where in the constitution is there anything about abortion? all these damned teabaggers and insane

[niyad]

reichwingers are so determined to tell us what strict constructionists they are, how if there isn't something specifically IN the constitution, nothing can be done. soooo, where in the constitution is there anything about abortion, and the ability of congress to outlaw it?

did I miss something in all my polisci classes? and, if not, why aren't they being challenged on this little point?

[Rex]

1. It is in their Bible and that trumps everything else.

Did you expect reason or sanity from teabaggers? Expect to be disappointed.

[niyad]

4. no, I don't expect reason or sanity from them--I just wish somebody would acutally challenge them on

this question.

[Zoeisright]

19. Actually, it isn't in their Bible.

The only mention of abortion is that if a man injures a woman and causes a miscarriage, he should pay THE FATHER a small sum. Hardly a condemnation of abortion. Jesus never mentions abortion. And the 'thou shalt not kill' thing actually means don't murder people. An embryo is not a person.

[arbusto_baboso]

31. Yes, and God even commands genocide in certain sections of the OT.

But hey, that's no reason NOT to cherry-pick the bible for shit that supports one's own batshit-crazy worldview, is it?

[RKP5637]

2. Sadly they have a following as stupid as they are that votes and to both it makes

no difference what is fact or fiction, that is really really sad.

[madmax]

3. It's safe to assume that every member

of DU is pro-choice. I have always been and always will be. It's no secret to my family and friends, most of whom are also. My 20 y.o. Granddaugher is Pro-Life not in the legal sense. She believes that if you're going to have sex you have to be responsible. That said, she does not want to see Roe v. Wade overturned. She believes it's up to the woman but, in her personal life she would not have an abortion.

Just wondering howmany other people feel that way and imo that's the way it should be. If you don't want to have an abortion - Don't. If you feel you should and you've made peace with your God or your conscience - do what you think best. Freedom and Liberty. That's in the constituion.

[niyad]

5. not so sure about that bet, although the majority probably are, or, at least, not pro-forced birth.

[madmax]

10. That's interesting

someone should post an OP - just a poll. ;) I'd do it but, I'm too embarrassed to tell.

[diveguy]

6. I feel that way.

I would never murder a baby. But, If a woman decides she wants to, then that is a choice she has to make and the consequences she has to live with.

[left coaster]

11. "I would never murder a baby."

That sounds like something you might read on some right to lifer's protest sign. You sure you're in the right place?
You do know that a legal abortion is a medical procedure, not murder. Educate your self, FFS.

But you are right about it being HER choice.

[Yupster]

17. My wife says the same thing

"I beleive abortion is murder absolutely, but I still think it should be legal."

Never made any sense to me, but I don't argue with her.

[diveguy]

27. I believe that it is murder,

but, its a decision that a woman has to make. I guess i need to say it outright. I dont believe in abortion, but i am pro-choice. I dont force my opinion on others and i dont need facist's forcing thier opinion on me.

[Le Taz Hot]

18. "I would never murder a baby."

Uh, neither would anyone I know. I do, however, know women, myself included, who have had safe, legal, first trimester abortions. Tell me you forgot this: :sarcasm:

[kestrel91316]

25. Sadly, we have some anti-choicers here. Not so sure they are actually

Dems, though. More likely posers.

[diveguy]

7. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

[Zoeisright]

21. Exactly.

Liberty. Giving women the freedom to control what happens to their bodies. In other words, the government doesn't have the intrusive right to interfere with what happens between a woman and her doctor.

Didn't expect that, did you? And I think the board you want is to the right. Buh-bye.

[diveguy]

26. what part of my post

says that i am anti-choice. reading comprehension is fundamental.

[DavidDvorkin]

22. Which isn't in the Constutition.

[Yupster]

8. Their complaint is that it should be up to congress

or actually they would say State Legislatures to rule on it.

The idea being that legislatures should pass laws yes or no on stuff.

In the case of abortion, the state laws that the legislatures had passed were overturned by a court saying the right to an abortion was in the Constitution.

Before the Supreme Court's Roe vs Wade ruling each state legislature passed its own law on how its state would handle the legality of abortions.

The Supreme Court overturned those state laws saying the Constitution contained a right to a legal abortion in the shadows (penumbra) of the 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment was passed right after the Civil War and was part of the three Civil Rights amendments doing away with slavery.

The 13th Amendment ended slavery.
The 14th Amendment made freed slaves citizens of the state in which they resided.
The 15th Amendment made freed male slaves eligible to vote.

Claiming the 14th Amendment gave the right for abortion was really quite a stretch.

Interestingly that 14th Amendment has also been interpreted to mean that a person born in the US becomes a citizen by the fact of the birth regardless of whether the mother was in the country legally or not -- a very unusual interpretation of citizenship worlwide.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. I seem to remember a member of the supreme court saying it was in the penumbra

[Rincewind]

12. It's the part of the

Constitution that gives them the right to drive a pickup truck, and watch NASCAR.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. They want to extend rights under the 14th amendment to fertilized eggs.

Making every woman who uses oral contraceptives a potential murderer, and every one who has an IUD guilty of carrying a "concealed murder weapon".

El Salvador Forensic Vagina Inspectors, Here We Come.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zbdent]

15. What I want to know is this ...

if they are granting that a fertilized egg is a full person, with rights guaranteed by the constitution ...

then, if a corporation decides to relax its standards (and break the law by ignoring federal safety standards) and can be found to be directly responsible for a spontaneous "natural" abortion of a fetus (such as food poisoning killing said fertilized egg, or an industrial accident which causes a pregnant woman to lose her pregnancy), then why can't they be sued for causing the death of the "child"?

[pipoman]

16. Post 8 is the technical answer to your query

the point of which is that you are making their argument. Their point, as I understand it, is that because there is no mention of abortion in the constitution, the ability to regulate abortion should fall to the states, they don't want the feds involved...I may be wrong since I don't really follow their memes and mantras.

[Yupster]

23. Exactly right

The argument is that the Constitution limits the power of the federal government.

The ninth Amendment says if a power is notr granted to the congress, then it should be state legislatures that make laws on an issue.

Since abortion is clearly not mentioned in the Coinstitution, it should be up to state legislatures to make laws on the issue.

That is how it always had been until Roe versus Wade announced that the right to a legal abortion was actually in the Constitution which brought the retort .... Where?

The answer was within the penumbra of the 14th Amendment.

Huh?

The 14th Amendment was a Civil War Amendment. It canceled the Confederate debt. It made freed slaves citizens. It banned Confederate leaders from serving in government. ----- and it made abortions a Constitutional right?

[Zoeisright]

24. The Fourteenth Amendment also

determines a citizen as a "person born in the United States." Since fetuses aren't born, they aren't legally persons and so can't have individual rights.

Do a little research, please.

[Yupster]

28. I don't understand your post

I didn't say anything about fetuses being persons.

Were you responding to the wrong person perhaps?

[slackmaster]

20. That's covered in Amendments IX and/or X, I believe

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

A strict constructionist view (in my opinion) would say that the people have the right to get abortions for the same reason they have the right to own, say, or do anything that hasn't been prohibited by due process of (state) law.

If a power to regulate abortion exists, that power would belong to the states rather than the federal government. One could question whether or not such a power exists, and its scope.

(That's not my view, just my opinion of what a strict constructionist ought to say.)

[Yupster]

29. That's what they say

Since abortion isn't mentioned or even hinted at in the Constitution, then it would fall to the Ninth Amendment.

Powers not given to the federal government reside in the states.

So it would be up to the states to make abortion laws pro or con.

That was how it always was until Roe vs Wade said the right to a legal abortion actually was in the Constitution.

[slackmaster]

30. My mom, aunts, and many other women from that generation have told me what it was like

It seems that every woman over about age 60 personally knew at least one woman who became pregnant while very young, was forced to have the baby, and had her life ruined in one way or another because abortion wasn't an option. Not to mention the botched illegal abortions.

[Yupster]

32. What happened around my area was

the schoolgirls would disappear for a while usually because an aunt or grandmother was ill far away and needed help.

The girl would return after the baby was born and the baby would go to an orphanage.

Most times people knew what was going on. It was kind of a wink wink, everyone knew but no one said.

[TheKentuckian]

33. While I don't agree with the thinking if you believe fetus=person then the rest falls right in place

Once you are of that belief then the constitution already protects the fetus the same as it protects you and I. Hence they believe abortion is just another word for murder and I think there is a substantial consensus on murder being a crime government has a right to make law about.