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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:17 AM
Original message
Invoking universal jurisdiction torture investigations an "irritant" to US/Spain relationship


JUNE 2009

SUBJECT: SCENESETTER FOR DHS. SEC. NAPOLITANO'S JULY 1 MEETINGS IN MADRID


//US-SPAIN RELATIONS//


"One recent irritant in bilateral relationship is are the efforts by some investigating judges - invoking "universal jurisdiction" - to indict former USG officials for their allegedly involvement in torture at GTMO (Ref D)."







March 28, 2009

Spanish Court Weighs Inquiry on Torture for 6 Bush-Era Officials

A Spanish court has taken the first steps toward opening a criminal investigation into allegations that six former high-level Bush administration officials violated international law by providing the legal framework to justify the torture of prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, an official close to the case said.

The case, against former Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and others, was sent to the prosecutor’s office for review by Baltasar Garzón, the crusading investigative judge who ordered the arrest of the former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. The official said that it was “highly probable” that the case would go forward and that it could lead to arrest warrants


Spain can claim jurisdiction in the case because five citizens or residents of Spain who were prisoners at Guantánamo Bay have said they were tortured there. The five had been indicted in Spain, but their cases were dismissed after the Spanish Supreme Court ruled that evidence obtained under torture was not admissible.

The National Court in Madrid, which specializes in international crimes, assigned the case to Judge Garzón. His acceptance of the case and referral of it to the prosecutor made it likely that a criminal investigation would follow, the official said.


March 29, 2009

Spanish judge to hear torture case against six Bush officials

The case is bound to threaten Spain's relations with the new administration in Washington, but Gonzalo Boyé, one of the four lawyers who wrote the lawsuit, said the prosecutor would have little choice under Spanish law but to approve the prosecution.

"The only route of escape the prosecutor might have is to ask whether there is ongoing process in the US against these people," Boyé told the Observer. "This case will go ahead. It will be against the law not to go ahead."

The officials named in the case include the most senior legal minds in the Bush administration. They are: Alberto Gonzales, a former White House counsel and attorney general; David Addington, former vice-president Dick Cheney's chief of staff; Douglas Feith, who was under-secretary of defence; William Haynes, formerly the Pentagon's general counsel; and John Yoo and Jay Bybee, who were both senior justice department legal advisers.

If Garzón decided to go further and issued arrest warrants against the six, it would mean they would risk detention and extradition if they travelled outside the US. It would also present President Barack Obama with a serious dilemma. He would have either to open proceedings against the accused or tackle an extradition request from Spain.


April 29, 2009

Spanish court opens investigation of Guantánamo torture allegations

A court in Spain has today opened an investigation into torture allegations against US military personnel at the Guantánamo detention centre.

Judge Baltasar Garzón, an investigating magistrate at the National Court in Madrid, said he would investigate allegations made by four detainees who were held at the centre and later released without charges, according to a court document quoted by the Spanish press.

The torture allegations include "sexual abuse", "beating" and the throwing of fluids into prisoners' eyes.

A recent decision by the Obama administration to release documents about Guantánamo helped the judge conclude that a police investigation, which could lead to criminal charges, was necessary.











November 30, 2010

Wikileaks: US pressured Spain over CIA rendition and Guantánamo torture


US officials tried to influence Spanish prosecutors and government officials to head off court investigations into Guantánamo Bay torture allegations, secret CIA "extraordinary rendition" flights and the killing of a Spanish journalist by US troops in Iraq, according to secret US diplomatic cables.

Among their biggest worries were investigations pursued by the magistrate Baltasar Garzón, who US officials described as having "an anti-American streak".

A major worry was a torture case brought by a Spanish non-governmental organisation against six senior Bush administration officials, including the former attorney general Alberto Gonzales.

Senator Mel Martinez, a former Republican party chairman, and the US embassy's charge d'affaires visited the Spanish foreign ministry to warn the investigation would have consequences. "Martinez and the charge underscored that the prosecutions would ... have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship," the officials reported.






April 7, 2010

Profile: Judge Baltasar Garzon


Mr Garzon came to worldwide attention in the late 1990s, when the former Chilean military ruler Augusto Pinochet was arrested in London on his initiative.

He was acting under Spain's principle of universal jurisdiction, which holds that some crimes are so grave that they can be tried anywhere regardless of where the offences were committed.

Mr Garzon has also initiated other high-profile cases. In 2003 he compiled a 692-page indictment which called for the arrest of 35 men, including Osama Bin Laden, for their alleged membership of a terrorist group. That number was later increased to 41.

Eighteen were found guilty of belonging to an al-Qaeda cell and sentenced to long prison terms.




Baltasar Garzón's own 'legal' troubles...

April 25, 2010

Charismatic judge who pursued Spain's fascist assassins finds himself on trial

The crowd gathered outside Madrid's national court was loud and angry. "The world has been turned upside down," they cried. "The fascists are judging the judge!" Some carried photographs of long-dead relatives, killed by rightwing death squads in Spain's brutal civil war in the 1930s. Others bore placards bearing the name of the hero they wanted to save, the controversial "superjudge" Baltasar Garzón.

The irony of that will be lost on few. The only man to have been punished because of Franco's crimes will be Judge Garzón himself. "If that happens, the reaction will be furious," warns one of the demonstrators outside the National Court, who meet there every day at 8pm. "The assassins will have won."




May 11, 2010

Judge Baltasar Garzón seeks leave of absence from Spanish court

The high-profile judge who indicted Augusto Pinochet and Osama bin Laden is seeking to take a leave of absence as he awaits trial on charges of abuse of authority, a court official said today.

Judge Baltasar Garzón has asked for a seven-month assignment as an adviser at the international criminal court in The Hague, said the official at the National Court, where Garzón works.

Garzón is not resigning, and his departure will not affect the case against him in Spain for having launched a probe of Spanish civil war atrocities that were covered by an amnesty, the official said, on condition of anonymity in line with court policy.

Garzón received a job offer at the international criminal court from Luis Moreno Ocampo, an Argentine who is chief prosecutor at the court, the official said.



Judge Baltasar Garzón suspended over Franco investigation

May 14, 2010

The stellar career of the crusading Spanish judge Baltasar Garzón may have come to an abrupt end today after he was suspended from his post as an investigating magistrate at Madrid's national court.

The higher council of judicial power, which oversees Spain's judges, temporarily suspended Garzón while the supreme court tries him on charges of distorting the law by opening an investigation into crimes against humanity carried out by the Franco regime.

"It will come into effect as soon as he is told," the council's spokeswoman, Gabriela Bravo, said this morning.

Judges and co-workers later lined up outside the national court to say goodbye to the man whose investigations into Latin American dictators, including Augusto Pinochet of Chile, had turned the court into a key player in global human rights






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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks :)
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. Maybe if we didn't torture and fail to prosecute same.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Maybe
sure sucks when someone seeking justice is an "irritant"
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. When someone considers seeking justice as an "irritant"
then you know there ain't no justice.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I agree
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molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
73. Democracy Now had the brother of the journalist who was murdered
in Iraq on their show. They had a rather large segment on how the US intervened in the Spanish justice system.

It helped me to understand why no prominent republicans go to jail in the US. You can see that episode, yesterday , I think, online. Noam Chomsky was on the other day.

Think about it. Tom DeLay out on appeal for years. Don Seigleman shackled in the court room ...convicted on trumpted up charges. He dared to question Alabama's election system...where he lost at 1 AM. Had been ahead in the polls and vote until the bewitching hour.

Scooter Libby..Cheney ..bush ...Ensign..Mark Foley...the list is long and getting longer.

Then there is Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters. Are we fascist yet?
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oops...wrong place. hehe
Edited on Wed Dec-01-10 10:39 AM by Solly Mack
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. ...
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R n/t
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Forgot
Thanks :)
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm betting torture is rather irritating as well.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It just boggles the mind. The world knows the U.S. committed war crimes
and the world knows the U.S. isn't holding the Bush administration accountable....yet the U.S. is worried about its image ...in one of the Madrid cables the U.S. is 'concerned' about the negative things being said about America's torture program. The cables also speak of the U.S. being upset over remarks made abut the Iraq invasion.

And now we know the U.S. finds it irritating to have someone attempt to seek justice...

As if those seeking justice against war criminals are pesky little insects that need to be swatted away.

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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yep.... the world does know
and the USA plays it like they don't.

Close Gitmo which would have helped but its still there after two years power and 4 years of election promises
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. In one of the dispatches it talks about the need (for Spain) to work behind the scenes
of the high court - to get charges/cases dismissed against Rumsfeld & others...while still publicly defending and supporting the independence of the Spain's judiciary.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thanks
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. The Spanish have always been very proud of their Courts.
I'm loving Wikileaks right now. :hi:
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Any news on how the people of Spain are reacting to the Madrid cables?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I'll go fish a bit later but on Amy's show today
someone said people where aghast that their government would conspire against them with a foreign government.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thanks!! I'm fishing around now...mostly 'official' responses
the bonds will endure, we have a great relationship, deny, deny, deny sort of thing
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Notice the linguistic sleight of hand.
The pronouns. "We", in particular. The brother of the journalist slain at the Palestine used "we" to mean, Spanish citizens. When TPTB use it (or, their media lapdogs), "we" means their viewpoint, their wellbeing -- that "we" people are supposed to adopt as "our" priority. It's enough to give you vertigo.



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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yep
there's we...then there's 'we'
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Comment by the family (Couso's brother)
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/Prosecutors/deny/exerting/influence/over/High/Court/cases/involving/US/elpepueng/20101201elpeng_1/Ten


The family of Couso, a Telecinco cameraman killed by US forces in the battle for Baghdad, spoke yesterday of its shock at the revelation that the US Embassy lobbied the High Court to sweep the case under the carpet. "It's like something from a banana republic," Javier Couso, the journalist's brother, told El PAÍS of the accusation that there was collusion between Attorney General Cándido Conde-Pumpido and Aguirre to shelve the case. "It is an affront to national sovereignty that a government could connive to cover up crimes against a Spanish citizen."

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Their position is very similar to the Tillmans'.
The Pentagon knew right away that our forces had shelled that hotel. And then they put the family through a long, painful song and dance.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. KNFR
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks
:)
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. yea, that living within the law shit really sucks
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Just a tad bit inconvenient
and - obviously - irritating


Well, unless it's the little people breaking the law
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. But for some reason, the U.S. couldn't do this?


Mr Garzon has also initiated other high-profile cases. In 2003 he compiled a 692-page indictment which called for the arrest of 35 men, including Osama Bin Laden, for their alleged membership of a terrorist group. That number was later increased to 41.

Eighteen were found guilty of belonging to an al-Qaeda cell and sentenced to long prison terms.



Thanks for the thread, Solly Mack
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Sure our government could have.....but it didn't want to
Bush/Cheney wanted war...and to advance the unitary executive....and to fill the wallets of their cronies...and...and...and

You're welcome, Uncle Joe
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R
Thanks for putting this together
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #31
50. Thanks, leftstreet
You're welcome
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. k&r
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
49. Hey Swamp
Thanks! :)
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
33. Thanks for the reminders.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #33
48. I thought it needed the context :)
lol

Thanks, mmonk :)
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
34. K & R
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. Thank you, HCE SuiGeneris
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
35. Doncha love Imperial behavior?
This is what this is, at the simplest form. Empires are very predictable.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. Yep...almost as much as it loves me. ;)
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
36. Reactions reported by El Pais (Google translation)
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Expertos/penales/creen/fiscalia/vulnero/ley/tratos/EE/UU/elpepuesp/20101202elpepunac_1/Tes&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgUYOO4wiaoMZWBNzM6AmAjblHc9Q

""Obscenity," according to Leopoldo Torres, one of the lawyers of the relatives of Couso case. "A serious violation of national sovereignty and independence of the judiciary", according to the Commonwealth Lawyers Association (ALA), which defines " patronage and serfdom"

"Even his colleagues in the Progressive Union of Prosecutors (UPF) issued a statement yesterday that claims to Conde-Pumpido "the most detailed explanation" of such contacts "to dispel any hint of doubt." Para la UPF, la fiscalía debe guiarse "exclusivamente por la legalidad y el derecho, y no por intereses, razones o influjos de una supuesta razón de Estado". For the UPF, the prosecution should be guided "solely by the law and the law, and no interest, reasons or influences of an alleged reason of state.""

Link to the front page:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elpais.com%2Fglobal%2F
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #36
45. Thank you, Luminous Animal!
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. K&R. nt
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. Thanks, OC
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
38. knr n/t
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Thanks, SSA
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #43
75. Thank you :) n/t
Edited on Fri Dec-03-10 12:13 AM by slipslidingaway
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
39. Excellent post, Solly Mack, thank you. I had no idea that they
had gone after the judge. And that was in May, 2010! Is it possible that this was initiated by those trying to save the U.S. torturers from prosecution?

Now we know that a huge effort was made by the U.S. to stop the prosecutions of Bush war criminals, a bi-partisan effort by President Obama and Republicans.

I hope these latest revelations will help end the smearing of this judge. In Chile and Argentina I believe, war criminals are being prosecuted, even though it took 30 years to get to this point.

They can't escape forever. It's becoming more and more difficult to protect them and people do not forget the slaughter of innocents nor the torture of human beings. Did they really believe that would happen?
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. I think it played into it, yes
I think a way was sought to get him out of the way ...and one was found and it benefited many people...to include America.

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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
Edited on Thu Dec-02-10 01:12 AM by DeSwiss
I'm so disgusted I've run out of words.....
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Thank you, DeSwiss
Yeah :(
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
51. K& R. Is this as huge as I think it is?...
So the Obama administration found it to be "an irritant" that Spain wanted to indict USG officials for their involvment in torture?

How can Pres. Obama justify this?

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. It doesn't look good (understatement) but I don't think anything will come of it
in America...the Spanish might hold their government accountable for it.

Spain's court might re-double their efforts (to push prosecutions) to avoid looking compromised. That would be a good thing.

But Spain's lawmakers passed laws limiting universal jurisdiction in the midst of all of this. (things that make you go hmmm)

In a country that actually practices what it preaches this would be huge. Course, in a country that practices what it preaches Congress would have gone after Bush for his crimes...or Bush would be under prosecution now for his crimes.


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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Yeah, I don't expect anything to come of it, either. But there it is,
in black and white, so to speak. Obama is assertively trying to sweep the torture thing under the rug. I don't know how anyone could find a positive way to spin this for him.

I voted for Obama. I know, now, that I pegged him correctly from the very beginning, but I got onboard anyway; attended a rally, did some GOTV on election day. But I won't do it again.

If Palin gets elected then we will know without a doubt that the president (no matter who that is) is simply a cipher. The same shadow government wil be in charge either way.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. The funny thing is...and not funny ha-ha...the people that are now just so blasé
about this will be some of the same ones asking "How could this happen again?" when we get another Bush-league president who decides torture is a good thing. They'll be outraged then. They'll demand prosecutions then. Well, just until the next Bush-league president is out of office, that is.

I am unable to nurture an 'Oh well' attitude about war crimes. It doesn't make anyone worldly (though some certainly think it does) to say there won't be prosecutions - there's a lot of anger and disgust behind my saying it.

People that just accept this as business as usual are already defeated as humans. But that's just my opinion...
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
52. Amazing isn't it - the imperialists are beyond arrogant
Why do they believe US law supersedes law in other countries.
The fascists of the world are rising again.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Spain's government certainly appears to have gone along with the US
We'll see what their courts do.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
57. More Madrid cables
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. It appears to me that we have no problem with the Spanish Courts when they pursue our enemies.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. It does seem that way doesn't it?
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
58. K&R!
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. Thank you,blackspade
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
62. K&R.. Sadly, Spain is in financial trouble and US/GB has power over
how things go. I would hope these cables would have a huge impact here and with the Spanish people. But, given the financial troubles the IMF...and other shadows will probably have much influence over attempts to bring justice. The Global Meltdown caused by the loosening of regulation here with our banks and internationally has repercussions. Those in power now will seek to hold the power and money/financing of debt will probably over rule the courts and voices for justice for awhile longer.

Still, one hope that these revelations will bring change someday...even if it takes decades.

Thanks for pulling that all together Solly Mack.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. Thanks, KoKo
I've been reading newspapers from Spain and many are angry over this...

Someday...maybe.

You're welcome!
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
63. Has there been any analysis of why Obama sent Gregg
and Martinez to do this?
Why Republicans and why them?

K&R to you for putting the events in context, particularly in regards to what happened to the judge.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. I haven't seen it if it exist. Maybe someone knows...
I've been looking for reactions/responses but haven't found one that talked about why the GOP and why those particular GOP...or even why the US would want to stop Spain from honoring its treaty obligations. Not officially, that is
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Thanks Solly
I've been looking too, but not finding much.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
67. kick
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Thanks Blue!
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
69. Missed the rec window, Kick!
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Thanks!
Good to see you
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Thanks!
:hi:

Back from a much needed hiatus.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
70. K&R
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Thank you
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