526499

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

155. Wow. Just...wow.....(n/m)

[NYCGirl]

9. You have a problem with penises? I think they're quite beautiful. NT

[femrap]

45. Yeah...let's have some equality.....

I said I want to see all colors of penises and in all colors. Bring on equality....on TV, in magazines, and in newspapers.....and especially at the strip clubs and Play'girl' clubs.

[NYCGirl]

54. So why the puking smilies? NT

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EOTE]

115. Ahh, I see. Your problem is that there are no strip clubs for women.

You know, the ones with the women drooling and screaming at men to take off more of their clubs. Those clubs which surely don't exist. And those magazines showing mens' penises which also surely don't exist. It's almost as if the naked male form doesn't exist today. Godspeed on your crusade.

[wtmusic]

10. You seem to resent the fact that he made a lot of money.

I get that you feel he exploits women. Fair enough, but that's not all he does.

[Lisa0825]

11. And that was exactly why I posted this....

all I knew of him was that he made a living off of naked women. I did not know about the good things he has done, and I think it is fair to look at all sides, even if one condemns him for his main claim to fame.

[Cid_B]

74. NOT NAKED!!!!

Sweet lord baby Jesus save me now.... I'm sure they were all photographed at gun point as well.

[femrap]

48. besides breathing.....?????? what else??????? nt

[Canuckistanian]

31. If you're part of that "culture"

Then yes, your culture deserves everything it gets.

[femrap]

53. Listen, I don't control this

pathetic culture. I wish I did. That 'responsibility' has been given to the MSM....of Murdoch, Aisles, Sommers, and all the other rich white boyz. If you think they are going to give women any equality, well, I have a bridge for you. Come on....think. This is a progressive website.....think! Damn it.

[PufPuf23]

73. Playboy has never displayed genitalia unless Playboy

has gone Penthouse in the last 15 years. Playboy was slow to show pubic hair.

Playboy was pro-consumption but was also a thoughtful literary magazine with timely interviews, journalism, and literature, consistently liberal.

Probably you are correct that Mr. Hefner has created his own personal loveless, lonely, and loss-of-privacy hell as a by-product.

I do not know now but his daughter was CEO for many years. Wrong steps were made in hind sight, but Playboy advanced civil rights and expanded acceptance of diversity and sexual behavior and egalitarianism.

I do not deny that the Playmate and centerfold objectified woman to the point they were as attractive as Barbie.

I have never responded to a gender thread before. Be gentle. Peace.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

95. No, WTF is wrong with YOU.

Canuckistan asked a civilized question in a civilized manner, and you responded with an smilie-tourette hissy fit of a personal attack.

[AspenRose]

102. +1

[JVS]

103. Don't make her claim that your cats hate you!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

104. Wha? Is this a reference to some previous flamewar?

If so, please clarify. This should be good.

[Lisa0825]

105. LOL! It's a response to me upthread... too bizarre! nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

108. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

:wow:

[Warren DeMontague]

130. Like Deja Vu All Over Again, isn't it?

[BootinUp]

137. you might be on to something. Seems fiery to me. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

138. Sort of like E Pluribus Unum

in reverse. ;-)

[Warren DeMontague]

153. #152 contains your answer, by the way. nt

[JVS]

109. It happens upthread. It's weird and hard to understand, but funny.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. "weird and hard to understand" is just the beginning.

Believe me. If you start down that particular rabbit hole, be sure to leave a trail of breadcrumbs.

[wtmusic]

4. When a local scenic overlook was going to be developed with condos

Hef bought it for $7M, then donated it to Los Angeles Parks & Recreation. No media or publicity.

:applause:

[femrap]

8. And gee, if a woman could be paid fairly

for displaying her genitalia, I bet she would have bought the same f*cking 'local scenic overlook' and stopped the condos as well.

But you see, women just don't seem to make the same bucks as their pimps do...why is that?

More willful ignorance on a supposed 'progressive' website. Black males have gained equality...their sisters Black and White, certainly not yet.

[wtmusic]

12. A woman should be paid $7M for displaying her genitalia?

I don't get your point.

[mitchum]

23. Apparently, someone overvalues the market price for a glimpse of their genitalia...

seems that way

[femrap]

55. What do you think

your wife, mother, daughter's genitalia is worth?

[wtmusic]

65. That would be up to them to decide.

Do you do the deciding for others? How curious.

[U4ikLefty]

84. 1000 words nt

[NYCGirl]

14. Actually, the women in adult films make considerably more than their male

counterparts.

And you think someone like Helen Gurley Brown didn't make lots of money as a publisher?

[femrap]

43. And the women

pron put up with DP...da boyz don't have that. Very serious medical problems result. But whatever....you kids seem to be having so much fun....gee, where am I? I certainly am not at a 'progressive' website.

You need to do research this topic....oh, I'm sorry, that would require work and investigation. And that would detract you from making fun of Helen who you think made the money that Hef did....oh, you foolish little thing.

Pretty soon, the only jobs available for young women in this country will be prostitution.....just like the old USSR after The Wall came down. Oh, gee, I forgot....all those Eastern European women sold into sex slavery.....that's the fastest growing job in the world....what fun!!!! Maybe Hef will give you a recommendation???? What a grand life....just like "Pretty Woman."

[LoZoccolo]

51. Historically, men have been the ones expected to take the jobs which could

easily kill them.

[femrap]

60. Like prostitution isn't the most

dangerous job on the face of the planet......I'd much rather be a police officer....they have guns allowed by law.

[LoZoccolo]

77. Like police officers, firefighters, soldiers, sailors,

and taxi drivers, which is the actual most dangerous job. And historically these jobs have been encouraged by society rather than discouraged like prostitution. Prostitutes have historically been stigmatized for their line of work, while men have been stigmatized for not absorbing possibly deadly risk on behalf of women and children.

[NYCGirl]

63. Who's making fun of Helen Gurley Brown? She did make lots of money.

You do seem to have a bit of a problem where human sexuality is concerned. And I'm being kind.

[cemaphonic]

71. "Pretty soon, the only jobs available for young women in this country will be prostitution"

I guess all of the women in my circle of friends that are architects, lawyers, doctors, magazine editors, and so on must be figments of my imagination.

Look at college and grad & professional school enrollment. In another generation women are going to be running the economy.

[EOTE]

117. They're all secretly prostitutes.

And all of their cats hate them. That you don't know this already means you're not really a progressive.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. "Pretty woman"?

More like "Too Wong Foo"

I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you could find gay male porn with all kinds of multiple penetrations. (You're not the one who argues with some regularity that anal sex is "unnatural and dangerous", are you? There's a lot of people, men and women, who would beg to differ on that)

Or even porn with men pretending to be women.

Hey! Imagine that!

You know, whatever floats your boat.


Or boats.

[progressoid]

64. "Black males have gained equality"

Huh?

[CBR]

92. Black males have not gained equality -- OPEN your eyes. nt

[GReedDiamond]

59. In related old news...

...Hefner saved the iconic HOLLYWOOD sign in the late 70s, when it was literally rotting away.

I recently heard, I think, of another big grant from Hefner/Playboy for more preservation work on the sign.

[wtmusic]

67. +1 I had forgotten about that nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

113. I wish the poster above hadn't brought that up.

From the tone of some posters here, we'll have anti-porn crusaders flocking to Hollywood to blow up the sign.

[Toucano]

13. "...costs...came out of his profits..." Which came from...exploitation of women?

Okay so it's 5 points for defending civil liberties and minus 5 points on the exploitation.

5 points for defending progressive philosophy...minus 4 points for making society just a little bit more crass.

He finishes with 1 point.

Oops. Minus one point for that stupid television show where he kissed dignity goodbye.

Conclusion: He's responsible for some good things and some bad things. Aren't we all?

[Lisa0825]

15. Yes, aren't we all?

Good summary!

[wtmusic]

16. It would be interesting to see how many PB bunnies feel they were exploited. nt

[Confusious]

90. Elvira was a bunny

She was talking about it on Stephanie Miller. Sounded like she enjoyed her time there.

[leftstreet]

17. 'Sex' didn't make money for Hefner. Naked women did

Just a pet peeve of mine

[wtmusic]

19. I noticed that too

but you put it in writing. :thumbsup:

[elleng]

18. He/they contributed to progressive/liberal causes,

like Women's Legal Caucus at my law school, in the '70s, but of course we first debated whether we should accept such!!!

[proteus_lives]

21. But..But. He took pictures of naked women! He's evil!

:rofl:

[mitchum]

25. And every picture always contained a shadow of the gun pointing at that women...

as they were forced to pose.
Oops, wait a minute...

[Lisa0825]

26. I can understand those who hold that against him....

I just feel there is enough blame to share when it comes to exploitation of women. I don't think Playboy even owns the majority of the blame. I think Madison Avenue, Hollywood, and the fashion industry are even worse for making women into props, than Playboy is for publishing nudity.

And at least Playboy nudes actually had standards, unlike the skeevier publications.

So while I do understand the hostility some feel toward Playboy, I still look at the bigger picture, and I think these contributions he made to progressive causes do count for something.

[proteus_lives]

30. I agree.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lisa0825]

38. And I consider an insult from you as a compliment, so thank you. nt

[proteus_lives]

42. Some DUers didn't get the memo.

You can disagree without being rude.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. Moon? Moon? I heard we bombed the moon,

It was those brutes at NASA. The Indigo Children were quite upset.

[Dawson Leery]

39. The objectification of women is nothing new.

To put the blame ONLY on Hefner is utter nonsense.

[femrap]

44. He's a damn good start. nt

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[girl gone mad]

46. I think those standards have a lot to do with the hostility women feel toward him.

The bunnies were often ridiculously positioned, artificially inflated, airbrushed to within an inch of being non-human.

I saw a study a few years ago that showed men now prefer the shape of fake boobs to real boobs. Playboy bears some responsible for pushing the idea that this body form represents the pinnacle of sexual desirability into the mainstream.

[Lisa0825]

56. Good point. nt

[Hello_Kitty]

34. He portrayed women as objects, while treating men as people.

He put the measurements of women up by their photos as a template we needed to follow, while reassuring men that they were sexually viable and worthwhile no matter how they looked.

[Lisa0825]

37. Valid points....

As I have expressed, I have mixed feelings about him. I don't think he's the worst of the lot, but that's not saying much. But reading about some positive things that he has done did make me think. I don't think his good contributions should be completely discounted. Like most people, he's a mixed bag.

[proteus_lives]

40. Then why do women pose for them?

Serious question.

[Hello_Kitty]

49. Probably because they were flattered and for the money.

Women are only human. We make rational choices based on our circumstances same as you do.

[proteus_lives]

52. Wow, an honest response.

[JVS]

123. beats working for shit wages

[wtmusic]

70. There's some projection going on here.

He portrayed women as objects, or you saw his portrayals as objects?

He put the measurements of women up by their photos as a template you needed to follow, or you considered them a template you needed to follow?

He treated men as people - by what, taking their money?

If you ever actually looked inside a Playboy magazine, you would know that there's not an ounce of "reassurance" going on. They're full of ads for hair replacement, diets, penile enlargement, virility aids, etc. etc. Men buy Playboy for a simple, harmless fantasy, that's all. There's no subjugation, no domination, no implication that because the women are naked that's *all* they are.

Projection.

[Hello_Kitty]

81. Wow. For a "simple, harmless fantasy"

Sure seems to be a lot of harm going on there. But none of it tells you you're ugly and unfuckable.

[wtmusic]

91. When anyone puts their self-image at the mercy of popular culture

they're asking for it. Goes for men, too. :shrug:

[Gaedel]

112. Playboy warped me for life

It was a long time before I realized that beautiful women didn't have a staple in their navel.

I did like the Jean Shepherd articles though. He is still my favorite.

[mitchum]

93. He treated men as marks who could be manipulated into post-war consumerism

Once an adman, always an adman

[cemaphonic]

141. Yep, this is getting lost in all the 2nd wave vs 3rd wave and porn vs. antiporn flamewars

Old Hef was really selling a whole lifestyle, albeit one that was pretty much just as much a whitewashed and airbrushed as his models.

I always believed people who said that they read Playboy for the articles. Because if they weren't, they'd probably look for other pr0n than Playboy.

[AndrewP]

111. LOL. Yes, pure evil!!!!! n/t

[sandnsea]

22. Interesting, thanks

I think Hugh Hefner was courageous and made as big an impact on this country as anybody. I don't want to be a sex worker, but I imagine there are lots of people who are grateful somebody does.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DerekG]

47. Hefner had also been good for my adolescence

n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

50. He was bad for mine. And my young adulthood.

Guess it was an even trade. :shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

142. I guess if a person is dead set on being miserable in order to make a point, they will be. -nt

[Lisa0825]

61. Question to those responders who feel very negatively about his exploitation of women....

How do you feel about women who use their sexuality for profit? Such as certain musicians or other entertainers who emphasize their bodies by either posing for such publications or who in general express their sexuality on stage (Madonna, for example, has been doing this for decades, but seems to be a feminist icon by many people I know)?

[femrap]

68. My final response to this

thread.......I got very good news today. A man, who was my adviser in college during my Masters in Industrial Engineering died on 2.28.10. I just got the Annual Alumni Newsletter.

He, as a married man (and I had met his wife and children) put the moves on me....I immediately changed Advisors but I did not say why. I simply said that my research for my thesis didn't coincide with his and I got a new Advisor.

A year after I graduated, I got a job in which I needed a Security Clearance. The FBI delved into my past and talked with this pervert. He said, "She would sell secrets to the Soviets without batting of an eye." He went to the level of keeping me without an INCOME. I ended up being interviewed by the FBI and of course, I wasn't going to help anyone with anything about any secrets.

But this is the depth of what a Phd male will go to get what he wants and if he doesn't to avenge what the woman didn't give him. He would deny her a livelihood. Do you get that at all?

This is Hef....getting what he wants from woman who have no other recourse. Maybe all they have is beauty. And maybe what they have is the only thing our culture values.

Because I know damn well that our culture does NOT value female intelligence....hell it's a curse. It will probably get me shot someday...I live in a 'concealed weapon state.' Of course....that gives me the right as well.

This is Patriarchy. Thankfully I was financially capable (given grants and scholarships) not to have to consider his advances.

Did I sue him? No. Did I try to get him fired? No. But I tell you when I saw his little picture in my Alumni Newsletter and saw that he had died, I hoped he spent some time in hell. I did a little 'Happy Dance.'

So do you dudes go through any of this? Do you even ever think about any of this....your wives, daughters, whatever?

[proteus_lives]

75. So, one man is an asshole = all man are assholes.

How....enlightened.

[RadicalTexan]

98. You didn't respond to her question.

Do you as a man experience this or anything like this, by virtue of being a man?

Are powerful women precluding your ability to have a roof over your head because you won't sleep with them or giggle at their unwanted advances?

Have you ever been harassed by groups of howling women while walking down the street? Do you fear walking down the street at all? Do you hear steps behind you and worry that you will be assaulted or raped? Have you ever been raped within your romantic relationships? Have you ever been raped at all?

Your response is akin to telling righteously angry black people that they are being 'unfair' when they are suspicious of white people or when they rejoice in the death of someone who denied them a livelihood on the basis of race. They are right to be suspicious of white people. It's the white people who need to change. Likewise, only men can stop rape. The onus is on YOU.

Thanks for exhibiting your male privilege so clearly.

[proteus_lives]

124. And you didn't respond to my comment.

Her story has nothing to do with Hefner.

It's her "me being hateful is ok because of..." story.

[EOTE]

126. As a man, I have been.

I was hounded by a powerful woman attorney for over a year for a crime she was very much aware I didn't commit. I provided her huge amounts of proof and she still continued to threaten me. Time after time she would tell me how all this airtight evidence I had most likely would not be admitted to trial It wasn't until my case was dismissed on constitutional grounds that I got any relief. After that, I had to fight her for another half year trying to get back the "evidence" from the trial that she was illegally keeping from me. So yes, many men are harmed by powerful women. Some women will make a man's life a living hell simply because they are men. You may not believe it happens, but it sure as hell does.

[ClassWarrior]

76. Wow, such a fine example you set too. "I hoped he spent some time in hell."

"Did I sue him? No. Did I try to get him fired?" Did I take the recourse that any reasonable, responsible human being would take in a situation like this? No. I simply took a bizarre, macabre pleasure in another human being's death.

So much for the credibility of your argument.

NGU.

[wtmusic]

78. I hope for your own sake

you can find the strength to not use pinups in a softporn magazine as a basis for your own self-worth. And you'll certainly never find peace from dancing on his grave.

This guy fucked you over. Well, guess what? He probably fucked his male colleagues over too, advanced his own career at the expense of theirs. It's not a gender conspiracy. And unless all of your grants and scholarships were given to you by women, it seems that female intelligence does hold some value in our culture.

[Warren DeMontague]

89. Look what happened to Don Draper when he got checked for a security clearance.

His artificially contrived identity almost collapsed, and he completely freaked out.

I'd wager it's exhausting for someone to spend all that time pretending to be something they aren't.

[Book Lover]

132. I cannot believe you are seriously holding up a fictional plot contrivance

as an example a living, real human being should contemplate.

[Warren DeMontague]

134. Honestly? I think there are MORE THAN enough fictional plot contrivances in this thread

already.

Trust me.

And that's all I'm going to say about that.

[JVS]

116. Is it possible that his belief that you were a security risk is unrelated to his sexual advances?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

135. Kudos for the FBI for doing their jobs well. -nt

[RadicalTexan]

96. I think they're sellouts

But I don't blame them, I blame the fact that that is their best option for surviving and/or thriving. Or that, because of our culture, they view it as their best option.

In other words, I blame the patriarchy.

Also, fuck Hugh Hefner. He's no hero.

[Dawson Leery]

140. Hefner is a businessman.

I always saw Hefner's "lifestyle" as part of the show he put on for the business.

[Lisa0825]

72. To those who discussed in a sane manner, thank you for an interesting exchange.

To those who were disrespectful, rude, and broke several DU rules (such as personal attacks, accusing people of being Freepers, etc), up yours.

Good night! :pals:

[wtmusic]

79. Backatcha LIsa. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

97. +Graham's Number Raised To Itself Graham's Number Times

[charlie]

80. Keith Richards wrote a little about him in his new book

In Chicago, there was an acute shortage of hotel rooms, so Hugh Hefner thought it would be a laugh to invite some of us to stay in the Playboy Mansion. I think he regretted it. Hugh Hefner, what a nut. We’ve worked the lowest pimps to the highest, the highest being Hefner. He threw the place open for the Stones, and we were there for over a week. And it’s all plunges in the sauna, and the Bunnies, and basically it’s a whorehouse, which I really don’t like. The memory, however, is very, very hazy. I know we did have some fun there. I know we ripped it up. Hefner had been shot at just before our visit, and the place resembled the state house of some Caribbean dictatorship, with heavily armed security everywhere.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/photos/53622/220533/5

Of course, Keith being Keith, he went on to set fire to the mansion while doping it up in one of the bathrooms :D

[seabeyond]

121. the best pimp around running a whorehouse. lets all cheer hefner.

ya, right, show this man the respect he earned :sarcasm:

trash, take it out or he will stink up the place

love how we glorify this piece of shit

[BootinUp]

85. I'm checking out the William F Buckley interviews of Hef

the opening introduction by Buckley is really something.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

106. Question to the angry people.

By writing that article, did Roger Ebert do something reprehensible? Is it some sort of moral failing for him?

[PVnRT]

110. Yes

By failing to agree with them, he has demonstrated that he is just as evil as the most scumbag L.A. porn pusher.

[Book Lover]

133. No

Why do you ask?

[seabeyond]

118. he is one of the gutter people, in all his glory. nt

[JVS]

122. In the "Encyclopedia of Bad Taste" there is an entry on the late Bob Guccione.

One of the things discussed in the article is that while both Guccione and Hefner were engaged in publications that capitalized on the the changing of social norms concerning sexuality that would later become (with the addition of the pill) the "Sexual Revolution", that Hefner was extremely interested in forming a discourse in which the new open sexuality emerging would be in good taste, part of the good life. Guccione, in contrast, was depicted as wanting to cash in on being more explicit and not giving a shit about how unseemly it would be.

[Lilith Velkor]

129. At least Penthouse didn't airbrush them to the point they all looked alike.

The glistening was a nice touch too.

That being said, I prefer Hustler, because Flynt made Guccione look like Hefner in comparison.

[MilesColtrane]

127. God damn you, Hefner, for exploiting Kim Kardashian.

She only had about $10 million in inheritance and obviously felt that she couldn't get by without a check for posing in your filthy rag.

Trolling for down and out women in soup kitchens to pimp out wasn't enough for you, was it?

[DailyGrind51]

143. The Playboy Foundation generously supported many not-for-profits, even printing

annual reports for organizations who could not, otherwise, afford to have them printed.