I don't get why people think Hillary Clinton would have been any better

[Syrinx]

I just don't get it.

She hired Mark Penn to run her campaign. And Doug Schoen, Fox's second favorite "Democratic strategist." after Pat Caddell.

I'm not sure about these guys. They are either guys who are fake Democrats, or men who pretend to be fake Democrats for Fox News. Think about that.

And the first Clinton president hired the toe sucker for political advice.

And Bob Rubin to run the banks. :shrug:

Bill Clinton did some good things as president. But he also was a cheerleader for Wall Street. A cheater for Wall Street, letting them go on the same old GOP course, unbridled by obstacles.

Is there any real reason the wife would think much differently? Especially considering all her shady connections.

President Obama has been a little bit disappointing, so far, no doubt. Yet, sincerely I say, I doubt that the situation would be any better if Hillary had won.

[Xipe Totec]

1. So why are you keeping the topic alive?

It seems counterproductive.

[Syrinx]

2. sorry

[Syrinx]

3. in the playful spirit, I might suck a toe

But to go out of your way to suck toes, isn't that kind of weird?

Not that there's anything wrong with it.

:)

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Saturday]

5. Because she doesn't take shit and has balls. nt

[mdmc]

6. At least she didnt offer any hope

[rucky]

7. Well, today especially, I'm glad she's SOS

and not some chickenhawk freak.

[Bucky]

8. The grass is always greener

Clinton's doing a great job as Secretary of State. I admire her, but I don't regret my vote for Obama one bit.

It would've been different if we'd nominated Wes Clark, though.

[Meldread]

9. She wouldn't have.

There wasn't a huge difference between Hillary and Obama; it was always a matter of degree.

When it came to things like National Security and Foreign Wars, Obama is to the RIGHT of us, but Hillary is to the RIGHT of him.

When it came to Wall Street and big Corporate Interests, Obama is to the RIGHT of us, but Hillary is to the RIGHT of him.

Where Hillary offers something that Obama does not is in her political tactics. She isn't diluted enough to think Republican's are her friend; she'd be willing to fuck them up if necessary to get things done. So it could be argued that she'd be more politically savvy and aggressive.

However, this brings forth the question: What does the left want more - someone who is going to attack Republicans, or someone further to the left?

[mazzarro]

10. In Total Agreement Here!

IMO the left wants leaders that will stop the rightward tilt of the political scale and start making effort to balance it and start tilting it leftward for a change. The rightward tilt has been in place since the Reagan years and it is about time some balance come into play.

[TheWraith]

12. I need to disagree.

Hillary had a regular prayer group with people like Tom Coburn, and regularly crossed the aisle to side with the Reps on issues of the war, foreign policy, spending, morality, etcetera. I don't think it's accurate to assume she would be bare-knuckle fighting.

As to the rest, anyone who can actually get elected outside of EXTREMELY safe Democratic districts is to the right of almost all DUers.

[Meldread]

23. I agree with that.

What I think is important to realize is that in the Senate you have to be cooperative to get things done. Cooperation is rewarded with success. Being President is a whole different barrel of fish. She's a Clinton. When her former Senate "allies" turned on her - and they would, politics and the structure of our government would have ensured it - Hillary would have fucked them over as she would have any other enemy.

But you're completely right when it comes to how she acted in the Senate. It's difficult to say just how far right she would have been as President, but it's doubtful - based upon how far she was willing to reach across the isle in the Senate, her campaign, and her public statements even now - that she would have been to the left of Obama. That was really my point, in the end whatever benefit we would have gotten out of a Hillary Clinton Presidency we would find ourselves further to the right than we already are with Obama - and we're already strongly at odds with him.

[HughBeaumont]

11. I don't get it either.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/32">Hillary was and is less of an economic progressive than her husband and voted on a lot of war issues out of political expediency.

[AndrewP]

13. Well, I could do without the Clinton bashing, but.....

I think it's a topic that some won't let go of, on both sides.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a moot point. President Obama is the President and even though I supported Clinton in the Primaries I'm much more interested in seeing President Obama succeed than reliving 2008. I dropped that issue in June 2008. I wish others could do the same.

[polmaven]

19. + 1 gazillion

This is really getting way beyond "old". My feelings are exactly the same as yours.

[marmar]

14. Self-delusional fantasies.....

..... it would have been like comparing a Dodge Stratus to a Chrysler Cirrus.

[blondeatlast]

22. Nailed it. Since my two favorites dropped before the AZ primary, I was undecided until

I was in the booth. I think I made the wisest choice I could under the circumstances--I chose the candidate most likely to beat McCain--that was the best I could do by then.

[eridani]

15. I wound up supporting Ovama because his campaign featured actual organizers--

--rather than the likes of Mark Penn. Both are corporatists supported by Wall Street. In retrospect, one advantage of Clinton would have been that she understands that the right wing is an actual enemy, though.

[DainBramaged]

16. "Especially considering all her shady connections?"

Are you going to next tell us she killed Vince Foster?

With that line above, your credentials reached zero.

[Syrinx]

32. don't be silly

I happen to think Mark Penn is one shady dude, though I'm pretty sure he didn't help Hillary Clinton commit murder.

[The Doctor.]

17. The only real difference would have been made by Dennis Kucinich

Who would have been impeached or otherwise 'indisposed' by the PTB by now.

[dsc]

18. On two issues that I care deeply about she would have been better

On education, she campaigned against merit pay and against charter schools, vs what Obama has done in those regards. No way she would have appointed Arne Duncan nor would her education secretary have supported the firing of an entire school to break a union.

I also think she would have been way better on gay rights. I think DADT would be gone by now and we would have had ENDA as well.

[rug]

20. She saw through bipartisanship early on.

[BolivarianHero]

21. Hillary would have been worse...

Her connections to the Family and other far-right factions add an ironic bit of credibility to Rush Limbaugh's "Hitlery" slurs.

[Still a Democrat]

24. President Obama has done well, as Hillary would have

I doubt there would have been much difference.

[jancantor]

25. To this day, she won't admit her vote in re Iraq

was wrong

[asdjrocky]

26. Me neither.

On the other hand, Obama has been way more disappointing than just a little bit. Of course, I've now learned that I would have gotten pretty much the same corporate crap from anyone we elected. It's just the way our system is now.

President Obama has been just as huge a disappointment as any one of them would have been. Period.

Your attempt at boosting Obama at the expense of other corporate politicians is silly.

[Syrinx]

31. I never attempted to "boost" Obama

And I don't know why I even brought it up.

I said he is disappointing.

I think our whole system is broken, corrupt and disgusting. And I don't have much hope that it will ever be fixed.

When Obama was running, I thought he was different. I thought he was an honest, non-corporate candidate that was finally going to fix everything. I guess I was stupid for thinking that. But I already knew that the Clintons were corrupt, corporate stooges. They're a whole bunch better than the Republicans, but that's not saying much.

We've come to a point where we have two parties that are racing to drown America. The Republicans are just in a little bit more of a rush to do it.

I'll have to look over my OP to make sure, but I didn't mean to say that Obama is better than HRC would've been. I was only saying that HRC wouldn't have been any better than BHO.

[asdjrocky]

34. Sorry for the snark.

I think many of us are seeing what is happening to our country and its people, and it's putting us all on edge.

[Bobbie Jo]

36. I think I see the problem...

Apparently you didn't include a sufficient amount of Obama discontent. As a result, your OP seemed vague, and you left yourself open to scrutiny, snark, and unnecessary unrec'ing.

I see someone has already asked for clarification so as to assist you with the proper narrative.

With a few minor adjustments, such errors and omissions can be avoided in the future.

Thanks for your help!

:sarcasm: :P

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. The one thing Obama had going for him in the primaries was that he wasn't Hillary.

Other than that they're both ambitious professional politicians that are better at wooing the right and "compromising" than running the government.

[Romulox]

28. I would've been a *little* bit less disappointed in Hillary, even given the exact same actions.

Only because I know that she and her husband represent the heart and soul of the "centrist" DLC. That's the only difference.

[Rowdyboy]

29. In all honesty, if I could cast my 2008 primary vote again, I would vote differently....

I don't believe Hillary Clinton would have pissed away two years "reaching out in a spirit of bipartisanship". After being spit on by Boener and McConnell a few times she would have faced reality and fought back. And that would be a HUGE improvement over the present situation.

Yes the Clintons were too close to corporatists, bankers and Wall Street but Obama is no better. At least the Clintons aren't timid.

I refuse to dignify the "her shady connections" with a response. This is a Democratic message board after all and I refuse to recycle Newt Gingrich's vomit.

[ecstatic]

30. I think it's racial nt

[Skittles]

33. well we will never know, will we?

[deaniac21]

35. Carville says because she has a pair.