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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:00 PM
Original message
Stereotyping of “Socialism” in the Service of Class Warfare
Occasionally I play tennis on weekends with a small group of men who are predominantly Republicans and who like to engage in Democrat bashing between games. One recent comment – which most of us have heard repeated ad nauseum – that sticks in my mind is that President Obama is the most “socialistic” president we’ve ever had.

The man who said that is a physician and is undoubtedly at least reasonably intelligent. So why would he (or anyone else) say such an ignorant and stupid thing? I believe that there is one reason above all else: It is repeated endlessly on our corporate media by the right wing propaganda machine. For people who don’t care to give matters much thought, when they hear something repeated often enough it becomes so self-evidently true that it requires no argument at all to sustain it. Furthermore, they can see that: 1) Obama is black (true); 2) Most black people are substantially to the left of the U.S. population (true – and with damn good reason); 3) Socialism is a leftist idea (true); 4) “Socialism” is a pejorative term in the United States (true), and; 5) Why let an opportunity to bash a Democratic president go to waste?

What could I say to the accusation of Obama being a socialist? “No he’s not” seemed too simple and childish. One could talk for hours about the evidence pointing to the fact that Obama is the least socialistic Democratic U.S. president since the 19th Century, but there’s hardly time to go into that between tennis games. So I just asked my tennis friend if he believes in Medicare and Social Security. He seemed stymied for a moment, before saying something non-committal like, “I think that there’s a place for them”.

That should be the absolute end of the argument against anyone attempting to stigmatize something simply by attaching the word “socialism” to it. The difference between capitalism and socialism is that with capitalism the means of production and distribution are “owned” by individuals, whereas with socialism the means of production and distribution are collectively “owned” by society/government. No economic system in the world is now or has ever been purely capitalistic. Any time a government taxes private individuals and then uses the collected money to provide goods or services to its citizens, that government is practicing socialism. Social Security and Medicare therefore are prime examples of socialism. So is our public school system. So is our national highway system. So are police forces and our military. Our nation’s economic system does now and always has consisted of aspects of socialism, along with aspects of capitalism. Anyone who is willing to acknowledge that Medicare or Social Security or our military “have a place” in our nation is thereby admitting that socialism has a place in our nation. They should think about that before they attempt to stigmatize something merely by attaching the word “socialism” to it.

Yet for about a century and a half the powers that be in the United States have turned “socialism” into such a pejorative term that the mere use of the word serves as the ultimate argument against anything that they don’t like. Medicare and Social Security were lambasted as “socialism” by right wing elites before they became the law of the land. But they wouldn’t dare do that now, now that they have become so popular.


The reasons for the war against socialism in the United States

The wealthy conservative elite of our society tag the “socialism” label on all those laws and policies that benefit approximately the less wealthy and powerful 98% of our population, and especially those that benefit the poor. They do that, very simply, because those laws and policies reduce their own wealth and power. That is what the century and a half war against socialism in the United States is all about. Those conservative elites are right about one thing. The policies that they rail against are indeed socialistic. When added to a primarily capitalistic system, such as operates in our country, they produce a mixed capitalism/socialism system which guards against the harmful excesses of capitalism which tend to drive people into poverty and reduce the quality of life of millions of our citizens.

The question is not whether government should intervene in the economy of its society, but in what manner should it intervene and who should receive the benefits of that intervention. More to the point, the financial rules of a society may be set mostly for the benefit of the rich and powerful, or they may be set up to more broadly benefit everyone. Policies which tend to benefit the less wealthy and powerful include such things as: protections against environmental degradation; protection for consumers against the risks of dangerous products; protection against dangerous working conditions; anti-trust laws to ensure competition; anti-discrimination laws; progressive tax laws; minimum wage laws; provision of government health care, education, and child care assistance; promotion or assurance of full employment for those able and willing to work; and labor laws that strengthen the bargaining capabilities of workers. All of these policies can operate without reducing the profit incentive to the point where the public suffers from a non-productive economy. I believe that these policies should be used because: 1) they provide needed protections to the most vulnerable of our population; 2) they benefit about 98% of the remainder of our population; and 3) they are fair.

Yet the slightest hint of these policies is enough to make the right wing conservative elite apoplectic. They rail against “socialism” as if it was the invention of the devil. And then they accuse anyone who advocates these policies, not only of socialism or Communism, but of “class warfare”. Well, it is class warfare – but it’s practiced by both sides. It’s practiced by the right wing elite in order to preserve their wealth and power at the expense of everyone else. And in defense against that, when our plight becomes bad enough we object and attempt to create progressive policies or legislation in order to counter their attacks.


Origins of the war against socialism in the United States

With the onset of the industrial age working people in the United States had it very rough. They often worked very hard, under very bad physical conditions, for very little money, and for so many hours that they had very little time for leisure or to spend with their families. A process that is crucial in allowing this to happen is called monopolization. When individuals or corporations have a monopoly on a particular product or service there is no room for market forces to operate. The owner of the monopoly has the opportunity to maximize its profits at the expense of everyone else. Barry Lynn discusses this process in his book, “Cornered – The New Monopoly Capitalism and the Economics of Destruction”.

The structural monopolization of so many systems resulted in a set of political arrangements similar to… corporatism. This means that our political economy is run by a compact elite that is able to fuse the power of our public government with the power of private corporate governments in ways that enable members of the elite not merely to offload their risk onto us but also to determine with almost complete freedom who wins, who loses, and who pays.

Labor unions began to form as a response to repressive conditions. Industry vigorously resisted their demands, greatly assisted by the leading newspapers of the time, as well as the powers of government. They endlessly described the U.S. labor movement as socialist, Communist, and anarchist, as a means of demonizing it. James Green, in his book “Death in the Haymarket – A story of Chicago, the First Labor Movement and the Bombing that Divided Gilded Age America”, describes in detail some of the early struggles of the labor movement in the United States. A major focus of the book, as the title suggests, was the Haymarket Square bombing incident of May 5, 1886, which occurred during a major labor protest. Green describes how government officials bribed, threatened or tortured witnesses into testifying against 8 indicted labor leaders, which resulted in death sentences for 7 of the 8.

Then, much as the 9/11 bombing of the World Trade Center buildings and the Pentagon provided an excuse for the invasion of two sovereign nations, the torture of thousands, widespread violations of international treaties meant to protect human rights, and widespread violations of the U.S. Constitution in the cause of suppressing civil liberties in our country, the right wing elite used the Haymarket Square bombing and other excuses to justify suppression of labor unions. This very possibly set back the labor movement in the United States by decades. By the first decades of the 20th Century, the United States was in the midst of such a Red scare that Eugene Debs, perennial Socialist candidate for President of the United States, was repeatedly imprisoned for speaking out about his beliefs. An overall idea of the violence involved in conflicts between labor and employers in the United States is provided by the historian Richard Hofstadter, writing in 1970. Hofstadter concluded that the United States had experienced at least 160 instances in which state or federal troops had intervened in strikes, and at least 700 labor disputes in which deaths were recorded, with clearly most of the violence being perpetrated by state or federal authorities.


Counter-measures

Beginning with the Sherman Anti-trust law of 1890 and continuing with President Theodore Roosevelt’s trust busting efforts, the Progressive Movement sought to prevent unfair monopolistic practices, especially with regard to services that are essential to us.

Probably no figure in American history did more to socialize our economic system than Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who is widely recognized as the second greatest president in U.S. history. Nor was any other figure in U.S. history despised as much by the right wing conservative elite, with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln, who is widely recognized as the greatest president in U.S. history. Needless to say, Roosevelt was widely accused by the right wing elite of being a Communist. Cass Sunstein, in his book, “The Second Bill of Rights – FDR’s Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need it More than Ever”, describes the philosophy that motivated Roosevelt to fight for his radical (at the time) programs to benefit the American people:

To Roosevelt, human distress could no longer be taken as an inevitable by-product of life, society, or “nature”; it was an artifact of social policies and choices. Much human misery is preventable. The only question is whether a government is determined to prevent it…. Foremost was the idea that poverty is preventable, that poverty is destructive, wasteful, demoralizing, and that poverty is morally unacceptable in a Christian and democratic society.

Consequently, FDR introduced the concept of economic and social rights, which had not gained much traction in the United States until his Presidency. FDRs Presidency and fervent advocating of these rights coincided with circumstances (The Great Depression) that made their need glaringly apparent to a large proportion of American citizens. Some of the most concrete results of FDR’s efforts were the Social Security Act of 1935, the creation of several agencies that produced greatly needed jobs, labor protection laws that created the right for workers to organize into unions and a federal minimum wage, antitrust policies, the GI bill of rights, and to help pay for some of those programs, record tax rates on wealthy corporations and individuals. But perhaps more important than these concrete accomplishments, by the end of FDR’s Presidency large segments of the American population accepted many aspects of his Second Bill of Rights as legitimate rights – for example, the right to a good education.

FDR’s radical transformation of U.S. society was followed by several decades of what Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman refers to as the “the greatest sustained economic boom in U.S. history”. So popular was this socialization of U.S. economic policy that the Republican Party gave up on trying to fight it, for reasons that are made clear in a letter that Republican President Eisenhower wrote to his brother on the subject:

Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are…. a few Texas oil millionaires… Their number is negligible and they are stupid.


The U.S. international war against socialism

For several decades the U.S. justified its Cold War policies as a fight for freedom against the Communist/Socialist forces of the Soviet Union. Using Communism/Socialism as an excuse, our CIA and military intervened in dozens of nations anywhere and everywhere in the world to overthrow the legally elected governments of other countries or to prevent them from being elected in the first place. This gave rise to repressive right wing governments all over the world and resulted in untold misery widely distributed throughout the world. Richard J. Walton describes the situation in his book, “Henry Wallace, Harry Truman, and the Cold War”:

Various right wing dictators… were quick to perceive that the United States was supporting them not out of a genuine concern for their people but because they were allies in an anti-Communist crusade that took precedence over all other considerations… It is difficult to think of a single instance where the United States took effective measures to end repressive, undemocratic practices of a regime it claimed to be supporting in the defense of democracy…

There were many reasons for these interventions. Perhaps the most important reason was that our right wing elite knew that they couldn’t afford to allow a successful example of socialism be made visible to the American people, thus opening up the possibility that the American people might want to go that route themselves.

Thus it was that, fearing a Communist victory in the 1956 elections in Vietnam, U.S. Secretary of State John Foster Dulles convinced President Eisenhower to prevent those elections from taking place as planned. Eisenhower proclaimed an indefinite commitment by the United States to that effect, despite the fact that the Geneva Conference Agreements, which officially ended the war between France and Vietnam in 1954, provided for general elections with the intent of bringing about the unification of Vietnam. Yet from the time that we prevented the Vietnamese from holding elections in 1956 as previously agreed, until our withdrawal from Vietnam 17 years later, the justification for our imperial policies there was always the claim that we were helping the Vietnamese to throw of the yolk of Communism and to prevent the spread of Communism to other countries. As many as four million Vietnamese died for that cause of ours.


And so it continues

And so today, as it has for the past century and a half, the right wing elites continue to rail against socialism. They use the scare of the socialist menace to rail against meaningful health care reform. They use it to rail against regulation of Wall Street’s predatory financial practices. They use it to rail against any meaningful measures to curb the corporate induced climate change that threatens to destroy our planet. And they use it to elect their own kind to public office. And Democrats so often fall in line with this nonsense that they’ve been unable to accomplish much over a two year period in which they controlled the Presidency and both Houses of Congress by large majorities – and now they face likely defeat at the polls because of this.

Instead of bowing to right wing forces and thus contributing to the continuing ignorance of the American people on this issue, Democrats should explain to the American people what socialism is and the role that it has played in our history. They should explain to the American people that many of their most cherished and popular programs are largely grounded in socialistic ideals.

At least we have one example in the U.S. Senate of someone who isn’t afraid to do that. Senator Bernie Sanders is often asked – or challenged – to defend socialism. When Amy Goodman asked him, “What do you mean, Socialist?” Sanders responded:

that as a right, all of our kids, regardless of income, have quality childcare, are able to go to college without going deeply into debt; that it means we do not allow large corporations and moneyed interests to destroy our environment; that we create a government in which it is not dominated by big money interest. I mean, to me, it means democracy, frankly. That’s all it means. And we are living in an increasingly undemocratic society in which decisions are made by people who have huge sums of money. And that’s the goal that we have to achieve.

Sanders also defended Socialism is his own article, in which he pointed out that the system under which we currently live is very far from the heaven on earth that so many defenders of the status quo portray it to be:

We have the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world. Our childcare system is totally inadequate. Too many of our kids drop out of school, and college is increasingly unaffordable. One of the results of how we neglect many of our children is that we end up with more people in jails and prisons than any other country on earth. There is a correlation between the highest rate of childhood poverty and the highest rate of incarceration.

Perhaps Sanders’ respect for the truth, and his willingness to share it with his constituents, is one reason why he has one of the safest seats in the U.S. Senate despite the lack of corporate money in his campaign coffers.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Socialism, socialism, socialism
why don't they get over it.

socialism is at least for the people not for the corporate America
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. Yeah, that's what I look at it as too...............
Socialism simply means that the PEOPLE of the country (represented by the freely ELECTED government) are in control of the welfare OF the country. And that the people have control over business, not the other way around.

If they don't like it, there's a lovely libertarian Paradise with NO government awaiting them in Somolia. We'll take over their businesses when they leave and let the workers run it.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Socialism. because it is the right thing to do..nt
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Republicans love everything about Socialism except its labor movements.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Huh? That cartoon doesn't make any sense at all.
Wall St. does not want socialism and there is nothing about socialism that capitalists like. It's the antithesis of capitalism. Now, Keynesianism, some capitalists liked...

This is probably a piece of RW disinformation agitprop against early 20th century socialists. Fascists often claim that socialists are "elitists" in bed with capitalists. It's illogical but it plays to the hatreds of a population that has been robbed blind.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. The right wing re-writing history
That is their standard method of operating. Our media never take note of it, so they continue to get away with it.

Prior to the passage of Social Security and Medicare, they were rapidly denounced as Socialism!! Now you never hear about that, and hardly anyone ever points out the socialistic aspects of those programs. To call attention to these basic facts would substantially lessen their ability to denounce public programs as "Socialism!"
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. Someone's sure trying to rewrite history. (See post #33)
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. The cartoonist, Robert Berkeley "Bob" Minor, was a leading member of the American Communist Party.
Edited on Sun Oct-31-10 10:43 PM by phasma ex machina
In 1907 Minor joined the Socialist Party of America but by the beginning of 1912 he had moved towards an anarchist orientation and support of revolutionary industrial unionism. (link)


Minor and his Republican publisher Pulitzer, both seem to sincerely approve of Marx. Old political cartoons often look bad. Perceived negative caricatures may just be bad art.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
39. of course wall street wants socialism. production is fully socialised (except for distribution of
the value of production) -- & thus, finance, which is a partial parasite on production, is also fully socialised.

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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
40. I take it in the same vein as Mr. Block cartoons
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
41. I disagree
Beginning with the corn laws in England the capitalists were able to socialize the cost of production by getting the government to bear the cost of idled workers, who had been driven from the land. Today's welfare works the same, providing the capitalist class with a supply of surplus labor available at any time at the taxpayer expense. This surplus labor also helps drive down the cost of labor.

If I abandoned my old dog because he couldn't herd anymore or I sold off my sheep the SPCA would be on my ass in a heartbeat. If You throw your workers out on the street the government has to keep them breeding so you have plenty when you need them. You keep the profits the government takes the losses. Sweet. If you really fuck up and go big in the whole you get bailed out.


This is a great subject to explore. Currently corporate welfare is five times what personal welfare is.
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soryang Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well said
Can you distill all that down to one phrase or a two word jingle for tv? They you might be able to reach the typical American.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-29-10 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent post. Thanks
I agree anything to demean Obama.

But could there be a method to their madness. This constant
anti-socialism drumbeat may be their way of laying the groundwork
for attempting to dismantle the social Safety Net.

Everyone of the Teabaggers running, have the urge to privatize
SS Medicare and if they can get rid of Medicaid. Several
of them do not believe or at least say they are unconstitutionsl.



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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. Right on
If you don't like socialism, stop using our roads. Stop drinking our water. Stop using our toilets. And stop hiding behind our military, go take your *$^#ing oil from the Middle East all by yourself.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Except what they want to do is privatize all those things
and make our society 100% capitalist oligarchy.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Privatizing means stealing
Are YOU interested in selling YOUR interest in the road system? How about your interest in the military? How much do you plan to ask for them?

OF COURSE they want to "privatize" them. What they don't want to do is build their own, and pay fair prices for them.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. It's a great argument if you can get people to listen...
The TP people are convinced that the corporations serve their best interests better than the government. They don't view the government as themselves.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. Just another greedy rich man who can't spare a dime..
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. Interest
People call Obama a "socialist" because it is in their interest to do so. Reform reduces their wealth, power and influence.

It is unnecessary to know anything at all about economic and political theory to say that Obama is a socialist. They believe that he is because it expedient to do so. There are no words and there are no deeds which will change their view.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
12. Are the means of production and distribution owned by individuals under capitalism?
I thought they were (mostly) owned by corporations, though the doctrine of corporate personhood allows them to be classed as individuals.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Under capitalism the means of production and distribution are owned privately
That includes individuals, as well as individuals who have formed into groups, such as corporations. The bottom line is that they are private rather than public, i.e. they do not represent a public purpose, such as government is supposed to do.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R ! //nt
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. Auto K&R. Another winner.
I think that if candidates just kept talking about what Socialism does for people, while ignoring the label, and followed through with their actions, they too could have seats as safe as Bernie Sanders.


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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Obama is a socialist, so am I
We Socialists have been beaten on so bad we shrink from being what we are.

Socialism means family.

Socialism means caring about others.

Socialism means being broad minded.

Damn near everyone is a socialist.

Next time someone bitches about socialism remind them they are dependent upon thousands of others to keep them clothed, sheltered and fed.

We're all in this together.

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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. beautifully said
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. I sure would love to see that
As far as I know, Sanders is the only U.S. Senator who's tried it. It worked pretty well for him.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. It seems to me that it is all about community. "Socialism" has become has become an epithet and also
'just another party' so the word is meaningless.

How about a candidate that promotes the ideas of communities of communities instead of party affiliation? Voters are (justifiably) unhappy with most of the choices they are offered, so alternatives, especially at more local levels, might become more attractive.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. They made an epithet out of socialism, then they made an epithet out of liberalism
It seems that every time they make something into an epithet people stop using the word. I'd love to see the American people stop giving in to that kind of crap. Once the American people begin to realize that they are far to the left of our rulers we will begin to make large strides towards taking back control, I believe.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. Our highway system, police forces, military, public schools & post office ARE, but Medicare is ....
Edited on Sat Oct-30-10 10:09 AM by Faryn Balyncd


....almost entirely delivered by private enterprise - (physicians who are NOT employees of the government, privately owned hospitals, etc) The insurance portion of traditional Medicare is an example of a partially socialized insurance system (even in traditional Medicare, Medi-gap insurance is privately provided). But the actual delivery of medical services is Medicare done by entities neither owned by nor employed by the government.

Your golf buddy would be much more consistent if he complained about the truly socialized U. S. Marine Corps than about allegedly "socialized" Medicare.





(Thanks for excellent post.)



:kick:


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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
17. Just tell folks that Obama is about as socialist..........
as Reagan was. If they doubt, go through the programs that the "socialist" Obama has gotten through Congress. They were ALL Republican proposals from 20+ years ago.

Alternately, you could just say, "I WISH!", with a grimace. :)
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Socialism
is banned from discourse in the US society - never taught in the public school systems and our entertainment industry is charged with subliminal pro-capitalist messages. Any foreign government that doesn't tow the capitalist party line is demonized by our news media.

It is not surprising that the American public is so ignorant.

I just watched a recently released (2009) Oliver Stone documentary about socialist government in Latin America - Venezuela, Bolivia, Argentina, Ecuador, Brazil (left of center) and Cuba. He refers to these governments' movements toward socialism as 'Bolivarian' - reference to Simon Bolivar. The move 'South of the Border' is highly recommended. The movie ends with the notion that with the strong Latino population in the US, some of them with strong ties to those Bolivarian countries, perhaps there is hopes that some socialist ideas will migrate to and influence the US.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. That just about says it all
Maybe we should look at the rapidly increasing Latino population in our country as an up and coming counter-balancing force. Perhaps that's why the right wing is so apoplectic about it.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
25. K & R
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. What USSR had was "totaliarian socialism" ... iow, right wing dictatorship.....
And J. Edgar Hoover would always refer to USSR in that way - thusly,

"totalitarian communism" or "totalitarian socialism."

If we could clone Bernie Sanders X1000 we'd have it made!!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
30. Right wing created the fear of socialism and then created McCarthy Era to remove
Edited on Sat Oct-30-10 09:40 PM by defendandprotect
liberals/progressives from government --

The totalitarian socialism they supported was right wing --

the socialism they fought against was liberal - economic democracy --

"McCarthy Era was an attack on the ideals of democracy" --

Molly Ivins


Edited to add ....

Anyone still watching corporate-press/MSM gets what they deserve!



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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-10 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
31. Excellent! nt
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briteleaf Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. Class warfare
It's funny how the efforts of forces on the left to improve america's horrible educational system, health care system, or any program that benefits americans who are not wealthy are dismissed by forces on the right as "attempts at class warfare" or "redistribution of the wealth". Programs that provide benefits to americans are demonized by calling them "socialistic/communistic" because so many of us are not educated enough to differentiate them. We had those decades of cold war against the socialist/communist block so they can't be good. Back in the 1950's, the ultra wealthy paid over 90% federal income tax. Today they pay a smaller percentage (after myriad deductions)than someone flipping burgers. The ultra wealthy and their corporations donate millions to political candidates who will fight against tax increases for the wealthy. The bad news that is secret is that these same folks also donate to democratic candidates who will support their agenda too. Surprise, we have a secret plutocracy. How can the vast majority end a plutocracy without CLASS WARFARE?
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. So true. You know the hatred of welfare is also strong with them, still....
Edited on Mon Nov-01-10 01:04 AM by nc4bo
I've got someone telling me how horrible it is that a few scammers are getting food stamps.

FOOD STAMPS??!! FS only take up a tiny, tiny portion of budget :wtf:

In the grand scheme of things, someone getting some food stamps should be the least of your worries.

All socialist program just drive them completely nuts, nuts until they find themselves on the receiving end, then it's a different story.

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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
34. kick for later...
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
37. Kick, to late to Rec & bookmarking for later reading. nt
Edited on Mon Nov-01-10 12:31 AM by nc4bo
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