We need the draft back again

[Erika]

Rangel was right. Pundits are now saying we should be in Iraq until at least 2011. Let the rich be drafted and
the war would be ended within the year.

[madeline_con]

1. The rich won't go.

They get medical and psychological excuses from their family physicians.

[Ioo]

116. The Rich Did not Elect Bush - It was the sheeple that did.

The uber rick make up a very small segment f the US Population. Bush was elected by those retards that are scared that they are going to be blown up in a mall, and like that Bush talks to god.

So I say DRAFT NOW!!!

[madeline_con]

141. I thought we were talking about the draft.

The rich don't "do" war.

[Warpy]

2. First the rich will never be drafted. Period.

Second, do you really, really want to give these madmen unlimited access to all the poor and working class kids in this country? Do you know the only thing keeping us in Iran is a lack of a huge military fueled by a draft?

THINK!

[Erika]

5. You forget this is the internet age

Limbaugh's boil on his butt which he used as getting out of serving will all be known. That's just a start as to what will be known, by all.

[Warpy]

89. You forget history

The rich will never be drafted. Period.

[uppityperson]

108. Has Limbaugh's boil shamed him into shutting up yet? No?Not a workable argument

This is the internet age and most people know why Rush didn't serve. Has this shut him up yet? Has this shamed him into being taken as a lying asshole by people? Does everyone just laugh at him? No. Shame won't work.

[butterfly77]

136. These people will start sending there children over to another country...

which they probably are planning right now.

[roamer65]

3. Absolutely not.

Dimwit would use the new troops to invade countries like Venezuela, Iran or Nicaragua. Absolutely no draft.

[Erika]

7. Where would he get the troops from?

The rich? You gotta be kidding. The wars would stop.

Did Bush, Cheney, Rove, etc. serve? No.

[spoony]

77. "We can stop this wood chipper if we just clog it with children..."

That's about how stupid the draft idea is.

[Phredicles]

84. Brilliant - I may have to steal this line for next time this argument

comes up on DU (and you know it will - there's a segment that gets wood whenever anyone says "draft"). Thanks in advance.:P

[SammyWinstonJack]

96. No kidding! Draft=More cannon fodder for the never ending wars of bu$hco.

[JVS]

122. Brilliant metaphor! Added to sig

[Ron Green]

4. I agree. The hired military is too easily misled into misadventures.

A conscripted force, across the board, would not stand for this bullshit, nor would their families.

[Phredicles]

6. "the war would be ended within the year."

Sure, just like it totally ended the Vietnam War within a year.:eyes::sarcasm::eyes:

[Erika]

9. Yes, because we learned from the Nam war

No more.

[Phredicles]

10. If we learned from the Vietnam War then why the fuck are we in Iraq?

[Erika]

12. We learned that it's insane

But the draft was there then. Can you imagine if the draft was reinstated today how much the wealthy class would scream. And the internet would be there to record their screams.

The internet wasn't available in Nam. It is now. The days of the chickenhawks could be numbered.

[uppityperson]

55. How many USAnians died in Viet Nam? How many in Iraq?Which had the draft?

Which had the draft? How many kids of the rich and powerful were drafted then? Why do you think they would pass a bill to not give those same rich and powerful a way out? Have you been watching this last 6 yrs?

[Horse with no Name]

8. Before today, I agreed with you 100%

Today, I have changed my mind.
Congress isn't protecting the troops...they are using them for political cover. Democrats and Republicans alike.
I feel like I've reached my nadir with these folks. They aren't doing the business of the people anymore.
I believed that a draft was the answer at stopping the war--but only with a Democratic Congress who was willing to stand for "We the People".
They won't tell Bush no. My recommendation is for anyone of service age to get the hell out of the country before someone DOES decide on a draft. Nobody should be used like this.

[Erika]

11. Exactly

The war is fine as long as its voluntary picking up kids who are hoping for $ for education, etc. If they live, they get an education.

But the upper class will never allow their kids to participate in war.

[Horse with no Name]

13. They are actually beating them out of that education promise

When my brother signed, they offered him a pretty substantial education bonus.
Problem was, they "forgot" to include it in his contract. When he realized it, he asked and of course they were sorry but there was "nothing they could do about it now"...
I wonder how many kids get the same story?

[Erika]

16. How very sad

Broadcast the story everywhere. Contact your D.C. reps. The fact that the defense of this country is being carried on by the working class, is disgusting.

Especially whn promises ar not kept.

[uppityperson]

14. The rich and powerful's kids will not be drafted

There is no way that a draft bill will be passed that will not have escape clauses for the rich and famous. It won't happen. Draft is a bad idea. The upper class will never allow their kids to participate in war, they will get them out of it.

[Erika]

18. We can demand it

That info isn't hidden like it was in Nam. We need the draft. Let all citizens suffer equally.

[uppityperson]

19. Demand ending the occupation instead.

If we can get what we demand, just demand ending the occupation. We do not need the draft since all the citizens will never suffer equally. If you really think we can get a draft everyone thing by demanding it, I'd rather just demand we end the occupation.

[Phredicles]

23. BINGO!

Drafting more cannon fodder just gives the war machine more fuel. If our "demanding" something is to work, let's demand something truly worth having: an end to this pointless, stupid war.

[uppityperson]

25. I have heard this before and just don't get it. If we can get something by demanding it,

why demand a draft? Instead demand the end of the occupation. If we can't get what we want by demanding it, how the HELL will drafting kids get this ended since those that have money and power would get their kids out?

[Erika]

30. We shame the rich kids from getting out of the military

We do have the net now. And we do it with a vengeance.

[uppityperson]

33. Passing a mandated time of service that the rich can get out of will shame them into

ending the occupation of Iraq? Having a draft will SHAME them into what, enlisting? Stopping the occupation? Sorry, that argument doesn't fly.

[Phredicles]

85. You're assuming these people have a sense of shame;

if there's any evidence they do I've missed it.

[JVS]

125. Our culture is no longer a shame society, we lack the cohesiveness for that

[Ron Green]

24. Not enough stakeholders.

There won't be a "demand" for anything as long as people can drive their cars and go shopping. But if their kids start to be in danger of dying for no reason, there will be changes.

[underseasurveyor]

36. Here HEAR

:thumbsup: :bounce: :loveya: :hug:

[Hobarticus]

135. Haven't we been demanding that since the word go?

How far has that gotten us?

[uppityperson]

139. Exactly. So why does anyone think they can demand a draft bill without deferments?

Why does anyone believe that demanding a draft bill without deferments will have any more chance of happening than ending the occupation?

[pnwmom]

66. We can "demand" it? Are you kidding? We could have massive protests

and they wouldn't even be covered on TV.

[BlackVelvet04]

152. How's demanding stuff from the government working

out for ya?

[misternormal]

15. No Draft... PERIOD... n/t

[Erika]

17. We have to subject the rich kids

Absolutely. They can get out there and risks there lives also. Why do you just want the low and income middle class to lose their kids for the next four years?

[Phredicles]

20. "The rich kids" have never been subject to conscription before;

what makes you think it would change now, in today's corporate-friendly political climate, with our completely shameless "leadership"?

If the draft is reinstated, its burdens will fall where they always have, where all such burdens fall, on the voiceless and the powerless.

[Erika]

26. Not if we raised our voices and stopped it

We can do that.

[uppityperson]

28. How about we raise our voices and stop the occupation of Iraq instead?

[underseasurveyor]

32. And raising our voices these past 6+ years

have gotten us where again?

[Ron Green]

21. The truly rich don't matter, there are too few of them. It's the middle class that would bring

an end to this nonsense, right away, if their kids were in danger of going into ill-advised wars of choice.

[raccoon]

86. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

The middle class and the sheeple who say, "Let's go over there and kick butt!" and then want somebody else to do it.

[uppityperson]

22. I want the occupation ended. You are insulting with your statement here

"Why do you just want the low and income middle class to lose their kids for the next four years?" You are insulting us. stop.

[RiverStone]

61. Why have ANY kids risk their lives?

Simply put - ANY draft will only feed the reckless and wasteful implementation of an immoral war. Regardless of socio-economic group - NO kid's should go fight Shrub's war.

And in particular, as the parent of 2 teenagers of draft age - I'm gonna fight like hell to avoid any draft of any kind anyway. Show me a parent with draft age children that wants a draft...

[JVS]

127. Why the rich kids? Draft the old fuckers who voted Bush in.

Only if we draft people between 40 and 60 will this shit stop.

[underseasurveyor]

27. Yeah Just like Prince Harry is going to Iraq

Oh no wait, that's right, he's not going after all. It was decided that it was too dangerous for Prince Harry to go to war.

And that's exactly how it will be for America's rich and privileged, too dangerous for THEM. When will y'all learn that? :mad:

NO FUCKING DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD!

[Erika]

29. A draft so the rich will also serve

I was on BBC and was surprised at the number of posts who said Harry should serve since he was one who profited most from his government.

[underseasurveyor]

31. Oh believe me I get your meaning but you're not getting it yet

Harry was PRE-VENTED from going to Iraq even tho he was fully prepared, and I do believe more than willing to go. The British intelligence and the royal family decided it was too dangerous for Prince Harry to go to Iraq and therefore stopped him from going. And if that's not the case and Harry didn't really want to go, he sure got out of it now didn't he.

Now do tell, what makes you believe that anyone but the poor and middle class will be drafted? Sounds ideal but the fact is the rich will sends their kids to another country, pay someone off, or if they do get drafted they'll get guarantees of state side cake duty, or some other no risk position, say in the dept of ______. The rich and privileged will not get drafted into the same situation as my son or yours (if you have a son).

It's a delusional fantasy that that would ever be the case.

[underseasurveyor]

39. ha ha And Prince Harry is not rich?

Shit he's rich and he got out of going to war now didn't he. But oh I'm sure that would never happen here, not in THIS country:eyes: Nooooooo. geesh

[TX-RAT]

97. No draft

I will not make a person fight if they choose not to.

[underseasurveyor]

34. Rangel is wrong on this issue

and remember it was two republicans that introduced reinstituting the draft again.

Fucking republicans:mad: it's their frickin war let them send their own to fight it:mad:

This shit pisses me the fuck off:nuke:

[uppityperson]

37. Indeed.

If we clap our hands fast enough and say "I believe, I believe" then we can end the occupation by having a draft that no one can get out of. (why not clap our hands and just end the occupation?)

While it sounds reasonable, these are not reasonable people we are dealing with. If they can't end the occupation, if they can't pass a bill with a timeline, I sure as hell am not going to risk more kids being turned into fodder.

[Jed Dilligan]

35. I'll listen when a draftable person (male 18-34) posts this. nt

[raccoon]

88. IF the draft were reinstated, I don't think it would just be males. nt

[Jed Dilligan]

119. They would start drafting before changing the law. nt

[Jack Sprat]

38. Just looking at it in pure fairness, you're right.

Everyone knows this, but they don't want to talk about it. We send the poor kids who need a job off to fight wars, while we are steadily getting rid of the job that they once had.

Yes, there should be a draft, and not to just punish wealthy kids, but to have an armed force from all backgrounds of America. Not only would it improve morale, but it would give our legislators pause to think about the personal consequences of committing to war. With a volunteer army, of mostly poor kids, they have little hesitancy to throw them into harm's way. It's the right thing to do. The Congress won't do it. It was a nice gesture from you, though.

[Erika]

41. Great post

Why should the rich kids escape W's warring.

[uppityperson]

44. They shouldn't. End the occupation, don't draft more to go and let rich kids dodge.

Erika, I understand what you mean but don't think it is possible to do this.

[Erika]

46. I do.

Public shame through the internet will be very effective.

[uppityperson]

48. I do not think public shaming will end the occupation.

I refuse to work towards starting a draft and will fight it for all I am worth. It will give cannon fodder. I want to end the occupation, not throw more kids into the mess. That is what I think, how I feel, what I will do.

[Erika]

51. I will fight for ALL to have to sacrifice equally

That is what I think, how I feel, and what I will do.

The rich should have to sacrifice also or let them stop this insane war. They've got the ear of this administration.

[uppityperson]

52. End the occupation. There will never be equal sacrifice.

Maybe in Utopia, but not in this counrty.

[Erika]

54. Only if you don't fight for equal sacrifice n/t

[uppityperson]

56. Tell that to parents/families/friends of those killed in VietNam.

[Erika]

57. Been there, done that

Let's make it different this time.

[uppityperson]

58. With THIS congress, THIS administration?

How DARE you insult me and say that the only reason there is not equality is I haven't fought for it? You have a reality far different than mine. I have watched this congress, this administration and will continue to fight to end the occupation of Iraq without giving them more cannon-fodder.

[Erika]

59. Do as you may and feel as you may

I have actual family over there.

[TX-RAT]

98. They volunteered.

[Hobarticus]

133. That makes it okay? She has no right to complain, is that it? eom

[uppityperson]

99. Do as you may and feel as you may, I do too and don't want more.

I have actual family and friends over there and will fight to keep more from being thrown into it unwillingly.

Just because some volunteered, or were back door drafted, does not mean that more should be forcibly conscripted.

[BlackVelvet04]

153. No it won't......

limbaugh was publically shamed for his drug use but he's still spouting his shit.

The young republicans have been shamed all over the internet but they still aren't in Iraq they are still doing those things they considered more important.

[HughBeaumont]

81. With a draft, you'd be punishing ALL kids.

Improve morale? I'm quite positive forcing our country's kids into a desert slaughterhouse is probably NOT going to improve morale. And since when have ANY legislators thought about consequences for anything they enact?

Ending this war and our f-ed up addiction to militarism isn't possible? Peace isn't possible?

[Hobarticus]

93. The reaction on DU to a reasoned argument like this

Never ceases to amaze.

How people who otherwise consider equality and justice a cornerstone of our national identity are in effect condoning a system that disproportionately draws from the disadvantaged and disenfranchised is so disappointing.

[uppityperson]

101. What makes me feel better is the few that support this.

No forced conscription. End the occupation, don't start the draft.

[Hobarticus]

109. That's a nice solution for today...

For the next war, we'll just be using the same people who have nowhere else to go and no other options. It's inherently unfair on it's face. Voluntary isn't really voluntary if you've got nothing else. I'd love to see a motivated all-volunteer military that really truly wants to be in uniform, but spend some time around the military and you'll see that many just had no other doors open for them. And that's a problem for us as a whole.

I can concede that a draft isn't ideal, but we need to come up with a long-term solution to address the injustice built into our armed forces.

I know it's pretty trippy, but still, we can do better for our young people, all around. A draft ain't it, necessarily, but it brings up issues that no one seems to have any problem with. And that's disappointing.

[uppityperson]

112. Did the draft end VietNam? How many died because of the draft?

How long did that debacle go on BECAUSE of the draft?

The "all voluntary military" we have is not voluntary, some is, a lot isn't. Of course it isn't equal. Of course it isn't truly voluntary. We need not to throw more bodies into the fray but to stop the bs that is going on. Throwing more into it isn't going to do it. In time of war, in time of country's sacrificing for the Greater Good, there needs to be sacrifice but everyone. Where is the sacrifice for most USAnians? Food rationing? Gas rationing? Making bandages? Anything? No, most people go about their daily lives, blissfully worshipping the god of money and consumption, hoping THEY will win the lottery, hoping THEY won't be blown up while shopping at the mega-mall by the Evil Enemy that Hates us for our Freedoms. There needs to be sacrifice. Restarting forced conscription is not the way because the madmen in power would be very happy to mutilate all those bodies also.

That said, I have always thought that there should be some sort of 2 yr time between highschool and college for all young adults to spend working for their community/country/world. Not nec in military, but doing something, getting some experiences away from home, doing Good Deeds. All young people.

[underseasurveyor]

113. Insert 'The Dept of Peace' here

uppityperson wrote: That said, I have always thought that there should be some sort of 2 yr time between highschool and college for all young adults to spend working for their community/country/world. Not nec in military, but doing something, getting some experiences away from home, doing Good Deeds. All young people."

Or if not between high school and college, at any time before the age of 25.

[uppityperson]

114. I know, I don't know how it could be done though.

Growing up during Peace Corps time, I wish for lots of things. Yes, between 18-25 would be good since high school and college will leave out a bunch of people. Showing my college bias here, sorry. I don't see how it could be done though. This country is an interesting experiment of a whole lot of different peoples, different cultures, under 1 flaggie. Sort of like EU in reverse as far as states/fed stuff.

[underseasurveyor]

117. I don't know either.

But these little details can be worked out I'm sure;-)

[Hobarticus]

118. That's the other part of the problem...

And you nailed it: sacrifice means the sacrifice of a handful. We're still building McMansions, we're still building SUVs that we can't afford to fuel, and we don't bat an eye. Yet there's the war cheerleaders, talking about how this is a war on the scale of WW2 without a hint of irony.

I know a draft isn't the answer, but if it came, it'd have to be across the board. I may be idealistic in thinking that it'd work in preventing useless conflict, that the Quayles and Cheneys and Dubyas of the world wouldn't find a way around it....but being idealistic is why we're all here.

I've always been a proponent of some kind of civil service, especially non-military. Remember Americorps? Did that get gutted when the Great Purge Of All Things Clinton began?

[HughBeaumont]

110. Reasoned?

A all-inclusive draft punishes ALL kids and would realistically punish the middle class and poor kids. The rich wouldn't see hour ONE of a boot camp and anyone who thinks they will must be smoking some damned good banana peels.

I mean, are you all FOR forcing kids to fiery, mangled IED deaths? Because it's not as if people DIE or get burned half to death in useless oil wars, right? Are you FOR wasting hundreds of billions of tax dollars FUNDING our empirical delusions? Also, are you of draft age? I'm beyond it by a few years (38) and I think it's a cruel and idiotic idea; mostly because I'm also a parent.

[Hobarticus]

123. Can't write better comedy than this...

I'm taking about a reasoned debate, in response I get hysteronics. Obviously I must be really into "forcing kids to fiery, mangled IED deaths" because I disagree with you.

No more cruel an idea than creating a society where for many young men and women, the military is the best chance they have. Until we can do better for all of us, and not just throw the disenfranchised under the bus in one of our useless oil wars, we'll keep sending the kids who weren't so fortunate to have other doors and paths open to them.

I have problems with a draft, but this discussion brings up some serious issues about class and privelege that no one seems to want to touch.

[uppityperson]

129. How about the "this will shame them" argument?

You know, like Rush is so shamed that his boil got on the internets that he has no standing anymore?

[Hobarticus]

137. You lost me...

Who are you trying to shame?

[uppityperson]

138. Posts #5, 30, 46 by OP

Supposedly because we not are in the age of the internets, we will be able to shame the children of the rich and powerful into not seeking deferments.

[HughBeaumont]

131. Then blame greedbag corporations, not the people.

They're the ones crossing off options for the disenfranchised with every plant, factory and assembly line they close and move to Mexico or Malaysia.

My point is, and no one seems to be answering this: why should we have to send anyone at ALL? Is peace just not a viable option?

[Hobarticus]

132. Now you're talking...

Why are corporations being rewarded for maximizing profits by sending jobs overseas? Why is that magical "invisible hnad" that Reagan loved so much allowed to choke the hell out of our young people?

"Why should we have to send anyone at ALL? Is peace just not a viable option?"

EXACTLY. Why isn't this even on the table? Why do we need to maintain a force to match a reckless foreign policy? Why don't we demand more of our elected officials, and of each other as citizens? Why aren't we united? Is it because we know that it's "someone else's kid" who'll get killed?

They compare this war to WW2 ad naseum, but where's the national sacrifice? We're still building McMansions, we're still building SUVs that no one can afford to gas up, we're eating 5000 calories a day, and life is all fat n' happy for us here at home.

I'm not blaming our young people, I certainly don't want to see anyone in the line of fire, and I'm not necessarily an advocate of a draft. But discussion of a draft speaks more about larger socio-economic issues than it does about force requirements.

[HughBeaumont]

151. That "invisible hand" has pretty much closed the door for every subsequent generation since.

Think about it. Say you're young and for whatever reason you don't want to go to college. If you're smart, usually you'd invest in your start-up with whatever technological genius you can come up with, or go into the family business should they have one. Hopefully, with some luck, you can be that one business out of every 10 that doesn't fail.

If you're not cut out for college for whatever reason, then you'd go to a trade school. Finding a reputable one isn't easy. There's another problem: every career, no matter if it's blue and white collar professions can now be either EXPORTED there or IMPORTED here. Factories and assembly lines? Gone. Distribution? That was never a huge paying field to begin with, and a lot of places are now automating their processes. Nurses? They're H1B'ing that field to death now. Construction and landscaping? What was once a decent (albeit not very healthy) living is now done by cheap labor that works for 1/4 the cost. Either that or you're contracting.

When you DO graduate college, you're now in a field with thousands upon thousands of other college graduates vying for that same position, in addition to all of the visa holders. Used to be that a college degree opened more doors for the young and not-so-young. Now it's nothing more than a given in the white collar world. You're not set apart if every person has one. Even graduate school is starting to become saturated. Many mid-management positions now absolutely require an MBA. Imagine a day where you have to go to graduate school not to advance in career, but to merely remain employable.

Combine all of this with honest-as-used-car-salesmen recruiters preying on blue-collar schools and targeting those with low grades (as they did me back in 1986-7), promising them the world on a plate and delivering a cow chip when it's too late to back out, and you have the situation the young are thrown in. It does speak volumes about the disastrous state of the economy for the lower 95%: you cannot consider an economy strong if it doesn't have the capability of employing everyone and not just the heavily degreed and privileged.

[StarryNite]

40. No draft!

I'm so sick of this war and not being represented I could scream! I feel like our party died today and America is on life support.

[Erika]

43. Institute the draft with no exceptions

and the war will end. The rich won't let their kids get killed.

[underseasurveyor]

50. Where have you been the past 6+ years?

That's all this administration has been is one big exception after another, on top of 100 other exceptions.

Haven't you been paying attention? This administration and the way it's setting up for those who follow in the future will do what they want. You think they really care what we think??!!!!! Or what's fair??!!!!!

My god I'm not really arguing these points AGAIN for another war now am I:banghead:

Somebody PLEASE wake me from my nightmare:boring:

[StarryNite]

60. If it were possible to do that with absolutely

no exceptions it would work. But that has never happened in the past and it would never happen now. So screw them and their frickin war.

[murloc]

75. Nothing a little signing statement cant fix

No such thing as no exceptions if you are rich and powerful enough.

Besides, it is inhumane and immoral to bet the lives of tens of thousands in hopes that a few rich kids will get killed, as a method of ending the war.

[BlackVelvet04]

154. There are ALWAYS

exceptions. What you are proposing is a game of chicken except you are doing it with someone else's life.

Let's say a draft is reinstated....how many kids die while the rich organize their protest assuming they do protest. There are many ways to get out of the draft. My brother was willing to take his son and go to Canada or anywhere else to protect him from the draft. He's not rich but he would have found a way. How much easier for someone with lots of money?

[lovuian]

42. Rangel is wrong and I see in my crystal ball thousands of kids

running to Canada... they will be the immigrants asking for asylum
you know the well educated and smart kids the ones every country wants

maybe thats why they want amnesty for 25 million people so they can draft them into our army
Welcome to America

[Erika]

45. Yep n/t

[underseasurveyor]

53. Canada said no a few years ago

They will send any and all draft dodgers back from whence they came. Well except perhaps the rich ones they'll consider letting them stay.
Money talks, as usual.

[lovuian]

115. My relative got a job and worked their for months He has a skill

they want...He will be given a work visa
Rules can always change and what if a draft dodger married a Canadian
there is Costa Rica Paraguay Brazil Argentina plenty of countries will take them

Mexico too

[murloc]

47. Would make it easier to invade Iran, Syria

And anybody else on Bushs list.

I suspect Bush would love nothing more than for Congress to push through a draft bill.

He could use it to beat Dems over the head with it, while simultaneously using it to spin up a few more wars.

[Erika]

49. There is no furor for more wars other than thru the right wing

You think they will want their kids to go?

[murloc]

74. doesnt really matter what they want

If there is a draft in place.

However, the right wing will point at the Dems in Congress for passing a Draft. Bush will be happily drafting them away, all the while saying "its the Dems fault, its their draft"

End result is that many Dems get kicked out for pushing a draft and being the "warmongers", all the while the war continues its expansion.

Sure, many will protest and complain, but bush so far doesnt really seem to give a damn about what people think, nor pay attention to the protests.

All in all, it would be like trying to put out a fire by using gasoline.

The draft is a tool to EXPAND and fight wars. Its very ill suited to end them.

[cherokeeprogressive]

62. If you're between 17 and 42, then UNCLE SAM BE WANT'N YOU!!!

So, Erika, you be want'n a draft now? Are you between the age of 17 and 42?

Still WANT A DRAFT?

Rangel doesn't have draft aged children

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Erika]

68. My own son served in Desert Storm

So knock it off.

[underseasurveyor]

92. OK so now that we know that

Would you truly want people that did not choose to be in the military, fighting a war and for their own lives, standing next to your son? Ask your son if he wants people next to him that were forced to be there.

Your son chose to enlist and when the fighting began in desert storm I'm sure, I would hope, as a mother you were worried sick about his safety, yes? And if that is the case then why would you want to wish that on any mother? Doesn't matter if they're rich or poor, share the suffering is not my idea of compassion. Personally as a mom I would never wish such ills on any mother.

Knock it off huh? Why because you say so:rofl:

[TX-RAT]

100. He volunteered.

Why in the world would anybody want to force someone to go to war?

[misternormal]

126. And My daughter served in this present mess...

... And may possibly go back...

So how many time can I say it...

No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...
No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...
No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...
No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...
No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...No Draft...

[underseasurveyor]

130. Thanks

:hug:

I hope your Daughter does not have to return to that mess.
To and Yours:toast:

[Name removed]

94. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Erika]

69. My own son served in Desert Storm

So knock it off.

[Hobarticus]

95. I'm sorry, Erika...

Sometimes DU is seriously fucked up.

[pnwmom]

64. Did Vietnam end within a year of that draft? No. More than 50,000 died

during the course of that war, and most of them died AFTER draftees started being sent to Vietnam.

The reason we got rid of the draft after Vietnam was that we realized that a draft ENABLED the war mongers.

The rich can send their children out of the country if they have to, or get them medical excuses. It's everyone else who would suffer.

If the Democratic party ever supports a draft, that's the end of my involvement with the party. I'm not letting my sons be used as pawns.

[bluestateguy]

70. Bad idea. The rich will not be drafted

Write it down. They will not.

Even if the law is written with "no exceptions", loopholes will be found.

A draft only gives them more warm bodies for God only knows how many more wars. That's probably the only reason we have not attacked Iran yet--lack of manpower.

I also reject the notion that a draft would mobilize the anti-war movement. Maybe it would a little bit, but not enough to really change things. I'd be willing to bet you that at least half of the new draftees would simply put on a uniform and serve, for no other reason than that the government says they have to go.

And why should those of us who were smart enough to oppose the war from Day One have to serve?

[Erika]

72. I think your victim attitude is wrong

Like you have no fight or ability to stop them. I think that is defeatist completely. We need to stand up for a change.

[bluestateguy]

73. Oh the draft would be change all right. No argument there.

Careful what you ask for.

[uppityperson]

103. we need to stand up and end the Occupation of Iraq. Not start conscripting more bodies.

Stand up and do what needs to be done to end the occupation.

[ComerPerro]

71. you have to be completely naive to think that rich Republicans would be hurt by a draft

[murloc]

76. Draft is a war -enabler-

The draft is a tool use to expand and fight wars...especially unpopular wars.

No draft has ever ended a war in all of history, and its not going to start now.

[Lasher]

78. I was drafted in 1969

I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone.

Instead of wishing misery on others, please consider a more practical solution: If you and your relatives don't want to fight in wars you should not join the military. I'm glad everyone has that option today.

[pampango]

79. Draft their pets, too. Sure, they are not responsible for the war, but...

it would great a lot of public pressure to end the war. (Likewise 18 year olds are not responsible for the war, since most have not voted in any election and those that have probably represent less than 1% of actual voters.)

If we don't care about whom we draft, just want to create political pressure, I say we go after pets. ;)

[salin]

80. we should never again go into a war unless we have a draft *because*

there really has to be a national consensus that the war about to be waged is of such grave importance that we are all ready to sacrifice. It was that way once the decision was made to enter WWII. Folks were to jingoistic and removed during the debates going into this debacle. I would venture to guess that under the condition I state that we still would have gone into Afghanistan but that we never would have gone into Iraq.

[Fox Mulder]

82. I am totally against the draft.

No one should be forced to fight in any war, no matter what the circumstances are.

[MrSlayer]

83. No, we really don't.

It is a horrible idea.

[Beelzebud]

87. Hell yeah that would be great! First we fund the war, then we institute a draft!

We'll be the fucking WAR MONGER party yet!

All we are saying... Is give WAR a chance!!!!!!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

90. Are you planning on enlisting yourself?

[Akoto]

91. Sorry, but as someone of prime draft age ...

I have no interest in serving in the military. None, zero. You know what? I'd be one of the first there in the event of a draft. Not the kids of some rich guy who has the money and legal backing to keep them out of it.

The whole "we'll demand no exemptions in the law" line is bullshit. There must be exemptions for the infirm, and there will be exemptions for the privileged. Where there's a dollar, there's a way. It's unfortunate, but it's how our country works.

You want to gamble with my life and well-being for a plan that won't work, you go right ahead. The people who you aren't targeting will just be sent over there to kill and die, as with the volunteers. Bush abuses them without regard for the opinions of the people, and he'll abuse us.

[misternormal]

128. Good for you !!! ... n/t

[Megahurtz]

102. FUCK THAT!

The Rich Kids won't go because Mommy and Daddy paid for and put them into a University.
They will buy their way out in one way or another and the Poor or Middle Class will have to go.
FUCK THAT FUCK THAT FUCK THAT!!!!:argh:

[JVS]

121. amen

[WI_DEM]

104. It's not about the rich being drafted but the broad middle class

if they knew that their kids were at jeapardy we would have a real anti-war movement in this country.

[Daphne08]

105. Sorry, but I didn't spend all those years raising my sons so that

they could serve in an unnecessary war!

They would both fight to the death if this country were to be invaded (and they have stated that in no uncertain terms), but they have no interest in participating in a Vietnam-like quagmire.

[w8liftinglady]

106. I have struggled with this Idea-most people I know have no idea

how many troops have died,been injured or the conditions they endure.I'm sure they don't know that over 100 men have committed suicide(that we know of) while over there.I WOULD like all Americans to share equally in this war through some kind of sacrifice,like WW2.The apathy is appalling.
And,yes-I have three sons-one who served three tours over there and is a fucked-up mess...

[uppityperson]

107. We should DEMAND they draft only the rich and powerful ones kids.

I agree, the inequality is appalling. Civilians have not been asked to change anything, except be more scared. And volunteer to fight terror. With the military and equipment they have. Many many people have friends/family directly involved with the occupation debacle but most of us have had to make little changes in our daily lives. No sacrifice at home. But I don't see a forced conscription of the not rich-n-powerful being a way to end this.

Except for the death, destruction, continuing extreme physical and mental health issues, continuing deterioration of USA standing anywhere and everywhere, there has been little asked of civilians. Fear fear fear fear fear. But there is no way a draft would be equal. Those passing it would make it unequal.

If we can stand up and demand something, demand the end of the occupation, the end of this administrations power to continue the great harm they have caused.

[misternormal]

142. You see how well DEMANDING impeachment has gone... n/t

[uppityperson]

143. Yup. And I think demanding a draft for all is ridiculous.

The post you reply to "We should DEMAND they draft only the rich and powerful ones kids." was in response to many previous ones (by 1 poster in particular) that we can demand a draft and by demanding make it happen. If someone truly believes that by demanding a draft that no one can get out of will make it happen, I'd say demand an end to the occupation, the NEED for military to be there instead. Or, I have a bridge for sale.

[Oilwellian]

111. I'm so goddamned sick and tired of this suggestion

It's the stupidest goddamned suggestion I see all too often on DU. Having 4 sons of draft age (2 are stepsons) it PISSES ME OFF to no end to see someone offer them up as cannon fodder so the rich can be cannon fodder too! How stupid is that?????? Do you honestly believe the war will end if this criminal administration has unlimited access to millions of young men to "serve at their pleasure?" Please, think this through before offering up MY kids for wars that have NOTHING to do with protecting America. FUCK THAT!!!!

[JVS]

120. No fucking way.

[treestar]

124. How about the reverse instead?

Campaign like hell against joining the military. The warmongers campaign in the schools and spend taxpayer $$ on TV ads which never do reveal the exact truth.

Put out films showing what really happens in a war - even if ficitonal, use it to scare kids off, sort of like the anti-drug scare films of the 70s. Find vets who are paralyzed.

Let people see what it really means, so that they get that frivolous wars are not worth it.

[Bright Eyes]

134. i don't think so

i'm i've drafting age and i sure has hell am not going!

[otherlander]

140. Thank you for advocating my death.

Your comments are being considered quite seriously. Please note that we get many suggestions, and are unable to follow them all, due to their volume, variety, and insanity. We will notify you if we decide to follow your advice. Thank you, and have a nice day.

[fizzgig]

144. what makes you think the rich will serve?

honestly? they won't do a day's duty. explain to me how the draft will end the war?

if we re-instate the draft, what is to keep the war machine from gaining speed and plowing into iran or north korea or gods know where else? do you actually trust that *, et al, to not expand their militaristic endeavors if we just hand them an unending stream of bodies? it'll be just more wood for the fire.

i am so sick of this argument. don't volunteer my life for politics. don't volunteer the life of my sister, my cousins, my friends, my co-workers and my peers.

i refuse to become a sacrificial lamb, why are you so willing to throw me and those i love to the wolves? how is more blood going to end the bloodshed?

it will be a cold day in hell before those bastards get their claws in me.

[Stupified]

145. How many poor politicians are there?

I see alot of raving about sending the rich kids (which is obviously supposed to mean Republican kids) to go die for "W's war" and it would have me in fits of laughter if it weren't so pathetic.

How many Democratic politicians are poor?

How many of those Democratic politicians voted to authorize "W's war"?

I know it's all fun an games while you're volunteering the children of Republicans to go die a meaningless death but can you please give a few seconds of thought to what you're saying here?

This whole rich = bad Republican class bullshit is just ridiculous and it really does nothing to address the real issues at hand.

I hate to be the one that lets the Genie out of the bottle here but they are all rich people who have alot more allegiance to thier money, power, and each other than they will ever have for us.

Want proof?

Who runs the House an Senate?

What's changed?

[alittlelark]

146. Your concept would work if those families w/ the highest tax break have the

lowest #'s. I like that idea!

[Lilith Velkor]

147. Bull fucking shit my asshole

[Ganja Ninja]

148. No draft of any kind until this President is gone and this war is over.

[Vinca]

149. I'm opposed to the draft, but it would end the war quickly.

The Young Republicans would finally be in more peril than slipping on the frat house steps. Mitt's son what's-his-name might get his opportunity to contribute. I really don't want it, but if this country is going to remain at war for years on end, I don't know what else you can do. Of course, those Young Republicans could voluntarily enlist . . .

[nookiemonster]

150. True, the rich would never be drafted.

Although, Joe Sixpack and his warped desire to support the right wing chickenhawks might get a wake up call.

Color me crazy, but I don't see this misadventure changing without a draft.

[jerryme1]

155. Draft will soon be necessary. Just look at the numbers. If the U.S.'s loses 100 troops/month to

death and injury, and the U.S. plans to stay in Iraq inevitably (and attack Iran), which it does, then we must have a draft to replenish the war machine. The 18-30 crowd should really consider voting in the upcoming election.

[Orsino]

156. Not with this damned government.

I will not help them create a pool of second-class citizens who have to fight whenever it's profitable. No way will I free them completely from having to sell us on war. Let 'em grab troops whenever they want at a price they set? Not gonna happen.