This could be a brilliant move by the Dems

[Hamlette]

1. It is STILL Bush's war. He can't blame us for squat.

2. We couldn't win anyway.

3. The Dems can vote against this funding bill, make the GOP pass it.

4. We are only funding it until October. FOUR MONTHS. Big freaking deal. If this latest thing can work it would be better for Iraqis. I do not think it will work but I'm willing to give it until September.

I know the media are saying this is a cave on our part, a win for Bush, blah blah but since when did we listen to them?

For those of you who were not here, it took us 5 long YEARS to end the war in Vietnam after a majority of Americans were against it. If we can end it it two, it is a huge win for all of us.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. US troops are going to die.

:shrug:

[snappyturtle]

5. Yes. n/t

[movonne]

7. and thousands of Iraq people....

[Beelzebud]

2. Keep telling yourself that...

[ecstatic]

3. Here we go. LMAO

I guess threads like this are crucial to avoiding cognitive dissonance. Carry on!

[moodforaday]

39. I thought the OP was being sarcastic,

but you have a better point.

[stevedeshazer]

4. Okay, what move?

:shrug:

[acmavm]

6. No, it is Dems with their hands out to Corporate America. I said that

before in a previous post. It's as true now as it was then.

Unless you have a whizbang idea about how the secret trade deal was such a wonderful thing as well.

[wordpix]

33. If you're right, we're screwed big time. We have to throw the corporate monkey off our backs

[malaise]

8. I'm very upset but

#3 will put the occupation squarely in Rethug hands. Dems should boycott the vote.

[EFerrari]

9. No, it can't be brilliant and people keep dying. n/t

[waiting for hope]

10. Well.....my husband

said at dinner tonight - now that the whole damn funding stinking shit pile is off the table for the moment.....IMPEACHMENT proceedings can begin. I kinda liked that. :evilgrin:

[peacebird]

21. i *like* the way your hubby thinks!

[waiting for hope]

31. I do too!

;)

[AnOhioan]

11. It IS a big freakin deal,,,,,,for the soldiers and their families

Who are living with the possibility of losing their lives or the lives of their loved ones.....on a freakin DAILY basis.

[liberal N proud]

12. Big freaking deal?

Billions of dollars lost and more importantly, UNKNOWN number of lives lost or torn apart.

Big freaking deal? That is HUGE deal my friend.

[Wiley50]

13. Who sold you the Lemonade Stand franchise?

We've been sold out

That's all there is to it

[Individualist]

14. Oh yeah, committing political suicide is a brilliant move!

:eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. There'll be pie in the sky when you die. New Dem theme song.

[scarletwoman]

35. Perfect! (nt)

[peacebird]

16. ok - so IF all dems vote against this bill and the repukes pass it - somehow this is good?

It's a crappy bill. It's a total giveaway to bush. Our troops are being screwed without a kiss. and somehow it is good?

Look - I'm all about the silver lining and Pollyanna but there is no amount of lipstick that will help this pig.

[Big Pappa]

17. Nope

you have to keep Bush's feet to the fire.

[leftchick]

18. I want what you are smoking

:eyes:

[StefanX]

19. Yeah

Just like:

-- voting for the Iraq War in the first place

-- voting for the Patriot Act

-- voting to get rid of habeas corpus and the Magna Carta

-- voting to put that anti-abortion asshole on the Supreme Court

Totally brilliant. It shows:

-- Democrats are strong -- strong enough to stand up to the weakest President in history, strong on defense, strong enough to protect us against the terrorist boogeymen

-- Democrats have principles and stand up for what they believe in. Vote Dem, give money to Dems, put them in office and they'll watch out for your interests

I am so sick of the Democratic Party caving in all the time.

It must be fun to be a Republican.

[stevedeshazer]

20. Am I the only one who has NO IDEA what this thread is about?

Is this the DU version of Bohemian Grove?

Is it too much to ask the original poster to explain what the hell this is all about?

[MissWaverly]

34. It's about the Dems pulling domestic funding & timelines

from the funding bill just like GWB asked them too. The howls you hear are people who want a real change in stay the course
idiocy in the Iraqi Occupation/civil war.

[elocs]

22. Your ideas are a tough sell here.

There are so many here who are frustrated that the Democratic leadership does not do exactly as they believe they should and when, but the problem is they have no where else to go. They can only vent and rant about Iraq and impeachment.

[peacebird]

30. we DO have other places to go. If every base dem who is furious supported a third party candidate

.... THINK ABOUT IT.

We can do more than rant and vent. We can VOTE. Like I told Pelosi's office today - WE GAVE HER THAT PRECIOUS GAVEL AND WE CAN TAKE IT AWAY.

Do NOT take my vote for granted. The dems rcvd a HUGE amount of money and sweat equity from the BASE. They are FOOLS to ignore us, and you are utterly wrong when you state we have no recourse other than "venting and ranting"

[elocs]

48. It's a 2 party system. That's life. Didn't anybody learn from 2000?

All of those idealistic Nader voters who could not bring themselves to vote for Gore.
What harm could there be in doing that? We certainly have learned "what harm" the hard way. Going with a third party, how many years or decades would you be willing to cede power to the Republicans as the Democratic vote is split. Not split in two either, but most likely the left wing splintering off. I'm a Democrat and this board is the Democratic Underground and I will stick with my party even if they do not jump and dance to my tune.

[peacebird]

52. if the democratic party has abandoned me and my beliefs then they do not get my vote

I no longer vote for any DLC candidate. Period. Loved the Big Dawg but hate NAFTA.

DLC is Repuke lite.

If I wanted to vote repuke I would.

What part of taking control of our party is it you don't get? How long should we let the Dems disappoint/wimp out/cave before we give our VOTE and money to a group that supports what we believe in?

It is a Democracy after all. If the Democratic party wants to vote against my wishes, they can. They just can't expect my money, or my volunteering on campaigns or election day, or my vote.

[elocs]

54. Life is about choices and consequences.

If you are ready to live with the consequences of your choice, then that's up to you. I am a life long Democrat and I will give them more than 5 months in power before talking about abandoning them for a powerless 3rd party just to send them a message and help elect a Republican.

[peacebird]

57. last time I checked elections were a while away..... why not MAKE THE POINT?

[elocs]

61. On the other hand, it's only been 5 months since the Democrats took power.

I'm willing to be more patient with them before I get bent out of shape. It just might be that they know something more than I do. I am not privy to everything they know.

[peacebird]

64. thinking like that sold a lot of people on the war. Many folks went along because "they are privy

to secret information, there must be something there that I don't know"

[peacebird]

58. last time I checked elections were a while away..... why not MAKE THE POINT?

[Individualist]

43. "no where else to go"... Keep deluding yourself if it makes you happy.

As for me, I'll write in Kucinich in '08.

[elocs]

46. Ala Nader 2000. A lesson not learned. I'm sure the Republican candidate would encourage you.

Don't delude yourself. Either a Democrat or a Republican will be the next president. Guaranteed.

[Individualist]

53. You think Kucinch is an Independent???

:crazy:

[elocs]

55. If you cast a presidential vote for him rather than the Democratic candidate it's the same thing. nt

[Individualist]

56. Bull shit!

Kucinich is a democrat. Save the spin attempts for those who are foolish enough to fall for them.

And for the record, I'll vote for whomever I damn well please. It won't be a DLC stooge.

[elocs]

59. Nobody said you couldn't vote for who you please.

It's a simple fact that in the general election if you do not cast a vote for the Democratic candidate then it can only help the Republican. Send a message, vote your conscience, but don't call it bullshit.

Also, I am a big "D" Democrat. I bet that Kucinich is too.

[BootinUp]

23. It is depressing

but the facts are pretty much as you lay them out. The Dems are multitasking and trying to pick their fights. They have surmised that the surge/Petraus play has forced them to delay the final battle due to lack of support from across the aisle. I heard that Bush must prepare reports on various facets of the war/rebuilding effort to get the funding, this will be additional ammo to use in the final draw.

[yurbud]

24. I have the sick feeling this is the inside dope, with only one flicker of hope: 4 months

The short leash means Bush will fall further and have less power.

Although it makes me wonder how weak Bush has to be before they push him over.

[DearAbby]

25. We are only funding it until October.

FOUR MONTHS. Big freaking deal.

:wtf:

Tell that to those who will be mourning the loss of a loved one, in the next four months.

[TwilightGardener]

26. No--the Repubs will end up ending the war on THEIR terms, and

take away the credit from the weak do-nothing Democrats, and then they'll set up one of their own in the WH in '08, since the issue will be neutralized.

[peacebird]

38. bing-bing-bing!!!!! We HAVE a WINNER.... You are so correct.

The dems have not adapted. They seem not to realize that the bush admin do NOT play by the old rules.

[TwilightGardener]

47. Yep--this "September" crap the Repubs have been spewing

is a heads-up that they are going to start to at least "pretend" to wind down the war when the Petraeus report comes in--they'll say, well, we gave it time to work and it didn't, so now we'll do X and Y--and it will PASS, veto-proof, and the 'Pugs will be just fine. BushCo is already trying plan B's, almost in secret. They're reconsidering implementing the recs from the Iraq study group (diplomacy, regional framework, etc) and now today word comes that they might enlist UN help to take over at some point. Something fishy is going on.

[Horse with no Name]

27. This isn't a chess game

Somebody's mother/father/sister/brother/aunt/uncle/husband/wife/friend dying to make a point is not a brilliant strategy.

[Dr.Phool]

28. !

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[stevedeshazer]

29. WHAT MOVE?

Jesus fucking christ

[moodforaday]

42. This one

Dems set war bill without Iraq timeline - Yahoo! News
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070521/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq

Or just imagine all your representatives bending over all at the same time.

[stevedeshazer]

50. Thanks

How the hell would I know from the original post

[rwheeler31]

32. We are all upset, but you may be right.

Let them have the ball and watch them fumble.

[moodforaday]

45. Have you ever seen

or read about one side winning a significant conflict, or a war, by stepping back and letting the other side "fumble"? Here's a couple of Bush's latest "fumbles":


Bush Anoints Himself as the Ensurer of Constitutional Government in Emergency
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x936590

Bush could double (combat force in Iraq) by Christmas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2854822

He's getting weaker by the hour, I tell ya! Almost swooning already!!

[spanone]

36. September will be no different.

[moodforaday]

37. You forgot to include

this:

:sarcasm:

[Lint Head]

40. Bush is responsible for keeping the troops in harms way.

I want to see Bush, Cheney and Rove marched out of the White House in handcuffs. Government moves slowly. These criminals cannot run away from this if 'We the People' do not let them. In or out of office. :dem:

[mmonk]

41. Sure.

Brilliant? Since the election, we've gotten an escalation of the conflict or occupation. No change in overall direction. I'd like to see it start changing in the other direction or at least an indication.

[muntrv]

44. Yes, it wasn't until Nixon got the US into Cambodia that Congress finally

started demanding a pullout from Vietnam.

[MGKrebs]

49. OK, if you don't have Top Secret clearance, don't read this post.

Don't tell the bad guys, but...

- We are in the midst of a troop surge
- We have the largest naval presence in the Persian Gulf since 2003.
- Iran captured 15 British sailors
- Lebanon is burning

Falwell may have just missed The Big Show.

[LiberalFighter]

51. Pelosi and Reid or their stand-ins should remind the media on their failure regarding the war

[leftofthedial]

60. I call bullshit

This illegal occupation (it is NOT a "war" by any definition) will be the problem (and a much worse problem by 18 months from now) of whomever follows king george.

The Democrats in Congress--from the IWR, to the Patriot Act, to this latest gutless "cave-in"--are clearly bush's *accomplices* in the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. They have shown zero meaningful opposition. Indeed, the most generous possible explanation for their votes is that they are using the deaths of thousands of our soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for cynical political purposes.

If they think they can run in 2008 on any notion of opposition to the illegal occupation of Iraq, they are sadly mistaken. They already lied about that in 2006. No one will believe them this time.

[AtomicKitten]

62. you may be frosting a turd - but kudos to you for looking for a silver lining

n/t

[LWolf]

63. Brilliant.

Brilliantly inept. Brilliantly irresponsible. Brilliantly unaccountable to voters. Yes, that's it.

There's always someone to spin bad decision making into something that sounds upbeat. Someone's always looking for sugar to sweeten the lemons. There really is no sugar for this one, though. Just a cancer-causing chemical sweetener, with a really nasty aftertaste.

I'm doing the math, and my figures are different than yours. I believe it's been a little more than 4 long years since my first demonstration opposing the current debacle in Iraq.

The Senate approved the Iraq War Resolution in October of 2002. This march to war was approved then. It will be 5 years in October. I started communicating my opposition at that time.

We invaded in March of '03. How is that "only 2 years?"