I favor the repeal of the current healthcare law..... yes, you heard me, repeal Obamacare...

[Hawkeye-X]

in FAVOR of a much stronger and progressive health care - soemthing that'll do:

- Remove the insurance industry from the business of health care. It's apparent that health care consideration should not answer to greed.
- Ensure that the doctors would get fully paid what they are asking - no more cuts on it - it's to be fully funded and in a separate trust much like Social Security; UNTOUCHABLE THIRD RAIL.
- Single payer for each family. We pay into it every month much like we do for FICA taxes.
- Did I mention that there is no need for middlemen to decide if you're going to need that surgery or not. If it's necessary, then OK. If it's cosmetic - 80/20 - much like Medicare.
- Visual, dental, and prescription is 100% covered.
- No waiting time either. Once the law is signed, you're covered immediately.

I hope I did not scare you all. After all, I am a socialist, a Democratic socialist, like Bernie is :)

[donco6]

1. From a business standpoint, it's the only thing that makes sense.

Why pay a middleman (insurance) for access to a big pool of money, when the government already has a big pool and YOU'VE been the one creating it?

[USArmyParatrooper]

2. Single Payer isn't and never was a viable option

That being said, given the choice you favor what we had before HCR over what we have now?

Repealing HCR doesn't give you single payer or anything else you mentioned.

[janewin]

24. if single option is not a viable option

then maybe this country is not ready for real healthcare reform. I dont want my only option to be the for profit, greedy, private insurance company and if thats the only way we can get HCR, then by all means give us back the status quo. Or repeal just the mandate to buy from private insurance companies and keep the rest of the reforms :)

[sabrina 1]

26. Why is it not a viable option? For one thing it is cheaper

not to mention that every other civilized country in the world is able to do it. What makes this country different?

One thing that makes it different is, here access to good health care is based on what you can afford. This bill won't change that. Dick Cheney will still get better health care than the average American worker, because he's rich.

In all those other countries whose health care systems are so far superior to ours, Health Care is viewed as a right and people are viewed as human beings, not as commodities valued according to how much an Insurance Co. can profit from them.

We CAN do it, it IS viable, but there has to be a will among those we elect to get rid of the middlemen who have failed so abysmally to provide for the health of the American people.

The PEOPLE are ready for a National Health Care system, now they have to elect enough representatives who are working for THEM and not Big Business. That is the only reason a Single Payer system is not viable here. Corrupt, greedy Corps have taken over the health care system and they have hired our representatives to look out for THEIR interests.

The OP is correct .... we need to fire these corporations and should have done so long ago.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

40. It's not an option because corporations own & control the government

That's why. Including insurance companies. They will fight tooth and nail to prevent anything publicly funded from being used for health care in this country.

The problem isn't "big government" -- it's big business ie: corps. They own and control everything - right up to the Supreme Court. Repugs and their corprat friends want to point the finger elsewhere - at "big government" - I just heard dingbat Palin do it yesterday.

Problem's not big government. It's big corporations - like the insurance industry. And THEY are why single payer is not an option.

[Sheepshank]

48. Right....It's not like the Reps were given two options to vote on

That's not how the US political system works.

There was not a couple of options presented, and the one with the most votes carries.

It was a one time shot with only one option. It was the hail mary of punts. Obama had one shot to get something on the table, get something passed and have a base of healthcare mandates from which to work from. Obama made a choice to go with something that would act as a springboard, since there was every chance anything else would be dead in the water.

[Hannah Bell]

28. "not a viable option" - why?

[MadBadger]

29. Because you couldnt even get a majority of votes in the Senate?

Not 60 votes, you couldnt get 50 votes.

[Hannah Bell]

31. depends on how you play it. you certainly can't get them if you don't even try.

which no one, no one did.

despite the fact that a majority of the people prefer it to all other options.

despite the fact that it's cheaper & more effective -- proven.

[USArmyParatrooper]

46. It wouldn't even get ten votes, let alone 60 to break the filibuster

What is your source to claim the majority of people are for single payer?

[joe black]

90. Well lets see.

You're a vet right, then you should know about socialized medicine if you're getting care.

[joe black]

92. It was in several newspapers.

Look it up.

[Tesha]

37. You know, the funny part is that if we actually *HAD* such a system, it would be entirely viable...

...and almost certainly well-appreciated.

What *IS* impossible, though, is *GETTING* such a system because
it requires getting 60 politicians who haven't been thoroughly
bought-off by campaign contributions.

Tesha

[dionysus]

49. Bernie said it had maybe 5 senate votes.. tops. next?

[bluethruandthru]

35. If a Single Payer plan was properly presented to the American people

without the repukes lying and screaming about it 24/7 - and if we could get our repuke biased media to present facts instead of opinion and innuendo...then it would pass with not problem.
I would doubt even die hard righty congressmen and senators would be able to go against it without incurring the wrath of their constituents.

[donco6]

42. Well of course it's a viable option.

That's not even debatable. But could it be passed in our Congress? I dunno. Maybe with a fierce advocate behind it.

BWAhaha! What am I saying.

[USArmyParatrooper]

55. What color is the sky in your world?

Even Bernie Sanders said single payer might have FIVE votes in the Senate.

Which "fierce advocate" (or whichever sarcastic snipe at the President you choose) do you propose could have gotten 100% consensus among Democrats plus a couple of Republicans to go along with single payer?

Let the record show your reply to this post won't actually contain an answer to that question.

[donco6]

58. Let the record show what it must.

We never had a fierce advocate for single payer, because the PTB don't want it. So your question is moot. Single payer, however, still remains the only sensible solution to our skyrocketing health care costs. You remember sensible, right?

[USArmyParatrooper]

68. My question is NOT moot

You want to blame Obama for the country not having single payer.

Who, as President, could have gotten 100% of Dems and enough Republican detractors to pass single payer in your opinion?

The fact that you can't come up with an answer doesn't make the question moot.

[joe black]

91. Reconciliation.

But the dems where bought and sold.

[USArmyParatrooper]

95. Reconciliation? Two problems

Using Reconciliation only prevents a filibuster. It doesn't miraculously turn 5 votes into 51.

Also, Reconciliation is only a procedure that can be used when a bill is a net deficit reducer, which single payer would not be.

Try again... your eminence.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

53. Do you mean politically or economically viable?

Are you saying "it is not possible to get enough votes for single payer" or "if single payer were to be passed, it would not be a good thing"?

I think that the former is probably correct in the short term but is not a good reason not to campaign for single payer as a way of moving the political spectrum to the left and reaching a point where it ceases to be the case, while the latter is simply not true.

[USArmyParatrooper]

56. It's the former, and you *think* it's "probably" correct?

It is without a shadow of a doubt 100% correct. It's not even close.

I also believe campaigning on the completely impossible wouldn't have done a thing to move anything to the left. If anything it would have hurt the chances of any reforms being passed at all, which as it is passed by the slimmest of margins.

[donco6]

59. Well, if we never talk about it, it's a slam dunk to remain "unviable."

At least, according to your definition. Looks like a win-win for you. Attaboy!

[USArmyParatrooper]

67. I never said we shouldn't talk about single payer, and it's a "win-win" for me in what way?

Elaborate on that "win-win" comment.

[beforeyoureyes]

72. It wont' be until we stop telling ourselves we can't have what the corporations wont allow

And, stop playing this ridiculous charade of one party ping pong.

We could transform this country in the blink of an eye. But, first we have to debrief.

[joe black]

89. OMB said it is.

The OMB which is nonpartisan also said that it would save billions of dollars in the long run. Major fail dude.

[hlthe2b]

3. Single payer, universal coverage.... PERIOD

[TicketyBoo]

77. Easy to say…

Not so easy to do.

[kenny blankenship]

4. It was a travesty and it's soon to get worse.

As predicted by many, Republicans will be the ones who get to "fix it later".

[VMI Dem]

5. You would have to get Lieberman to sign off on it.

Like he did with Obama's health insurance reform.

[Hawkeye-X]

7. Not anymore. Lieberman will be 100% irrelevant as of next session

Reid is going to make some filibuster changes for the next session and Obama is backing him up for that one.

With time, filibuster will be a relic, and will never return as Republicans will become a confirmed permanent minority. Colorado is already showing that the state Republican Party has gone downhill, under 10% threshold to remain a Colorado major party for the next 4 years and they'll have to fight to get on the ballots again. American Constitution will be a major party, and a major joke too. Xenophobic is not going anywhere.

Oh yeah, and can't wait to see the landlords raise rent on those jokers - because they would not be a major business influence anymore and there's no reason to "subsidize" their rents anymore.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. Replacement is not repeal

[Hawkeye-X]

Yeah well, you gotta think like a Freeper for that one.

Sorry about that, but I agree with your terminology. Replacement is a better word, but in this case, I'm just making an example.

[LoZoccolo]

8. Why is it necessary to tear down the work of others in order to get this?

If you want this, just make sure enough people want it as well, and know who to vote for in order to get it. There's really no need to alienate the people who benefit from Obamacare in order to get something that benefits more people.

[Hawkeye-X]

10. Aha!

You fell for it!

[LoZoccolo]

13. You used confusing language.

You didn't say that it would only be repealed if your new bill passed.

[cbdo2007]

9. They won't be able to repeal it. They don't have the votes.

So even though I know you kind of mean this post "tongue in cheek", we know it's really more of just a dream to you.

[lunatica]

11. The good news as that all this can be done by building on what we have

That's the beauty of what Obama got us. In a couple of years Congress will decide everyone over 50 can have Medicare and then slowly, maybe too slowly, we'll get a health care system that covers everyone through our taxes.

[Hawkeye-X]

14. Too long to wait for most people who need care and don't want to pay through the nose

My dad recently applied for SSDI and got approved. He just got his Medicare card at age of 63 (two years early). He had battled cancer (it's documented in the Cancer Support Group), and the insurance covered about 65% of the bills, and he's still paying for it. He's already looking through Part D.

Mom is 62, and still has to have her own insurance, and pay through the nose for it. She is still working part time at her own hours as a consultant.

I'm glad the HCR actually removed the donut hole, but for many it's too late.

I just wish we had the public option. Maybe it's not too late before the mandatory requirement kicks in. I would be pleased if they could remove the war from their budget and use it to improve on the reform, and they need to remove the insurance industry from the decision factor.

[Hannah Bell]

23. medicare is going to be cut.

[w8liftinglady]

12. as coincidence would have it-my recently published editorial

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9384747

[Egnever]

15. I favor repealing the constitution!

And making me King! With no waiting time....

[TBF]

16. Medicare for all -

the only sane and humane choice. We are the only modern democracy without it. The best part is that the framework is already in place, just remove the age restriction and let everyone buy in (I would agree with sliding fees dependent upon income or lack thereof). We've made the insurers and pharma companies rich enough.

[TicketyBoo]

78. This is what makes sense,

and what I said right from the beginning of the discussion.

I wrote to both my Senators, the Blue Dog and the Republican. Told them it would be cheaper to do Medicare For All because the bureaucracy is already in place.

But my Blue Dog was an executive in a health insurance company. Bought and paid for. And, of course, the Republican wasn't about to break ranks.

[Thor_MN]

17. Single payer for each family. We pay into it every month much like we do for FICA taxes.

For sake of discussion, how would you account for single, childless people? They are already paying for the education of other's children, should they be paying for their healthcare as well?

[Spike89]

54. They are NOT "paying for the education of other's children"

They are paying for the education of their own society. The word is "we". We need a society that is educated for a long list of reasons. We need roads. We need security (including police, military, fire, health, retirement) not because you or I individually pay for it, but because that is what a society should be. Oh, and it isn't just because it feels better, it also works better. When people know that they can someday retire without having to eat cat food, they work harder. When people are educated and guaranteed the basics of life, they are less likely to become "outsiders" and prey upon the economically stable.
Stop paying for "other peoples children" and you'll just have to pay that money to the police department so they can shoot those uneducated, sick, and desperate kids when they get old enough to threaten you in your tax-haven sanctuary.

[TicketyBoo]

79. Yes.

Because, like public education, public health care benefits society as a whole.

[spanone]

18. repeal it and it's the end of any kind of healthcare reform....

[ehrnst]

33. It's 19 years average between health care reform efforts. It'll be another 19 years at least

if this one tanks.

[kenny blankenship]

73. The current "system" can't last ten years. That's why it was necessary to rush in w faux reform

with a govt mandate and subsidies to the Insurance Cartel, to preserve its basic inequities before an angry public blotted it out forever.

[WillowTree]

19. "If it's cosmetic - 80/20 - much like Medicare." Where do you get shit like that?

[stray cat]

20. Good luck with that

[JTFrog]

21. I favor not using right wing terminology for Democratic legislation.

Especially terminology that started out as racist right wing horseshit.

[lunasun]

25. exactly

[AndrewP]

47. Agreed!

[Number23]

64. Thank you

:fistbump:

[SidDithers]

83. +1...nt

Sid

[BzaDem]

22. But of course, that isn't the question. The question is would you favor repeal with no new law.

[maryf]

27. Medicare for all!

K&R

[Gravel Democrat]

30. what we got isn't what we thought it was gonna be

[ehrnst]

32. The likely scenario - it will be repealed by Republicans, who will simply roll back the clock. (nt)

[TicketyBoo]

81. They will

have to overcome a presidential veto.

[marmar]

34. I agree.....but I hate the term "Obamacare". It's a right-wing meme.

nt

[TicketyBoo]

82. Some day

he will be proud to have it named after him. He may already feel that way. I kinda do.

[Vinca]

36. I agree with you a million per cent.

Health care could be so simple and stress free if we were all automatically covered and it was paid for by a tax automatically taken out of income or tacked onto a commodity or both. The current law is idiotically complex with tons of weasel clauses for big insurance to continue raping and pillaging the populace. Bernie's got it right.

[LWolf]

38. So do I.

Universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health CARE.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Unvanguard]

39. As long as we BOTH repeal "Obamacare" and pass single-payer.

The trouble is that what's on offer is one without the other...

[grahamhgreen]

41. Yes. But all we need to repeal is the mandate. The rest is not so bad.

[TicketyBoo]

84. Mandates are really essential.

Everybody has to share the cost, or the whole program comes crashing down, leaving us with what we have right now.

Doing away with mandates means doing away with the program entirely. It can't work without mandates, which is why they're there.

[grahamhgreen]

88. A mandate to buy private insurance insures trillions to big insurance. They

Will use this money to repeal all of the good aspects of reform.

A tax for singlw payer or a public option is OK.

Removing the mandate would remove the power of the big insurers who profit from denying care.

The sooner they come crAshing down, the better for single payer and the public option.

[TicketyBoo]

96. If everybody's going to have health insurance

(and they should), then everyone should pay to get the costs down. There is still Medicaid for those who can't afford to pay.

I would have preferred Medicare For All, but that was not on the table. It was either mandates or nothing, and I think this beats nothing.

Having mandates was the only way to get the cost of premiums down. Otherwise, everyone would just opt out until they actually needed health care, and that is certainly a no-go.

[Tatiana]

43. I would just amend the legislation to add the public option. n/t

[Billy Burnett]

44. Move to Cuba.

Albeit a poor country (under egregious US extraterritorial sanctions), but, that's the system they have.

A sure sign of the lack of democracy in Cuba. As all Americans know, a world class universal national health care system has to be forced on an unwilling population. :sarcasm:

[Lugnut]

45. Medicare for all.

Insurance companies add no value to the process.

[Uzybone]

50. "Obamacare" is RW terminology

deigned to make everything the government does with suspicion.

One day even some avowed socialists will realize that they should play by the GOP rules.

[Turborama]

80. Yep! And an unoriginal term, as well. They called Clinton's health care plan of 1993 "Hillarycare"

"Government takeover" is another one they used to use then.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_hillarycare_mythology

[TicketyBoo]

85. I think that

it's a compliment. I know they don't mean it that way, but some day it will be a source of pride for Obama and his supporters (us).

[dionysus]

51. sure, works for me... how do we get the votes for it?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

52. Teabaggers agree, to a point

Repeal Obamacare, so it can be replaced with something better.

(here's where we part paths)

Then, vote down every plan that is better.

:hi:

Single-payer is the best option, but it doesn't have a chance. Our bought-and-paid-for Congress won't be allowed by the insurance execs to pass it. Our centrist president won't push for it, might even veto it.

And the republicans are coming to town in force. Their majority in the Senate might increase from 40 to 45, ensuring that no faux-filibuster can be defeated.

[Yavin4]

57. It's Going Take An Entire New Generation of Political and Media Leaders to Get Single Payer

Otherwise, you're just indulging yourself in a fanatasy. The media won't let the truth about single payer be told. Sarah Palin's death panels got more media attention than the ban on prior conditions. Any media that does that won't let any sane debate happen on single payer.

Obama got the best possible solution that you can get on healthcare in this country out of that congress, and that's a fact.

[prolesunited]

60. I really don't the that's what the GOP has in mind

when they talk about repeal.

[Telalim]

61. That ship has sailed. We have our individual mandate to buy corporate insurance

We have to learn to live with it, for better or for worse.

[donco6]

63. Why?

The government is supposed to work FOR us. Where did we get sidetracked with this "I guess we have to live with it" philosophy?

[Selatius]

86. Right around the time the Supreme Court said it's OK to buy our elections?

That would be my guess, but really, we're far away from the idea that "the government works for us," and it's been that way for a long time. I mean, we're to the point where about 50 cents per dollar goes to war or war preparation now in terms of what we pay in income taxes, excluding payroll taxes.

[Raksha]

62. I agree with you, and you didn't scare me at all.

I'm another Democratic socialist.

[ipaint]

65. The health care reform will die it's own death.

Jobs aren't coming back. Poverty is increasing. Premiums are guaranteed to keep rising. Most people won't be able to afford the unsubsidized premium never mind deductibles and co pays and as a nation the weight of for profit industry greed will sink it.
The amount of people that are going to be enrolled in medicaid alone will be staggering. We have at least decade of austerity coming. The there is those pesky tax cuts for the rich that won't go away.

Do the math.

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. Tinkerbell says clap louder!! n/t

[DFW]

69. From the surrender at Appomattox to the signing of the Civil Rights Bill

It took exactly one century.

I figure if we get universal health care in anything under that, we'll be lucky.

Of course, by then, we'll all probably be learning Mandarin, since the Republican bankrupting of
our country will have necessitated selling our entire land mass to the Chinese.

One of my daughters has already left the USA to take a job here in Europe (she is a dual citizen).
The other one loves living in Manhattan, but if things deteriorate, she still has that German passport
to fall back on. The 340 million of my countrymen who don't have that option might not be willing to
wait that century for justice in our health care laws.

[blindpig]

70. Mediare for all

nothing else will do.

[beforeyoureyes]

71. Mandate to buy a shitty expensive corporate product that you can't use when you need it

No thanks

This bill is all about profit above people.

Mandated enslavement to the corporate insurance leeches and big pharm.

It's sick. No matter whose name is on it or what letter rubber stamps it.

[Hekate]

74. That would be Obamacare from the Demoncrat Party, right?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Is there some reason for using the copyrighted terminology from the GOP?

[Drunken Irishman]

75. You mean Bernie Sanders who voted for 'Obamacare'?

And what the fuck is up with calling it Obamacare? Do you normally get your buzzwords from Republicans?

:eyes:

[JTFrog]

76. I'm with Robert Gibbs on this one. A little confused.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/briefing-white-house-press-secretary-robert-gibbs-32410

Q. How many of the Democrats -- of the 219 Democrats who voted for “Obamacare” have invited the President to campaign for them in their districts this fall?

MR. GIBBS: I don't have a political schedule in front of me, Lester.

Q. Since not one of the Republicans in the House voted for “Obamacare,” and 32 Democrats voted against --

MR. GIBBS: Do you mean -- I'm sorry, I'm confused. Do you mean by that the law that the President signed yesterday?

Q. “Obamacare,” yes.

MR. GIBBS: Okay, I just was -- I didn't know if that was the Internet vernacular or the name of the bill, Lester. I was a little confused.

In the midst of fairly serious questions about the middle east and healthcare, Lester chimes in and gets quite a few laughs from the rest of the room. Who's Lester? Lester Kinsolving - World Nut Daily. Go figure. :eyes:

[TicketyBoo]

87. Some day

if not now, we will all be proud to have it called Obamacare. This is going to work, and if it doesn't, it will be tweaked until it does. Baby steps, just like Social Security and Medicare.

[Drunken Irishman]

94. Agree

[Pisces]

93. Well, I'm sure that is exactly what you would get if the healthcare bill is

repealed. Good luck with utopia.