A sanity rally shouldn't have John "charter school" Legend performing.

[Billy Burnett]

:wtf: He's a strident activist for charter school privatization.

He's been touring with Arni Duncan pushing this crap.

[LaurenG]

1. He is a really good singer though. nt

[femmocrat]

2. Didn't know that.

This is turning into a Roots concert.

[Gabi Hayes]

4. yeah...a headsup, please,when the music's over. I linked about Legend's

charter connections in another thread.

here

http://www.postbourgie.com/2010/03/04/shut-the-hell-up-john-legend/

[Billy Burnett]

16. Gabi, do you have the DU thread link?

Thanks. :hi:

[Gabi Hayes]

19. here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9420381

[femmocrat]

17. Music is over.

Guess these are the "comedians" up now?

[Gabi Hayes]

20. mythbusters!!!

thought they were pugs, especially the moustache guy

they 'proved' oswald shot kennedy. wtf?

[Codeine]

26. pugs? What made you think that? nt

[Gabi Hayes]

46. he strikes me as very conservative, generally.

could be wrong, but he seems like such a tightass, allergic to Adam's 'fun'

[femmocrat]

27. Sorry, never heard of them.

And they suck.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

6. Apparently they're playing for a whole hour

Jon Stewart doesn't take the stage until 1:00

[Codeine]

3. His politics mean lesss than the fact that he Just. Plain. Sucks.

So do the Roots. Awful.

[marmar]

11. The Roots, awful?

There's no accounting for taste.

[DangerousRhythm]

79. For real... I LOVED The Roots!

I really thought they put on a great show! :)

[Scruffy1]

92. Yep, I thought he was just an innocuous stoner thing.

[Windy]

5. living in the Detroit Metro area, I can see why someone would advocate for inner city charter school

the Detroit Public School system is atrocious. The drop out rate is something like 80% and kids take their lives in their own hands when going to high school.

[Billy Burnett]

7. Then we should rally to fix this insanity, not sell it off to the for-profit meatgrinder. eom

[Telly Savalas]

74. The charter school my kid goes to is sponsored by a state university

There's no profit involved.

The fact that you want to shut it down is insanity.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. And what 'non-profit' foundations donate to the school your kid goes to?

[Radical Activist]

126. Thanks.

No matter how many times this is pointed out the talking point about it being a corporate takeover never dies.

[woo me with science]

131. Thank you.

There's a script here, and it keeps being repeated, facts be damned.

[Gabi Hayes]

problem is, charters are NOT the answer, especially the way they've 'evolved,' meaning they're now

nothing but a trojan horse for a big business takeover of public education

that's all it is now

do you know who 'liberal' andrew cuomo's running mate (lt. governor) is?

check that one out

disgusting

not only that, but cuomo has come out against UNIONS!

[Starry Messenger]

12. Charter schools aren't going to do anything to fix that.

They just offload the kids who fail back into public schools. Jobs and resources, how come no one ever advocates for that?

[marmar]

15. "their lives in their own hands when going to high school. "

Umm, overstatement much?

[Windy]

30. Um no.... I take it you live here? Read newspapers much?

I wouldn't send my kids to Detroit public schools! You have a man, Robert Bobb who is trying to make a difference and he his getting bucked by the corrupt school board at every turn... DPS is a LONG way from being healthy

[marmar]

38. Yeah, of 100,000 students, at least 10,000 get picked off on their way to school daily

The statement "taking their lives in their own hands" is hyperbolic BS. I'm not talking about the school board and the educational program.

[Starry Messenger]

39. Yeah, he really made a difference.

The DPS debt is higher than ever due to Bobb racking it up. I'm sure they're grateful. http://metrotimes.com/news/bobb-s-deep-debt-1.1047664?sms_ss=email&at_xt=4cb5dfa57649bc9e%2C0

[Hannah Bell]

87. but he talks a good game, starry, that's all that matters.

[Starry Messenger]

93. It's like the song from "Chicago"

"Give them the old razzle-dazzle" or however that goes. What he did to DPS was criminal. He should be ridden out on a rail. We should all be paid $425,000 to do the opposite of what we were hired for.

[Hannah Bell]

101. imo, he was hired to fire teachers & dig detroit further in the hole.

[Starry Messenger]

102. I thought about that right before I hit "post"

He's really been a wrecking ball to the whole system. I knew he was bad but that article was kind of a horrifying revelation. It's still sinking in.

[CBR]

8. I like him... nt

[Billy Burnett]

10. I'm not speaking to his musicianship in this thread. Only his pro privatization politics. eom

[dkf]

9. Like I keep saying...the strongest advocates for reform are successful black men.

Because black boys are the worst victims of our current system. They think it's a civil rights issue and i agree.

[Billy Burnett]

13. Not sure how selling off the schools to corporate entities helps civil rights.

Civil rights should be enshrined by the public sector, and the public sector should lead the way! The private mega school corporations sure won't.

[dkf]

56. The charter school movement doesn't have to be about corporations.

It is about innovation and having flexibility. There are charter schools being run by teachers out there after all.

In the end if parents don't like the education their kids are getting at that charter school they can dump them.

[Hannah Bell]

88. it *is* about corporations: microsoft, broad's pre-fab housing corp, & walmart.

charters = licensing fees, h1b visas, shoddy workmanship, low-wage service economy.

[Iris]

96. read this if you think charter schools aren't about corporations

they didn't start out that way, but that's what they are now. And there's evidence that they don't do such a hot job either.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/11/myth-charter-schools/?page=3


My favorite story about charter schools is the one where my neighbor went to an informational meeting about getting one in our area. The PowerPoint that the Edison folks showed had spelling and grammatical errors in it.

[dkf]

110. Well instead of fighting against charter schools why not just make for profits ineligible?

Isn't that the simplest way to do things?

[immoderate]

116. Do you think that will stop the fraud?

Although, the major misconception driving this "reform" movement is that you can "automate" education, and pull star pupils off an assembly line like dohc engines.

Look at the countries who regularly clean our clocks in educational comparisons. Why don't we try what they do? Why do we think that doing the opposite will work?

--imm

[dkf]

120. I'm interested in what we can do to replicate the Asian systems.

They are the ones leading the way.

[Iris]

124. So we can increase our teenage suicide rate?

[immoderate]

130. What about the Fins?

--imm

[Starry Messenger]

117. No, the tax law that benefits them specifically mandates

for-profit entities. I guess if you have a time machine you could go back to the year 2000 and lobby congress not to pass the New Markets Tax Credit. Good luck with that. The NMTC is being used extensively for building charter schools for profit through a 39% tax credit.


http://www.impactseven.org/NMTC_FAQ.htm#Q4

]

Who benefits from the New Markets Tax Credits?

Businesses, investors, and communities will benefit from the NMTC. The NMTC program was designed to make investment capital available to businesses in qualifying low-income communities, to create jobs and spur additional economic development. The Federal Government created the 39 percent in NMTC as an inducement to private investors to open the flow investment capital into these communities. These tax credits, when considered along with the potential return on their investment in the CDE, create a substantial financial benefit for the investors as well.

As Impact Seven is a Non-Profit Organization, how will it fit into the New Markets Tax Credit Application?

Because NMTCs can only be offered to investors that purchase stock or capital in a CDE, only for-profit CDEs may facilitate NMTC transactions. However, a non-profit entity may apply for a NMTC allocation with the intention of transferring the allocation to one or more for-profit subsidiary CDEs, which is what Impact Seven has done. Impact Seven has already created one for-profit subsidiary known as the Wisconsin Impact Fund, which will be a general CDE making multiple NMTC transactions. Impact Seven anticipates, however, that it will creat a number of single-purpose CDEs set up solely for specific projects.

CDEs are Community Development Entities.

[dkf]

121. Nothing is set in stone.

I would like to see debate on this issue. I think it would be helpful.

[Starry Messenger]

128. What does that mean?

Nothing is set in stone? The NMTC has been long in use (10 years) by corporations, they are using it. Debate? Are you some kind of superhero? Do your words sway corporations? Just tell me what you mean to do at this point dfk? Do you have the power to change reality? Let us know your powerful secret to sway the will of powerful rich men. Good luck with that.

[Iris]

123. Do you think corporate america would let that happen?

The goal of the right-wing and their ilk is to privatize EVERYTHING. Eventually, they'll try even to privatize water and air use.

[Starry Messenger]

14. I didn't know Whitney Tilson was black.

Or Bill Gates. Someone ought to tell them.

[Gabi Hayes]

24. heh...remember our PM exchange about you know what....

btw, meant to send you this:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZYHxwDrjyM&feature=related

during my break last night

[Starry Messenger]

45. I've been dying to point out that all the big guys pushing reform

are actually rich WASPS. Hey cool link! I'm listening now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Bill Gates is a successful black man?

Who knew.

[Starry Messenger]

61. Arne Duncan too, I guess.

Tom Vander Ark, Joe Williams, Andy Smarick, Gov. Christie, Frederick Hess, all of the Heritage Foundation and Cato. And that's just scratching the surface. Gee, you never know what you are going to find out on DU!

[Hannah Bell]

89. the waltons & eli broad too -- didn't you know they were black? down with the people, man.

corporations are the new civil rights leaders.

[Starry Messenger]

97. Oh shit, how did I forget them?

And Davis Guggenheim and Mark Zuckerberg. Maybe it's the Secret Brotherhood of Brothers. Does that mean that the black people who oppose education reform are secretly white?

[Hannah Bell]

99. you've got it. black is white, white is black in the surreal world of ed deform.

up is down, back is front, & profits = "civil rights"

[Starry Messenger]

103. Now all I can think of is Steve Martin in "The Jerk"

Seriously though, I can scarcely think of more than about five or six black guys who are involved in this scam on a national level. It's just such a breathtaking claim.

[Hannah Bell]

104. it's propaganda, period. those rich white fucks always want to take on the

gravitas of civil rights -- once it's safely dead.

but back in the day they were singing a different tune.

[Starry Messenger]

105. I've been collecting links on companies benefiting from the New Market Tax Credit

I'm sure the promise of a 39% tax deduction on charter school loans just brought out the inner Rosa Parks in every CEO. Who knew they were such freedom fighters? :sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

106. 39%? wow, that's *some* civil right. you need an op on that one.

[Starry Messenger]

107. Oh yes indeed.

I'm definitely going to do an OP on it. http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/05/09/evil-ed-inc-the-wall-street-charter-school-connection/

It turns out that at the tail end of the Clinton administration in 2000, Congress passed a new kind of tax credit called a New Markets tax credit. What this allows is it gives enormous federal tax credit to banks and equity funds that invest in community projects in underserved communities and it’s been used heavily now for the last several years for charter schools. I have focused on Albany, New York, which in New York state, is the district with the highest percentage of children in charter schools, twenty percent of the schoolchildren in Albany attend are now attending charter schools. I discovered that quite a few of the charter schools there have been built using these New Markets tax credits.

What happens is the investors who put up the money to build charter schools get to basically or virtually double their money in seven years through a thirty-nine percent tax credit from the federal government. In addition, this is a tax credit on money that they’re lending, so they’re also collecting interest on the loans as well as getting the thirty-nine percent tax credit. They piggy-back the tax credit on other kinds of federal tax credits like historic preservation or job creation or brownfields credits.

The result is, you can put in ten million dollars and in seven years double your money. The problem is, that the charter schools end up paying in rents, the debt service on these loans and so now, a lot of the charter schools in Albany are straining paying their debt service–their rent has gone up from $170,000 to $500,000 in a year or–huge increases in their rents as they strain to pay off these loans, these construction loans. The rents are eating-up huge portions of their total cost. And, of course, the money is coming from the state.

I've been googling since I read this article, and it's a whole industry, getting these NMTC deals. Goldman Sachs has a whole division devoted to this. We must chat about it soon!

[Hannah Bell]

109. looking forward to it.

[Hannah Bell]

82. strongest advocates for reform are rich white men. very rich, very white.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gabi Hayes]

28. yes he is, and you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

try reading up on who he's thrown in with

and watch it with your freeper accusations

[ecstatic]

35. no he is not. Just because you say so doesn't make it so

Show me where Arne Duncan himself claims to be for the privatization of public schools.

[Gabi Hayes]

55. jesus....did you really type that?

there's this thing called 'inferencing'

we even teach it to our first graders!

and we're not even one of those fancy charter schools

[ecstatic]

60. Reasonable people have come to a different conclusion

than you. Including President Obama.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. LOL You're kidding, right?

Either that or you've been in a coma for a year or so.

[daylan b]

21. I think the rally went right over your head.

Isn't saying peole shouldn't be allowed to peform because you don't agree with their politics exactly what the rally is supposed to be against?

[Billy Burnett]

22. Maybe. Maybe John Legend represents the Fear aspect and not the Sanity part. eom

Imo, just more mainstreaming of the absurd pro privatization of schools wave that is washing over America.

[daylan b]

23. Yeah, it did.

Flew right over you.

You think people should be shut out because you don't agree with their views.

You are the problem the rally is making fun of.

[Billy Burnett]

31. Not a matter of him "being allowed" to perform. He was invited to play a sanity rally ...

.. while he is actively campaigning for the insanity of privatization of schools and sending public dollars to private and less effective education corporations.

Maybe it's me who gets it. ;)

[daylan b]

34. You seem to think the rally is for a political view point.

When it's actually about making fun of those who are intolerant of other view points.

It's about being open to others and realizing that demonizing the other side, like what you are doing, is closed minded.

[Billy Burnett]

40. So why isn't the KKK or skinheads on stage?

We should be open and all accepting of all positions equally? Now, that is insanity.


Cheers

[daylan b]

78. Because that's a philosophy based on hatred.

The guy isn't for kicking people out of the nation, he has a different opinion than you on how to fix a broken education system.

The fact you think comparing that to the KKK in any way is a PERFECT example of why this rally is being held to make fun of people like you.

[Hannah Bell]

84. teacher & union-bashing: also based on hatred, diviseness, scapegoating, bullying

[Starry Messenger]

86. I guess that's kinder, gentler hatred

More genteel.

[Hannah Bell]

90. yeah, they just fire them & take their pensions: nothing so horrific as slave camps.

oh, wait...

[Starry Messenger]

100. As long as teachers just wither away and die quietly and without a fuss

then no immaculate white gloves get untidy. Not a monocle out of place!

[daylan b]

111. double post

n/m

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ecstatic]

37. Exactly!!! nt

[grantcart]

80. Clearance was about 5,000 feet,lol

[Gidney N Cloyd]

25. Oh? Well, I guess fuck it, then.

Let's see what's on the cartoon channel.

[xultar]

32. No shit. Du is such a fuckinj oy stealer. Where else can we discuss this without the

Fucking downers.

[Gabi Hayes]

57. just call me Debby

and I take the credit for bringing this up FIRST!

before the offending thread was started

I apologize

[ecstatic]

62. This sort of "outrage" is what makes coming to DU

and other sites less enjoyable. Every day someone new is demonized. It gets old after a while.

[Gabi Hayes]

63. so stay away

I give you my permission

[ecstatic]

65. Or maybe you could stop

shitting on people who are helping out a good cause? He didn't have to take time out of his busy schedule to perform there. He is a grammy award winning artist and probably is responsible for the tiny bit of diversity at the rally today.

[Gabi Hayes]

67. overreact much?

he's a corporate SHILL of the highest order

charter schools are destroying public education

all you have to do is see who's lining up behind them

all the usual corporate suspects

pointing this out is not 'shitting' on Legend

sorry if you can't take the truth

[immoderate]

119. Shill or dupe?

He may think he's doing a good thing. Most people have no concept of educational dynamics. They have only their own experience.

--imm

[Hannah Bell]

91. if you don't like the thread there are plenty of cheerleader ones about. you'll feel better

on one of those.

[Hannah Bell]

85. wouldn't want politics to interfere with vapid celebrity-worship.

if you don't like the thread topic, why are you here?

there are lots of celebration threads.

[Whisp]

75. yeh, me too. I just turned the show off, cuz you know...

everything sucks all the time.

no enjoying yourself now! no no nope.

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Agreed

[Barack_America]

33. I think "sanity" requires respecting other people's viewpoints. nt

[CBR]

36. +1000.... truth nt

[Gabi Hayes]

41. so you agree that this post is a valuable contribution to the general discussion, yes?

good for YOU!

[Gabi Hayes]

43. next up....Sean Hannity!

[CBR]

44. Then Adolf Hitler... Then Pol Pot... Then BILL GATES -- SCARY!!!!!!! nt

[Barack_America]

47. Would I have commented otherwise?

[Gabi Hayes]

50. only cause I LET you

yer wlcm

now it's time for the funny

JS on

buh bye

[Barack_America]

51. Thanks, Skinner?

:shrug:

[Gabi Hayes]

59. besides inferencing skills, you might go shopping for a sense of humor

maybe?

perhaps?

I also allow you to do so

start now

[Billy Burnett]

48. Strange, what comes outta the woodwork when we try to be "open" and "accepting".

As long as we accept the absurd.

:crazy:

[Billy Burnett]

42. Just not mine. LOL

Cheers

[Barack_America]

49. No. You're more than welcome to believe that people who disagree with you should be shunned.

And I am welcome to disagree, which I did.

[Billy Burnett]

52. Then, it's all good.

:cheers: :hi:

[Gabi Hayes]

54. not everybody.... there's a difference..... perhaps shun idiots and shills?

examples of whom have been provided

and within one category Legend clearly falls

http://hudlinentertainment.com/smf/index.php?topic=6809.0

big supporter of Michelle Rhee, are ya?

[Barack_America]

64. And I'm sure you're qualified to decide which is which.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

68. Lol. Do you think they'll take away my MD or my PhD on your recommendations?

Or maybe I can just squeak by and lose my Masters of Science.

:rofl:

[Gabi Hayes]

69. did you get your ph.d for whining to the mods?

good work!

and I grew up with six kids who are all MDs now

and a few of them are above average, in terms of what you and your charter lovers would call testing intelligence

the other ones....about average, just very hard workers, never picked their noses up off the grindstone to see what was really happening in the world

sound familiar?

good company for you

[Gabi Hayes]

70. here's your next fauxtrage project

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9421233&mesg_id=9421233

another shiny object to attract your post-doc scrutiny

keep busy

[Gabi Hayes]

73. pre-emptive apology to my latest DU pal:

I apologize for getting personal

now, answer his simple question

what did you know about John Legend's connection to charter advocacy before you read this thread

thanks

will you be my doctor now?

do I get a discount cause we're BFFs?

[Lucian]

72. Except when other people's viewpoints are idiotic.

[EFerrari]

98. Does "respect" in your view involve overlooking their efforts to dismantle our schools?

That doesn't seem like respect to me. It's more like avoidance or denial.

[ibegurpard]

108. apparently

[Kurovski]

58. I respect your opinion.

[Hannah Bell]

94. it's not an opinion that legend is a charter school shill, it's a fact.

[Kurovski]

113. Is it a fact that he should not have been included?

My original post is a satire of a satire, which is too dry by far.

I know it's all wet.

Charter schools shit all over, undermine and ignore public education and mostly injects religion into a place it does not belong. Not in the U.S.

it is often used as a political tool to help rid the nation of public education, it ignores and abandons problems found in the system, it is elitist and self-survivalist by nature. Legend probably benefited in some way from it, or family did. He perhaps got his, the rest can go fish. he's not likely to view it that way.

On a personal note, i become utterly exhausted if 6 out of 10 of my posts aren't a joke. it's a health thing.

[Gabi Hayes]

127. as we're teaching our third and fourth graders right now, 'should' is a key word that always

signifies an opinion

a fact is something observable; something that can be proven correct or incorrect

it's actually been lots of fun working on this with most of them, as opposed to most of the rigid, tiresome dreck we're forced to shove down their throats in order to prepare for the ISATs, MAPP testing, weekly/monthly/quarterly assessments, and various other standardized measures of their 'learning' progress

[Pisces]

71. That is fucking ridiculous. He is a strong democratic advocate. I guess anyone

that doesn't agree with your agenda shouldn't participate?????

[EFerrari]

95. How strong can he be if he's shilling for union busting charter schools?

If it was fine for him to perform, it's fine for his associations to be noted. :shrug:

[BootinUp]

81. UnRec nt

[EFerrari]

83. I didn't know that either. n/t

[spanone]

114. last i looked, mr duncan was a democrat

[proud2BlibKansan]

118. As is the president of the Chicago teachers union

But she and Arne don't agree on much.

[Gabi Hayes]

122. so's mayor daley, so's rahm emanuel, so was strom thurmond, so was Dick Morris.

Ever heard of the DLC?

so was Hitler

or was it Charlie Chaplin?

[Gabi Hayes]

125. here's another 'dem':

andrew Cuomo, like all the other candidates running for governor, has been campaigning against the status quo in Albany. Cuomo has been promising he will not be afraid to take on the public employee unions to get state spending and taxes in line. In his campaign, Cuomo has called for a cap on state spending and freezing state employee salaries for one year as part of an emergency financial plan. He promises there will be no increases in personal and corporate income taxes, and wants to cap property taxes.

Four months ago when he introduced Rochester Mayor Robert Duffy as his candidate for lieutenant governor, Cuomo had this to say:

“The public employee unions have too much power. I don’t know how you calibrate .”

“We’re going to be tangling with public employee unions going forward,” Cuomo said.


http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/blog/2010/08/pef_endorses_andrew_cuomo.html

[Taverner]

129. Um, so?

They had Kid Rock, and he's a Republican's Republican

The point wasn't Left v Right, but stop being such a shrill harpy about it all...

That's why they included Code Pink and Medea Benjamin alongside Beck and O'Reilly.

They're all shrill harpys who only know how to amplify, not listen or even contribute useful dialogue.

I mean, shit, the Obama Admin goes on a listening tour re: HCR and Medea Benjamin and her Code Pink harpys show up to protest the war in Afghanistan. Not that I'm for the war, but there is a time and place - and this was not it. They were as useful as the Lyndon LaRouche zombies in attendance.

[Panaconda]

132. So I guess

if we are all calm and sedate about a new form cool fascismo then it's okay and all those harpy's are just harshin' the buzz of the mid-town dilettantes?

Sounds like you're okay with just about anything as long as it doesn't muss the hair.

[Taverner]

133. I'm no fan of Charter Schools, but if a rocker supports them - how does that make him the bad guy?

Especially since this rally was about sanity, not purity