How high does gas have to go in order to make buying a hybrid car economically feasible?

[Poiuyt]

Most hybrids are several thousand dollars more expensive than their gas counterpart (except the Prius of course, which only comes in a hybrid). The more expensive gas becomes, the more feasible it would be to spend that extra several thousand dollars and buy that hybrid. Has anyone figured out the approximate cross-over point whereby it becomes practical to spend the money?

There are obviously many factors in determining if a hybrid would be cost effective, such as the difference in MPG between the gas and hybrid models, the current cost of gas, how long you keep the car, whether you drive more in the city or highway, etc. I'm just looking for estimates.

[physioex]

1. Hybrids are great......

But there are many economical cars that get wonderful gas mileage and simpler to maintain. Ofcourse the real solution is a transporation policy centered around mass transit not hybrids. Ofcourse in this country it will never be feasible to do without the automobile like Europe. However we can work towards intermittent steps like park and rides.

[thunder rising]

7. 540 mi/wk...I love my Corolla

It does get very close to the 41 mi/gal. My drive is straight down the turnpike at 70+mph. I pat "Zippy's" trunk every time I fill it up with 11 gal after 4 days. $17K out the door. I owned a VW Passat 4 Motion and the feel is very similar. Solid.

[Matsubara]

2. There is no need to buy a hybrid with their toxic batteries and high price tag

Toyota Yaris
34 mpg city / 40 mpg highway


Honda Fit
31 mpg city / 38 mpg highway


Toyota Corolla
32 mpg city / 41 mpg highway


Or if you're broke like me, you could consider some of the even MORE fuel-efficient cars from past years:



Geo Metro

Better than 50 mpg highway



ALL of these cars are standard combustion engine vehicles.

If the industry wanted to, and more buyers gave a damn, they could put tons of cars getting better than 45 mpg on the road and make a HUGE difference, and without all the problems associated with huge, toxic battery packs.

That's not to say I'm anti-hybrid, but aside from the price tag, the hybrids do have drawbacks, and these cars are excellent options for people on a budget who would still like to reduce their fuel consumption.

[elocs]

5. I have a new Scion xA which is close in gas mileage to the Yaris and Fit.

There are gas powered vehicles available today for anybody who wants to buy one. The same cannot be said for hybrids, whose price will go up do to supply and demand. So although more people may want hybrids, fewer will be able to afford them for now.

[Strelnikov_]

9. "without all the problems associated with huge, toxic battery packs":

What problems? More toxic than the gasoline saved?

"the hybrids do have drawbacks"

What drawbacks, other than price? Also, all of the cars you present are not in the same class size wise as the current crop of hybrids.

[Matsubara]

10. I'm not saying hybrids are bad. But they are not a perfect solution.

They cause more pullution than regular cars during their production. You can argue that the reduced pollution during their use makes that worthwhile, and that's fine, but again, a LOT of people can't afford them.

And what does size class have to do with it? Those cars are quite adequate in size. I've ridden in a Prius and it was no roomier than any of these models, including the Metro which has plenty of fold-down cargo space.

I hope people will save gas in any way they can, within their means. Do you think these cars are inferior to the hybrids?

[Strelnikov_]

14. Yes, they are inferior to the current class of hybrids in size and performance

which is a consideration to most on US travel ways. IMHO, of course.

Are they a good option, yes. Are they inferior, yes.

A hybrid powerplant in the size class of cars you cited would yield 60 mpg+, or a 50% gain over an ICE only powerplant. In a few more years, when gas is being rationed or is $8/gal, those extra 20 mpg will look pretty good.

The future of personal transportation is the HEV->PHEV->EV. We can no longer afford the inefficiencies of the ICE only powerplant. The future is electric.


"Prius and it was no roomier than any of these models"

I have also. I do not agree with your statement.

[Matsubara]

16. Smaller is not "inferior"

And seriously, the Prius is not a roomy car.

I will not argue performance, because I'm sure the Prius would outperform these, especially the Metro, but my Metro was still quite adequate to my needs and had no problem in reaching highway speeds in reasonable time.

MPG near 60 is quite easily attainable with ICE's but the car makers are not interested in making cars with lower profit margins, so they push the expensive SUVs and hybrids.

BTW, how is 60+ MPG "50% better" than the Metro's 50+ mpg?

Have you driven the Metro? Are you aware that the cargo space in a Metro is significantly more than in a Prius?

I would agree that there are pluses to driving a Prius, again, if you can afford it.

But I disagree that high MPG ICE vehicles are "inferior". If the auto industry would sell more of them at reasonable prices, we'd be in much better shape today. There is no reason why they can't make new 45 MPG+ ICE vehicles with a retail price of around $8-10,000, but they don't want to, again, profit margins.

But here in Japan, there is a wide array of microcars that get great mileage and produce low emissions in the price range of $7500~11,000. And good-condition late models in this class (2-3 years) can be easily found for $4000 or less. I was shocked at how cheap cars were when I got here.

[Strelnikov_]

17. Then we are in disagreement

Oh, just called my bro, owned a Metro in the day, now owns a Prius. No comparison in size and performance.


I do agree smaller is not inferior, but it is also not apples to apples.

[leftofthedial]

3. gas could cost a trillion dollars a gallon

and I still wouldn't be able to buy a new car

[physioex]

4. A new car???

I have never in my decades of driving ever bought a new car. I have only lived on hand me downs. Assuming you are a motorist and depending on the car you drive, there must be some point when it would be cheaper to sell a gas guzzler and buy a used economy car. If it is not true for your particular case, it is true for a majority of the motorists.

[leftofthedial]

6. I meant "new" to me. If you can find a used car for under . . .

2, twenty-five, forty, five, seven . . . two dollars and forty-seven cents

I'll buy it. I doubt it will get better mileage than my 93 Saturn though.

[frazzled]

8. If you're thinking in terms of personal cost savings ...

then I don't know if you're ready for a hybrid. Not that there are not savings. We bought a Prius in early 2006 for $23,000 (base price plus side airbags option). We received a $3,000 hybrid tax credit (not deduction, but $3,000 right off the top of our taxes) at the end of the year, bringing the verhicle price to $20,000. We average 48-49 miles per gallon. (In the winter, it's a bit less; in the warm months, we average more like 51 or 52 mpg). And despite the comments by a poster above, there is no special maintenance needed for this car. You get oil changes and tune ups just like any other car. That's it.

So why do I say you're not in the market for a hybrid if you're thinking about it in terms of possible dollar savings? Because that is not what it is about. It's not the savings to you: it's the savings to society and the environment. By driving a hybrid, you will use close half the gas of a comparable vehicle. If everyone did that, we would have no need for foreign oil. Just as important, you will be putting 80% fewer emissions into the air: cleaner air in our cities, less asthma for children.

Those are the real savings: they are savings for society. If it happens to save you at the gas pump, too, all the better. We love our hybrid car. It may not be fancy, but we don't feel guilty when we have to drive.

Edited to say: All this said, don't go out and buy a hybrid just to get better mileage, save on gas, or any of the reasons I stated above unless you need a new car anyway. It takes energy to produce a new car, so you have to factor that in. We bought one because our old Toyota was 12 years old; frankly, we would have kept driving it, but we had our choice of putting in a new mechanism on the automatic shifting unit for $500 (about all the car was worth) or continuing to use a plastic spoon from Steak 'n Shake to put the car into gear. It was time.

[Strelnikov_]

11. Why does no one analyse the feasibilty/practicality of an Acura, BMW, etc.

People pay premiums for those cars. Yet hybrids are only validated if they are 'cost effective'. I guess minimizing liquid fuel consumption is not an adequate reason for paying a premium.

Funny.

[Matsubara]

13. Everyone has different priorities, I guess. If I had 100 million dollars...

...I STILL would drive an inexpensive economy car. There are all kinds of other things I would rather spend my money on.

My "dream car" would just be a loaded new Honda Civic with a 5-speed. It doesn't get any better than that. I don't want a big, cumbersome boat of a car with big pillows and tons of gadgets, and I sure as hel don't want an SUV. I want a nice, tight, nimble car that lets me feel the road, is fun to drive and doesn't waste gas or pollute too much.

Actually, my dream car in Japan is this one:





This awesome microvan gets 37 mpg city, 42 highway.

Unfortunately, it's not sold in the US.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. And I love the little tiny cars that they have in Japan

They'd be perfect for a single person like me, and they must get awesome gas mileage.

Another option is a scooter.

[physioex]

20. Ummm....

Most of those cars are bought buy those who are "finacially" well off. I mean come on a 50K plus car. If you can afford the payment and insurance on a BMW, $4 gas is no sweat. This is for the average person....

[lutefisk]

12. That sounds like an algebra problem.

Now I know why I needed to pay attention in algebra class. At least I think...

Something like a Corolla can be had for under $15,000, well equipped and getting excellent mpg. Emissions, battery issues, etc. aside, it would take quite a while to make up the difference in fuel costs. What the break even point is for different gasoline prices and miles driven shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.

[Initech]

18. I already spent some time figuring it out today.

I took three cars I'm interested in buying - the Dodge Avenger, the Toyota Prius, and the Honda Civic Hybrid.

I added up the amount of money I'd spend on gas per year to the amount of money the car payments are.

Guess which one came out ahead?

The Civic Hybrid by about $1500 / year.

The Prius was about $1300 / year.

I'm going with the Prius.

[gatorboy]

19. Let's not forget maintenance.

Out here in the boonies it would be hard to find many mechanics that could reliably work on a hybrid (You should've seen the look I got bringing in a Subaru to a few places!).

[Blue Belle]

21. Volkswagon TDI Beetle...

Gets 45 MPG and can run on Biodeisel... and it's in my price range.

[kysrsoze]

22. Hybrid diesels will have ridiculously high mileage - they're coming.

A number of major manufacturers are working on them. Common-rail diesels in German cars already get great mileage when compared to gas engines, and the particulates problem has been solved. Before we go fully electric, I'd love to own a hybrid diesel so I can stomp on the accelerator without feeling guilty.

[gravity]

23. Really high

Hybrids are basically economy cars, so you can often buy an economy car for much cheaper and still get great gas mileage