Transcript of Q and A with the President about DADT and Same-sex marriage

[ruggerson]

Posted by Joe Sudbay

As John reported, I attended a question-and-answer session at the White House with President Obama today. There were five progressive bloggers, including Barbara Morrill from DailyKos, Duncan Black a.k.a. Atrios, Oliver Willis and John Amato from Crooks and Liars.

As you know, the President has not answered any questions from anyone in the LGBT media or blogosphere. And, our community has a lot of questions for the President. So, I decided to focus my questions on gay issues of Don't Ask, Don't Tell and same-sex marriage.

Here are the questions I asked. (I'm the "Q"):

Q I was glad to hear that you and your staff appreciate constructive feedback.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, that’s something we enjoy. (Laughter.)

Q We’ve been more than willing to offer that. We’ve certainly been more than willing to offer that from AMERICAblog, particularly on issues related to the LGBT community, which, you know, there is a certain amount of disillusionment and disappointment in our community right now.

And one of the things I’d like to ask you -- and I think it’s a simple yes or no question too -- is do you think that “don’t ask, don’t tell” is unconstitutional?

THE PRESIDENT: It’s not a simple yes or no question, because I’m not sitting on the Supreme Court. And I’ve got to be careful, as President of the United States, to make sure that when I’m making pronouncements about laws that Congress passed I don’t do so just off the top of my head.

ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT

[ruggerson]

1. My favorite line re marriage equality:

THE PRESIDENT: The one thing I will say today is I think it’s pretty clear where the trendlines are going.

Q The arc of history.

THE PRESIDENT: The arc of history.

[WillParkinson]

2. Pity he can't be part of the 'arc of history'...

What with him living in the past where separate but equal is still OK.

[FreeState]

3. So he thinks DADT is unconstitutional but can't say so?

Or am I reading this wrong?!?:


THE PRESIDENT: It’s not a simple yes or no question, because I’m not sitting on the Supreme Court. And I’ve got to be careful, as President of the United States, to make sure that when I’m making pronouncements about laws that Congress passed I don’t do so just off the top of my head.

I think that -- but here’s what I can say. I think “don’t ask, don’t tell” is wrong. I think it doesn’t serve our national security, which is why I want it overturned. I think that the best way to overturn it is for Congress to act. In theory, we should be able to get 60 votes out of the Senate. The House has already passed it. And I’ve gotten the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to say that they think this policy needs to be overturned -- something that’s unprecedented.

[Radical Activist]

6. And he essentially said it's only a matter of time before he supports same-sex marriage.

The talk about changing attitudes, it being something he thinks about often, but that he isn't going to make headlines today. I wonder when he'll be ready to make that headline.

[WillParkinson]

7. After he leaves office, of course...

When it's no longer going to cost him anything to say it.

[FreeState]

9. That's why we desperately need our allies to pressure him - we can't do it alone

those who make excuses for bigoted views do more damage than those that express such views IMO.

[readmoreoften]

18. +1

[Radical Activist]

12. Maybe, but I hope he won't repeat Bill Clinton's mistake

of waiting until he's out of office.

[Smashcut]

26. Exactly

When it can make no positive difference whatsoever, he'll "evolve" on the issue. (See also: Bill Clinton)

[FreeState]

8. Soon I hope - if not I fear he's going to lose a portion of his base

and possibly damage the party, which in turn will damage the quest for equal rights.

[ThomCat]

31. If that's true, that's a really pathetic position for a president to take

If he's waiting for a certain amount of public approval before he'll be willing to support equality for some people then,

1. He's essentially saying that he won't form his own opinions until polls tell him it's okay to do so.

2. He's putting CIVIL RIGHTS for a group of people on hold until poll numbers tell him politically it's okay or relatively risk free.

That's just incredibly cowardly and timid. :(

[jberryhill]

28. That's correct - he is conscious of his role as a constitutional actor

Obama's problem is that he is a lawyer and a constitutional scholar.

We may have a House, very soon, with a twitchy impeachment finger. One of the things they are going to be looking for is a failure to perform his duty to faithfully uphold the laws of the United States.

It is one thing for the President to criticize a decision of the Supreme Court. It is another thing for a President to declare an existing law to be unconstitutional, and I can understand his reluctance to do so.

Put simply - you can be a player on the field, or you can be a referee, but you can't be both.

There is a long political game here. We didn't have a "Moral Majority" style religious right until they were handed Roe v Wade as a battle cry, while legislative movement was going in the correct direction. If DADT can be undone legislatively, by what is considered the "democratic" or "representative" branch, then the right is not handed another gift that let's them whine about "activist judges" to stir up their base.

[The Philosopher]

4. I like the logic used

That he's on the side of good for opposing taking away a person's right to marry their love; and because of that he's the hugest friend of the LGBT community.

But then he goes on to state he doesn't believe they should get married, that he's personally opposed to gay marriage. How is that supposed to look? "I don't like those Republicans telling you what's what, but I'm fine doing it myself!" Saying you support anti-gay marriage beliefs is the same as being a proponent of anti-gay marriage propositions, because you're helping the culture of bigotry exist, find excuses, and continue on.

What is a LGBT child to think when he reads you still appose gay marriage? You're supposed to protect him and his rights, you're supposed to be helping create a better environment for that child, a safer environment. But then you say, "No, you can't be like me and my family, you can't be like us. But enjoy those Federal appointments I made, those are awesome, right?"

[Radical Activist]

5. Wow. Some strong statements there.

He makes several points I've posted at DU before, including the need to focus on Senate Republicans rather than Obama, who's already an ally. I've wondered before on this board whether the DADT vote might have gone differently if there had been more focus on pressuring the Senate than on stoking discontent with Obama.


THE PRESIDENT: I was very deliberate in working with the Pentagon so that I’ve got the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs being very clear about the need to end this policy. That is part of a strategy that I have been pursuing since I came into office. And my hope is that will culminate in getting this thing overturned before the end of the year.

Now, as usual, I need 60 votes. So I think that, Joe, the folks that you need to be having a really good conversation with -- and I had that conversation with them directly yesterday, but you may have more influence than I do -- is making sure that all those Log Cabin Republicans who helped to finance this lawsuit and who feel about this issue so passionately are working the handful of Republicans that we need to get this thing done.

Q Yes, I don’t have that relationship with them. (Laughter.)

THE PRESIDENT: But, I mean, it’s just -- I don’t understand the logic of it.

Q Nor do I.

THE PRESIDENT: You’re financing a very successful, very effective legal strategy, and yet the only really thing you need to do is make sure that we get two to five Republican votes in the Senate.

And I said directly to the Log Cabin Republican who was here yesterday, I said, that can’t be that hard. Get me those votes.

Because what I do anticipate is that John McCain and maybe some others will filibuster this issue, and we’re going to have to have a cloture vote. If we can get through that cloture vote, this is done.

[ruggerson]

10. There was plenty of pressure on Republicans re: DADT

And there needs to be continued pressure on both Congress and Obama on these issues.

There were published reports that Obama made not a single call to get cloture on the bill.

He may be an "ally" but he needs to be pushed and pushed like all politicians.

Why do you think this meeting happened in the first place and they allowed it to be publicized? Because AmericaBlog kept its mouth shut?

[Radical Activist]

11. How many Senate Republicans voted for it?

Apparently, there wasn't enough pressure.
I've had many reasons to be skeptical of published rumors about what Obama does.
You're right that Obama should be pushed. It's when the spin is done in the most inflammatory, hyperbolic manner possible when it isn't called for that it turns off allies who don't have the same burning hatred for Obama. It doesn't help advance any issue unless the issue is hating Obama.

[EFerrari]

13. That's right There was not enough pressure from the White House.

And it really doesn't matter what insults you level against the gay community. They are doing exactly what they need to do and those of us who are allies need to listen, watch and learn from them because they have mounted the most successful social movement in the last thirty years or more.

[Radical Activist]

15. As if you know.

You said we should wait and see the other day. For you, that only applies when he might do something good. You're more than eager to rush to judgment when you hear a negative rumor. You have a double standard when it comes to Obama.

I am not leveling insults against the gay community. Don't make false accusations against me.

[The Philosopher]

22. It's funny

how you accuse voters of not putting pressure on Republicans, then turn around and accuse those who say the White House didn't put enough pressure of not knowing if they did or not.

[EFerrari]

24. Baloney.

[Radical Activist]

29. Well that really proved your point.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ruggerson]

20. He's not some piece of delicate porcelain

that's going to shatter when dropped. He's a politician - OUR side's politician. He asked for the job and he knows this is part of the process. He can withstand even withering criticism. And the interesting part is that the louder and more intense the criticism (from our side), the more he seems to listen.

[Radical Activist]

21. True. It's part of the job.

He expects it. I don't take issue with Obama being pressured at all. I think he probably would have kept the same goal of repealing DADT this year even without the more over-the-top attacks like accusing him of Bull Connor tactics, but I could be wrong.

[ThomCat]

32. No, he would have dropped the repeal of DADT from the agenda

entirely if the LGBT community had not kept up constant pressure. There is no way he would have stood up to pressures against the LGBT community, stood up on our behalf, if we were not standing up making a huge amount of noise and exerting a lot of pressure.

This is not something he would have done out of the goodness of his heart. It still isn't. He's going to have to be pushed to do it, whether he likes it or not.

If he wants the support of our community, this is the cost. He has to support our equality in significant, concrete ways, and repealing DADT in one of those ways.


If you "take issue" with people who are upset with Obama's footdragging on LGBT equality, because they use descriptions you don't like. Tough Shit. :shrug:

The fact is, Obama has been a huge disappointment. Most of our straight "so-called allies" have been a huge disappointment too. We have had to face the fact that most of you really don't give a damn about our equality except in the most remote and casual sense. If we get equality "someday" that's good enough.

Most don't really care if we don't really get any progress now, or soon. In fact, a significant group of so-called allies seem to think that we're moving too fast, and that maybe we should slow down if getting our rights is going to offend people. (Oh Dear!)

Fuck that! We're going to do whatever we have to do to get rights NOW. Real rights. And if that offends anyone. Tough. Especially if that's someone who already has those rights and takes them for granted while not doing jack-shit to help get them for us.

[Radical Activist]

37. You're doing a lot of mind reading.

You're making a lot of assumptions about Obama's motivations and attitudes that you can't prove. And about me too. Since I've actively supported LGBT rights for my entire adult life I can say that you're a very bad mind reader. Obama has supported LGBT rights for his entire career, including his days in the Illinois state senate when he sponsored the bill that added sexual orientation to the Illinois human rights code. And I was one of the people who went with my gay and lesbian friends to lobby our republican state representative and senator in support of that bill. I've been actively involved in the fight ever since then. I'm going to keep fighting for civil rights and I'm not going to apologize for liking Obama.



Obama: Let me go to the larger issue, though, Joe, about disillusionment and disappointment. I guess my attitude is that we have been as vocal, as supportive of the LGBT community as any President in history. I’ve appointed more openly gay people to more positions in this government than any President in history. We have moved forward on a whole range of issues that were directly under my control, including, for example, hospital visitation.

On “don’t ask, don’t tell,” I have been as systematic and methodical in trying to move that agenda forward as I could be given my legal constraints, given that Congress had explicitly passed a law designed to tie my hands on the issue.

And so, I’ll be honest with you, I don’t think that the disillusionment is justified.

Now, I say that as somebody who appreciates that the LGBT community very legitimately feels these issues in very personal terms. So it’s not my place to counsel patience. One of my favorite pieces of literature is “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” and Dr. King had to battle people counseling patience and time. And he rightly said that time is neutral. And things don’t automatically get better unless people push to try to get things better.

So I don’t begrudge the LGBT community pushing, but the flip side of it is that this notion somehow that this administration has been a source of disappointment to the LGBT community, as opposed to a stalwart ally of the LGBT community, I think is wrong.

[ThomCat]

46. All talk.

Obama says that he's don't everything possible. We know that's not true. He's saying it defend himself. We expect him to say it to defend himself. That doesn't make it true. He could have done MUCH more if he really wanted to get DADT repealed.

This claim about mind reading is typical. If we expect anyone to really be an advocate for our rights, resort to an unprovable standard. Unless we can read minds, we are supposed to just accept that you, Obama, and who else are all really advocates? Anyone? Everyone?

We don't have to read minds. We don't care what someone's innermost thoughts are. We care about actions. We care about what someone has done to support our equality, or on the flip side, what they haven't done to support our equality. Despite his claims, Obama's actions are lacking.

As for you, you have a history and a reputation here. We've all read your posts. We know who you are. You're on some ignore lists for damn good reasons. Again, no mind reading is necessary.

So your claim that I'm reading minds is a really weak bullshit defense. If you want to be taken seriously as a supporter of LGBT rights, act like it. Post as if you really mean it, not as if it's something you only recently started posting by rote, and only because it's expected.

[Radical Activist]

48. Obama pointed out specific actions.

So did I.

I respond when people post misleading bullshit about Obama. I'm comfortable with that reputation, and I accept that people who hate him on a personal level will dislike what I post. I've posted in favor of LGBT rights for years, I've fought for it offline for years, and I will continue to do so.
This weekend I'll knock on doors for a candidate who hopes to be the first openly gay elected official in my town, just like I did two weeks ago. While we're knocking on doors he'll probably ask about the screening of "The Mormon Proposition" that I'm arranging because no one else has shown it here. Just liked I arranged a screening of Outrage. And the nice thing is that while I'm talking to voters door-to-door, the Obama-hating bullies on DU won't cross my mind for a minute.

Action

Working with LGBT organizations to reduce bullying and teen suicide.

Reversed an inexcusable US position by signing the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity

Endorsed the Baldwin-Lieberman bill, The Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, to provide full partnership benefits to federal employees

Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act

Lifted the HIV Entry Ban effective January 2010

Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Harvey Milk and Billie Jean King

Appointed the first transgender DNC member in history

Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees

Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAGE

Testified in favor of ENDA, the first time any official of any administration has testified in the Senate on ENDA

Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim’s actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history

Hired and appointed a record number of qualified LGBT Americans, including more than 10 Senate-confirmed appointments

Sworn in Ambassador David Huebner

Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so)

Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)

Dispatched the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to call on the Senate to repeal Don't Ask / Don't Tell, in the meantime dialing back on discharges

Launched a website to gather public comment on first-ever federal LGBT housing discrimination study

Appointed long-time equality champion Chai Feldblum one of the four Commissioners of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept gay relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage

Produced U.S. Census Bureau PSAs featuring gay, lesbian, and transgender spokespersons.

Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights."

Recorded video for "It gets better" campaign.

[ThomCat]

49. You're posting a list that has been discredited many times.

It's a list of fluff. Most of it is talk. He spoke to people. He gave speeches.

One item is taking credit for something Congress did UNDER BUSH.

One simply isn't true. "Dialing back on discharges" has been on this list for a long time, and never happened until the court just this past week ordered that discharges be halted.

Worked with LGBT organizations to reduce teen bullying and teen suicides? What has he done? What program? What policy? How? Are you trying to give him credit twice for recording a simple video statement? That is hardly "working with." He doesn't get to co-opt or take credit for the program. It's not his program.

Signed laws that any democratic president would have signed? Is that supposed to be a big deal? It's his JOB to sign laws.

Testified in favor of ENDA? Really? IF he's in support of ENDA then why isn't ENDA on his agenda?

This list is bullshit. It has always been bullshit. It has been pulled apart repeatedly. Yet it keeps getting posted as if it means something.

[Bluebear]

14. Americablog was the first gay org to get invited to meet with Obama.

Of course, Americablog is trashed here day in and day out. You would think if they were good enough for Obama to talk to...

[Radical Activist]

16. The spin by Aravosis is corrected at DU.

And he wasn't invited.

[EFerrari]

25. Trying to isolate John as you do only makes you look uninformed

Maybe you should go check and see what all the other gay bloggers you read have to say. :)

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radical Activist]

44. I never attacked the gay community. Stop your personal attacks against me.

I consider that a false, ugly personal attack. I see what you're doing. You can't intellectually respond to my arguments so you're making accusations to turn people against me. I already asked you to stop once. It's pathetic.

[Bluebear]

17. sorry, whoever replied, can't see your contribution

[Radical Activist]

19. I always love it when people make a display of putting others on ignore.

It's so mature.
What did you think of this part of the interview?


Obama: On “don’t ask, don’t tell,” I have been as systematic and methodical in trying to move that agenda forward as I could be given my legal constraints, given that Congress had explicitly passed a law designed to tie my hands on the issue.

And so, I’ll be honest with you, I don’t think that the disillusionment is justified.

Now, I say that as somebody who appreciates that the LGBT community very legitimately feels these issues in very personal terms. So it’s not my place to counsel patience. One of my favorite pieces of literature is “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” and Dr. King had to battle people counseling patience and time. And he rightly said that time is neutral. And things don’t automatically get better unless people push to try to get things better.

So I don’t begrudge the LGBT community pushing, but the flip side of it is that this notion somehow that this administration has been a source of disappointment to the LGBT community, as opposed to a stalwart ally of the LGBT community, I think is wrong.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ignis]

41. Ignore is the only available response to a lack of moderation.

:shrug:

After the first few hundred times of trying, this gets old: :banghead:

[Radical Activist]

42. Be careful what you wish for.

Considering the ugly personal attacks you've directed at me in the past I'm pretty sure that heavy moderation on this site would not go well for you.

[Ignis]

45. I don't recall having directed a single personal attack towards you.

But I'll wait for you to produce the evidence to support your assertion before passing judgment.

And then we can get down to the business of discussing why your own personal attacks are so infrequently deleted. That should be a fun conversation.

[Ignis]

50. Can I assume from your silence that you rescind your baseless claim?

:shrug:

[Unvanguard]

23. Thank you very much for posting this. n/t

[VMI Dem]

34. Cowardly.

As usual.

[crazyjoe]

35. Bush and McCain were also supportive of civil unions.

so what's the difference? Sorry, but I see a man talking out of both sides of his mouth.
DADT is an embarrassment to this county, it has been declared unconstitutional by a federal judge, and the white house is supporting a reversal of this ruling???
anyone who buys this crap gets what they deserve. nothing.

[VMI Dem]

36. Well, DADT is Obama's law now.

We'll see what he does with it.

[crazyjoe]

47. Seems to me he's just killing time. He doesn't seem to

want to deal with it, just like same sex marriage.

[joeybee12]

39. "It's not a simple yes or no question..."

Talk about weasley.

[Touchdown]

40. Talk is cheap. I want to see what he did, not what he wants to do.

Pointing fingers at Repubs in the Senate is still not getting anything done.