I never thought I would consider leaving America, but

[King Coal]

I am so disgusted now. I have a chance to move to Canada for a good paying job, and I may do it. Whenever someone else said they were leaving I always said, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." And now, I'm the one who may have to look out for a door hitting my ass. I always thought I would stay and fight. My ancestors left there home to come here, why am I different from them now. So many Americans are so ignorant and apathetic, that it just sickens me. And I am looked at as a goofball when I explain the truth to many of the people around me, including friends and family. I feel betrayed by members of my political party. I'm just sad today. :dilemma:

[monmouth]

1. I said the same thing when Bush was re-elected, wanted to go to

Ireland but too expensive (can you imagine??). I love Ottowa, beautiful city, I've been having the same thoughts. I'm in Florida i.e. hurricanes, press 1 for English, what's keeping me here?

[bunkerbuster1]

2. Hell, I'd move to Canada for a good-paying job in a heartbeat.

Go for it. Don't worry about turning your back on the US; give another place a chance for awhile.

You might find you love your country more than ever when you return.

[sharp_stick]

3. Don't forget, the grass is always greener

on the other side of the fence. Canada is no panacea of tolerance and beauty. Mind you, it's nowhere near as xenophobic as it is here but apathy and ignorance are not solely American.

[Vilis Veritas]

7. But the grass IS greener ;-) n/t

[EnviroBat]

4. I've been wondering what New Zealand is like...

I am disgusted with my representatives, and I live in fear of my government. It's becoming clearer day-by-day that we have no voice. I don't want to live like this anymore.

[snappyturtle]

5. Well, first off

:hug:

I can see why you would see this as an opportunity....can't say that if it were to happen to me that I wouldn't see it as one! I know the apathy and ignorance abounds but think about it....good luck in whatever you decide.

[Rosemary2205]

6. Don't feel bad

we all get tired and discouraged from time to time.

I'm disgusted too, but everything I know is here. As long as I can economically and physically survive in the United States I'll stay here and fight for the duration.

[quinnox]

8. Go

Inevitably in these type threads people will say 'no, stay' but I always say go. Each individual must do what is best for them, and Canada is a next door neigbor anyway, so it isn't like leaving for some far away country. You can easily visit the U.S from Canada.

Anyway, all those who agree with the poster and want to leave the U.S. go for it!

[King Coal]

10. I can go and retain citizenship here.

I may just go for it.

[sharp_stick]

13. Of course you can

if you go to Canada on an employment VISA you are considered temporary. If you get Landed Immigrant Status (Canadian version of a Green Card) you still maintain American citizenship.

AFAIK if you eventually get Canadian citizenship you can maintain your American citizenship as well (dual citizenship). I know the dual works the other way but I'm not certain about Americans becoming Canadians.

[Vilis Veritas]

9. Do not move in disgust...

Move because it is the right thing for you. That is the hard thing to determine. If you move in disgust and something there does not sit well with you...well, the cycle begins again.

Whatever you decide, I hope your journey is peaceful and full of promise.

[AnneD]

35. Excellent advice....

as our retirement (actually our next career) come about, are considering it ourselves. I try to be positive but I don't intend to cheerfully march to the showers.

[SaveAmerica]

11. NEVER GIVE UP!!!

NEVER NEVER NEVER, Sad you can work around, it will take a lot of us to make changes, we need everyone who cares as a foundation. Break us up and we'll have weak places that won't support our mission. Maybe you can come help me here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x949381

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. I'm thinking of Mexico, since it's close.

or South America.

[AnneD]

36. Mexico is too

hot right now....you may be jumping into the fire.

[KT2000]

14. This is an opportunity!

Go for it.
You could certainly return if you didn't like it.
Our Dem leadership is placing us all in the position of being accomplices to this nightmare.

[Iwasthere]

15. I purchased for my birthday two 1.75 acre lots of dense jungle in Costa Rica

Just 3 miles from the most beautiful beaches just North of the the Panama border. Going to build some large treehouses and get back to basics. No TV, no Radio, No phone. Maybe I will read the newspaper now and then. Life is just too damn short and my health is suffering because of all the BS in this country (* stress!). I have three or four years before my kids are out of the house. Don't know if I can wait that long. I have allowed the fucking madman and repubs to shorten my life! Sad

[NotGivingUp]

20. sounds like a good move!

how much did you have to pay for the lots? costa rica has crossed my mind, too.

[Iwasthere]

22. Just over $6000.00 for both

Right next to each other. The Titles are in hand noterized and stamped by proper officials and sent to me and I had an attorney help me to make sure it was legit. Bought from a real estate auction site. Am taking the family down in July for two weeks to see the property. Just 3 miles below Puerto Viejo. there are deals out there if you have money you're willing to take a chance with.

[Swamp Rat]

24. Buena suerte

:hi: I lived in Alajuela and Guanacaste.... I love CR and may return someday.

Be careful about your property ownership rights. I suggest making friends with an attorney. ;)

¡pura vida!

[Iwasthere]

27. Yes. I am working on making some new friends now.

Good advice. That is why I clarified "money you're willing to take a chance with". Wish I could just live down there for awhile and research opportunities but cannot yet.

[Swamp Rat]

32. Watch out for squatters.

After so many days, your property can become theirs. I've seen it happen before to expat land owners. ;)

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. You Lucky Dog!

:evilgrin:

[NotGivingUp]

44. sweet! nt

[partylessinOhio]

16. Don't be sad. If this is right for you, go for it. Don't wait until you're too old

and too poor like me. I want to leave but don't have a chance to do it.

Life in America is bad now but will get much worse. I would rather watch it happen from a point outside this country.

Good luck!:hug:

[Ganja Ninja]

17. If Canada was south of the border rather than north I'd be ...

seriously looking at it.

[CatWoman]

18. Can I come too?

:hi:

[King Coal]

34. Hi Cat!

:hi:

I suppose you can if you can take the cold in British Columbia. I have a lot to learn and negotiate.

[kwyjibo]

19. Nothing lasts forever

It may be a nice little interlude in your life, why not try it out? I always wanted to be able to say (when I'm older) that I lived in a lot of different places and got to experience different lifestyles and cultures. So far I've lived in two cities in one state so I have a lot of experience ahead of me :)

[leftchick]

21. I had been preparing to buy land in Canada

and hopefully eventually move and send my sons to college there. Then my older boy was diagnosed with T1 Diabetes. :(

[mnhtnbb]

45. leftchick--so sorry to hear this!

Would that affect whether Canada would accept your family? I know they don't want retirees because of the expected burden on their healthcare system. Do they
deny resident visas because of pre-existing conditions?

[leftchick]

47. unless something has changed

that is my understanding. :(

[depakid]

23. If you have a chance and don't take it- you're making a huge mistake

Romanticism and nostalgia aside, an objective view show America to be a nation in decline, and there are too many structural impediments to implementing the sorts of changes that would be required to substantially alter that course.

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. Do it! I would, in a heartbeat! If only I had the chance/opportunity.

:-(

[Madspirit]

28. Yes!

I always was loyal too and said I would stay and fight the good fight. ...but if we had the money to leave, which we don't, I would be an expat....in a minute. ...and I went through the Viet Nam war, Cambodia, Nixon, Watergate, etc. and it's just worse every day. I really am starting to hate it here enough to bail.
Lee

[chaska]

29. When you realize, truly realize, just how little power we really have to change things...

you really only have two choices: stay and take it, or leave.

The country is too big, and the corrupt culture (not just governmental or corporate, I mean all of us) is too entrenched.

Personally, I'm praying for a collision with a giant meteor.

Edit: I'm sorry, I just broke my own rule to never encourage apathy. Please, by all means, fight until you can't fight anymore.

[treestar]

38. We do but it's so slow and cumbersome

It seems there is not much we can do on a dime.

Maybe we need some fundamental changes - a way to get rid of Presidents or Supreme Court justices by no confidence vote.

But that would take some real work - constitutional amendments.

[chaska]

40. I'm thinking more along the lines of a revolution....

Throw the whole goddamned system over the side and start over from scratch.

[earth mom]

30. Go for it-You can always come back if you don't like it-but I think you'll love it.

I :loveya: Canada!

[mnhtnbb]

31. We came to this conclusion after the 04 election. We're building

a retirement home in Panama (Canada doesn't want retirees and neither does New Zealand). Unfortunately, we won't go until after June 08 when our youngest graduates high school--but then I think we're outta' here.

As someone else said--you can always come back.

[mnhtnbb]

33. See picture of the development under construction in Panama

[Jed Dilligan]

48. I hope they're preserving at least a corridor through there

It looks like a wave of extinctions just waiting to happen.

[mnhtnbb]

52. You're seeing a picture of land that was used to graze cattle

before construction. Panama has a very active environmental agency: only 30% of the project's land is being developed. The environmental agency has been involved
every step of the way--and not just rubber-stamping, either.

The island also has a huge nature preserve.

[Jed Dilligan]

54. That's better than if they plowed it up

I know Panama has a decent record especially compared to some neighbors.

The problem would be if the end of the peninsula was completely cut off by the developed land. At this stage that doesn't seem to be the case.

[treestar]

37. But what's better about Canada?

Our system, for all its good points, has a weakness in being cumbersome. It might be cool to have a parliamentary type system where we could get rid of Dubya on a no confidence type of vote. But impeachment is much more cumbersome.

We can only expect that a Democratic Congress means Dubya is not the Decider after all. If you stayed for the six years where the repukes had all three branches, you can survive the next two years. At least there's no Patriot Act III threatening to pass.

Our system is just not so flexible. Dubya is still president. Impeaching him leaves us with Cheney. We'd have to do a double impeachment. Makes me think about the repukes, you'd think they'd have been more frightented of Gore as president than of Clinton.

[bluestateguy]

39. A lot of people blew smoke about leaving after 11/04.

I wonder how many people actually did it. I suspect not many. Talk is cheap.

[blues90]

41. At this point I would move to canada if I had the resources

As it is now in the US nothing makes sense and everything just continues to get worse .

I hadn't had much faith in the Dems even after november but now they have proved to be a failure with no back bone , there seems to be something holding them back and we just don;t know what this is .

Bush may even stay in power with the pending attack on Iran and his new power grab .

The huge corps are in control of our lives and income and this too does not look to promising .

The immigration bill is a joke , even though i have nothing against mexicans there comes a point of the wage being lowered for all because of this . I know many legal mexicans who hate the illegals so it's not a racial issue , it's a job and wage issue . Why should it be any different for white to feel the same way , the only solution is to bring jobs to mexico and give them back their oil profits but then look at their president .

I don't know how long Canada has before they fall too but it sure looks better now than here .

I don;t have any faith in the people of the US standing up for their rights in huge numbers , they are either unaware or afraid to take the risk , over time without the people taking action they will lose everything anyway , they are fools to think otherwise .

[MistressOverdone]

42. Ah, but the problem

always is, wherever you go...there you are.

You won't find a perfect political system anywhere. And you can work on yourself (the only thing you can change) anywhere.

And Canada isn't free of bigotry, itself. I come from a long line of French Canadians, and they were and are second class citizens.

[SammyWinstonJack]

51. I'd take Canada and it progressive mindset over this Country and it's current state of bigotry ,war

and pure greed any day of the week.

[MistressOverdone]

53. Canada is quite progressive

unless you are French or native.

Sorry, I was raised on horror tales and my folks left with bad feelings.

[librechik]

43. Go!

take the chance while you have it.

I was just traveling in Australia and it was really really hard to come back. America is a brutal place, and good folks are helpless.

I'd love to go back & live there if I got the chance...

[Megahurtz]

46. Go For CANADA!

and don't look back on this fucking joke of a Country.
I am so disgusted and sad today I feel like there is no hope here and no reason to be motivated.
There is no incentive here anymore. This Country spits on it's own Citizens.

If I had a chance to leave like you I would be gone in a flash.

Lucky you.

Seriously!

[Jed Dilligan]

49. I'll go wherever there's a paying job

I'm in no position to choose!

[JCMach1]

50. Left and have never looked back... my free time will find me

trekking around the foothills of Everest in Nepal in the next few weeks...