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VOTE ALERT: Dems Plan To HIDE Votes On Iraq Today (David Sirota)

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:29 AM
Original message
VOTE ALERT: Dems Plan To HIDE Votes On Iraq Today (David Sirota)
Edited on Thu May-24-07 09:45 AM by kpete
VOTE ALERT: Dick Cheney Dems Plan to Hide Votes On Iraq TODAY
by David Sirota | May 24 2007

Today is the day House Democrats are expected to vote on Iraq - except, news out of Washington this morning says the leadership has come up with a nifty little trick to try to prevent the public from seeing who voted for giving Bush a blank check, and who voted against it. If you thought Democrats were behaving like cowards by caving into a President at a three-decade low in presidential polling and giving him the very blank check they explicitly promised not to give him during the 2006 election, you ain't seen nothing yet. We are watching the rise of the Dick Cheney Democrats - that is, the rise of Democrats who endorse governing in secret and hiding the public's business from the public itself.

Here's how it is expected to work today in a process only Dick Cheney could love (though you never know - it could change). Every bill comes to the House floor with what is known as a "rule" that sets the terms of the debate over the legislation in question. House members first vote to approve this parliamentary rule, and then vote on the legislation. Today, however, Democrats are planning to include the Iraq Blank check bill IN the rule itself, meaning when the public goes to look for a vote on the Iraq supplemental bill, the public won't find that. All we will find is a complex parliamentary procedure vote. Lawmakers, of course, will then tell their angry constituents they really are using all of their power to end the war, and this vote on the rule - which was the real vote for war - wasn't really a vote on the war. It is a devious, deliberately confusing cherry on top of the manure sundae being served up to the American public, which voted Democrats into office on the premise that they would use their congressional majority to end the war.

...................

If this secretive behavior seems familiar, it should. You may recall that in the past two weeks, the same Democratic leadership that is now trying to hide its votes on Iraq negotiated a secret free trade deal with the White House, steamrolling its other key Election 2006 pledge to stop lobbyist-written trade policy. The legislative texts of the trade pacts in question remain concealed from the public, though K Street lobbyists have told reporters they have received "assurances" that any of the much-touted provisions that purport to protect labor and the environment will be written to be unenforceable.

more at:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/7661


This bill will allow "THEM" to vote yes in secret,
while declining to comment.


Two front-runners, Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois,
declined to say how they intended to vote on the measure
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070524/D8PANO100.html



Remember, all we need is 20 Democrats to vote no on the rule to send the bill down and start over. If that doesn't happen, then the question becomes which U.S. Senator is going to answer the "where's the beef?" question by putting their antiwar rhetoric into action by pulling an old-school, read-the-phonebook filibuster? Sens. Chris Dodd, John Kerry, Bernie Sanders and Russ Feingold seem to be girding for a big fight, while the Associated Press reports both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama "declined" to take a position. Will we see a real filibuster, or will we see capitulation in the upper chamber? Stay tuned.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/24/9255/80693
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. The news just gets better and better this week.
:sarcasm:

Recommended.
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woodsprite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. So that's what the D and C in "DLC" means! Guess the L stands for Lynn. n/t
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. so help me god, if they hide their vote I will take it as much worse than a "yes"
fuck a phone call, NightWatcher might have to make a trip to the dems' offices.


If they hide the vote, they are all dead to me. I will not support any dem who allows this to happen.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
78. Agreed and Well Said.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
156. Moi Aussi!
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. THAT'S WHY
no one who represents me would tell me how the senator or representative plans to vote.

The staff at all three offices were instructed to say they had no idea how their bosses planned to vote.

Snakes.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. Is this House only, or Senate too? Because I want to see how our
candidates vote.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I'm thinking the senate is up to something
as well. They've never surprised me, so I doubt today will be any different.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. INSULT to injury. Dayum. They are really playing us for fools.
This makes you throw up in your mouth.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Dick Cheney Democrats" That's going to stick and burn
K&R
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
59. Dick Cheney Democrats --- even better suggestion
DICKYcrats
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. Something smells of ass...
And I think it's this congress.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Maybe it should be spelled, "CongrASS."
:shrug:


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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
40. That putrid stink you smell is DLC
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DemDem07 Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
86. Did someone call O 42?
Bingo! We have a winner!

It's the centrism that is killing our party.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
117. Fuck the DLC
But then don't they count Gore and Edwards among their ranks? Or have they renounced the group since this list was published?

http://www.nndb.com/group/269/000093987/
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
70. Please, don't insult ass by making a comparsion like that. n/t
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #70
162. You're right. Sometimes ass is a truly wonderful thing which, on occasion,
I've likened to the essence of Lilac... Mmmmmm, Liiiiilac,,, with a thoooonnnng....
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. Accountability
That was a predominant reason I voted for dems across the board last November.

The cynicism expressed by the republicans about the democrats appears to have been well grounded.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Exactly.
... and that's why we may be doomed in 2008.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
10. Wow. If this is true, they're done.
If they really don't think that they wouldn't be called on this bullshit, they're stupider than I thought.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. Un-fucking-believable.
:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Not really. At this point, it's all believable too me.
:puke:
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
69. I'll second that....
:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

I had such hope that we would stand up to this president. :cry:
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. I ooze with contempt for these people
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. So they are scared of us.
Good.
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
71. They aren't scared of us
If they were, they'd be loudly and openly voting 'no'.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #71
139. Doesn't that work both ways?
If they weren't, why vote in secret?
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FailureFries Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
103. Or are they manipulating us
attempting to, at least

This is very disheartening. <-----an understatement
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. This move makes it look like they are thumbing their noses at the American public.
I guess I will have to call my congress person's office to find out how he voted on this bill. Otherwise, I guess I will have to assume he voted for it and I will then make sure I vote against him next election.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. It looks that way because they are.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
138. I expect Musgrave to ignore us,
as she makes it a point to ignore anyone who didn't contribute to her campaign.

But we contributed to and campaigned for all those Democrats, so why are they treating us like she does?
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blondie58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #138
149. welcome to Du madamesilverspurs!
and my condolences for having Marilyn Manson Musgrave as your congresswoman.
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BrainGlutton Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
142. And vote for the Republican? Our options are limited.
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blondie58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #142
150. and a big welcome to you too, BrainGlutton!
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
20. wow, i guess my threat worked ...
i emailed Pelosi first yesterday and let her know that i planned to use the designation Y or N on the vote for Iraq funding in my future voting decisions. Not D or R. Told her i was letting her know first since she is in the position she is, and that i would be sending the same message to my senators and reps.
Told her i was mad as hell and was not going to take it anymore, voting for the Iraq funding was NOT ACCEPTABLE and impeachment off the table: NOT ACCEPTABLE.

so i guess i'm not suprised to read this...

dp
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
21. Well, now that we know how the vote is going to be concealed, all we have to do
is see how they vote for the parliamentary rule. Then publish the results far and wide.

It's time we hold these people accountable, and most of them will be back home this weekend. I'm certain a lot of protesters showing up at their offices on Memorial Day, or at any public gatherings will get some media coverage.

These assholes need to REMEMBER WHO THEY WORK FOR!
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. They know who they work for
and it's not us.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. The other shoe just dropped.
If this proves true - we will now know how they planned to vote *their* interests while telling us they were supporting *us* and the troops.

Same song, "new" band.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
23. So, how's the weather?
Shitty enough for you yet?
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
35. The weather approaching is a storm of fascism with a chance of Nazism.
:scared: :scared: :scared: :shrug:
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. What's that line about saving up for a rainy day? Well, it's raining
:(
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
143. Yeah and the dry powder is screwn! n/t
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Ensalada Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
128. It's look kind of Green where I'm sitting.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
24. Democrat Dicks! Acccccccccccck puke!
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
26. I got the same response when I called my congressman
The office person does not know how Brian Baird is going to vote.


I let her have it! I was perfectly calm, but I let her know that if there is a plan to try to hide the votes or say they were voting for the rule rather than the Iraq spending bill, we, the people are onto it.

I also let her know I have no fondness for the DLC and that makes me not trust the DNC. I told her that IMO the DLC is not supporting the people of this country. They are tools of the corporations.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
54. "They are tools of the corporations."
Thom Hartmann calls the DLC the neocon infiltration of the democratic party. I certainly feel sold out. I'm calling Udall (CO) & tell him that this bill will determine if I support his senate run.

The corporations have devoured the soul of this nation.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #54
60. Lieberman's mission
accomplished.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
119. I think you can still trust the DNC.
It's still being run by Howard, right? The way I see, everytime one of Dean's plans works, DLC fucks come running to take credit. Well as I said above, fuck the DLC. DLC Democrats are not real democrats. That message needs to be spread far and wide.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. Well, if they were smart about it, those who had voted for the voted bill
would vote NO on this upcoming bill. Go ahead and show who is too scared to vote against "the troops" (which in reality is against Bush's foot stamping demands), and show those who vote to stand against Bush.

During the "debate", let the Cons put their remarks on the record. Let's find out if they really will praise it and the "Democrat Leadership", or choose to be the partisan 'opposition party' shills they are and criticize Democrats for folding. Once they're all finished, Democrats come to the microphone one after another stating, "Madam Speaker, without timelines that will bring a successful end to this misbegotten adventure, I will vote NO."

*sigh* I can dream anyway.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #27
66. I'll dream with you.
I would hope that would happen.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
28. no more spineless dems
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
29. i will NEVER vote for another democrat EVER AGAIN!
Ralph Nader was IS right- there's not a gaddamn bit of difference between ANY of these corportist ASSHOLES. Let the repugs rule the roost until revolution or global warming changes everything.

FUCK. THEM. ALL!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
39. Try the dems on the Progressive caucus.
Third party is a dead end because of the system unless there were some sort of huge mass movement.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #29
63. That just makes the immigrants for their 'immigrant detention camps'.
For 'immigrants' read 'dissenters'.

Whatever. Given how 'connecting the dots' to suss out any bad dealings isn't adding up, don't expect me to find a pitchfork anytime soon. For one thing, knowing I can't even play chess without losing by the 12th move, to start guessing what the world's leaders are doing is just as pointless, if not even more so.

And neither should you. You might be wrong.


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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
73. This is the vote that will prove or disprove Nader's assertion
We shall see....
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
159. "Never"? Do you always believe in collective punishment?
Don't fail to recognize the good ones on account of the (numerous) bad apples.
I believe in judging the individuals based on their own actions, not on their label.
It's not very effective to fail to separate the "wheat from the chaff" and that is a big part of what allows our political system to be the sham that it is.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
30. If this is true, and if this goes through, I'm done
Not a dime, not a minute of time.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
31. I'm getting full voice mail boxes and no answers on the vote
the bastards are avoiding us.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
32. What a bunch of cowards.....
they don't even have the courage to stand up for what they vote for.

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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
33. Could someone be a dear and please explain...
What is the difference between a Democrat and a Republican? I seem to be missing something here.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. Democrats have dry powder
:shrug: In a nuclear world...
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Aha! Thanks for the clarification
It is nice to know that there actually is a difference between them. :hi:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
34. I have no Democratic representation (literally, I'm from AZ). What can I do
to register my will?

Call/e-mail the DNC? What can those of us with no Dem reps do to make the Dem leadership listen to us?
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
49. start here
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Thanks. Calling Reid and Pelosi's offices now.
Calling my own reps (make that Reps) just isn't worth my time or dime; I know where they stand.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
52. Click this link!! You do have Dems!!
Edited on Thu May-24-07 10:50 AM by Breeze54
Arizona in the 110th Congress (1st Session)

Residents of Arizona are represented in Congress by 2 Senators and 8 Representatives.

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/newseek.cgi?site=ctc&state=az

Representative Ed Pastor (D - 04) -- 202-225-4065 -- 202-225-1655 http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Representative Harry Mitchell (D - 05) -- 202-225-2190 -- 202-225-3263 http://mitchell.house.gov/

Representative Raul Grijalva (D - 07) -- 202-225-2435 -- 202-225-1541 http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D - 08) -- 202-225-2542 -- 202-225-0378 http://giffords.house.gov/IMA/issue_subscribe.htm
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
36. Bean's receptionist was stunned silent when I read her the opening
paragraph of Sirota's piece. She has no idea how Bean is going to vote, but took my name and number and will get back to me if she finds anything out. :eyes:
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
37. The Senate isn't voting today--only the House
nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
41. Do we know if this is true?
:(
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
112. Actually, we know it isn't true
But that's not slowing down the outrage, is it?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. I appreciate your moderation, onenote. n/t
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
42. Well, we'll know how one Dem votes for sure
Look for the 'Present' vote, that'll be Kucinich, who refuses on principle to vote for any war funding. He's one of the precious few Dems I support at this point (and that number's shrinking fast).

It will be fascinating to see how the Dem apologists spin this if it happens as DailyKos says.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
43. Astounding! What an incredibly cowardly move....
It won't be properly covered either... because it will take 15 minutes to explain it BEFORE they can talk about the actual vote.
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
44. Dirty f*^&#@s!
how 'bout a little salt to go with that wound?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
45. Well, at least they still have a sense of shame
No sense of honor, responsibility, courage or duty, but at least a sense of shame.

They know that what they're doing is wrong. They know that they're going against the wishes of the people. And they want to cover it all over. Fuck 'em, dishonarble bastards.

I know that DK won't vote for this betrayal, but this sort of shit will provide cover for others who will. Bastards are playing politics with people's lives.

Do they really want to lose the election in '08? Because it is this sort of shit that will cause them to lose in a major way, and may even mark the rise of a third party to take their place.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
47. OK, I'm going to ask it again
How much are you willing to put up with before you realize the ruse for what it truly is??

You can only be hoodwinked if you allow yourselves to be.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
48. Fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuckin' mother fuckers!! :grr: :grr: :nuke:
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
53. K&R
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
55. Perhaps we should treat our Democratic membership cards like draft cards in the 60's....
... and go out and publicly burn them and then show Green Party registrations that we all en masse go reregister for! Perhaps we can talk the Green Party into having some very VISIBLE green registration cards that will be recognizable at a distance so that we can all do this at once.

We'll just say then (perhaps in t shirts too) "YOU ABANDON US! WE'LL ABANDON YOU!!!"
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
56. Congressman Meeks denied this on Washington Journal this morning
I sure hope he didn't lie.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. That's what I was going to post. I heard him say the votes would be RECORDED AND OPEN.
It's on tape....there's proof he said it.:)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. He was unclear. He seemed to say there would be two votes
and then mumbled. :shrug:
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
58. I'm typing up resignation letter to my DEC right now.
I called and e-mailed the DCCC and the DSCC yesterday and told them to remove me from all of their contact and fundraising lists if this bill passes.

I may give Kucinich some money this week-end when he's in town. I TIVOed his speech yesterday so I could watch it with my wife last night. Awesome. One guy who stands on principal.
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Sukie1941 Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #58
113. Pleeeeeze! Don't abbreviate!
"I'm typing up resignation letter to my DEC right now.

I called and e-mailed the DCCC and the DSCC yesterday and told them to remove me from all of their contact and fundraising lists if this bill passes.

Then there is the DNC, the DLC, and on and on!

I have no clue what you are talking about1 Not all of us are so cool that we understand all this stuff.

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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #113
123. Definitions
Edited on Thu May-24-07 02:38 PM by FatDave
DCCC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Congressional_Campaign_Committee
DSCC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Senatorial_Campaign_Committee
DLC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council
DNC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee

I don't know what the DEC is either. :(

On Edit: Anybody who does not know what the DLC is needs to educate themselves right now. Start with the Wikipedia article above, then do some google searching.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
61. Where are all the DLC apologists today?
Seems pretty quiet on the right-wing of the Underground.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. They're protecting the troops. n/t
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #65
88. lol
:) for the craziness of it all
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #88
108. You got it!
:)

:hi:
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porque no Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #65
110. More like killin' em.
There's plenty of blood to go around, cowards, just dip your hands in the barrel.
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DemDem07 Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #61
87. Probably still trying to explain the Iowa caucus to Iowans
like myself.

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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
62. Their contempt for their constituents is overwhelming
I feel another special comment from KO in the works.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES CONGRESS HAVE AGAINST REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #62
72. They represent the highest bidder.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
67. Who is behind this nonsense?
Hoyer was behind the secret trade deal and had a lot to do with the "compromise" Iraq funding bill. He need to be booted from his leadership position.
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
68. If they actually do this, they are all dead to me.
I'm already _thisclose_ to bailing, this would be the final straw. If you want to vote 'yes', at least have the balls to do it publicly. But trying to hide the vote? I can't deal with that.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
74. Howard Dean needs to have a little talk with them
Howard should tell them to stop acting this way.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #74
125. Howard should resign in protest.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
75. If the individuals will not be held accountable, I will hold the entire party accountable.
And I'll never vote for another Democrat. If the party as a whole is willing to do this kind of thing to protect the corrupt, then they're all equally undeserving of my support.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
76. All part of the same junta now
Where did I put my armband...
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
77. They counted (and took) your vote - you deserve to know theirs!
Edited on Thu May-24-07 12:12 PM by RiverStone
I don't fully understand this, but it sure blurs the lines between DEMS and rethugs.

If this goes down the way Sirota says, this could be the fuse to light a wave of 3rd party sentiment which could undermine the sweeping DEM victory of 06. They must vote in the light and on the record!!!

Be careful DEMS on The Hill, your playing with big fire and could get burned in 08. :think:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. They are confident they won't lose their seats. Why you say?
The Holt Bill is the first time that any legislation will mandate and lock in secret vote counting.
Experience at the local level with audits, recounts, and litigation, and the recent dismissal by the House Administration Committee of three Federal Election Contests, has shown us that once there is a secret vote count, there is no effective remedy.

Unfortunately, this bill is being supported by groups who have looked only at the candy coating, and not at the poison concealed within.

It would be a terrible mistake to discard democracy in the name of purported incrementalism or so-called political realities.

Holt/Lofgren is a direct descendent of HAVA, and is even more harmful and dangerous. The author of HAVA is in prison, and HAVA should have been repealed and repudiated on that basis alone, not amended or revised.

Please take a few moments to watch Mark Crispin Miller's deconstruction of Holt, and think about it carefully. This is something that once done, cannot easily be undone.

Thank you.



http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/

the vlog is on the right.
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Jesterstear Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
79. And yet you will all still vote for them again and again....
When you ask yourself in bewilderment "how can people still vote for Bush and his Republican cronies," think about this day and how you will still vote for Democrats, even as they piss all over you. You both do it for the same reason - the other side scares you that much. Your elected officials know this, and they rely on it.

This will continue until a viable 3rd party hits the scene (and the Greens and Libertarians certainly are not viable), but good luck to anyone trying to make that happen, as the Repubs and Dems have shown time and time again that they will quickly unite to destroy anyone looking to join their exclusive little club.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Could everyone please read this post?
Over and over and over again.

Don't stop reading until you "get it."

Thank you.
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petunia.here Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #79
96. Exactly!
And yet the third party candidate hiding in the dem party who represents just about everything we here at DU want is marginalized just as the MSM does. We're really no better. I just don't get it.

Why don't more people see that we need to work a little outside the system to get what we want. It takes a lot of money to run a campaign like the powers that be want. We don't need it. We don't have to run a campaign like they do. Forget the top tier candidates. That term alone denotes who we're supposed to pay attention to - and guess what? Most of us do. We follow like little sheep and at the same time say we're independent thinkers. Do we really think they're our answer to our prayers? Hell No!
Just look at all the apologists who have to come to their defenses after pretty much any issue of great importance. If you feel like you need to apologize now just wait 'til their in the oval office. :eyes:


Democratic "underground" my ass. Democratic mainstream is more like it as far as the horse race is concerned. Maybe I was expecting too much? Maybe I don't really belong here? I dunno. *sigh*

I'm feeling frustrated, defeated, helpless, mad as hell and powerful all at once. Such a confusing time.

I need a political break. It's eating me alive.
So hard to stay away...

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Nightjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #79
141. YOU NAILED IT!
Holy Shit!
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #79
153. You speak the truth.
The question is how do we get a viable third party that represents us? I would think that such a party would need a very highly respected, high-profile leader in order to attract both candidates and voters. And such a party would have to start from the bottom (local level) and work its way up to city, county, statewide, and national elections. That would take at least a decade, which still leaves us with stale and stalemate to choose from in the meantime.
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solara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
82. This must be the "Transparency in Government" the Democrats promised us
Thursday, January 4. 2007 ( From the text of Nancy Pelosi's speech to Congress upon her election as Speaker of the House)

<snip>

"In order to achieve our new America for the 21st Century, we must return this House to the American people. So our first order of business is passing the toughest congressional ethics reform in history. This new Congress doesn't have two years or 200 days.

"Let us join together in the first 100 hours to make this Congress the most honest and open Congress in history - 100 hours.

"This openness requires respect for every voice in the Congress. As Thomas Jefferson said, 'Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle.' My colleagues elected me to be Speaker of the House -- the entire House. Respectful of the vision of our Founders, the expectations of our people, and the great challenges that we face, we have an obligation to reach beyond partisanship to work for all Americans.

(emphasis mine)

INVESTIGATE IMPEACH INDICT IMPRECATE INCARCERATE :banghead:
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
83. I know a little about House procedures and this doesn't make a lot of sense
Even if the supplemental is included in the "Rule" there would still have to be a vote on the bill that contains the supplemental. And while that vote could be a voice vote, its not that hard for members to demand and get a recorded vote.

My guess -- and its only a guess -- is that there will be a recorded vote. And my guess -- and its only a guess -- is that we'll be surprised by how many Democrats vote against it, particularly in the Senate. In the Senate, I suspect a number of Democrats who are not up for reelection in 2008 or who are from solidly blue states will feel comfortable voting against the compromise having already voted for funding with a timetable. This will force repubs to vote for, even if that vote could come back to hurt them in the future. In the House, the number of Democrats to vote against the compromise will probably be smaller because they are all up for reelection in 2008, but will still be significant.

Just guesses on my part.
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. I think the point is that there will be two votes
but the first vote would stop anyone from adding anything but money amendment, so no one could attempt to add a timeline amendment. Many Dems will vote yes to the rule but no to the bill itself, because they think some Dems might get a timeline amendment passed. They know that without a timeline the Repugs along with a few Dems in constituencies where it won't hurt them, can pass the legislation and the President won't veto it. Their danger is the Dems that might try a timeline amendment. I think Sirota is wrong and the Repugs will vote yes on the rule.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. well, that's a far cry from a "secret vote" on the supplemental
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #93
126. Actually it's much better than a secret vote
Otherwise someone would definitely add a timeline amendment and then a vote would have to be taken on that amendment, the Dems would have to go on record. Since some actually want the bill to pass(by mostly Repug votes), but want to also be able to vote no on it, they would have to vote no on the amendment for timelines(otherwise no Repug votes and a veto), which would out them for what they are. This way certain Dems can vote no, knowing that the bill will pass, because enough Repugs will vote for it. They won't be forced to show they are actually willing to vote individually to not add timelines, this way they can blame the leadership for the deal, but not have to show they actually agree with it.
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petunia.here Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
84. Yellow belly Cowards.
We have more power than we give ourselves credit for. This is why they hide.

I've been beyond pissed off the last several days. This whole mess is going to be left up to we the people to kick the crooks out of OUR houses! We literally have a handful of political allies in Congress. The rest is up to us! I just hope enough of us are up to the task.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
85. Paging KERRY KENNEDY FIENGOLD SAUNDERS DODD
Show me the filibuster! Show me the courage! Any non rat worms that I missed in my page?
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
90. A 'No' vote would, eventually, kill the GOP. Don't these Dems get it ?
The public sure understands this. Two more years of this in Iraq ? More 'surges' ? A new special appropriation every three months ? The steady drip drip drip is Chinese Water Torture on the GOP.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
91. The Democrats are THIS close to losing me
I would expect this kind of tactic from Republicans, but for Democrats to hide their votes from the very voters who put them in office?!?!? Wow. I'm seriously shocked. They had better not do this! :grr:
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
92. UGH! I am just seething.
:nuke:
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
94. If they won't do what we elected them to do, they should be removed from office.
Edited on Thu May-24-07 01:24 PM by Fridays Child
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #94
111. that's what elections are for
Of course, the issue is whether more people want them to do what they are doing than are against them doing it. We'll find out in Nov 2008, I guess.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
95. The fundamental question is WHY do they want to hide their votes?
Edited on Thu May-24-07 01:30 PM by calipendence
If their rationale for voting for this bill is to "support the troops", and not go against the will of the voters, then they should proudly stand behind their vote.

IF though, they ARE concerned about a MAJORITY of their constituents being opposed to what they are voting for, then YES, I can see why they might try to hide their vote! And WHY would they go against a majority of their voters? BECAUSE they are BOUGHT AND PAID FOR by K-Street lobbyists!

We need Clean Elections at the federal level NOW! Let's talk Feingold and other progressives into putting that onto the Senate floor! We'll then see if they try to hide their vote again (and expose that they are bought and paid for!) or if they will stand up and be counted and give reasons why they support or don't support such legislation!
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. They're trying - and failing - to hide their complicity.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #95
105. No, the fundamental question is whether this story is true
There was a recorded vote on the "rule" -- which is to say that there was a recorded vote on the motion to bring up the supplemental approps bill for debate and consideration. From my sources on the hill, nothing in the rule precludes there from a being a recorded vote on the actual approps bill itself.

Could this be another example where DUers go apeshit over a bullshit story? Seems likely.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #105
121. "Could this be another example where DUers go apeshit over a bullshit story?"
:rofl: Indeed! I think we need an "apeshit" smiley for such occasions.
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #105
131. The famous DU headless chicken dance?
There are worse entertainments. :+
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
97. Only 7 Democrats voted against the rule:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. thanks for this link (& in the other thread as well)
God bless you my friend:kick:
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. Okay, I must be missing something
Doesn't Pelosi vote on these rules? I honestly don't know the inner workings of all this.
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #97
127. Barbara Lee, Lynn Woolsey, Maxine Waters didn't vote no - so, I doubt it's so relevant
what DK only votes. I tend to go by Barbara Lee (sole Afghanistan war resister)
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #127
130. Waters voted NO
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MzNov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
100. This story has to be the OUTRAGE du jour !!! And it ain't even Noon!!!!

kick to high heaven!!!

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
102. Go ahead I say and then DEMAND to ask how they voted
and if they lie...they will lose for sure. If they do it in secret then at every stop they make we ask them how they voted until they say...and then we wait for it to come out. Nothing is kept secret like this as republicans would love nothing better than to tell on the pres hopefuls....
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
104. The article Sirota points to doesn't appear to back up his assertion?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. that's because Sirota doesn't know what he's talking about
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #107
118. It would appear that this is the case.
I find no verification of his assertion anywhere?
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
106. JUST WHO THE HELL DO THEY WORK FOR??
Would you allow your employee to hide things from you to work against your wishes behind your back? THEY WORK FOR US GAWD DAMMIT! HOW DARE THEY KEEP ANYTHING FROM ME.

They have no right to keep this vote secret, they work for us. This stinks to high heaven...stinks of deceit, betrayal. All I can think to say is obscene. I want to kick something....

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. If you would stop screaming and read the whole thread, you'd know Sirota is wrong
There is nothing "secret" about the vote, nor could there be. There was a recorded vote earlier today on the "rule" -- the motion to take up consideration and debate on the supplemental approps bill. It passed with a handful of Democrats voting no. All but two repubs voted no, which ought to suggest something to you if stop and think about it.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #109
136. Thanks
:::paper bag to face::: Breathe breathe, breathe. I'll read it all. Its been a rough few days.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
114. I think this post is very un-fair! You have lumped 3 different issues under 1 inflammatory headline
First, The House vote: That's only half of the story. The other half is that if the House Dems who vote against the Iraq Funding bill are also voting AGAINST RAISING the Minimum Wage!

I'm not sure how this came to be, but because of this, the House Democrats are "caught between the Scylla and Charibdes," it's a no-win situation.

Second, the AP's ANNE FLAHERTY either needs a basic Civics lesson or is just being very deceptive in her article. Or is it you that is trying to deceive us here?

Because, by the way you edited your post, adding "Two front-runners, Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois, declined to say how they intended to vote on the measure..." you are implying that "Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama..." will be voting during the same HOUSE vote or on the same House bill, they won't, because they can't. They are not members of THE HOUSE. The Vote in the Senate has different rules and will have different problems to contend with.

You then add insult to injury by cherry-picking a quote from someone's post from DailyKos, which is usually pure opinion. :mad:

PLUS, all of this mean very little, because both bills still have to go to Conference where the final bill is written, THEN, when they vote on that conference bill, the final bill, that's the vote that actually means something. There is a lot of stuff going on in Congress we never see, that just how it's set up and how it has worked for most of it's history.

Common "kpete." You have a following now here at DU. We expect much better from you.:spank:
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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. And this is different from any other day because....
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #114
129. If you read The Hill article, they actually won't be voting against minimum wage
There will be two votes, the first for the Iraq Spending, and if that passes a second vote on the rest of the spending including the minimum wage. That way Republicans can mostly vote yes on Iraq money, and no on the rest, and Democrats can mostly vote no on Iraq spending and yes on the rest. So they tried to broker a deal that they all can try to look their best politically.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #129
132. Yes, but as I tried to point out, that is NOT how it will work in the Senate...
...which is why blending these 3 articles is so unfair. What the "news" should be reporting is how it got this way, but that would require some effort.
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #132
134. I was actually responding to the false assertion that House Dems
would be voting against minimum wage if they vote against the Iraq spending, they will not be forced to. This whole deal was brokered so that everyone can come out of it looking fairly decent, despite the fact that they might not be, I do agree that it was unfair of the OP to link in the Senators, as they aren't directly involved yet. Though since this has all the earmarks of a very well orchestrated piece, designed to be able to fund Bushes war, while allowing individual reps to say "I voted against Iraq spending", I'm sure some had some say in how it would go down.
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
120. Horsepuckey! Sirota makes up s* it here. before reacting, see this DU news thread:
Edited on Thu May-24-07 02:33 PM by The Count
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
122. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll be watching.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
124. Insult to Injury...it just keeps getting worse...n/t
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #124
133. Sissy-crats...sounds more like it
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
135. Something is wrong and rotten with this
All votes should be made public... We have a right to see how our elected officials vote... Hope these assholes enjoy it, cause I am not voting for any of them again unless they change their course and I mean now....
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #135
140. what is wrong and rotten is SIrota's understanding of House procedures
There will be a recorded, public vote on the supplemental approps bill. Period.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
137. I refuse to support any candidate who supports this war bill.
End of story. This has become my bottom line on party loyalty.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #137
144. AGREED, WONDERING HOW OBAMA/CLINTON DONATORS FEEL IF THEY VOTE YES???
will they get on the DK or JE bandwagon after this extreme betrayal that will happen IF they vote yes? I have a feeling they may hear from their base that this is a heinous attack on the country's will, however, so we'll see, but if they vote yes, are you Clinton/Obama folks going to reject them? Man, Gore, Dodd, Kucinich, and my current pick of those running, Edwards, looks better every day... The DICK CHENEY DEMOCRATS are scaring my belief in our party.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- check it out, top '08 stuff
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Bretttido Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
145. Stupid and Innacurate Article
Attempting to get people into a rage about something that simply is not the case. The knee-jerk reactions to the story were somewhat ammusing though.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
146. ummm House rules differ from the Senate
So how the hell do they talk about House voting rules then blame Obama or Hillary who are in the Senate????
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
147. So was this all a game to begin with?
Have we already been in a one-party system for years? Decades?

Political theater? This set of actors will appease this part of the population as this set takes care of the other - but all part of the same acting troupe.

Looking and more like that to me.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
148. Cowardly, sell-out Fucks
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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
151. Fuck all those Democratic Congresspeople Who Voted YES!
Where's your spine! Stand up and fight back instead of rolling over to die. You all make me sick
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hurtsolong Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #151
152. The HELL with the coward and spineless Democratic Party!
In 2008, I will vote straight Republicans. This comes from a life filled with Democratic belief. At least the Republicans have the gut and courage to fight for what they believe, even when their belief is wrong. After 2008, I will no longer be involved with politics. No matter what direction our country is heading to, I don't give a DAMN!
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #152
155. lol
You're too funny! Idiot.
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hurtsolong Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #155
161. Gristy
If you want to get into the war of words, so be it! Impeach Now my ass. Talk is so cheap, don't you know that "Idiot?" KO as well as everyone else will never touch Bush as long as our spineless Democratic Congress will not do anything. Look at the Gonzalez case. Look at the Valerie Plum case. Loot at so many other unethical cases. What have we done? Nothing. This is not meant to be funny stupid Gristy. I am no longer in support of this Democratic Party. If you think it makes you feel good by calling others "Idiot," right back at you SOB!
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BulletproofLandshark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #152
160. Nice Try
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KingBob Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
154. KO Last Night - Brilliant
Dems - not so much

A friend was quoted (http://www.socialistworker.org/2005-2/557/557_06_GulfCoastBlog.shtml) as saying, “The good news is that the Republicans will lose Congress. The bad news is that the Democrats are going to win.”

It's a shame he was right.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
157. For that matter ...
Why haven't they really, seriously fixed our broken election process and restored habeas corpus?
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #157
158. And for that matter ...
why haven't U.S. marshalls taken Gonzales into custody?
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