Obama primary challenge? Nearly half of Dems want 2012 fight.

[Karmadillo]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/30/obama-primary-challenge_n_776443.html

WASHINGTON — Democratic voters are closely divided over whether President Barack Obama should be challenged within the party for a second term in 2012, an Associated Press-Knowledge Networks Poll finds.

That glum assessment carries over into the nation at large, which is similarly divided over whether Obama should be a one-term president.

A real Democratic challenge to Obama seems unlikely at this stage and his re-election bid is a long way off. But the findings underscore how disenchanted his party has grown heading into the congressional elections Tuesday.

The AP-KN poll has tracked a group of people and their views since the beginning of the 2008 presidential campaign. Among all 2008 voters, 51 percent say he deserves to be defeated in November 2012 while 47 percent support his re-election – essentially a tie.

Among Democrats, 47 percent say Obama should be challenged for the 2012 nomination and 51 percent say he should not be opposed. Those favoring a contest include most who backed Hillary Rodham Clinton's unsuccessful faceoff against Obama for the 2008 nomination. The poll did not ask if Democrats would support particular challengers.

more...

[Historic NY]

1. Really who is pushing that drivel......PUMAS

[Capn Sunshine]

2. Bingo

damn, let it go people...imagine if the Gore faction had kept that up during Clintons eight years.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Individualist]

27. +1

[AndrewP]

61. The anti-Clinton faction loves the conspiracy though n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

12. Not all of them.

[HughMoran]

35. Isn't it apparent?

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. I have never backed Hillary a day in my life.

:hi:

I do want, and will support a president, who at least works to legislate at least one of my ideals. If Obama grows a spine and starts doing that, he'll have my vote. If he doesn't and continues this route... I will hope mightily for another Democratic option.

[HughMoran]

64. PUMA = Party Unity My Ass

:shrug:

[alcibiades_mystery]

69. PUMA fucking losers of the worst kind

Failures and idiots.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robcon]

5. Non-whiny Hillary supporters. Like me.

n/t

[ingac70]

13. The likes of you made Reagan Pres. n/t

[robcon]

76. Huh? I'll gladly vote for Obama.

I'd rather vote for Clinton.

[readmoreoften]

Do the arguments against Obama sound like people who tow the Clinton line?

Clinton is SoS to Obama. This has nothing to do with Clinton.

[ibegurpard]

39. Indeed

I supported Obama because I figured Hillary would be the corporate sell-out

[tishaLA]

4. I like the idea of a challenge. Not because I want to vote for someone else,

but because I saw how the protracted primary season helped Democrats in 08 in terms of clarifying the stances, making the candidates better, getting voters registered, etc. Someone I saw on MSNBC this week suggested that if Feingold loses Tuesday, he might decide to mount a campaign. I'd like to see that: a campaign from a good government liberal who pushes the President. I think it'd be good in terms of the general election in 2012, among other things.

However, I doubt that only 47% support his reelection. That flies in the face of everything I have seen (i.e., his support among Democrats at ~80%)

[Pirate Smile]

8. Not when it is an incumbent POTUS. Nomination challenges make them lose - happened to Carter and

Poppy Bush.

It is not the same as an open seat. It is a recipe for disaster.

[tishaLA]

33. You may be right. I like to think both would rise to the challenge

and a campaign from someone like Feingold would end up making Obama look more moderate and more appealing to independents, especially when compared to the crowd the republicons are going to be running in 2012. The problem with the Carter-Kennedy thing, from what I have heard (I don't remember it) is that it became incredibly acrimonious; I have faith that Pres Obama and Russ have enough respect for each other--and for their differences--that it wouldn't get personal and could, instead, energize Democratic voters.

[Pirate Smile]

37. It divides the party and the other side wins. It would be a disaster.

[depakid]

46. Neither Poppy nor Carter lost because of their primary challenges.

:eyes:

Nice try though. I'm sure if the talk gets more serious we'll be hearing that scare tactic and others a lot more often.

[Nite Owl]

17. If Feingold does want to run

I'd be behind him in a nano second. He is what we need.

[ingac70]

22. He won't even win reelection in his own state...

no way he'd get any where running for POTUS.

[Nite Owl]

74. We'll have to see what the next year brings

Hopefully Obama will make some changes.If he doesn't and people see just what they elected this time (if they actually do vote for these nuts) it might be his time.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. It would be nice to have an anti-war liberal run against him.

One that would vow to end Obama's "necessary" war in Afghanistan.

[elleng]

31. 'Vows' don't work; don't you get it?

GOVERNING is DIFFICULT!

[phleshdef]

38. By 2012, anti-war will be a moot point.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. As far as this administration is concerned it's a moot point now.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

9. You'll love a Republican President in 2013. I'm sure they will be much more supportive of your

causes.

[xchrom]

16. Your fantasies get the better of you. Nt

[Pirate Smile]

28. Just going with your rhetoric.

[sufrommich]

14. Wow. Ok. nt

[ingac70]

18. Then enjoy....

getting burned at the stake under Pres. Caribou Barbie.

[davidinalameda]

19. you shouldn't laugh

guffaws will do nicely

[Motown_Johnny]

21. you are mistaking disgust for anguish

[xchrom]

53. I'm old enough to know the difference. Nt

[BootinUp]

10. No Sale. nt

[jpak]

15. Fuck that

yup

:thumbsdown:

[book_worm]

20. It won't happen so stop dreaming. Obama will be the democratic nominee and will win.

[Tesha]

44. Obama will be the Democratic nominee and will lose in a blowout. (NT)

[BlueIris]

70. Obama won't be the nominee.

Because at this point, he couldn't get elected if he bought every American a brand new Corvette for the holidays this year. And next year.

[Pirate Smile]

71. Have you been watching a lot of Fox News?

[stray cat]

23. Who do they want? And is that person capable of being more than a sound bite?

[elleng]

36. No chance, of course.

[krawhitham]

24. NEARLY half wanted Hill last time

The Pumas will never die

[emulatorloo]

25. Skeptical of polls being pushed by the Associated Press

Gallup has Obama job approval pretty high with liberal and moderate Dems.

[Motown_Johnny]

26. and of the 47% who want a fight, there are ~135 candidates

with ~1/3 of a percent support each


good luck with that

[elleng]

29. Fools, lets not be.

[JackRiddler]

30. If only Elizabeth Warren, but highly unlikely from any strong challenger.

[Angry Dragon]

32. This is what pisses me off about politics today

In 3 days we are going to have an election, no one knows how that will pan out, NO ONE!!

And already we are wondering if someone is going to run against Obama. Elections never stop it seems, before we are done with one we are already campaigning for another. No wonder we have corrupt government in this country, they always have to have a war chest and the money people have no problem filling them.

I predict the dems will have 100 Senators, 435 house members. Who is going to run against Obama??

Lets get through this election first. See how things shake out, see if Obama can really lead this country.
The House and Senate may end up with all the crazies that we dread, the country may finally see that there is no hope for them unless they get behind real politicians that care about them.

[azmouse]

34. Keep dreaming...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[sally cat]

40. "Among Democrats, 47 percent say Obama should be challenged" I don't believe that for a moment.

[JoePhilly]

45. Agree .... total BS.

[emulatorloo]

47. Gallup; Obama Job Approval among Democrats = 81% EIGHTY-ONE PERCENT.

Something is way off in AP poll.

Oct 10-24
Obama Approval Rating

DEM 81%

LIBERAL DEM 87%
Moderate DEM 79%
CONSERVATIVE DEM 72%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. Wait...what? Is this the Gallup that we like, or the one that we don't?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9360198

[emulatorloo]

55. Just pointing out that is is WAY different than this nutty poll the AP is pushing.

Associated Press seems to have polled some sort of unrepresentative group.

P.S. NOTE on that Thread about gallup: Your link is about "Likely Voter Model" - Obama approval polls does not use that model.

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. I see... so it's the one that we like.

Thanks for clearing that up. :hi:

[emulatorloo]

59. Read my reply again. This poll doesn't use the "Likely Voter Module"

The "Likely Voter Module" is used on Election Polling

This isn't an election poll, it is a Job Approval Poll.


Election Poll = Apples

Job Approval Poll = Oranges

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

[NYC Liberal]

62. It's like Fox polls. When Fox shows a decent approval for Obama,

the real number is probably higher. And whenever Fox polls showed Bush with lower approval ratings, chances are the real numbers were lower.

[leftstreet]

65. Wouldn't surprise me if the Obama Admin is putting this out themselves

Not seeing many indications Obama's planning to run for a 2nd term

Articles like these could just be fishing...

[Historic NY]

41. Of course now I see United we win, Divided we fail....Who would want that?....

[NanceGreggs]

42. Well, there you have it, folks ...

"The AP-KN poll has tracked a group of people and their views since the beginning of the 2008 presidential campaign."

One simply cannot argue with the accuracy of a "poll" this scientific, this rich in detail as to who was polled and when, this fleshed-out with the facts of the data collection process used.

A group of people ... :rofl:

The only people who give any credence to this kind of crapola are those who think an "unidentified source" is as reliable as it gets, and know what's what because their neighbour's butcher's nephew's second cousin (twice removed) said so.

Really - a group of people :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

43. Absolutely mandated...

... and even if such a venture should result in failure for the heroic individual(s) who elect such a mission, at least it will put our "progressive" President on distinct notice that he better grow a hefty set of balls and cease playing Switzerland from the start of every god-damn political negotiation. He must finally realize and accept that he's a fucking Democrat and that he is not a mediator, minister, or Captain Kangaroo, loved by all.

Without equivocation, President Obama and his feckless and timid political strategy and its execution is precisely the reason that we sit at the eve of an epic legislative catastrophe that may well deliver the second branch of the government into the hands and effective control of the most corrupt and vile criminal organization of the modern era and in our body politic, the GOP.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emulatorloo]

49. Reality Check; Obama Job Approval. Lib Dem 87% | Moderate Dem 79% | Conserv Dem 72%

Gallup Oct 18-24

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

I don't know who AP is polling, but it does not appear to be representative.

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. I have to ask you this then too... Aren't we supposed to not trust Gallup anymore??????

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9360198

[emulatorloo]

57. That thread questions "Likely Voter Model". Obama Job Approval does not use the Likely Voter Model

I agree that the Likely Voter Model is off somehow.

But this poll does not use the Likely Voter Model.

[depakid]

73. Don't trust any polling group that attempts to draw conclusions from self labelling

Especially Gallup, which quite knowingly uses this method to attempt to influence public opinion, not reflect it.

[Hekate]

50. Fools. It is a recipe for unmitigated disaster.

[Pisces]

58. This is the modus operandi for the dems. Shoot yourself in the foot.

I want to believe that repukes are behind this stupid idea, but I can't give them that much credit. Our own party is it's worst enemy.

[xchrom]

60. Recommend

[struggle4progress]

63. Only surveyed about 570 Ds nationwide, about 11 per state

Right before the 2010 midterms is an odd time to be polling folk on the 2012 primaries

You can get a summary here: http://surveys.ap.org/
37% of respondents were from the South

How the poll was conducted
The Associated Press
... This study included 1,254 adults on Sept. 17 to Oct. 7 were originally part of a random sample of Americans surveyed up to 11 times throughout the 2008 campaign ... Interviews were conducted online. The original sample was drawn from a panel of respondents Knowledge Networks recruited via random sampling of landline telephone households with listed and unlisted numbers. The company provides Web access to panel recruits who don't already have it ... http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/30/2371199/how-the-poll-was-conducted.html#ixzz13tBtQsqT

[grahamhgreen]

66. Out of Iraqistan, Public Option, Out of Slave Trade agreements, and he's unstoppable!

[gulliver]

67. I'm really not a voter worshiper.

Voters are the bosses in a democratic system, and a lot of them are just plain lousy bosses. They're fickleness, diffidence, irascibility, and ignorance bring us all down. I really haven't seen a president or candidate in my lifetime who could compare with Obama. Therefore, I have no trouble at all in blaming the few Dem voters expressing "disenchantment" for their own problems. I think any Dem who grumbles about Obama should have the decency to name an alternative or shut up. That never happens, of course.

I notice in Positive Psychology that there is this "grass is greener" idea. People are much happier in general if they don't think they have alternatives to their situation, be it their spouses, their jobs, their living conditions, etc. They are unhappy in their situation if they think there is an alternative. I think that what we have with the few (under 10% based on polling) unhappy Dems is a clear example of this principle. Many are so egotistical and, possibly, immature that they don't recognize any responsibility on their part to show loyalty to the leaders we have and to sacrifice for the team as a whole.

Some grasp at an imaginary alternative leadership scenario in their heads, filled with impossible-to-elect people doing impossible-to-achieve things. Others may not even go that far, instead merely assuming that their own inner whims must have some way to achieve satisfaction, even if they haven't thought at all about what that way might be in reality. Naturally these people feel unhappy. Their lazy thinking and/or inability to maintain team loyalty despite frustration makes them fair weather friends, unhappy company, and unreliable partners.

That's not just a put down. That's a sad fact. These folks are high maintenance. They don't realize a very simple fact: You have to give a great deal of loyalty and trust to your team or you are useless to it. It's hard to be angry with people who don't understand this, though, because they are basically blind. They have no idea they are wrong. They should think about it.

[BlueIris]

68. I'd support that. If I weren't pretty convinced it won't be necessary. nt

[BlueDemKev]

75. The ABSOLUTE worst thing we could do....

...is have a bruising presidential primary. A contested primary will weaken whoever ultimately gets the nomination. Barring something totally unforeseen, we need to quickly unite behind President Obama (and let the Republicans tear each other apart for a change).